12 votes

Donald Trump's election power play: Persuade Republican legislators to do what US voters did not

13 comments

  1. [12]
    streblo
    Link
    For anyone who missed another insane press conference from Rudy, here is what Reuters is reporting is the general strategy coming from the Trump campaign:

    For anyone who missed another insane press conference from Rudy, here is what Reuters is reporting is the general strategy coming from the Trump campaign:

    A senior Trump campaign official told Reuters its plan is to cast enough doubt on vote-counting in big, Democratic cities that Republican lawmakers will have little choice but to intercede. The campaign is betting that many of those lawmakers, who come from districts Trump won, will face a backlash from voters if they refuse to act. The campaign believes the longer they can drag this out, the more they will have an opportunity to persuade lawmakers to intervene, the official said.

    8 votes
    1. [11]
      stu2b50
      Link Parent
      In case anyone is seriously worried, I really doubt the GOP will play that game. The end result of the legal technicality tit-for-tat is that Democrats "win", although no doubt the country will be...

      In case anyone is seriously worried, I really doubt the GOP will play that game. The end result of the legal technicality tit-for-tat is that Democrats "win", although no doubt the country will be on fire.

      If it gets to the special election wherein Congress chooses the winners, Biden will be the president. Why? Even it not being proportional when voting? Yes, because Pelosi can simply not swear in Republican house members. The Speaker swearing in all members is considered a formality, but evidently we're in the "fuck democratic norms" phase anyway. She can delay swearing them in until January 7th, after the special election, where the stacked House chooses Biden again.

      And beyond that, at any time during the counting of the electoral votes, the House can file an objection simply with 1 senator and 1 representative signing off of on it, after which the two chambers split and deliberate over the objection. If they cannot agree... nothing happens. There's no deadline for them to agree, no failsafe. Nothing happens, January 20th rolls around, Pelosi becomes President by order of succession. Congrats.

      Of course, in both of these the country is no doubt on fire by this point, and that's why when push comes to shove I don't think the GOP will play ball. It ends with a victory constitutionally for democrats, and the entire country is no doubt crumbling at the same time, which seems like a pretty fucking stupid thing to do when the existing governmental system is so favorably for the GOP.

      9 votes
      1. [4]
        Autoxidation
        Link Parent
        The House doesn't vote by members, it votes by state delegation. With the current makeup of the House, despite Democrats having the majority: If it came to that, Trump could absolutely win power...

        She can delay swearing them in until January 7th, after the special election, where the stacked House chooses Biden again.

        The House doesn't vote by members, it votes by state delegation. With the current makeup of the House, despite Democrats having the majority:

        Democrats have a majority in the House with individual lawmakers, but Republicans hold the majority of state delegations: 26 states have a GOP majority, 22 states have a Democratic majority, while there’s a tie in Pennsylvania and the Michigan delegation has seven Democrats, six Republicans and Independent Rep. Justin Amash.

        If it came to that, Trump could absolutely win power that way.

        5 votes
        1. [3]
          stu2b50
          Link Parent
          That's true, but again, only delegates who are sworn in can vote. Pelosi is not actually legally obligated to swear in everyone by January 6th. There is nothing that can stop the Democratic house...

          The House doesn't vote by members, it votes by state delegation. With the current makeup of the House, despite Democrats having the majority:

          That's true, but again, only delegates who are sworn in can vote. Pelosi is not actually legally obligated to swear in everyone by January 6th. There is nothing that can stop the Democratic house from not swearing in any Republican at all until January 7th, when it's all done and dusted.

          Is that breaking democratic norms? Of course. It's basically countering a soft coup with a soft coup. But it's a thing.

          10 votes
          1. [2]
            Autoxidation
            Link Parent
            Do you have a source for this? Powell v. McCormack ruled that Congress cannot refuse to seat elected members except for specific reasons enumerated in the Constitution.

            Pelosi is not actually legally obligated to swear in everyone by January 6th.

            Do you have a source for this? Powell v. McCormack ruled that Congress cannot refuse to seat elected members except for specific reasons enumerated in the Constitution.

            3 votes
            1. stu2b50
              Link Parent
              Yes. Pelosi can file a claim under the Federal Contested Elections Act, which then gets referred the House Committee on Administration, and then they "investigate" "election fraud" (which, the...

              Yes. Pelosi can file a claim under the Federal Contested Elections Act, which then gets referred the House Committee on Administration, and then they "investigate" "election fraud" (which, the Republicans started), and this only needs to hold them up until after January 6th ends. Election fraud, or rather a Representative not being the actual elected official of the people in the state, is a constitutional requirement of a Representative, so it is one of the reasons that a Representative can be pulled.

              7 votes
      2. streblo
        Link Parent
        As someone who is neither a nuts-and-bolts politics person nor an American -- what is the outcome of a Republican-controlled state awarding it's electoral votes based on number of congressional...

        As someone who is neither a nuts-and-bolts politics person nor an American -- what is the outcome of a Republican-controlled state awarding it's electoral votes based on number of congressional districts won? That strikes me as the only possible option being floated that may have enough of a legal smokescreen for the spine-challenged GOP legislators to hide behind.

        4 votes
      3. [5]
        Flashynuff
        Link Parent
        I really think you're giving the GOP (and our institutions / constitutional norms) too much credit here. We're MONTHS into a global pandemic that has killed hundreds of thousands of people largely...

        Of course, in both of these the country is no doubt on fire by this point, and that's why when push comes to shove I don't think the GOP will play ball. It ends with a victory constitutionally for democrats, and the entire country is no doubt crumbling at the same time, which seems like a pretty fucking stupid thing to do when the existing governmental system is so favorably for the GOP.

        I really think you're giving the GOP (and our institutions / constitutional norms) too much credit here. We're MONTHS into a global pandemic that has killed hundreds of thousands of people largely as a result of a total abdication of duty by those in charge (Trump, the GOP senate, and pretty much every GOP-controlled state legislature). Why would they suddenly start caring about the country burning down if they get to rule over the ashes?

        3 votes
        1. [4]
          stu2b50
          Link Parent
          Because they don't get to rule over the ashes. They lose in the game of Constitutional loophole tit for tat. That's why I'm giving them credit, because I trust in the GOP establishment's desire to...

          Because they don't get to rule over the ashes. They lose in the game of Constitutional loophole tit for tat. That's why I'm giving them credit, because I trust in the GOP establishment's desire to continue to exist. The battle of soft coups ends in them losing.

          And if they want a hard coup, then there's no reason to go through this song and dance, just bring out the tanks.

          4 votes
          1. [3]
            Flashynuff
            Link Parent
            If there is anything that 2020 has taught me, it's that there are no depths that the Republican party isn't willing to stoop to and that the leaders of the Democratic party are perfectly willing...

            If there is anything that 2020 has taught me, it's that there are no depths that the Republican party isn't willing to stoop to and that the leaders of the Democratic party are perfectly willing to bend down and compromise with them.

            Sure, Trump managing to pull off a coup is unlikely. But so was Trump winning in the first place! The fact that they're trying at all -- and are continuing to try -- should be incredibly alarming! If the Democrats are serious about going tit for tat, as you say, then they need to be going for the jugular on this. As does everyone else. We cannot sit back and rely on the political mechanisms and institutions that have delivered us to this moment to somehow save us.

            9 votes
            1. [2]
              Comment deleted by author
              Link Parent
              1. Flashynuff
                Link Parent
                those are always in order :)

                those are always in order :)

                3 votes
  2. Omnicrola
    Link
    Certainly learning a lot about the legalities around the electoral process this year. As a Michigan resident, if they where somehow to pull a rabbit out of their ass and overturn the result, there...

    Certainly learning a lot about the legalities around the electoral process this year.

    As a Michigan resident, if they where somehow to pull a rabbit out of their ass and overturn the result, there would be fucking riots.

    6 votes