13 votes

Daily thread for news/updates/discussion of George Floyd protests - June 20

This thread is posted daily - please try to post relevant content in here, such as news, updates, opinion articles, etc. Especially significant updates may warrant a separate topic, but most should be posted here.

14 comments

  1. [4]
    spit-evil-olive-tips
    Link
    Nooses found in NYC park Is that how that works? I don't think that's how it works. It's a noose. It's a fucking noose. Besides that you can use a simpler knot to hold up a piñata, is their theory...

    Nooses found in NYC park

    He said officers asked him not to take any more photographs, noting the scene was part of an active investigation.

    Is that how that works? I don't think that's how it works.

    NYPD spokesman Sgt. Vincent Marchese later told Gothamist that a commanding officer believed the apparent nooses were actually "a nylon type string to hold a piñata."

    It's a noose. It's a fucking noose.

    Besides that you can use a simpler knot to hold up a piñata, is their theory really that someone had a party with a piñata, was conscientious enough to clean up the broken pinata pieces, untie the rest of it from the noose...but then too lazy to clean up the noose itself?

    8 votes
    1. Adys
      Link Parent
      That's like asking a kid "is your working theory really that your dog ingested your homework".

      is their theory really that someone had a party with a piñata, was conscientious enough to clean up the broken pinata pieces, untie the rest of it from the noose...but then too lazy to clean up the noose itself?

      That's like asking a kid "is your working theory really that your dog ingested your homework".

      7 votes
  2. [7]
    Kuromantis
    (edited )
    Link
    The US public's opinion on 'defund the police' Related: "Yeesh."

    The US public's opinion on 'defund the police'

    there’s some disagreement about what exactly the slogan means. Some activists actually do want to disband police departments entirely, while others argue that police budgets should be radically decreased, but not brought down to zero. But even among those who want to abolish the police, some say they want to do so over time.

    But while the slogan is suddenly everywhere, so far it doesn’t poll well. Four polls conducted in the past two weeks1 found that Americans opposed the “defund the police” movement or “defunding police departments” 58 percent to 31 percent, on average.

    Most Americans balk at defunding the police
    Recent polls asking people whether they support or oppose the “defund the police” movement or “defunding police departments”

    DATES POLLSTER SUPPORT OPPOSE
    June 14-16 The Economist/YouGov 24% 53%
    June 12-14 Morning Consult/Politico 28 58
    June 10-11 ABC News/Ipsos 34 64
    June 9-10 Reuters/Ipsos* 39 57
    Average (All of the above, this one's mine) 31 58

    *Question only asked of those who said they were very or somewhat familiar with the “defund the police” movement. All polls are of adults, except the Morning Consult/Politico poll, which is of registered voters.

    SOURCE: POLLS

    The slogan is unpopular with most demographic groups, too, with two notable exceptions: Black Americans and Democrats. In the two polls where results were broken down by race, Black respondents said they supported defunding the police by an average of 45 percent to 28 percent, while white respondents opposed it by an average of 61 percent to 23 percent. This is in line with other polls that have consistently shown that white people mostly see police in a favorable light, while Black people are likelier to have experienced mistreatment at officers’ hands and take the problem of police violence seriously. So what we’re seeing here may be another reflection of Black and white Americans’ different experiences with police.

    However, in those very same polls formatting not mine in this case, check the article , some of these policy ideas enjoy far more backing among the American public than the slogan does — though the level of support does vary pretty widely depending on the details of the proposal.

    For instance, when Reuters/Ipsos queried people about “proposals to move some money currently going to police budgets into better officer training, local programs for homelessness, mental health assistance, and domestic violence,” 76 percent of people who were familiar with those proposals supported them, while only 22 percent opposed.

    Overall, questions that seemed to emphasize how police departments would be affected found less support.

    Related:

    A new poll from the Kaiser Family Foundation highlighted many of the ways Americans are treated differently because of their race. A full 71 percent of non-Hispanic Black respondents said they had been subjected to discrimination or violence because of their race, including 48 percent who said they had feared for their lives. For non-Hispanic white respondents, those numbers were 23 percent and 16 percent, respectively.

    "Yeesh."

    2 votes
    1. [6]
      spctrvl
      Link Parent
      Anecdotally, I've had a couple of people ask me what I thought about defunding the police as though it were the stupidest thing they'd ever heard, and when I explained it in those terms, every one...

      For instance, when Reuters/Ipsos queried people about “proposals to move some money currently going to police budgets into better officer training, local programs for homelessness, mental health assistance, and domestic violence,” 76 percent of people who were familiar with those proposals supported them, while only 22 percent opposed.

      Anecdotally, I've had a couple of people ask me what I thought about defunding the police as though it were the stupidest thing they'd ever heard, and when I explained it in those terms, every one of them ended up on board. The slogan might be catchy and simple, but maybe we should come up with some different phrasing if it's alienating other people from ideas they already support.

      8 votes
      1. [2]
        SantalBlush
        Link Parent
        Groups who are left of center tend to be terrible at framing political positions, sadly. I suspect they worry that taking framing into consideration is deceptive, and therefore unethical, so they...

        Groups who are left of center tend to be terrible at framing political positions, sadly. I suspect they worry that taking framing into consideration is deceptive, and therefore unethical, so they will push what they feel is the most accurate description of their position, no matter how repulsive it may be to the public.

        5 votes
        1. spctrvl
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          It's one of most ironic tragedies of our world that the political movements most opposed to markets are terrible at marketing themselves. I don't think that it's an opposition to framing based on...

          It's one of most ironic tragedies of our world that the political movements most opposed to markets are terrible at marketing themselves. I don't think that it's an opposition to framing based on it being deceptive though, if anything it's saying 'defund the police' without any framing or context that's deceptive. Rather, I think that there's a tendency to think that our ideas are such an easy sell that we shouldn't have to go to great lengths to promote, explain, and frame them, and anyone not immediately on board is therefore an enemy not worth talking to, but it ignores the fact that most people are absurdly disengaged with politics.

          4 votes
      2. [2]
        Marijn
        Link Parent
        "Fund care, not cops", perhaps?

        "Fund care, not cops", perhaps?

        5 votes
        1. spctrvl
          Link Parent
          Definitely an improvement. Maybe, "From Cops to Care"? You'd even have some dumb acronyming options politicians love, like proposing a "C2C Budget".

          Definitely an improvement. Maybe, "From Cops to Care"? You'd even have some dumb acronyming options politicians love, like proposing a "C2C Budget".

          2 votes
      3. Kuromantis
        Link Parent
        Related: Bernie Sanders pushes back on idea of abolishing police departments Off-topic but this article from the World Socialist WebSite is pretty funny: "Based"

        Anecdotally, I've had a couple of people ask me what I thought about defunding the police as though it were the stupidest thing they'd ever heard, and when I explained it in those terms, every one of them ended up on board.

        Related: Bernie Sanders pushes back on idea of abolishing police departments

        Off-topic but this article from the World Socialist WebSite is pretty funny:

        Beyond the police officer pay raises, the mild reformist measures that Sanders proposes to “transform” or “redefine” the police department broadly fall into one of two categories: either they would never be passed by Congress or, if passed, they would amount to nothing more than “lipstick on a pig,” as the saying goes.

        The real significance of Sanders’ proposals is that he is openly defending the police against those who are calling for its “defunding” or abolition.

        There is nothing that distinguishes Sanders’ proposals from any other Democratic Party politician. Under the Obama administration, police killings raged in the US unabated. Obama responded to the killing of Eric Garner in 2014, a police murder that bears a striking resemblance to the killing of George Floyd, by making similar calls for “patience and persistence.” At the time Obama proclaimed that “this was the time” to “start a conversation.”

        The Obama administration proposed various commissions and bodies supposedly tasked with addressing police violence. Obama went on, however, to continue funneling military equipment to police departments and defending cops whenever cases of police abuse came before the Supreme Court.

        Sanders’ position boils down to an absolute defense of the police, which are an instrument of class rule. Police violence and police repression of mass protests against this violence express this essential role.

        Sanders’ attitude to the police, moreover, is inextricably connected to his defense of the state and in particular the Democratic Party, one of the twin parties of the ruling class.

        "Based"

        1 vote
  3. cfabbro
    (edited )
    Link
    3 articles from Minnesota: Group wants to turn burned Minneapolis Police Third Precinct into civil rights museum Protesters Demanded Police Reform. Minnesota Lawmakers Left Without Passing a Bill....
    2 votes
  4. cfabbro
    Link
    Black man's fatal shooting by white security guard at Tulsa motel leads to charges

    Black man's fatal shooting by white security guard at Tulsa motel leads to charges

    The guard claimed he shot in self-defense because he was being attacked, a Tulsa police lieutenant said. "You don't get to pick a fight and claim self-defense," he said.

    "Based on our investigation, we discovered that the victim was walking past the suspect's vehicle when the suspect emerged and sprayed the victim with pepper spray, seemingly without warning," the statement said.

    Straight and Carson got into a fight and Straight pulled out a pistol and shot Carson, who died at the scene, according to the police statement.

    1 vote