14 votes

‘It was getting ugly’: Native American drummer speaks on his encounter with MAGA-hat-wearing teens

14 comments

  1. [12]
    dubteedub
    Link
    What these children is completely reprehensible, but what bothers me more is the chaperons and teachers that sat on the sidelines and watched and cheered these kids on, and all the right-wing...

    What these children is completely reprehensible, but what bothers me more is the chaperons and teachers that sat on the sidelines and watched and cheered these kids on, and all the right-wing personalities rallying behind them. Even ignoring Nick Sandman's aggressively getting in Nathan Philips face and smiling, these kids were mocking and jeering at a Vietnam War vet native american peacefully singing and playing a drum, throwing up the tomahawk chop and shouting "build the wall."

    It has been clear from the numerous other videos and accounts that have come out about these kids from Covington that this is a systemic issue within their community and not at all aberrant behavior.

    Here is video of them shouting "its not rape if you enjoy it" in D.C.

    Here is video of them harassing women on the street in D.C.

    Videos and pictures have also surfaced of multiple kids from Covington going to basketball games against black schools in black face.

    All I keep imagining when I have seen all this play out over the weekend was what the total and complete backlash would have been if these were a group of black kids wearing "black lives matter" attire or something similar. No one would have been defending these kids, and it would be used as evidence of some cultural accusation for all black people and the black lives matter movement as a whole. Instead, since these are a bunch of rich white kids, so many people are bending over backwards to stick up for their behavior. It leaves me with a horrible taste in my mouth.

    13 votes
    1. [11]
      somewaffles
      Link Parent
      The blame really belongs 100% on the faculty that watched it happened. The kids are in high school and were already being harassed by the Hebrew Israelites before Phillips approached them. The...

      What these children is completely reprehensible, but what bothers me more is the chaperons and teachers that sat on the sidelines and watched and cheered these kids on, and all the right-wing personalities rallying behind them.

      The blame really belongs 100% on the faculty that watched it happened. The kids are in high school and were already being harassed by the Hebrew Israelites before Phillips approached them. The full video makes it very apparent they had already been riled up. The kids were being obnoxious but ask any high school teacher, mob mentality is scarily real with kids (black/white/male/female/whatever). It's literally the faculties job to stop them from being a bunch of turds but as far as I had seen in the TWO HOUR video, not a single attempt was made to quell what was going on. Now they are being painted as the face of racism, when you have a bunch of adults watching them doing it, obviously entertained enough to not stop it. It just blows my mind that people can blame a bunch of kids for being edgy and distasteful. These kids aren't inherently bad people, they are a bi-product of a shitty community/education system.

      And as a tangent, the worst part is they are probably experiencing extreme levels of cognitive dissonance. The entire country is talking about how awful they are which is only going to serve to reinforce their behavior. They need to understand why what they did was wrong and not "you're a bunch of racist assholes who deserve nothing but the worst." They are kids who had a bunch of adults letting them do dumb shit.

      14 votes
      1. [5]
        Gaywallet
        Link Parent
        This isn't "letting them" do dumb shit. This isn't "entertained enough to not stop it". This is racist adults too scared to be openly racist enough to take the place of these kids and reinforcing...

        you have a bunch of adults watching them doing it, obviously entertained enough to not stop it

        They are kids who had a bunch of adults letting them do dumb shit.

        This isn't "letting them" do dumb shit. This isn't "entertained enough to not stop it". This is racist adults too scared to be openly racist enough to take the place of these kids and reinforcing this behavior in secret. This is bigotry grooming the next generation to be even more bigoted than they are.

        This is humanity at its worst.

        9 votes
        1. [4]
          somewaffles
          Link Parent
          You can call it what you want, but those racist adults were kids once too. OP linked a video from 2011 of kids in blackface at the very same school. Do you know where some of those kids are now?...

          You can call it what you want, but those racist adults were kids once too. OP linked a video from 2011 of kids in blackface at the very same school. Do you know where some of those kids are now? Teaching a new generation of kids.

          It's easy to throw your hands up and say "this is humanity at it's worst, they're a bunch of bigots" and ignore that we can change stuff like this. Maybe it's too late for the faculty and even those high school kids, but making changes now to faculty and holding them accountable is the difference between this happening again and kids who understand why it's wrong before it happens.

          7 votes
          1. [3]
            Gaywallet
            Link Parent
            Apologies if I wasn't clear. I was in no way excusing the behavior or stating that "nothing can be done". I was simply pointing out that these adults aren't just "not acting" they are specifically...

            Apologies if I wasn't clear. I was in no way excusing the behavior or stating that "nothing can be done". I was simply pointing out that these adults aren't just "not acting" they are specifically being malicious.

            I agree that the faculty should be held accountable. The biggest problem here is that it's likely reflective of the society that exists in this location. If the people living in this city are willing to put up with this behavior and not protest, or call for the school to be held responsible, it's very hard to enforce much of anything.

            Ideally, I think, a protest organization should organize some folks from outside of the area and start protesting the school. People should be spamming the facebook, instagram, and other social networks these kids are active on to make potential future employers aware (if they stay local this won't help much, but if they try to leave this will follow them). Pull news and national attention to this school and keep at it so that the focus keeps coming back when there's lulls in the cycle. Unfortunately this likely will not hold for long, and the people will go back to their ways (but in secret) with enough time after some sort of appeasatory action is taken.

            But, the important point is action. If someone is able to organize people to protest every time something like this happens, eventually it will be expected for this to happen. Eventually it will get ingrained in society as a whole that this isn't acceptable behavior. When a good chunk of the society lets you know this, it helps to break up insular areas where all your neighbors think a particular way.

            4 votes
            1. [2]
              somewaffles
              Link Parent
              I can agree action should be taken and like you mentioned, I also agree protests and social media are not a long term solution. You may have a misunderstanding of how the bigotted mind works....

              I can agree action should be taken and like you mentioned, I also agree protests and social media are not a long term solution. You may have a misunderstanding of how the bigotted mind works. Please do not get me wrong, there are certainly evil people in the world that have openly racist beliefs. However, most of these people aren't practicing racism "in secret."

              You would be surprised with how most of these kinds of people don't know what they are doing is wrong or understand how their views could be seen as wrong. For quick example, the wall. In their world, they see the wall as a way to keep illegal immigrants out, they are completely ignorant to the racist implications such a wall brings with it. It's not something they think about. They aren't taking into consideration any other viewpoint except that of a white person. Is it wrong? Yeah, they even have the internet to look up why it's wrong. I'm not saying they aren't racist but they don't see it that way because they don't have a grasp of other peoples perspective. They weren't raised that way and neither were their parents.

              People in charge at that school need to be replaced with people who bring a multi-cultural perspective to their students. It's not a quick, romantic answer, but to me it's the only thing that is proven to work. Of course then you have to take into account that most states educational systems are completely broken but that's a rabbit hole I am not trying to go down. This whole culture of condemnation is insane and just strengthens the cognitive dissonance these people are experiencing.

              (note I'm an optimist and am only speaking from my personal experiences with far-right conservatives, it's very possible it's a town full of evil, hateful people.)

              5 votes
              1. Gaywallet
                Link Parent
                Oh no I'm well aware that this is the issue. The problem is that their societies are very insular and we've been de-funding education in America for nearly half a century. We do not have diversity...
                • Exemplary

                You would be surprised with how most of these kinds of people don't know what they are doing is wrong or understand how their views could be seen as wrong.

                Oh no I'm well aware that this is the issue. The problem is that their societies are very insular and we've been de-funding education in America for nearly half a century. We do not have diversity programs, either, to help deal with areas of America which have extremely high densities of single ethnicities. We do not have educational programs to address how to function in a global society let alone programs to teach why diversity is both important and useful.

                People in charge at that school need to be replaced with people who bring a multi-cultural perspective to their students.

                Absolutely, although I think this won't help too much. A large portion of society in this location has adopted a particular style of thinking. A single individual, or even a few individuals only present in a school are not going to change their minds anytime soon.

                This whole culture of condemnation is insane and just strengthens the cognitive dissonance these people are experiencing.

                To an extent I agree. Punishing them for holding their beliefs will strengthen their cognitive dissonance. There's a difference between publicly protesting and demanding action, however. Setting the tone of "this is what society thinks is okay" while minimizing who gets punished and how (such as replacing figureheads in the school) will net a benefit for society as a whole. It's really a balancing act and it's tough to implement. For example, these kids should not be expelled for their actions, but instead forced to attend diversity training sessions - the punishment needs to be indirect and not focused on telling them they are bad, but helping them to understand that they hurt others. However, at the end of the day, any action to these kids may increase their cognitive dissonance (and the cognitive dissonance of those who are replaced/fired in the school), but the true goal is for the rest of the kids (especially those who may not feel empowered to voice their opinion) to be nudged in the right direction. It's a slow and painful process.

                3 votes
      2. [5]
        dubteedub
        Link Parent
        MAGA Hat-Wearing Teen Claims He Was Helping To Defuse ‘The Situation’ The kids asked for permission to start some chants and further engage with the groups in the area, and rather than telling the...

        “Because we were being loudly attacked and taunted in public, a student in our group asked one of our teacher chaperones for permission to begin our school spirit chants to counter the hateful things that were being shouted at our group,” he said. “Our chaperone gave us permission to use our school chants. We would not have done that without obtaining permission from the adults in charge of our group.”

        The kids asked for permission to start some chants and further engage with the groups in the area, and rather than telling the kids to calm down and take them somewhere else, the chaperones actually gave them permission to engage with these groups.

        I think @gaywallet is spot on and that this is a community of racists and they are grooming their kids into this behavior purposefully.

        How else do you explain the fact that out of the dozen kids in this photo from their school four of them are in actual black face, completely with caricature facial features, and that the parents, teachers, and coaches at this school all seem to have no issue with it?

        https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxbCfL1UcAAOSCK.jpg

        2 votes
        1. [4]
          somewaffles
          Link Parent
          I'm not disagreeing with you, what I'm saying is we need to hold the faculty accountable and stop condemning a bunch of kids who were literally raised to think this behavior is okay.

          I'm not disagreeing with you, what I'm saying is we need to hold the faculty accountable and stop condemning a bunch of kids who were literally raised to think this behavior is okay.

          3 votes
          1. [3]
            Thrabalen
            Link Parent
            I think we need to do both. If we don't hold the kids accountable, they won't even try to change their behavior. These adult faculty members likely didn't hit 21 and say "Well, I'm an adult now....

            I think we need to do both. If we don't hold the kids accountable, they won't even try to change their behavior. These adult faculty members likely didn't hit 21 and say "Well, I'm an adult now. Time to get a decent job, get an apartment, and become horribly racist."

            4 votes
            1. [2]
              somewaffles
              Link Parent
              How can you hold a kid accountable for something they don't understand? Your'e going to suspend them for copying what they see adults in their community do? That solves nothing and will make even...

              How can you hold a kid accountable for something they don't understand? Your'e going to suspend them for copying what they see adults in their community do? That solves nothing and will make even less sense to them. They need to understand why what they were doing was not okay and see what happens when adults are held responsible for being shitty. If you suspend someone for chanting "build the wall" and being obnoxious it will only serve to make them more bitter.

              4 votes
              1. Thrabalen
                Link Parent
                You can't teach them that what they did was bad, and then give them a pat on the wrist and say "and don't let it happen again". I'm not saying they have to be held as accountable as the adults,...

                You can't teach them that what they did was bad, and then give them a pat on the wrist and say "and don't let it happen again". I'm not saying they have to be held as accountable as the adults, but there still must be accountability.

                2 votes
  2. [2]
    Alatar
    Link
    This story was from a couple days ago but there have been updates: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/20/us/nathan-phillips-covington.html?action=click&module=Latest&pgtype=Homepage...
    3 votes
    1. dubteedub
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      I think if anything the longer 2 hour video still shows the parents, chaperones, and teachers failing in their responsibilities to separate their students from a bad situation and to deescalate...

      I think if anything the longer 2 hour video still shows the parents, chaperones, and teachers failing in their responsibilities to separate their students from a bad situation and to deescalate the engagement.

      It also lines up with what Nathan Philips detailed in his interview following the event of the original viral video.

      I will just end with the fact that the rich parents of Nick Sandmann, the the Covington Catholic student who was featured in the original video standing face to face with Nathan Philips, hired a GOP PR firm over the weekend. I think quite a lot of people fell for their attempt to spin the narrative to put the blame on Nathan and the Indigenous Peoples March.

      3 votes