49 votes

Paul Manafort found guilty on eight counts

32 comments

  1. [30]
    CALICO Link

    Former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort has been found guilty on eight counts.
    Judge T.S. Ellis has declared a mistrial on 10 counts in the case.

    This story is breaking and will be updated.

    12 votes
    1. [3]
      demifiend Link Parent
      I wonder if the prosecution will try to get a retrial for those 10 counts, or settle for the 8 counts of which the jury found Manafort guilty. Can the prosecution even get a retrial, given the...

      I wonder if the prosecution will try to get a retrial for those 10 counts, or settle for the 8 counts of which the jury found Manafort guilty. Can the prosecution even get a retrial, given the double jeopardy clause of the Fifth Amendment? Does it even matter when a second trial on other charges is pending?

      9 votes
      1. [2]
        spit-evil-olive-tips Link Parent
        IANAL, but according to this a mistrial does mean a new trial, or at least the opportunity of one. I believe double jeopardy would only apply if he was found not guilty.

        Can the prosecution even get a retrial, given the double jeopardy clause of the Fifth Amendment?

        IANAL, but according to this a mistrial does mean a new trial, or at least the opportunity of one. I believe double jeopardy would only apply if he was found not guilty.

        11 votes
        1. demifiend Link Parent
          Thanks for the reference.

          Thanks for the reference.

          4 votes
    2. [26]
      EscReality Link Parent
      If the first case Mueller brings to court goes this well it will be interesting to see how the rest of the investigation goes. I assume this is just the tip of the iceberg.

      in the first case brought to trial by special counsel Robert Mueller as part of the investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 US election.

      If the first case Mueller brings to court goes this well it will be interesting to see how the rest of the investigation goes. I assume this is just the tip of the iceberg.

      8 votes
      1. [9]
        Gaywallet Link Parent
        Apparently Cohen is already flipping on Trump, so get your popcorn ready.

        Apparently Cohen is already flipping on Trump, so get your popcorn ready.

        11 votes
        1. [5]
          demifiend Link Parent
          I'd hope for impeachment, but Trump's removal from office for any reason would mean we'd be stuck with Mike Pence as President until at least 2020 (unless we can take him down along with Trump and...

          I'd hope for impeachment, but Trump's removal from office for any reason would mean we'd be stuck with Mike Pence as President until at least 2020 (unless we can take him down along with Trump and the rest of his cronies). I don't know about you, but the thought of "President Pence" has me doing research on converting my basement into a fallout shelter.

          17 votes
          1. [4]
            EscReality Link Parent
            Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton are the only US presidents that have faced impeachment; both were later acquitted by the Senate. If anyone is to become the first sitting US president to be...

            Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton are the only US presidents that have faced impeachment; both were later acquitted by the Senate. If anyone is to become the first sitting US president to be impeached and removed from office Trump would be a good candidate.

            The process would most likely take up the better part of 2019, so we would only have to deal with Pence for a year. It would be a really shitty year yeah, but I think it would be doable.

            Assuming he doesn't get caught in the fall.

            7 votes
            1. [3]
              demifiend Link Parent
              Whereas Richard Nixon saw the writing on the wall and got out before the Senate could finish the job of exposing him for the mendacious scumbag he was. Will Trump do the same, or insist on...

              Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton are the only US presidents that have faced impeachment; both were later acquitted by the Senate.

              Whereas Richard Nixon saw the writing on the wall and got out before the Senate could finish the job of exposing him for the mendacious scumbag he was. Will Trump do the same, or insist on clinging to power until the bitter end?

              8 votes
              1. [2]
                EscReality Link Parent
                The best con artists know when to cut their losses and move on to the next con.

                The best con artists know when to cut their losses and move on to the next con.

                1. demifiend Link Parent
                  What's Trump's next con, then? He's already turned the White House into a bad reality TV show.

                  What's Trump's next con, then? He's already turned the White House into a bad reality TV show.

                  4 votes
        2. [3]
          Parliament Link Parent
          I wonder if Cohen will eventually confirm the theory about Trump, not Elliott Broidy, having an affair with Shera Bechard and paying $1.6MM for her silence. There are many unanswered questions on...

          I wonder if Cohen will eventually confirm the theory about Trump, not Elliott Broidy, having an affair with Shera Bechard and paying $1.6MM for her silence. There are many unanswered questions on that topic.

          5 votes
          1. [2]
            spit-evil-olive-tips Link Parent
            That deal is particularly interesting because of speculation that the larger payout amount ($1.6 million compared to "only" $130k to Stormy Daniels) was because Shera Bechard was impregnated by...

            That deal is particularly interesting because of speculation that the larger payout amount ($1.6 million compared to "only" $130k to Stormy Daniels) was because Shera Bechard was impregnated by Trump and subsequently had an abortion.

            I'd be very curious to see what the Christian conservative movement would make of that, if true. Would it finally cause a drop in his support among that demographic, or would it just be the latest example of "I could shoot someone on 5th Avenue" being true?

            8 votes
            1. NoblePath Link Parent
              He'll just say he's repented and all will be forgiven. The politically active evangelicals have no integrity for the most part.

              He'll just say he's repented and all will be forgiven. The politically active evangelicals have no integrity for the most part.

              4 votes
      2. [16]
        Parliament Link Parent
        We're running out of non-Trump family members to bring legal action against.

        We're running out of non-Trump family members to bring legal action against.

        4 votes
        1. [15]
          demifiend Link Parent
          Hell, let's put Melania on trial and see if she throws hubby under a bus.

          Hell, let's put Melania on trial and see if she throws hubby under a bus.

          4 votes
          1. [14]
            arghdos Link Parent
            ... what are we, the French Revolution in here?

            ... what are we, the French Revolution in here?

            7 votes
            1. Parliament Link Parent
              Mueller actually used a similar tactic in the Enron case tbf. Got Andrew Fastow’s wife to flip and plead guilty.

              Mueller actually used a similar tactic in the Enron case tbf. Got Andrew Fastow’s wife to flip and plead guilty.

              8 votes
            2. [12]
              demifiend Link Parent
              I know you're probably being sarcastic, but I think we should have broken out the tumbrels and guillotines back in 2008, and OWS should have stood for "Overthrow Wall Street". I'm ready to sing La...

              I know you're probably being sarcastic, but I think we should have broken out the tumbrels and guillotines back in 2008, and OWS should have stood for "Overthrow Wall Street". I'm ready to sing La Marseillaise and I can't even speak French.

              5 votes
              1. [11]
                arghdos Link Parent
                Spoken as only someone truly ignorant of the French revolution could... enjoy your revolution until Madame la Guillotine is turned on you.

                Spoken as only someone truly ignorant of the French revolution could... enjoy your revolution until Madame la Guillotine is turned on you.

                4 votes
                1. [10]
                  demifiend Link Parent
                  What's wrong? You don't like that I'm angry about the way things are and choose to express my anger by referring to the French Revolution? Too bad.

                  Spoken as only someone truly ignorant of the French revolution could...

                  What's wrong? You don't like that I'm angry about the way things are and choose to express my anger by referring to the French Revolution? Too bad.

                  1 vote
                  1. [9]
                    arghdos Link Parent
                    Well, it seems I could write a long-winded post titled something like: to better express myself, but I'm tired this morning :P I get being upset about the status quo, but explicitly calling for a...

                    Well, it seems I could write a long-winded post titled something like:

                    To a select minority of less than ten people: please stop advocating ludicrous things without at least considering that there may be unintended consequences

                    to better express myself, but I'm tired this morning :P

                    I get being upset about the status quo, but explicitly calling for a revolution akin to one where up to 40,000 people were summarily executed without trial or representation doesn't exactly improve the situation, now does it?

                    4 votes
                    1. [6]
                      CALICO Link Parent
                      Not to advocate for a modern revolution, but for all the pain and suffering that resulted directly or indirectly from the French Revolution it was arguably the most important and transformative...

                      Not to advocate for a modern revolution, but for all the pain and suffering that resulted directly or indirectly from the French Revolution it was arguably the most important and transformative period in modern, western history. It shaped the whole world, and marked the end of Monarchy.

                      4 votes
                      1. [5]
                        arghdos Link Parent
                        And lead indisputably into Napolean trying to conquer Europe, and irrevocably changed the face of the continent / social structures, no argument here. My issue is not with the significance of the...

                        And lead indisputably into Napolean trying to conquer Europe, and irrevocably changed the face of the continent / social structures, no argument here. My issue is not with the significance of the event, or the large-scale social change that it created in France (and subsequently, Europe if we look how it formed a basis for 1848 and beyond), merely a blithe call to guillotines without addressing the whole "Oh yeah, we went on a massive, indiscriminate killing spree" aspect of it.

                        3 votes
                        1. [4]
                          CALICO Link Parent
                          I read into that comment as having a bit of hyperbole, but I empathize with the sentiment behind it. I think we're long overdue for a paradigm shift myself, and I'm terrified of it. I really hope...

                          I read into that comment as having a bit of hyperbole, but I empathize with the sentiment behind it.
                          I think we're long overdue for a paradigm shift myself, and I'm terrified of it. I really hope things can be changed without violence. I worry the time for that to be possible is past. Deep down, I think our social fabric has been stretched too much for that, and the day it tears is going to bring blood and ashes.
                          I dread for what the future holds.

                          4 votes
                          1. [3]
                            arghdos Link Parent
                            As much as I agree, the time for things to change without resorting to violence is certainly past once we start calling for jury-less trials & executions of our opponents, hence my vehement...

                            As much as I agree, the time for things to change without resorting to violence is certainly past once we start calling for jury-less trials & executions of our opponents, hence my vehement opposition of the OP, hyperbolic or not. Not to mention how easily those things could be turned against those who called for them in the first place.

                            2 votes
                            1. [2]
                              CALICO Link Parent
                              They tend to be anyway. Most modern revolutions I can think of involve a purging of — at least some — of the revolutionaries themselves.

                              ...those things could be turned against those who called for them in the first place.

                              They tend to be anyway. Most modern revolutions I can think of involve a purging of — at least some — of the revolutionaries themselves.

                              3 votes
                    2. [2]
                      demifiend Link Parent
                      Oh, sure. Equate the entire French Revolution with the Reign of Terror. That's really persuasive.

                      Oh, sure. Equate the entire French Revolution with the Reign of Terror. That's really persuasive.

                      1 vote
                      1. arghdos Link Parent
                        You fucking called for bringing out the Guillotine to execute (presumably?) bankers and politicians, and you expect that to go well? You expect that to be persuasive at all?

                        You fucking called for bringing out the Guillotine to execute (presumably?) bankers and politicians, and you expect that to go well? You expect that to be persuasive at all?

                        2 votes
  2. dubteedub (edited ) Link
    https://twitter.com/renato_mariotti/status/1032004673744654336 https://twitter.com/renato_mariotti/status/1032004678119313410 Edit: meant to add this earlier, but Renato Mariotti is a former...

    https://twitter.com/renato_mariotti/status/1032004673744654336

    As a legal matter, this is a complete and total defeat for Manafort. He will get the same sentence that he would have received if he was convicted on all 18 counts. The number of counts of conviction doesn’t impact federal sentencing.

    https://twitter.com/renato_mariotti/status/1032004678119313410

    In a typical case, prosecutors wouldn’t bother going forward with a second trial on the other 10 counts. And most defendants would plead guilty in the second case. But this is not a typical case.

    Edit: meant to add this earlier, but Renato Mariotti is a former federal prosecutor and current CNN legal analyst

    10 votes
  3. anti Link
    Does anyone know what 10 charges didn't stick in the jury deliberations? (Since I'm sure the government will try them again.)

    Does anyone know what 10 charges didn't stick in the jury deliberations? (Since I'm sure the government will try them again.)

    2 votes