Probably the local border patrol - so whoever's in charge at that facility. I doubt there's much oversight going upwards. I would imagine the presidency, for example, will want to be as separated...
Probably the local border patrol - so whoever's in charge at that facility. I doubt there's much oversight going upwards. I would imagine the presidency, for example, will want to be as separated from this as possible in case it gets reported on so that they can claim "we had no idea this was happening" and then fire a bunch of people and keep the practice going.
As harsh as I may seem, I just don't know that I can feel bad for people who attempt to illegally enter another country, expecting that country to bow down to their wants... WHEN those same people...
As harsh as I may seem, I just don't know that I can feel bad for people who attempt to illegally enter another country, expecting that country to bow down to their wants... WHEN those same people didn't fight for the same expectations in their own country.
The parents knowingly dragged their kids away from family and home, not as we are told in the hope of a better life. They did it EXPECTING a better life to be given them.
What I also don't get is people defending this by saying "if you don't like it, leave America". That makes zero sense. Why would I leave MY country because people illegally come here? Why should I not fight for my country against people who want to make it similar to a country they didn't want to fight to make better?
I do feel some for the kids. But truth be told, I can't feel for everyone. I just don't have that much emotional capacity. I have a wife on medical disability, a 24 year old daughter who after 11 years of GI surgeries had her pancreas removed and is also on disability, a 28 year old son who is on his own but is struggling with expecting too much from himself, my mom is 76 and not in good health, dad and grandparents have passed, American legal citizens who don't have enough food, money, shelter, medical care, employment, etc.
Why is it now horrible for me to be more concerned about legal citizens of my country than someone who as their first act coming here intentionally BREAKS THE LAW?
Um... the people coming here aren't expecting the US to "bow down to their wants." They expect the US to not commit human rights violations by taking away their kids, neglecting them, and losing...
As harsh as I may seem, I just don't know that I can feel bad for people who attempt to illegally enter another country, expecting that country to bow down to their wants... WHEN those same people didn't fight for the same expectations in their own country.
Um... the people coming here aren't expecting the US to "bow down to their wants." They expect the US to not commit human rights violations by taking away their kids, neglecting them, and losing track of them. They don't want free stuff! They want to be free from the persecution they're running from. They want their kids to be free from a dangerous environment, not for their kids to get further traumatized by our government.
Jesus Christ. I'm sorry your family is in a rough situation, but these people are fleeing violence on a massive scale and we're perpetuating their trauma and causing permanent harm to children. Do you understand what the stress of separation from a parent (and all other relatives known to them) does to a young child? The physical and mental health effects they will live with for possibly the rest of their lives because this administration decided that separating families was a good way to discourage them from coming here?
And guess what-- those of us who can bring ourselves to care about this also care about people who were lucky enough to be born here or come here legally. I am upset about the recent changes to the ACA. I despair about the state of disability benefits in this country and attempts to weaken the ADA. I am angry about housing being flat-out unaffordable for many people working minimum wage jobs.
Why is it now horrible for me to be more concerned about legal citizens of my country than someone who as their first act coming here intentionally BREAKS THE LAW?
Because when people are found guilty of crimes we don't put their children in cages with bad food, poor sanitation, and lack of physical comfort. We don't discourage citizens and legal residents from committing misdemeanors by telling them, "if you commit this crime, your child will be taken away from all they know and you might never see them again." Because someone breaking the law doesn't justify human rights violations.
It's worse than you think. Found guilty? These people haven't even had a trial. We're punishing children for the alleged crimes of parents who haven't received the due process of law yet, and...
It's worse than you think.
Because when people are found guilty of crimes we don't put their children in cages with bad food, poor sanitation, and lack of physical comfort.
Found guilty? These people haven't even had a trial. We're punishing children for the alleged crimes of parents who haven't received the due process of law yet, and probably won't for at least a year.
Asylum Seeking is lawful, and unlawfully crossing the border is a misdemeanor. Like, jaywalking. Or collecting rainwater in some jurisdictions. The systematic child separation began when AG Jeff...
Asylum Seeking is lawful, and unlawfully crossing the border is a misdemeanor. Like, jaywalking. Or collecting rainwater in some jurisdictions.
The systematic child separation began when AG Jeff Sessions imposed his zero-tolerance policy in May. There is no immigrant crisis, at least, other than the one the Trump Administration created. This didn't have to happen, but the Trump Administration went out of their way to do this. They saw it as a deterrent, for the crisis that.. doesn't exist. Yet, President Trump thinks these migrants are "infesting our country." Nice dehumanization there, Mr. President.
So as a solution to the "infestation", the United States made it policy to commit crimes against humanity, by definition, and an act of genocide, by definition.
Article 7 of the treaty stated that:
For the purpose of this Statute, "crime against humanity" means any of the following acts when committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population, with knowledge of the attack:
(a) Murder;
(b) Extermination;
(c) Enslavement;
(d) Deportation or forcible transfer of population;
(e) Imprisonment or other severe deprivation of physical liberty in violation of fundamental rules of international law;
(f) Torture;
(g) Rape, sexual slavery, enforced prostitution, forced pregnancy, enforced sterilization, or any other form of sexual violence of comparable gravity;
(h) Persecution against any identifiable group or collectivity on political, racial, national, ethnic, cultural, religious, gender as defined in paragraph 3, or other grounds that are universally recognized as impermissible under international law, in connection with any act referred to in this paragraph or any crime within the jurisdiction of the Court;
(i) Enforced disappearance of persons;
(j) The crime of apartheid;
(k) Other inhumane acts of a similar character intentionally causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or to mental or physical health;
Article 1
For the purposes of this Convention, the term "torture" means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.
They strapped me down all the way, from your feet all the way to your chest, you couldn't really move ... They have total control over you. They also put a bag over your head. It has little holes; you can see through it. But you feel suffocated with the bag on
So, this is actually a form of torture and (according to one scholar) a violation of international law. It’s called Hooding.
"I am suffering a lot being in the Yolo Juvenile Detention Center. It is a jail and I sleep in a locked, small jail cell. I can't leave here and have no freedom at all. We only get one hour of time outside each day. I have to live in a small cell with concrete walls."
"I took nine pills in the morning and seven in the evening."
The filings allege that these drugs, which can have serious and permanent side effects, were prescribed often and without parental consent and that many of them weren't approved by the Food and Drug Administration for use by children.
staff throw another youth to the ground, pry his mouth open and force him to take the medicine
"They made us act violently so then we had to be given shots. The staff would call us names like 'sons of a whore"
"I was forced to wear handcuffs on my wrists and shackles on my feet for approximately 10 days in a row."
"They took my clothes away about 8 times"
Impeachment is REQUIRED by treaty.
Article 4
Each State Party shall ensure that all acts of torture are offences under its criminal law. The same shall apply to an attempt to commit torture and to an act by any person which constitutes complicity or participation in torture. 2. Each State Party shall make these offences punishable by appropriate penalties which take into account their grave nature.
The initial strategy of separating children from their families is literally spelled out in the Genocide Convention as being an act of genocide:
..any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group; (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
Combine that with Trumps statements that compare these families to animals, murderers, and rapists and it is a hard argument to make that he isn't doing this in part to harm an ethnic community.
Are you talking about countries we repeatedly fucked over as part of the War on (Some) Drugs or to make the Americas safe for US corporations? The US has a long and ignoble history of...
WHEN those same people didn't fight for the same expectations in their own country.
Are you talking about countries we repeatedly fucked over as part of the War on (Some) Drugs or to make the Americas safe for US corporations? The US has a long and ignoble history of interventions in Latin America that benefit the US and complicit governments at the expense of the people of Latin America.
Those immigrants are chickens coming home to roost.
The parents knowingly dragged their kids away from family and home, not as we are told in the hope of a better life. They did it EXPECTING a better life to be given them.
Who told you this? Probably not the immigrants themselves.
What I also don't get is people defending this by saying "if you don't like it, leave America".
That's funny. I would expect to hear "love it or leave it" from right-wingers who have absolutely no issue with ICE putting asylum-seekers' children in concentration camps.
American legal citizens who don't have enough food, money, shelter, medical care, employment, etc.
You think you and yours deserve more because you and your family were born here? I've got news for you: I was born here, too, and neither of us earned our citizenship. It was given to us as a birthright -- and don't bring up any military service you might have done. This is real life, not Starship Troopers, and you were a citizen before you ever even thought of enlisting.
The immigrants who make it through all of the bullshit people like you demand and finally take the oath of citizenship are better Americans than you and I. They have to be, because they have to earn citizenship.
Why is it now horrible for me to be more concerned about legal citizens of my country than someone who as their first act coming here intentionally BREAKS THE LAW?
They're here requesting asylum. They are following the law. It's not like they tried to sneak through the border. They came right up, surrendered themselves, and asked for help.
For you to say that family separation is OK because your own family doesn't exactly have it easy either says a lot about what sort of human being you are -- and it isn't pretty.
As a naturalized citizen I wouldn't really consider myself a better American just because my family and I went through a 15-year process to become citizens and took an oath. But it is pretty...
The immigrants who make it through all of the bullshit people like you demand and finally take the oath of citizenship are better Americans than you and I. They have to be, because they have to earn citizenship.
As a naturalized citizen I wouldn't really consider myself a better American just because my family and I went through a 15-year process to become citizens and took an oath. But it is pretty telling that many people I see arguing that undocumented immigrants didn't "earn" their right to be here... never had to do anything themselves except be born here.
Maybe not, but you still had to study US history and civics, and show that you had some understanding of how the system works and why it works that way. You had to pass a test that had more...
As a naturalized citizen I wouldn't really consider myself a better American just because my family and I went through a 15-year process to become citizens and took an oath.
Maybe not, but you still had to study US history and civics, and show that you had some understanding of how the system works and why it works that way. You had to pass a test that had more meaningful stakes than its effect on your grade point average.
But it is pretty telling that many people I see arguing that undocumented immigrants didn't "earn" their right to be here... never had to do anything themselves except be born here.
MOST are not requesting asylum. That's a legal process. It's also a term being misused, like Military Style Weapon. Seeking asylum has specific steps one must go through or they are rejected. Get...
MOST are not requesting asylum. That's a legal process. It's also a term being misused, like Military Style Weapon. Seeking asylum has specific steps one must go through or they are rejected.
Get over the war on drugs and "Those immigrants are chickens coming home to roost." is total BS and you know it.
Notice I never stated family separation is OK and you have no clue about what my family has been through.
I do know that the parents knowingly broke US law coming here and they willing took the chance to be detained and have their kids detained. They expected something not granted to citizens of the country they were sneaking into. US Citizen kids ARE separated from their parents by the government. Happens every day.
I'm OK giving the kids back to the parents. So is the US government. You all are acting like that's not expected to happen. It can happen MUCH sooner too. You know how and so do the parents. But the parents don't want to go back to their legal country and go through the legal process to immigrate here. So everyone sits in limbo till BOTH the US and originating country process their transfers.
Some parents are being deported without their children. They sign forms to leave, thinking that will get their kids back, but they are sent back without them.
It can happen MUCH sooner too. You know how and so do the parents. But the parents don't want to go back to their legal country and go through the legal process to immigrate here. So everyone sits in limbo till BOTH the US and originating country process their transfers.
Children are suffering under inhumane conditions. In the face of this injustice, your arguments are irrelevant.
MOST are not requesting asylum. That's a legal process. It's also a term being misused, like Military Style Weapon. Seeking asylum has specific steps one must go through or they are rejected.
Children are suffering under inhumane conditions. In the face of this injustice, your arguments are irrelevant.
However you feel about this issue, seperating children from families and subjecting them to the conditions described in this article is inhumane and dehumanizing. This simply isn't acceptable.
However you feel about this issue, seperating children from families and subjecting them to the conditions described in this article is inhumane and dehumanizing.
The place was freezing …The girls placed their mats in the floor very close to one another, since there was not enough space to fit them more comfortably. Girls as young as 3 years old were detained in this place and without their mothers,” Poletti wrote. She said one girl, 14, referred to as “G,” “felt hungry most of the time she was there because the food they provided her wasn’t good in quality or quantity.” “G” couldn’t sleep through the night, Poletti added.
Kids get separated from families all the time and not just by governments. Heck, why isn't everyone pissed off at the "migrant" parents who are causing their kids to be separated by illegally...
Kids get separated from families all the time and not just by governments. Heck, why isn't everyone pissed off at the "migrant" parents who are causing their kids to be separated by illegally entering another country?
Don't get me wrong, some of the conditions are horrible. We can fix those, but that doesn't fix the root of the problem. Only their parents can do that.
This is beyond fucked up.
Probably the local border patrol - so whoever's in charge at that facility. I doubt there's much oversight going upwards. I would imagine the presidency, for example, will want to be as separated from this as possible in case it gets reported on so that they can claim "we had no idea this was happening" and then fire a bunch of people and keep the practice going.
Those officers are sadists. That's who you hire for work like this. So, so dark and sad.
I found this article from r/TrueReddit and I thought it would be important for others to read. Thanks to u/Momojo for the original posting here.
There are some thing you never use as pawns.
Children are one of those things.
As harsh as I may seem, I just don't know that I can feel bad for people who attempt to illegally enter another country, expecting that country to bow down to their wants... WHEN those same people didn't fight for the same expectations in their own country.
The parents knowingly dragged their kids away from family and home, not as we are told in the hope of a better life. They did it EXPECTING a better life to be given them.
What I also don't get is people defending this by saying "if you don't like it, leave America". That makes zero sense. Why would I leave MY country because people illegally come here? Why should I not fight for my country against people who want to make it similar to a country they didn't want to fight to make better?
I do feel some for the kids. But truth be told, I can't feel for everyone. I just don't have that much emotional capacity. I have a wife on medical disability, a 24 year old daughter who after 11 years of GI surgeries had her pancreas removed and is also on disability, a 28 year old son who is on his own but is struggling with expecting too much from himself, my mom is 76 and not in good health, dad and grandparents have passed, American legal citizens who don't have enough food, money, shelter, medical care, employment, etc.
Why is it now horrible for me to be more concerned about legal citizens of my country than someone who as their first act coming here intentionally BREAKS THE LAW?
Um... the people coming here aren't expecting the US to "bow down to their wants." They expect the US to not commit human rights violations by taking away their kids, neglecting them, and losing track of them. They don't want free stuff! They want to be free from the persecution they're running from. They want their kids to be free from a dangerous environment, not for their kids to get further traumatized by our government.
Jesus Christ. I'm sorry your family is in a rough situation, but these people are fleeing violence on a massive scale and we're perpetuating their trauma and causing permanent harm to children. Do you understand what the stress of separation from a parent (and all other relatives known to them) does to a young child? The physical and mental health effects they will live with for possibly the rest of their lives because this administration decided that separating families was a good way to discourage them from coming here?
And guess what-- those of us who can bring ourselves to care about this also care about people who were lucky enough to be born here or come here legally. I am upset about the recent changes to the ACA. I despair about the state of disability benefits in this country and attempts to weaken the ADA. I am angry about housing being flat-out unaffordable for many people working minimum wage jobs.
Because when people are found guilty of crimes we don't put their children in cages with bad food, poor sanitation, and lack of physical comfort. We don't discourage citizens and legal residents from committing misdemeanors by telling them, "if you commit this crime, your child will be taken away from all they know and you might never see them again." Because someone breaking the law doesn't justify human rights violations.
It's worse than you think.
Found guilty? These people haven't even had a trial. We're punishing children for the alleged crimes of parents who haven't received the due process of law yet, and probably won't for at least a year.
Asylum Seeking is lawful, and unlawfully crossing the border is a misdemeanor. Like, jaywalking. Or collecting rainwater in some jurisdictions.
The systematic child separation began when AG Jeff Sessions imposed his zero-tolerance policy in May. There is no immigrant crisis, at least, other than the one the Trump Administration created. This didn't have to happen, but the Trump Administration went out of their way to do this. They saw it as a deterrent, for the crisis that.. doesn't exist. Yet, President Trump thinks these migrants are "infesting our country." Nice dehumanization there, Mr. President.
So as a solution to the "infestation", the United States made it policy to commit crimes against humanity, by definition, and an act of genocide, by definition.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimes_against_humanity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_against_Torture
If forcibly, and in many cases permanently, separating children from their parents isn't torture enough we're doing this fun thing as well.
Migrant children say they've been forcibly drugged, handcuffed, and abused in US government detention
So, this is actually a form of torture and (according to one scholar) a violation of international law. It’s called Hooding.
Impeachment is REQUIRED by treaty.
The initial strategy of separating children from their families is literally spelled out in the Genocide Convention as being an act of genocide:
Combine that with Trumps statements that compare these families to animals, murderers, and rapists and it is a hard argument to make that he isn't doing this in part to harm an ethnic community.
Thus, I think feeling bad is warranted.
Are you talking about countries we repeatedly fucked over as part of the War on (Some) Drugs or to make the Americas safe for US corporations? The US has a long and ignoble history of interventions in Latin America that benefit the US and complicit governments at the expense of the people of Latin America.
Those immigrants are chickens coming home to roost.
Who told you this? Probably not the immigrants themselves.
That's funny. I would expect to hear "love it or leave it" from right-wingers who have absolutely no issue with ICE putting asylum-seekers' children in concentration camps.
You think you and yours deserve more because you and your family were born here? I've got news for you: I was born here, too, and neither of us earned our citizenship. It was given to us as a birthright -- and don't bring up any military service you might have done. This is real life, not Starship Troopers, and you were a citizen before you ever even thought of enlisting.
The immigrants who make it through all of the bullshit people like you demand and finally take the oath of citizenship are better Americans than you and I. They have to be, because they have to earn citizenship.
They're here requesting asylum. They are following the law. It's not like they tried to sneak through the border. They came right up, surrendered themselves, and asked for help.
For you to say that family separation is OK because your own family doesn't exactly have it easy either says a lot about what sort of human being you are -- and it isn't pretty.
As a naturalized citizen I wouldn't really consider myself a better American just because my family and I went through a 15-year process to become citizens and took an oath. But it is pretty telling that many people I see arguing that undocumented immigrants didn't "earn" their right to be here... never had to do anything themselves except be born here.
Maybe not, but you still had to study US history and civics, and show that you had some understanding of how the system works and why it works that way. You had to pass a test that had more meaningful stakes than its effect on your grade point average.
No kidding.
MOST are not requesting asylum. That's a legal process. It's also a term being misused, like Military Style Weapon. Seeking asylum has specific steps one must go through or they are rejected.
Get over the war on drugs and "Those immigrants are chickens coming home to roost." is total BS and you know it.
Notice I never stated family separation is OK and you have no clue about what my family has been through.
I do know that the parents knowingly broke US law coming here and they willing took the chance to be detained and have their kids detained. They expected something not granted to citizens of the country they were sneaking into. US Citizen kids ARE separated from their parents by the government. Happens every day.
I'm OK giving the kids back to the parents. So is the US government. You all are acting like that's not expected to happen. It can happen MUCH sooner too. You know how and so do the parents. But the parents don't want to go back to their legal country and go through the legal process to immigrate here. So everyone sits in limbo till BOTH the US and originating country process their transfers.
Some parents are being deported without their children. They sign forms to leave, thinking that will get their kids back, but they are sent back without them.
Children are suffering under inhumane conditions. In the face of this injustice, your arguments are irrelevant.
separate issue. That would not be an issue if the parents hadn't dragged them away from their home to illegally enter another country.
Trust me. You already made that abundantly clear.
However you feel about this issue, seperating children from families and subjecting them to the conditions described in this article is inhumane and dehumanizing.
This simply isn't acceptable.
Kids get separated from families all the time and not just by governments. Heck, why isn't everyone pissed off at the "migrant" parents who are causing their kids to be separated by illegally entering another country?
Don't get me wrong, some of the conditions are horrible. We can fix those, but that doesn't fix the root of the problem. Only their parents can do that.