12 votes

Court records show duck boat in Missouri disaster was designed by entrepreneur with no engineering training

12 comments

  1. [8]
    spit-evil-olive-tips
    Link
    As an engineer this sort of thing makes my blood boil:

    As an engineer this sort of thing makes my blood boil:

    The designer completed only two years of college and had no background, training or certification in mechanics when he came up with the design for “stretch” duck boats more than two decades ago, according to a lawsuit filed over a roadway disaster in Seattle involving a similar duck boat in 2015.

    “Mainly he learned what to do through speaking with … a high school football coach who previously co-owned the business,” the lawsuit said in one filing, citing depositions with McDowell.

    McDowell “self-educated by going to auto parts stores and talking to different people,” including “a transmission person, as well as the maintenance people at the local Penske Truck group and the U-Haul down the street,” the filing said.

    However, McDowell “did not consult with any engineers,” and the company did not consult with other manufacturers before building the “stretch ducks,” according to the filing.

    6 votes
    1. [2]
      39hp
      Link Parent
      I’m wondering how predictable was this tragedy? What was involved in the inspection? Was it inspected as a car, boat, amphibious vehicle?

      I’m wondering how predictable was this tragedy?

      U.S. Coast Guard spokesman Chad Saylor confirmed that the Missouri duck boat was a “stretch duck.” He said the boat was last inspected on Nov. 29, 2017, and was found “fit for route and service.”

      Before last year’s acquisition, a vehicle consultant hired by Ripley Entertainment, Steven Paul, had warned the new owner that the design of the duck boats “would have not passed” government road inspections.

      What was involved in the inspection? Was it inspected as a car, boat, amphibious vehicle?

      5 votes
      1. insomnic
        Link Parent
        These particular duck boats have been running for 30 some years with thousands of passengers a year without any real incident. Branson is a pretty popular vacation destination for Missourians and...

        These particular duck boats have been running for 30 some years with thousands of passengers a year without any real incident. Branson is a pretty popular vacation destination for Missourians and those duck boats are a common attraction there.

    2. [5]
      pseudolobster
      Link Parent
      As a non-engineer who means no disrespect to your profession, I think non-engineers can produce perfectly viable products. On the other hand, only engineers can optimize it down to the least...

      As a non-engineer who means no disrespect to your profession, I think non-engineers can produce perfectly viable products. On the other hand, only engineers can optimize it down to the least material necessary to meet spec. I can build you a bridge, anyone can. It'll be made of a solid chunk of 50ft thick stainless steel. The common saying is to call this "over-engineered" but it's really the complete opposite of that.

      This guy's main problem isn't that he isn't an engineer, it's that he's an idiot and there seems like there wasn't the proper regulatory framework in place to tell him that he's an idiot.

      1 vote
      1. [4]
        spit-evil-olive-tips
        Link Parent
        You seem to only be considering functional requirements, not non-functional ones. I give you a river to bridge. You slap your gigantic hunk of steel on it, drive a truck across as a test, and call...

        I can build you a bridge, anyone can. It'll be made of a solid chunk of 50ft thick stainless steel.

        You seem to only be considering functional requirements, not non-functional ones.

        I give you a river to bridge. You slap your gigantic hunk of steel on it, drive a truck across as a test, and call it good.

        A month later a rainstorm slightly erodes one or both of the banks. Now your roadway is tilted at an angle. Maybe it's safe to drive on with that tilt, maybe it's not. A car might make it across just fine, but a tractor-trailer with a crosswind might not.

        Is your road surface also stainless steel, or do you want to put asphalt on top of it for better traction? Have fun driving on that bridge in freezing rain if you plan to leave the road surface bare. If you pave over it, how do you plan to bond the asphalt to the stainless steel?

        Using a bridge as an example is also easy, because it's mostly static (modulo the examples I gave of erosion affecting the foundation, and weather affecting the road surface). In this case we're talking about amphibious vehicles. It needs to both be safe when driving on public roads (the crash in Seattle was caused by a snapped axle and led to the duck boat crashing into oncoming traffic, killing 4) as well as seaworthy even in adverse weather conditions (the most recent sinking in Missouri).

        Engineers do far more than just take a design a layperson might think of and optimize it for cost.

        5 votes
        1. [3]
          pseudolobster
          Link Parent
          I have a habit of drinking too much, going on the internet, and posting things I later come to regret. This is one such post. On some other site I'd probably just delete my post. Here on the other...

          I have a habit of drinking too much, going on the internet, and posting things I later come to regret.

          This is one such post. On some other site I'd probably just delete my post. Here on the other hand, I'd like to apologize for my behavior.

          I sorta started off wanting to riff on the idea that the term "over-engineered" means the opposite of what people normally think it does, but I ended up making myself sound like an idiot.

          Thanks for your well thought-out reply to my drunken ramblings. It's time I make a serious effort to stop doing this.

          2 votes
          1. spit-evil-olive-tips
            Link Parent
            I've done stupid shit while drinking too, both online and off. I appreciate and accept your apology.

            I've done stupid shit while drinking too, both online and off. I appreciate and accept your apology.

            1 vote
          2. EightRoundsRapid
            Link Parent
            Hahahaha. I've lost track of the number of times my intoxicated ramblings came back to bite me on the backside.

            Hahahaha. I've lost track of the number of times my intoxicated ramblings came back to bite me on the backside.

  2. [2]
    Diet_Coke
    Link
    At least we can all breathe a sigh of relief that this intrepid entrepeneur, this Hank Rearden made flesh, did not have to be held back by the red tape of statist government regulators.

    At least we can all breathe a sigh of relief that this intrepid entrepeneur, this Hank Rearden made flesh, did not have to be held back by the red tape of statist government regulators.

    5 votes
    1. StellarTabi
      Link Parent
      I think we can all agree the free market solved this issue.

      I think we can all agree the free market solved this issue.

      2 votes
  3. [2]
    pseudolobster
    Link
    How is this allowed? I thought vehicles that contain humans are typically subject to all sorts of safety checks and regulations etc? Where I live, I've looked into trying to register a customized...

    How is this allowed? I thought vehicles that contain humans are typically subject to all sorts of safety checks and regulations etc? Where I live, I've looked into trying to register a customized electric motorcycle, and basically been told there's no way they can issue it registration without appropriate safety checks, which are prohibitively expensive for a single vehicle. I've also heard from friends having issues with uncertified car trailers, where they'd be pulled over and fined huge amounts for pulling trailers that don't meet safety regulations.

    It strikes me as absurd that a company can be selling such a death trap in the first place with no oversight. Engineer or not, I'm surprised this was allowed to be sold and operated.

    4 votes
    1. insomnic
      Link Parent
      Well... something to consider is the fact that they are inspected, but I don't know how rigorously. This particular duck boat operation had been operating for something like 30 years with...

      Well... something to consider is the fact that they are inspected, but I don't know how rigorously. This particular duck boat operation had been operating for something like 30 years with thousands of passengers a year without an issue. The duck boat right ahead of the one that capsized made it across without any trouble just moments before... it was a freak thing really. Still tragic though.

      Compared to other amusement rides - duck boats have a pretty good record overall I think...

      As a non-native Missourian myself I have a bunch of mixed emotions about the reaction from some people about this accident - specifically MO legislation choices based on what is or isn't requiring of additional regulation for safety - but those wouldn't really be well presented in this particular topic. :)