37 votes

AP sources: White House aware of Russian bounties in 2019

9 comments

  1. [9]
    Eabryt
    Link
    I'm so confused by how you can argue against this not being a big deal 1. If the president knew and didn't do anything about this that's a HUGE problem 2. If the president didn't know because the...

    I'm so confused by how you can argue against this not being a big deal

    1. If the president knew and didn't do anything about this that's a HUGE problem
    2. If the president didn't know because the white house didn't feel the need to tell him that _also_ is a HUGE problem.
    

    and on top of the above, he has done literally nothing about it since this information came out, which is also a huge problem. Even if you're getting reports that the intel may not be good, how hard is it for the president to just come out and say "Hey so we're still trying to figure out if this is real or not but if it is then we condemn it on the highest level and will look in to doing X, Y, and Z."

    I just don't get how anyone can defend this.

    8 votes
    1. [8]
      MonkeyPants
      Link Parent
      It's currently the top story (for me) on Fox News : "Biden accuses Trump of ‘dereliction of duty' over Russia bounty reports in 1st press briefing in months" I don't often see news articles with...

      It's currently the top story (for me) on Fox News : "Biden accuses Trump of ‘dereliction of duty' over Russia bounty reports in 1st press briefing in months"

      I don't often see news articles with titles critical of President Trump on Fox News, but when I do, it's usually about Russia.

      7 votes
      1. [7]
        ThatFanficGuy
        Link Parent
        You can therefore imagine the bullshit that's happening within the country of interest.

        You can therefore imagine the bullshit that's happening within the country of interest.

        2 votes
        1. [6]
          Qis
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          Hey, would any of you be able to describe why this is a big deal? Antagonism from and toward Russia seems pretty common, and I would expect military skullduggery to be a part of that... Are there...

          Hey, would any of you be able to describe why this is a big deal? Antagonism from and toward Russia seems pretty common, and I would expect military skullduggery to be a part of that... Are there particular deaths which will be reconsidered as a result of these revelations? I don't know what is expected of a president when his nation's enemies act like enemies. I assume this is par for the course; I assume we reciprocate. Is it just that the president was told and didn't make it a priority to publicize and address? It doesn't seem like a big deal when Trump continues to appear illiterate and insensitive to the things he is said to have been told...

          1. [5]
            ThatFanficGuy
            Link Parent
            When the angry dog barks at you from across the yard, you walk past and do nothing. When the angry dog rounds up other angry dogs to attack your children, you take a motherfucking pipe and start...

            I don't know what is expected of a president when his nation's enemies act like enemies.

            When the angry dog barks at you from across the yard, you walk past and do nothing.

            When the angry dog rounds up other angry dogs to attack your children, you take a motherfucking pipe and start swinging.

            There are many ways the President of the US could take this.

            If they want to escalate, they can strike on the Russian bases in the region anonymously. The Russians would know still, but you get plausible deniability so as to not be persecuted in the Hague. Or, you could place bounties back: childishly ineffective, but it's a method of retaliation, given the context.

            If they don't want to escalate, they could condemn these actions publicly and call out the Russian government for their merciless foul play. Economic sanctions hit Russia pretty fucking hard, no matter how much the government tries to play tough about it. Being cut off from the world trade a little bit did a number on the economy, so pushing in this direction will yield further results. "You wanna see what happens when you hire goons to kill our men and women? Buckle the fuck up".

            The problem is, Trump will never fucking do that. Any of it. He's a Russian pawn in the US government. He's the perfect candidate to let Russians get away from audacious shit like this on the world scene because the nation with the most powerful military sure as shit won't say a word to them. He's known to associate closely with the Russian diplomats, he can't hide the fact that Russians helped sway the election in his favor... fuck this, I'm not listing all of it: Wikipedia has a separate section for this in his presidency's category.

            What he also has is a history of saying nice things about Russia (while disregarding all the reasonably-upset and meaningful comments on the shitty things they did to the US), defending Putin from criticism publicly, and choosing to do nothing when time comes to push back at Russia. I'm not listing this either: just search for trump putin and trump russia. The fact that he chooses to invite Putin to the G7 meeting – from which Putin was booted for his "i take what i please" political stance on the international scene – because "why wouldn't you" is just one recent example.

            That is the important bit: Trump won't lift a damn finger over Russia's machinations and outright warfare towards the US because... who the fuck knows why he's so embedded with the Russian cause. Maybe they're bribing him, maybe they're blackmailing him. No sane US president would ever succumb to Russia's influence if it weren't something bad.

            It also happens to be one of the many bits of utter dumbassery of his presidence that baffles and outrages many. It would take an entirely different light if it was simply that Trump would not take action against Russia while handling everything else to the presidential par. That would be its own thing – but it isn't. It's compounded on by the rest of his ineffectiveness as a leader of the people – but now there are lives lost that needn't have been, to the profit of a hostile military force that Trump fucking knew about all along. He's letting US troops abroad be bullied and just sits there watching it happen. No sane, able US president would ever allow that to go unpunished.

            That is the big deal.

            11 votes
            1. [4]
              Qis
              Link Parent
              Oh gosh, I'm sorry, this is a very long answer for the timestamp it was posted to, I really hope you didn't waste very much of your night writing it -- but I knew all this stuff, most of us know...

              Oh gosh, I'm sorry, this is a very long answer for the timestamp it was posted to, I really hope you didn't waste very much of your night writing it -- but I knew all this stuff, most of us know this stuff. I should have formed my question more specifically... Outrage and bafflement are such common reactions that it feels baked in. The targeted killing of american soldiers does not seem like an audacious offensive, it's the typical outcome for the grinding of axes between banally evil governments. That we default to demanding retaliation (even against apparent enemies) is also broadly distressing. Maybe my question should have been, is there any aspect of this story which seems to be gaining traction that distinguishes it from any other hateful trump era nonsense?

              2 votes
              1. [3]
                ThatFanficGuy
                Link Parent
                I wrote it in 15 minutes. Did I not mention the fact that he let a foreign entity kill his country's soldiers and now passively refuses to do anything about it? (You could argue the semantics of...

                I really hope you didn't waste very much of your night writing it

                I wrote it in 15 minutes.

                is there any aspect of this story which seems to be gaining traction that distinguishes it from any other hateful trump era nonsense?

                Did I not mention the fact that he let a foreign entity kill his country's soldiers and now passively refuses to do anything about it?

                (You could argue the semantics of bounties vs. direct murder, but the intent is there: the Russian government wanted US troops dead, and they financed their intent out of their own pocket.)

                It's a big deal, even with the rest of the shit Trump has done, because his inaction is showing that he will let his soldiers be killed and abandoned. This is not a good signal to be sending to the outside world. "The US military may be mighty, but you can get away with staging the soldiers' murder if you bribe their president".

                Even if it's just Russia that he lets play fast and loose, I cannot express just how irresponsible it is a show of inaction for the rest of the enemies. Needless to say, the US has made plenty.

                Not only is he showing his country to be weak, he's also showing very clearly that he's ready to abandon the service personnel that needs his support most – the most vulnerable of the able – at behest of an enemy nation. He lets Russia get away with more and more on the world stage, and that endangers everyone.

                So far most countries choose to remain on the defensive against Russia due to a degree of political civility. Putin doesn't play by these rules, and if he's ever able to bring Europe and the US to his level, he can rightfully claim his position of a tyrant to be no worse than what others have in their countries. The US under Obama has shown that something could be done against Russia's aggression: like I said, the post-annexation sanctions hurt Russia's economy. Trump sitting idly in the White House while his own military is hunted for is the opposite of what Obama's administration was able to do: he's not simply doing nothing, he's allowing it.

                His inaction internally has already caused thousands of unnecessary deaths from COVID-19, let alone the countless misery of most other results of his initiatives. That's bad enough, in ways I'm unable to describe. His abandoning the soldiers is another sort of evil entirely.

                2 votes
                1. [2]
                  Qis
                  Link Parent
                  No, you had mentioned that... I think my hangup is just that I've lost sensitivity. I don't mean to deny what you're saying, but I also don't know where you get the energy to feel incited against...

                  No, you had mentioned that... I think my hangup is just that I've lost sensitivity. I don't mean to deny what you're saying, but I also don't know where you get the energy to feel incited against this as measurably worse than what has come so far. Even as the tragedies deepen I struggle to recognize the condition of his willful disregard as any more severe than I already did; we're off the charts, degrees stopped making sense a while ago. I am not sure how to compare the dangers of failing to maintain confidence in our military force with the threat of encroaching russian tyranny, and I'm exhausted by the question. Do you think this changes minds? Is that what we're hoping for?

                  3 votes
                  1. ThatFanficGuy
                    Link Parent
                    Burnout from the bullshit that's been happening around the world recently is alright. We're all there to some degree. But yes, this is worse. Significantly worse. It's a step deeper into the...

                    Burnout from the bullshit that's been happening around the world recently is alright. We're all there to some degree.

                    But yes, this is worse. Significantly worse. It's a step deeper into the political hellscape that is the US administration right now, but it is a step, and that should matter. Maybe you won't get any more incited to take action against it, but the situation must at the very least be elaborated upon and documented in public records.

                    As much as I myself am rather opposed to seeing one more fucking note about Trump's failure to be a human being, let alone a leader, I'd rather this shit kept getting reported on. If it doesn't, it creates an illusion of "everything is fine" when it very must isn't. As much as it pains me to be aware of the terrible situation we're all in (I'm Russian, and I'm still feeling the bullshit), this is better than the blissful ignorance that lets tyrants seize power under our noses.

                    4 votes