20 votes

Michael Cohen's lawyer says he's completely flipped and will give evidence that US President Donald Trump colluded with Russia

8 comments

  1. [4]
    nacho
    Link
    A lot of people have a lot of strong opinions based on a lot of information that isn't public or isn't given under oath as is necessarily for the actual legal proceedings regarding various parts...

    A lot of people have a lot of strong opinions based on a lot of information that isn't public or isn't given under oath as is necessarily for the actual legal proceedings regarding various parts of the investigations into Russian meddling in the 2016 elections.

    I cannot wait to be able to read more of the primary sources myself and I hope I can read them with a mostly open mind. I wonder how Cohens trove of "4 million documents" work out in terms of client confidentiality and so on. The political spin and personal investment a lot of public figures have on the whole story and all its facets have certainly colored what I think, but hopefully not too much.

    Whatever the conclusions from the proceedings, I hope things are resolved one way or another reasonably quickly. Resolution of the issue is the first step to politicians working on policy again. That's what matters in our daily lives.

    11 votes
    1. [2]
      CALICO
      Link Parent
      As of last month, at least 3.2 million documents were in the hands of prosecutors. It's fair to say that most of what was seized during the FBI raid in the spring is not privileged information.

      As of last month, at least 3.2 million documents were in the hands of prosecutors. It's fair to say that most of what was seized during the FBI raid in the spring is not privileged information.

      6 votes
      1. Parliament
        Link Parent
        I just read in an article that 0.2% of the seized documents were privileged information according to the special master on the case.

        I just read in an article that 0.2% of the seized documents were privileged information according to the special master on the case.

        4 votes
    2. [2]
      Comment removed by site admin
      Link Parent
      1. nacho
        Link Parent
        That is indeed the most interesting quote. How well can it be corroborated though? Single witnesses or single sources rarely seem to do well in high profile legal proceedings where defense...

        That is indeed the most interesting quote.

        How well can it be corroborated though? Single witnesses or single sources rarely seem to do well in high profile legal proceedings where defense attorneys are experts at establishing just enough doubt for people to walk free for actions they pretty surely did commit.

        This is far from over. But at least things are starting to get public so we can put an end to as much of the speculation as possible.

        4 votes
  2. [4]
    Eugene
    Link
    Can anybody with more knowledge than me explain what legal hoops America needs to jump through to get this whole mess cleaned up? Is it possible to flush out all of the co-conspirators in Trump's...

    Can anybody with more knowledge than me explain what legal hoops America needs to jump through to get this whole mess cleaned up? Is it possible to flush out all of the co-conspirators in Trump's cabinet or do we just have to do damage control until the next election? Do you even think Trump so face legal action before the next president is appointed?

    8 votes
    1. nacho
      Link Parent
      My understanding is that there are a lot of norms that politicians have usually followed. As I understand it, we largely don't know what happens if the politicians in power don't follow those...

      My understanding is that there are a lot of norms that politicians have usually followed. As I understand it, we largely don't know what happens if the politicians in power don't follow those norms. That hasn't been tested in the courts before.

      To give one example, Trump has repeatedly said he has the authority to fire Muller. Congressional democrats have said they'll go to court because they strongly disagree. What happens in practice if it gets handed over to courts? Who knows.


      NBC reported today that the Democrats have a large emergency plan in place if things come to ahead. We're talking weekly meetings, calling lists and pre-written legislation ready to go in different eventualities, according to NBC.

      What's certain, is that the US president has wide-ranging powers to pardon pretty much anyone for pretty much anything, and that there are very strict processes for impeaching a president for wrongdoing.

      I'm sure others can probably present a higher level of granularity with details. At the same time I'm weary because a lot of legal experts are drawing conclusions with a remarkable level of certainty despite lack of precedence from similar cases.

      8 votes
    2. [2]
      CALICO
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      It really depends on how large the mess turns out to be. There is publicly available information to suggest (hitherto unconfirmed, IIRC) that this mess goes back years and involves a portion of...

      It really depends on how large the mess turns out to be. There is publicly available information to suggest (hitherto unconfirmed, IIRC) that this mess goes back years and involves a portion of the RNC and GOP.

      The President doesn't seem likely to yield office, and the GOP controlled House doesn't seem likely to hold him accountable for his actions and alleged crimes. So, barring a last-ditch effort in self-preservation, Impeachment proceedings are doomed to fail until at least January 2019 when the Representatives who've won election during November midterms assume office. That's assuming the Democrats obtain a majority, which is possible but not a sure thing. If impeached, he can't be removed without 2/3 votes in the Senate to convict. It's not possible for the Democrats to obtain 67 seats during this election. Senate Republicans seem to be people of higher integrity than House Republicans (see: Senate Intelligence Committee) so if the Democrats can secure at least a simple-majority then it's possible that an Impeachment could still result in a conviction. As an aside, the Democrats having a simple-majority in the Senate would be massive in that they would get subpoena power, and block any kind of nonsense that tries to happen; things have gotten as bad as they are largely because Leader McConnell has been blocking anything even resembling accountability.

      So, if President Trump is removed we must now look at Mike Pence as he would be next in line for the Presidency. Given that he was hand-selected by now-convicted criminal and Ukrainian/Russian-asset Paul Manafort, and had knowledge of Michael Flynn's contacts weeks before his being fired for them, it's likely that Pence is in some way, shape, or form, tied up in this mess as well. AFAIK there's not publicly available information to tie him to any crime at this time however, so how that proceeds is up in the air.

      If Pence is removed as well, then the 3rd in line for the Presidency is the Speaker of the House. Currently that is Paul Ryan, who is not seeking reelection in 2018. If the Democrats take the House, Nancy Pelosi is likely to be Speaker. While she has her faults, and her popularity is a topic on non-stop conversation, the Democratic Party is fully behind her legislative agenda. However, if things progress this far before the 2020 election, we can expect a horror-show of epic proportions. President Pelosi is not something the Republican Party at large will tolerate, even if it's only temporary until the 2020 candidate is sworn in.

      More broadly speaking, if the crimes and corruption go as deep as to involve a large portion of the Republican Party, it's hard to see a way that gets cleaned up without some kind of social uprising — however small — because no matter how legitimate that would be, a non-negligible amount of people would cry "coup" and I won't think about how that will unravel. As for the ability to clean things up, that entirely rides on which party holds majorities in both Chambers of Congress, and how solid that majority is. Even a Supreme Court Justice could be removed with a solid-enough majority.

      8 votes
      1. Gaywallet
        Link Parent
        Not to mention the first female president happening because "everything got all kinds of fucked up" is not a great mark on history and while technically a step forward for females, is likely to...

        While she has her faults, and her popularity is a topic on non-stop conversation, the Democratic Party is fully behind her legislative agenda. However, if things progress this far before the 2020 election, we can expect a horror-show of epic proportions. President Pelosi is not something the Republican Party at large will tolerate, even if it's only temporary until the 2020 candidate is sworn in.

        Not to mention the first female president happening because "everything got all kinds of fucked up" is not a great mark on history and while technically a step forward for females, is likely to result in three steps back.

        3 votes