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Brexit: Most Tory members would choose no deal over May's plan. Survey also finds that in two-option poll, 76% would choose no deal over remain.
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- Title
- Most Tory members would choose no deal over May's Brexit plan
- Authors
- Rajeev Syal
- Published
- Jan 4 2019
That is absolutely insane. I had no idea that no deal brexit had even a modicum of support, let alone more support than May's plan.
I guess it's comforting in the abstract (also terrifying) that the US doesn't have a monopoly on the detachment of the electorate from reality. I mean, I "get" the, let's say nationalist argument, of prioritizing their ideal of the country over economic growth, but to argue that suddenly dropping out of the world's largest economy, and resetting to no trade relations with any major county within thousands of miles after decades of total integration, while having just burned through any remaining good will by snubbing years of diplomatic work by those countries, is a recipe for growth, is... well to be honest, I don't really have words. Wow.
Insane really is the word.
The only modicum of comfort here is that it's specifically a survey of Tory party members (not even all Tory voters, just actively registered members). In that context, I'm disappointed but not especially surprised to see May's compromise plan getting lower support than the "fuck everything and send a strong message" option.
The idea that they still think it'd have a positive effect on the economy, however, is rather terrifying.
It's ridiculous... on an anecdotal level, I have older family members in Wales who are staunchly pro-Brexit to the tune of "the less 'deal' the better" -- and that, in an area that's been a massive beneficiary of EU monies in the form of communications improvements and career training.
They just can't process what opportunity means to someone who's not retired, nor why every member of the family under 60 lives in London, California, or Hong Kong; the plain reality is that the area is dying off from lack of opportunity, but they have no impetus to break through delusion as they'll be amongst the dead by the time it hits its nadir.
"Tory party members" is only 124,000 people. They're not even the second biggest party membership in the UK (Labour first, then the SNP)
As a counterpoint to others in the thread (and I'm not playing devil's advocate) I truly believe this, like the yellow vest movement in France, is being sold as a group of luddite nationalists (read racists) when it's really a rejection of globalism that makes big promises about the benefits of accruing debt, and then when things go south (unrealistic economic targets aren't met) it's privatization, austerity for the public and tax cuts and deregulation for the elites. It's become a very common pattern of operation world wide and the globalists/oligarchs are becoming pretty aggressive in their rhetoric about what will happen if their demands aren't met, basically inferring
intimatingthat they will break economies that don't play ball.In a lot of ways I actually agree with you. The problem is, I can't see any realistic way that the economic impact of a hard Brexit wouldn't exacerbate those problems - particularly given that major proponents like Jacob Rees-Mogg are some of the absolute worst offenders when it comes to "privatization, austerity for the public and tax cuts and deregulation for the elites".
Most people are getting fucked over, no doubt - but I have yet to hear a single compelling argument on how leaving the EU will help matters there.
It's really a problem of being locked in to the EU (and whatever their collective economic ideology of the day is) once you join. I mean, if the leadership decided to re-adopt feudalism what is a member state supposed to do?
If the UK were to come up with a framework of trade with other countries, and then make slight modifications to it in individual negotiations with other nations, but because of the EU agreements the member states couldn't even ratify the agreement without EU approval. It's either engineered this way from the onset, or they were incredibly ignorant about the possibility of a state wanting to exit and what that would mean to future relations.
...leave?
Why leave now because of a hypothetical situation that could occur in the future?
The point is once you leave you are economically cut off from previous trade partners (lords) and you can't renegotiate with them individually because the king has the ultimate say - if he is being impossible in his demands you could be economically destroyed so you're trapped without any real option to express your own sovereignty.
I think you can make that argument about quite a lot of brexit voters, although I disagree that voting for brexit was a rational way to express that rejection - but this poll was Tory party members. They are far more likely to be old fashioned racists/luddite nationalists/globalists/neo-liberals (or all four!). The Tory party is very much pro debt, pro privatisation, pro austerity, pro tax cuts for the rich and pro deregulation. I mean they literally do all that stuff with wild abandon every time they're in power.
The Brexit deal May currently has is really bad and she's made a huge mess of it tbh.
What would be a better deal? I'm curious about this, as it looks to me (from the other side of the world) like this deal is the least-bad option available. What would make for a better deal, and how would it work?
I'm not even sure at this point, I just don't want the UK to go out with no-deal basically.
You don't want a no-deal. Fine. Teresa May and the EU have negotiated a deal. But you don't want that, either.
Can you at least specify the aspect(s) of the deal which make it "really bad" in your eyes? This would give an indication of what points could be changed to make a better deal.