16 votes

White Men Keep Killing Themselves With Guns. The NRA Is Making It Worse.

8 comments

  1. [7]
    Keegan
    Link
    While reading this article, I saw a video embedded in the page that upon first glance didn't really belong to the article, but is rather more of a "suggested video". I watched it anyways, and it...

    While reading this article, I saw a video embedded in the page that upon first glance didn't really belong to the article, but is rather more of a "suggested video". I watched it anyways, and it was fascinating to me.

    Guns For God: The Church of the AR-15

    The video details a church that has many characteristics of a cult, and has been called a cult, but I feel like I am not one to determine this so I won't judge on it. Their main premise is that of bringing god's kingdom onto Earth, which does have quite a bit of religious and historical precedence.

    Their thing with guns relates back to how in the middle ages you would bless a sword, but swords have been irrelevant since the longbow and crossbow with iron tipped arrows were pitted against it.

    All in all, their ideas have historical basis, but are flawed in their insanity, in my eyes at least, to think that all their followers must have a gun, including those that are so elderly that I'm not sure that they could wield it correctly. They also seem to lack a sense of timing, considering they made headlines after the Parkland shooting by having their blessing ceremony of their guns, which is at best inconsiderate, but most likely done with good intentions.


    As for the article as a whole, I appreciate you for posting it, as I do dislike any amount of suicide anywhere, but I still would rather there be action taken regarding the mental health system and society as a whole before spending more time on the argument about gun rights, as that topic isn't going anywhere good in America, at the least in the current political climate. There need to be more resources and education about mental health, and one of the things I'm completely in support of government control of is the pharmacy industry, which artificially drives up prices in a manner that is absolutely disgusting given its effects on people that are in a situation where an inability to afford a medication means that they are fucked.

    5 votes
    1. [6]
      NaraVara
      Link Parent
      Part of mental health interventions to prevent suicide involves keeping people away from implements of self-harm (or harm to others). But when that implement is a gun, guess what the NRA will...

      I still would rather there be action taken regarding the mental health system and society as a whole before spending more time on the argument about gun rights, as that topic isn't going anywhere good in America, at the least in the current political climate.

      Part of mental health interventions to prevent suicide involves keeping people away from implements of self-harm (or harm to others). But when that implement is a gun, guess what the NRA will lobby to stop you from doing. You can’t even revoke carry privileges from domestic abusers with active restraining orders against them.

      8 votes
      1. [5]
        DevNull
        Link Parent
        I sincerely hope that don't really believe that you can ever prevent or even mildly influence suicide (or attempts) by "keeping people away from implements of self-harm". This is about gun...

        I sincerely hope that don't really believe that you can ever prevent or even mildly influence suicide (or attempts) by "keeping people away from implements of self-harm". This is about gun control, so was the article. It had absolutely NO valuable information about mental health or suicide prevention.
        It shocks me how little is understood about mental healh, or more accurately, PEOPLE who have mental health problems. Yeah I said "problems" not "issues".
        I can only reference the "healthcare" system in the US, but every aspect of my comment is from direct firsthand experience and decades of living 24x7 in pursuit of some basic understanding that is based solely on observation of real situations and people and not on theory and presumption (nor financial gain through biased opinion presented as fact).
        Gun control - great idea. But not because it will keep Uncle Dave from blowing his face off.

        1. [3]
          alyaza
          Link Parent
          you almost certainly can, though, particularly with firearms. in fact, not only is access to firearms generally established in the united states as being correlated with a higher rate of suicide,...

          I sincerely hope that don't really believe that you can ever prevent or even mildly influence suicide (or attempts) by "keeping people away from implements of self-harm".

          you almost certainly can, though, particularly with firearms. in fact, not only is access to firearms generally established in the united states as being correlated with a higher rate of suicide, but also you're more likely to commit suicide successfully if you own a firearm than if you don't. the suicide rate would be exceedingly likely to go down, as would the self-harm rate, if gun control measures were implemented across the board.

          8 votes
          1. [2]
            Eva
            Link Parent
            This, absolutely. @DevNull, I grew up in a community that has probably the most lax rules on gun ownership in the United States (no permit required for conceal and carry, even). I know really...

            This, absolutely.

            @DevNull, I grew up in a community that has probably the most lax rules on gun ownership in the United States (no permit required for conceal and carry, even). I know really personally the effect of guns on suicides.

            I grew up in a town of six-hundred people.

            Around five people a year'd off themselves during my stay.

            Outside of three exceptions, every single one I can think of was a gun death. It's really tempting to just go out to the safe when you're feeling bad and put a bullet through your skull. This didn't really change my opinion on guns (a bit of violence in my life did later on), but it's blatantly obvious to me that the presence of guns do contribute very directly to suicide rates; I used to find it comforting, almost, that if I wanted to it was only a hop, skip and a jump away.

            There are even studies on this! Assuming you're genuine with your concern, check these out:

            https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199208133270705

            https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1995-17746-001

            https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1994-37645-001

            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1485564/

            There's universal consensus on that being fact.

            (If you want to look beyond the abstracts: http://sci-hub.tw/)

            11 votes
            1. alyaza
              Link Parent
              and here's some more which support the conclusion that suicide rate and/or the conclusion that successful suicides go up with gun ownership, just to drive home the point: Lethality of firearms...
              9 votes
        2. NaraVara
          Link Parent
          Do you know anything about suicide prevention? This absolutely is a critical step in how it works. It’s why they put call boxes by bridges with minor inconveniences to climbing over railings. It’s...

          sincerely hope that don't really believe that you can ever prevent or even mildly influence suicide (or attempts) by "keeping people away from implements of self-harm".

          Do you know anything about suicide prevention? This absolutely is a critical step in how it works. It’s why they put call boxes by bridges with minor inconveniences to climbing over railings. It’s partly why most drugs that you can overdose on require prescriptions.

          Very few people are ardently resolved to end their lives. It is almost always an impulsive decision and is more of a cry for help and attention than anything else. The more steps and friction exist between making an irreversible move the less likely people are to go through with it.

          One of the big reasons suicide is so much more prevalent among men than women is exactly because men tend to use guns, which are extremely effective, while women tend to opt for pills, drowning, cutting or other means that are harder to actually go through with.

          Gun control would absolutely be super effective at keeping people from blowing their heads off, and other people’s heads off, as I mentioned when I talked about spousal abuse. (Although you’d have to actually get tons of them off the secondhand market for it to accomplish anything).

          I can only reference the "healthcare" system in the US, but every aspect of my comment is from direct firsthand experience and decades of living 24x7 in pursuit of some basic understanding that is based solely on observation of real situations and people and not on theory and presumption (nor financial gain through biased opinion presented as fact).

          I have no idea what you’re trying to reference or invalidate here, but it’s sounding suspiciously like some kind of special pleading for throwing out actual expertise and evidence based research in favor of personal anecdotes.

          5 votes
  2. tunneljumper
    Link
    I remember reading somewhere that men are 53 times more likely to kill themselves with a gun than they are someone else. (I'll research and source this tomorrow, it's late and I'm in my bed)

    I remember reading somewhere that men are 53 times more likely to kill themselves with a gun than they are someone else.

    (I'll research and source this tomorrow, it's late and I'm in my bed)

    2 votes