13 votes

Less than half of all Americans want Trump ousted post-impeachment: Reuters/Ipsos poll

13 comments

  1. [6]
    ThatFanficGuy
    Link
    Or, to frame the headline in a way more reflective of its subject: "Almost half the fucking country wants the President to no longer president, despite the political divide" Because that shit is...

    Or, to frame the headline in a way more reflective of its subject:

    "Almost half the fucking country wants the President to no longer president, despite the political divide"

    Because that shit is outrageous, and should be told as such.

    22 votes
    1. [5]
      Keegan
      Link Parent
      I figured that was already a known fact that many people want him out. What shocked me is that even after impeachment, so many people still don't want him removed for various reasons.

      I figured that was already a known fact that many people want him out. What shocked me is that even after impeachment, so many people still don't want him removed for various reasons.

      4 votes
      1. [4]
        stephen
        Link Parent
        I think this gets at a shortcoming about the impeachment as pursued: The Democrats picked something demonstrably illegal but not intuitive to low-information voters. You can't get the real issue...

        I think this gets at a shortcoming about the impeachment as pursued: The Democrats picked something demonstrably illegal but not intuitive to low-information voters. You can't get the real issue from a tweet or headline.

        You can communicate parts of it or a metaphor explaining it but not really the whole thing. And even if you do, it's not immediately clear why it's impeachable. Maybe it seems simple to someone paying a lot of attention. But I don't think it's so clear why using a personal lawyer to establish a back channel and conducting personally beneficial, transactional foreign policy is wrong or even a breach from the norms. Especially now that we are in world of "deep state" paranoia and GOP flack that no longer resembles reality.

        Of course, more people support impeachment than don't. But I think the reason why the gap isn't wider bears consideration.

        A possible remedy is Democrats could do another impeachment about emoluments. That one is easier to grasp: "Donald Trump used the presidency to get rich." Even if it takes longer to prove that could be good. Two or three months of hearings would be an absolute sound-byte factory.

        10 votes
        1. [2]
          Akir
          Link Parent
          I honestly don't think bringing up emoluments is going to make a difference. The fact that he has been abusing his power for personal gain has been obvious for years now. His supporters either...

          I honestly don't think bringing up emoluments is going to make a difference. The fact that he has been abusing his power for personal gain has been obvious for years now. His supporters either don't care or don't think it's bad.

          10 votes
          1. Gaywallet
            Link Parent
            I feel like while they may not admit it, this is a huge factor. 'Get rich or die trying' is very much an idea that is alive and well in America. We celebrate success stories all the time while...

            don't think it's bad.

            I feel like while they may not admit it, this is a huge factor.

            'Get rich or die trying' is very much an idea that is alive and well in America. We celebrate success stories all the time while sweeping all the skeletons that lead to that success under the rug.

            5 votes
        2. patience_limited
          Link Parent
          There's no end of things Trump could be impeached for, but the Democrats were hoping that a single, "caught red-handed" instance would be easiest to try in Congress and simplest to convince the...

          There's no end of things Trump could be impeached for, but the Democrats were hoping that a single, "caught red-handed" instance would be easiest to try in Congress and simplest to convince the public about. As you described, this was a miscalculation, and grossly underestimated how far the Republicans were willing to go in clouding the issues and misleading their constituents.

          5 votes
  2. stephen
    Link
    "6% more Americans favor impeachment than do not" "46% of Americans favor impeachment while 14% unsure" Framing matters.

    "6% more Americans favor impeachment than do not"

    "46% of Americans favor impeachment while 14% unsure"

    Framing matters.

    20 votes
  3. Litmus2336
    Link
    Impeachment isn't really a popularity contest. It's an enforcement of law.

    Impeachment isn't really a popularity contest. It's an enforcement of law.

    13 votes
  4. [3]
    Keegan
    Link
    This was interesting to me. I think removing him from office would overinflame the right and make people more conservative as it's "the Dems taking their vote". I hadn't considered a formal...

    This was interesting to me. I think removing him from office would overinflame the right and make people more conservative as it's "the Dems taking their vote". I hadn't considered a formal censure as an option.

    4 votes
    1. [2]
      stephen
      Link Parent
      I think censure would have a cooling effect in some democratic races. Seeing you elected reps opting for "slap on the wrist" when the president is obviously breaking the law would not make me more...

      I think censure would have a cooling effect in some democratic races. Seeing you elected reps opting for "slap on the wrist" when the president is obviously breaking the law would not make me more enthusiastic. This would be even worse if the reasoning is "we don't want to upset the GOP's base."

      These people can't possibly get more fired up without being read the riot act. Trump's core base has been stable for a while. The Tea Party/Freedom caucus fervor getting stronger because of impeachment doesn't matter. They got whipped up about Obama wearing a tan suit and asking for mustard. Reality doesn't matter. They get pissed about what Fox and Breitbart tell them to get pissed about regardless of what happens.

      The center and the left need to stop thinking about how to pussy foot around these people. They will literally never make that consideration.

      14 votes
      1. Kuromantis
        Link Parent
        Tl;dr: The voters are just dumb (or in more polite and less loaded terms unwilling to change their opinions, too easily swayable and not willing enough to actually check their sources or pay...

        Reality doesn't matter. They get pissed about what Fox and Breitbart tell them to get pissed about regardless of what happens.

        Tl;dr: The voters are just dumb (or in more polite and less loaded terms unwilling to change their opinions, too easily swayable and not willing enough to actually check their sources or pay attention to, more often than not, crucial details.) and a symptom, with the media (Cable TV, but also some conservative outlets in the Internet like PragerU and Crowder) being the cause of the problem and what we should really be doing to solve it is regulating news platforms (and aggregators) and taking more steps to reduce misinformation and emphasize critical thinking as much as possible.

        2 votes
  5. retiredrugger
    Link
    I dislike Trump but I would much rather keep him in office through his term. While it's only a short time, I think Pence would be far more dangerous in one year to America than Trump ever could in...

    I dislike Trump but I would much rather keep him in office through his term. While it's only a short time, I think Pence would be far more dangerous in one year to America than Trump ever could in his three years. I'd rather have a bull in a china shop than a fox in the chicken coop.

    4 votes
  6. ubergeek
    Link
    That's cool. Over half of of the voters didn't even want him in office, to begin with.

    That's cool. Over half of of the voters didn't even want him in office, to begin with.

    1 vote