18
votes
Daily thread for news/updates/discussion of George Floyd protests - June 7
This thread is posted daily - please try to post relevant content in here, such as news, updates, opinion articles, etc. Especially significant updates may warrant a separate topic, but most should be posted here.
On Sunday afternoon, a veto-proof majority of Minneapolis City Council members will announce their commitment to disbanding the city’s embattled police department
Absolutely the only thing to do at this point.
If anywhere was going to have police recognize how badly they've fucked up and step down their responses, you'd think it'd be Minneapolis. Instead we get MPD doing drive-by pepper-sprays of obviously peaceful protesters .
Related: Minneapolis mayor booed by protesters after refusing to defund and abolish police
Looks like he won't have a choice anymore.
There's precedent for this.
The city of Camden, New Jersey, plagued with one of the worst drug-gang murder rates in the country along with police corruption, disbanded and reorganized its police department in 2013. The results seem to have proven satisfactory as far as policing is concerned. However, the force is larger, less representative of the city's residents, the reorganization was done illegally, Camden residents didn't have much say in the process, and it broke the union (for better and worse). The biggest positive step seems to have been getting more officers out of their cars and away from desks, and onto the streets. The change in policing mindset might be confirmed with this recent news.
It's worth noting that this took doubling the size of the effective police force, and increasing the budget by over 50% total. These are hard and contentious facts for a populace to swallow when many, myself included, are looking for an overall decrease in spending and a large reduction in force.
I'm also obliged to mention from a Trenton friend that things in West Jersey are still very rough, and you couldn't convince the majority of Americans to live in Trenton or Camden, police reform or no.
That's unsurprising news in many ways, and I'm not saying that Camden's approach is the only one. There's vast unmet need for community investment and services - education, jobs, mental health, recreation, affordable housing, etc. Getting rid of the policing currently patching over those gaps won't be cheap.
Here's an article from Time from one of the council members about what they plan to do.
Woah. That's a massive shift in the narrative around these protests. You're going to have police departments across the country back on their heels running scared if that follows through.
eh
Minneapolis had massive scale rioting instigated by an oppressive bullying terrorist force resulting in their headquarters being burnt to the ground (the police department).
In certain other cities like Seattle, Los Angeles, and New York there are unprecedented scales of violence being committed by the same domestic terrorists and those may see reform, but what of cities which are predominantly white or have slighly more tame police departments which know how to de-escalate the majority of the time and only murder minorities at a more "acceptable" rate?
I suspect certain cities will see the complete dismantling of the police. Others will see massive reform through the adoption of policies such as rules of engagement (only meet force with an equivalent level of force), independent investigation, policies prohibiting body cams from ever being turned off, etc. but many will likely see no changes because while there is pressure from protesters, there is no real consequence to speak of.
If police departments start getting thrown out wholesale and rebuilt from the ground up, you can bet your ass the bad cops are going to be running scared. In their minds that was an impossibility, and now they know it's on the table.
We don't need to get them all. We just need to clear out the worst and put the fear into the rest of them, then be able to follow through completely with investigations/prosecutions. The rest will attend to itself with time. It's not perfect, but then no solution to any complex real world problem is ever close to perfect. It's just small steps forward.
I agree that I think we are going to see some sort of systematic change. I am just urging people to not give up the fight or be complacent in the results because a few bad apples throughout the US have reformed in some fashion. Keep pushing in your community until you see the change we deserve.
I think this wrongly implies they are self-aware. Sadly them seem to see little to no harm in their actions or how they carry them out. It's far more common for an individual to justify their bad actions than to own up to them, compound that with a union and legal precedent that backs them up on this and they have little reason to ever self-reflect on the fact.
Huh. You could be right, perhaps I'm giving them too much credit.
Cheers erupted in the crowd as suspended BPD police officers Robert McCabe and Aaron Torgalski leave the Erie County District Attorney's Office after being arraigned on one count each of second degree assault.
The two officers they applauded were the ones that nearly killed the 75 year old man the other day:
(disturbing video warning) https://twitter.com/jpegjoshua/status/1268719321662001164
Tribalism is an intoxicating, powerful drug. It's terrible, complex, and embedded deep into the human psyche. Countering it is really, really hard. That video exemplifies why we must try, everyday.
Even though I think those officers have done wrong and should be prosecuted, I can empathize that they're having a shit time right now and need some support from friends and family. What I don't think they need is a crowd cheering them and glorifying them, assuring them that they did no wrong just because they identify as belonging to the same Police Tribe.
Remember the child who was maced by SPD? Well the man who recorded this child has been denied bail. They were arrested outside of protests with made up charges.
Relevant: RCW 9A.49.020 - Unlawful discharge of a laser in the first degree.
I support jury nullification 100%, but don't think it's really a feasible option here. Our criminal "justice" system is heavily biased towards getting people to sign plea bargains, assembly line style. 90-something percent of cases never go to trial.
Time is on the police's side, and they know it. They can leave you locked up in jail for months, awaiting trial, and meanwhile you'll lose your job, get evicted from your home, and have no one to take care of your kids.
This is doubly true when judges are denying bail. That's unconstitutional and I hope to see lawsuits challenging it...but that also takes time.
Technically yes, but realistically not a great idea. CGPGrey did a short video on this topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqH_Y1TupoQ
Jury nullification still isn't truly a right given to the jury. It's not a power granted to them, it's only de facto.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/jury_nullification
It goes back to the earliest beginnings of common law, right along with the notion of property or ownership. It's not something that can be granted or taken away, it's an inevitable consequence of the fundamental ideas that 1) you can't punish a jury for their verdict, and 2) you can't prosecute a defendant for the same crime twice.
Basically we're stuck with it. People who have objections to it can complain all they like, but it's not going anywhere.
Statue of famous slave owner toppled
It's location and status has been updated on google maps and wikipedia.
EDIT: the only surviving heir chimes in on what happened.
The "the only surviving heir" part was apparently a joke, according to his twitter. Also, a second one has chimed in calling it cool too.
Wheels were already spinning in my head how a man who died 1721 could possibly have exactly one descendant. You'd expect more like a few thousand. Only a few of which still bear the name.
Surviving heir and surviving descendant are only synonymous under absolute cognatic gavelkind succession. There's plenty of other situations where there'd be a single heir.
You a CK2 player as well? That's how I learned about all the various succession laws the world over. :P
Definitely. :)
The "CLOSED" tag had me laughing pretty hard, thanks.
And this jewel of 🤦 and violence: Armed vigilantes defeat Antifa in Klamath Falls, Oregon.
And of course it was supposedly George Soros funding these busses of antifa radicals getting there. Because why not appeal to antisemitism while we're at it?
Colin Powell calls Trump a liar, says he skirts the Constitution, will vote Biden
Video: https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/06/07/colin-powell-vote-biden-trump-sot-sotu-vpx.cnn
As someone who was still unaware of the world at large during the Bush administration, how conservative was Powell? By extension, how radical is it for him to say this?
He is an accomplished general, very much a neocon foreign policy wise, but airs on the liberal side for many issues. He most famously was secretary of state under Bush (as you likely know), and was heavily criticized for reporting there were WMDs in Iraq.
Ultimately, in my view, he was a fall guy, as everyone in the bush administration went hard in the "Saddam had WMDs" belief. From Powell's history in Vietnam, and his general reluctance to get into conflict without "good reason", I generally don't believe Powell would have knowingly lied to allow an invasion. I'm much less sure about some other senior members of the Bush administration.
He also is considered to have developed the Powell doctrine, a rather notable development in US foreign policy under the Bush Era. Unfortunately, I don't think Powell himself properly applied the criteria to his own decisions.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powell_Doctrine
As you might be able to tell, I generally have a good opinion of him. I think he really tried to do the right thing, but was disgraced due to failures across the administration he was a part of. He definitely is culpable in those failures, but I think he got more blame than deserved.
Pretty good set of photos on Axios of demonstrations in a bunch of countries around the world: In photos: People around the world rally against racism
This video from Japan of protesters shouting "no justice no peace / fuck the police" is one of the most amazing ones I've seen.
Police in Japan tend to be extremely trusted by citizens, also the polar opposite of what the culture here in the US is. Hearing "fuck the police" shouted on Japanese streets is not something I ever expected.
So what's the context? Are they protesting about the local police or is this about supporting the protests in the US?
Don't know about Japan. Here (Sweden) its a combination of things - anti-racism protest + support for black people in the US.
Since racism is different in different places, black and white is complex to use - I think people up north included those protesting anti-sapmi tendencies (and Sapmi people are white) - at the same time Black Swedes are fairly new here and being the latest addition and enrichment to our shared society they get the brunt of the hit of racism with things like racial profiling, mistreatment and racist attacks.
But for many that racism hits people who look southern European, Slavic, Middle Eastern which is part of the protests.
I'm sure Japan has its own racial/racist divides.
Older article (Feb 2018) but on a subject that is rightfully getting more attention now. Also warning that this discusses a sensitive subject (rape).
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/albertsamaha/this-teenager-accused-two-on-duty-cops-of-rape-she-had-no
Laws in 15 US states recognize that sex between a police officer and someone they've detained or arrested cannot be consensual due to the inherent power imbalance.
That leaves 35 states where police officers can rape someone they have in custody, and use a "but they consented!" defense. Which creates a "he said, she said" situation, where one side is a "trustworthy" police officer and the other is a "criminal" or someone else who our justice system is otherwise prejudiced to distrust.
I usually prefer to go by numbers or other more tangible knowledge when reading the news. Do we know a general trend of this situation? In particular, what's the nationwide trend wrt.:
Legislative measures
Police violence / police instigation
Protest crowd sizes
Riot frequency
because I can't tell if social media is just getting bored of this stuff or if the situation is already cooling off.
On #3, I read this today: Protesters have been marching for nearly two weeks and crowds have only gotten bigger
Yeah, that's something new in America. People always seem to get distracted and back off. This has led to the idea that protests are a storm to be weathered and pandered to rather than taken seriously. Just once in my lifetime I'd like to see it go the other way.
UNCONFIRMED: NYPD commissioner, chief, and 300-800 police officers are purportedly resigning imminently
Door's to your left. Bye!
This isn't surprising given the crap the commissioner and mayor been spouting lately. They were already out. If 300-800 of the other officers want to take early retirement because the force is going to change into something they can't live with, that's fine too. The NYPD is almost 40k strong, we won't be missing the retirees.
More police enforcement disparity by race on display in Greensboro, North Carolina.
New York's curfew has been lifted a day ahead of schedule. The city begins the first phase of reopening tomorrow.
Was at a local protest, went well. A lot more people than I thought for my area and demo.
Yesterday on Twitter, a scientist posted a rough guess of viral transmission by the protests:
[...]
[...]
[...]
For comparison the US is currently at about ~850 deaths/week due to the virus. (Based on this chart.)
He revised his estimate today:
[...]
However:
Some semi-related news:
National Guardsmen begin departing D.C., capping turbulent week
The National Guard Is Reportedly Pulling Out of L.A. (LA Times has paywall, so linked LAmag instead)
Pennsylvania National Guard leaves West Chester University after student outcry
Marines ban public displays of Confederate flag
Seattle PD is putting up heavier barricades at the East Precinct on Capitol Hill, which is where most of the recent "riots" have been taking place.
Shockingly, they're being hastily assembled, and are not structurally sound
Here's moderately-disturbing video of a similar barricade collapsing last year, from Bumbershoot, a music festival here in Seattle. 4 people were hospitalized.
SPD is laying the groundwork for protesters to get crushed or trampled, and to have a victim-blaming "they shouldn't have been pressed up against the barricade" excuse ready.
Man drove into crowd, shot and injured one in Seattle
Fortunately, the man shot is in stable condition and will recover. He was very lucky to have only been shot in the arm.
Here's the shooter giving a thumbs-up to the line of police right before he's arrested: https://twitter.com/USSDrunkPOE/status/1269842432738246657
And here he is being arrested quite peacefully: https://twitter.com/sicykr/status/1269844100066545668
It's always dangerous to jump to conclusions in a case like this...but I will not be at all surprised if he turns out to be a right-wing nutjob who thought he was on a mission from god to stop antifa.
From this article:
I think you've confused the guy in Seattle who drove a car into a crowd of protesters on Sunday with the guy in Virginia who drove a car into a crowd of protesters on Sunday.
Super depressing that getting them mixed up is even a problem that we have.
Ugh, yeah, you're totally right. I don't see any news with information about the Seattle shooter yet, but there's a fundraiser for the victim that's collected over $150,000 already.
Alright, this is the right one - Nikolas Fernandez Held on First-Degree Assault After Allegedly Driving Into Crowd and Shooting a Protester on Capitol Hill
Doesn't seem to be any particular right-wing/hate connections, possibly just in the wrong place at the very wrong time, with a gun:
Yeah, the "wrong place at the wrong time, no ill intent" narrative is being pushed pretty hard by the people you'd naturally suspect of defending him, and I don't buy it. He certainly doesn't have the obvious KKK connections the guy in Virginia has, but...
You can see in this pic his gun has an extended magazine, as well as a spare magazine taped on to the end. That gives him somewhere between 30 and 50 rounds depending on the caliber and the model (I read Glock somewhere, which is plausible but I don't know if it's accurate). That's legal, under Washington state law, but really not something a security guard for a corporate-owned store downtown would reasonably carry.
Just before he's arrested, in this video you can hear him saying "I had to shoot somebody, they were trying to jack my car".
From the charging documents:
So to believe his story, he'd have to be driving to work with that loaded handgun just sitting on the front seat, with a round in the chamber (based on how quickly he was able to shoot, I don't think he had time to take his other hand off the wheel and rack the slide), while driving around Capitol Hill lost or whatever.
In what I struggle to believe is complete coincidence:
He's not a KKK ringleader, but I also don't believe he's a poor soul who got lost in the big city, ran into a protest because he didn't realize it was a protest, then shot because he was scared of a carjacking.
You can also see this in his body language as he gets out of the car: video
Super aggressive at first, looking around like "who else do I have to shoot?" and then pulling up his hoodie to obscure his identity.
Then, for someone whose excuse is that he ran into protesters because he didn't realize there was a protest...he makes a beeline straight for the street where the police built up their barricade and turns himself in. Weird that he knew exactly which direction to go in.
Honestly, this smells to me like he knows exactly what to say to be able to terrorize a protest and get away with little to no legal consequences. "I had to shoot, I feared for my life" is the same excuse we hear police use for unjustified shootings all the time.
edit: here's additional footage I hadn't seen before of where he turned the corner, a block away from where he ultimately came to a stop. this is not someone driving around lost.
The nexus between coronavirus and protests: The virus ‘was the kindling, and the police brutality lit the fire.’
[...]
On Friday, Seattle police committed to not using tear gas for 30 days
Tonight...they decided to use tear gas anyway
Military police humvee in Boston.
Parked in front of the Old State House.
Which was famously the site of the Boston Massacre.
(If you want to get technical, the massacre really happened at the nearby Customs House; the subsequent protest centered around the State House. The Customs House no longer stands, but the State House does, so it's the building most people picture in relation to the massacre. The old State House is also pictured in the background of depictions of the massacre and used every year as the site of re-enactments of the massacre)
Former cop tells his story