21 votes

Ghislaine Maxwell found guilty of sex trafficking in Epstein sexual abuse case

18 comments

  1. [2]
    FirstTiger
    Link
    Now we wait for her sentencing. I wonder if she will be offered a lesser sentence in exchange for testifying against other associates of hers & Epstein, or if the prosecution will ask for the book...

    Now we wait for her sentencing. I wonder if she will be offered a lesser sentence in exchange for testifying against other associates of hers & Epstein, or if the prosecution will ask for the book to be thrown at her... I don't know if I prefer one way over the other.

    The Epstein saga raises a question in my mind- is it better to catch & declare as many people as possible guilty (risking some get fewer negative consequences in exchange), or to deliver sentences to the remaining 'big' actors fully commensurate to their crimes?

    3 votes
    1. moocow1452
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      Call me conspiratorial, but I'd wager anyone who is working this case is either barred from or is unwilling to open the can of worms of who was involved, because of the seismic geopolitical...

      Call me conspiratorial, but I'd wager anyone who is working this case is either barred from or is unwilling to open the can of worms of who was involved, because of the seismic geopolitical implications. Would be cleaner to nail her to the wall but not really pursue any further leads on this.

      7 votes
  2. [16]
    teaearlgraycold
    Link
    Are they doing anything to prevent her from mysteriously committing “suicide”?

    Are they doing anything to prevent her from mysteriously committing “suicide”?

    4 votes
    1. [14]
      lou
      Link Parent
      When have this conspiracy theory become a proven fact? 🤔

      When have this conspiracy theory become a proven fact? 🤔

      5 votes
      1. [6]
        Bullmaestro
        Link Parent
        Nothing's been proven but the circumstances surrounding Epstein's death are too convenient to be labelled a mere coincidence. We're talking multiple technical failures, camera breakdowns and...

        Nothing's been proven but the circumstances surrounding Epstein's death are too convenient to be labelled a mere coincidence. We're talking multiple technical failures, camera breakdowns and personnel fuck-ups which allowed Epstein to hang himself when he shouldn't have even had access to anything that would've allowed him to harm himself or other prisoners.

        Seemed like a perfect set of circumstances that would allow a hitman to sneak in unnoticed and murder their target.

        And why would anyone want to off Epstein? Not necessarily because he was a serial child sex trafficker, but rather because he potentially had a lot of dirt on a lot of very powerful people. I mean out of the many people that socialite had connections with, Ghislaine Maxwell and Prince Andrew seems to be the only ones that they're really gunning for.

        6 votes
        1. [4]
          lou
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          I see. So, in sum, a conspiracy theory. No? I mean, I know about the Epstein's... But this is very much a conspiracy theory in my view.

          I see. So, in sum, a conspiracy theory. No?

          I mean, I know about the Epstein's... But this is very much a conspiracy theory in my view.

          3 votes
          1. Tardigrade
            Link Parent
            Yeah and the universe has definitely had weirder coincidences happen but it's a conspiracy theory with more weight behind it than most of them.

            Yeah and the universe has definitely had weirder coincidences happen but it's a conspiracy theory with more weight behind it than most of them.

            3 votes
          2. [2]
            NoblePath
            Link Parent
            Well, based on your (apparently, and sadly mainstream) definition, maybe. As others have pointed out, Epstein was no ordinary inmate. While prisons do suffer from incompetence and indifference,...

            conspiracy theory. No?

            Well, based on your (apparently, and sadly mainstream) definition, maybe.

            As others have pointed out, Epstein was no ordinary inmate. While prisons do suffer from incompetence and indifference, parts of them work quite efficiently. And the ones with which I have worked, suicide and prisoner on prisoner violenece was minimal. More info This is especially so when circumstances are extraordinary, as the most competent and most dedicated (and best compensated) are called upon to supervise.

            There are certainly folks with extraordinary means and motivation to keep someone like epstein quiet. And suspicious assassinations in prisin do happen. Malcom X’s accused assassins were apperantly wrongly convicted.

            The challenging question is determining improbablility. Was it more improbable that a group of black men had incurable diseases or that the federal government was giving them placebo treatment and studying them? Is it more improbable that us foreign agents are suffering attacks from an unknown weapon, suffering some mass psychosis, or making up stories? Is it more improbable that a contagious virus that first showed up in a city with a lab studying that virus accidentally leaked from that lab, or that it jumped from some animal that no-one has identified? How improbable is it that the CIA dosed unwitting san franciscans with LSD? How improbable is it that Republican leaders lied to congress about the existence of an active wmd threat in Iraq?

            I could go on, the point being that powerful actors do use their positions to carry out and cover up clandestine acts to the detriment of an unwitting citizenry in the real world. To simply dismiss thoughtful inquiries into the mainstream narrative is unhelpful at best. Skepticism of narratives that mitigate risk of damages to the entrenched is the only rational approach.

            1 vote
            1. lou
              Link Parent
              I'm actually of the opinion that conspiracy theories are generally taken very seriously by a huge and growing part of the world's population. I do believe that is largely a negative phenomenon,...

              I'm actually of the opinion that conspiracy theories are generally taken very seriously by a huge and growing part of the world's population. I do believe that is largely a negative phenomenon, though.

              2 votes
        2. babypuncher
          Link Parent
          I do not think it's a coincidence, but I also do not think it is a conspiracy. I think the easiest explanation is that Epstein paid off the right people to make his suicide possible.

          I do not think it's a coincidence, but I also do not think it is a conspiracy. I think the easiest explanation is that Epstein paid off the right people to make his suicide possible.

          1 vote
      2. [6]
        NoblePath
        Link Parent
        Please define the term “conspiracy theory.”

        Please define the term “conspiracy theory.”

        2 votes
        1. [5]
          lou
          Link Parent
          I don't think I can do any better than Wikipedia.

          I don't think I can do any better than Wikipedia.

          A conspiracy theory is an explanation for an event or situation that invokes a conspiracy by sinister and powerful groups, often political in motivation, when other explanations are more probable. The term has a negative connotation, implying that the appeal to a conspiracy is based on prejudice or insufficient evidence. A conspiracy theory is not the same as a conspiracy; instead, it refers to a hypothesized conspiracy with specific characteristics, such as an opposition to the mainstream consensus among those people (such as scientists or historians) who are qualified to evaluate its accuracy.

          2 votes
          1. [3]
            MimicSquid
            Link Parent
            This is the bit that becomes difficult in this situation. Is it more probable that someone who knew many secrets about powerful people killed himself all on his own despite many layers of...

            ...when other explanations are more probable...

            This is the bit that becomes difficult in this situation. Is it more probable that someone who knew many secrets about powerful people killed himself all on his own despite many layers of prevention designed to stop exactly that, or that someone with power over the system within which he was ensconced either had him killed or removed those preventative measures to make it possible?

            1 vote
            1. [2]
              lou
              Link Parent
              I think the issue here is underestimating the likelihood of incompetence in the prison system.

              I think the issue here is underestimating the likelihood of incompetence in the prison system.

              3 votes
              1. MimicSquid
                Link Parent
                Given the significance of this particular prisoner, it seems unreasonable to assume that we'd see the average incompetence of the prison system in this case, but it's true that I don't have any...

                Given the significance of this particular prisoner, it seems unreasonable to assume that we'd see the average incompetence of the prison system in this case, but it's true that I don't have any personal insight into how those sorts of incidents do or don't happen.

                1 vote
          2. NoblePath
            Link Parent
            Well, I am dismayed to read so dismissive a definition from so august an institution. Please see my reply to you other comment.

            Well, I am dismayed to read so dismissive a definition from so august an institution.

            Please see my reply to you other comment.

      3. teaearlgraycold
        Link Parent
        It's not. But if you're trying to prosecute (or defend) Maxwell you better do something to protect her in case it's true.

        It's not. But if you're trying to prosecute (or defend) Maxwell you better do something to protect her in case it's true.

        1 vote
    2. AugustusFerdinand
      Link Parent
      Yeah, they killed Epstein to show her what happens if they think she'll talk.

      Yeah, they killed Epstein to show her what happens if they think she'll talk.

      2 votes