19 votes

Psychopaths and narcissists have hogged the limelight, now i’s time to explore the saintlier side of human personality, say researchers, as they announce a test of the “Light Triad” traits

12 comments

  1. [12]
    patience_limited
    (edited )
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    Putting this psychology work in ~humanities, not ~science, pending adequate validation and better understanding of underlying mechanisms. The original paper lists so many different personality...

    Putting this psychology work in ~humanities, not ~science, pending adequate validation and better understanding of underlying mechanisms. The original paper lists so many different personality inventories deployed that it's impossible to assess what's actually being measured, and there's substantial evidence of over-fitting. Most importantly, the research was funded by a grant from the Templeton Foundation, and some of its moral attributions (e.g. correlating "light triad" with religion and spirituality) should be reviewed with that in mind.

    Nonetheless, the result that the majority of people (at least, among the populations sampled) really are well-intentioned is heartening.

    I don't know that the three traits eventually identified as "light triad" are true antithetical poles on the same spectra. Also, the research methods and data on both "dark triad" and "light triad" don't say anything about innate or learned positions.

    I can only say that more than a few "saints" of my acquaintance have had their halos tarnished as their wellbeing has suffered through prolonged contact with "dark triad" types, but not vice versa.

    3 votes
    1. [6]
      unknown user
      Link Parent
      How so? What changes have you noticed?

      I can only say that more than a few "saints" of my acquaintance have had their halos tarnished as their wellbeing has suffered through prolonged contact with "dark triad" types

      How so? What changes have you noticed?

      1 vote
      1. [5]
        patience_limited
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        As one example, a friend who's spent his entire career in non-profit work. I'll spare details because he's fairly well-known in those circles - he's been selflessly, tirelessly effective in some...

        As one example, a friend who's spent his entire career in non-profit work. I'll spare details because he's fairly well-known in those circles - he's been selflessly, tirelessly effective in some important state and national programs.

        He had his branch of an organization taken over by someone with all the hallmarks of a bonafide sociopath - constant lying, rules violations, petty harassments and manipulations, etc. My friend protested at being directed to commit a serious violation of Federal law (jail time if caught), got fired under false pretenses, and has a whistleblower suit pending. His reputation has been deliberately sabotaged. I say this not just because we've been friends forever - there's sufficient independent verification for a notoriously hostile judge to allow the whistleblower case to proceed.

        My friend has now thrown his hands up at the whole game, has become sadder and more cynical, and is going to work in the private sector for vastly more money.

        4 votes
        1. [4]
          unknown user
          Link Parent
          This is very unfortunate. The feelings of your friend are entirely understandable, too: it sounds like they'd put a lot of time and work into doing their best, and their prospects had been cut...

          This is very unfortunate. The feelings of your friend are entirely understandable, too: it sounds like they'd put a lot of time and work into doing their best, and their prospects had been cut down by someone who's simply incapable of understanding your friend's motives, in such a cruel way.

          I'm somewhat relieved to hear that there was no "rubbing off" of the worse behavior. For all the sadness and the cynicism, it sounds like your friend is still a fundamentally-good person, if put through a rough chain of events and is sick of the results.

          1 vote
          1. [3]
            patience_limited
            (edited )
            Link Parent
            Even after everything he's sacrificed, the private sector job is still involved with public services work, and my friend is excited to be working on his new project for the people it can help....

            Even after everything he's sacrificed, the private sector job is still involved with public services work, and my friend is excited to be working on his new project for the people it can help.

            I've had my own brushes with "dark triad" types - they're sadly concentrated in corporate management, and getting one fired took more out of me than I'd like to admit. I'd say explicit "no assholes" rules ought to be requirements for both public and private institutions, because letting sociopaths run free is a danger to any organization.

            But my experience is nothing on the scale of what my friend and others have gone through. The most conscientious and altruistic people are more prone to exploitation and malevolent action by the worst, because we tend to expose them.

            1 vote
            1. [2]
              unknown user
              Link Parent
              Agreed. The reason we don't see such precautions now is because, in my experience, most people have little to no experience with sociopaths and the like. Therefore, people are generally incapable...

              I'd say explicit "no assholes" rules ought to be requirements for both public and private institutions, because letting sociopaths run free is a danger to any organization.

              Agreed.

              The reason we don't see such precautions now is because, in my experience, most people have little to no experience with sociopaths and the like. Therefore, people are generally incapable of grasping the idea that, for some of their fellow humans, the same innate rationals – the rules of the game, so to speak – do not apply. The lack of empathy may be a difficult thing to comprehend, let alone work with when your empathy is fully-operational and will not let someone be "mistreated" – i.e., acted upon without said empathy – quite so easily.

              We've all met assholes, but those are generally people like us, playing by the same rules, and their acting may be ascribed to bad upbringing or a bad day. Those at the dark triad extremes are not like that. It's the opposite of how we dismiss others as "evil" as discard them as persons: here, we often can't let go of the fact that there must be something inside, when there's nothing.

              Also: consider the legal side of a "no assholes" policy. Would it be legal to fire someone simply because they cause social chaos within the company and prevent others from working effectively? It would in my company – but what about workers' rights and such?

              1. patience_limited
                Link Parent
                My experience was that the "asshole" at issue was charismatic, but incompetent, unproductive, dishonest, and could be proven to have violated multiple policies. Given the "dark triad" definition,...

                My experience was that the "asshole" at issue was charismatic, but incompetent, unproductive, dishonest, and could be proven to have violated multiple policies. Given the "dark triad" definition, I don't think people who fit it are capable of avoiding various rules violations; the trick is stopping them before they've risen high enough to hide or deflect blame for their compulsive malfeasance.

                1 vote
    2. [5]
      Algernon_Asimov
      Link Parent
      Because we don't currently have a ~socialscience group, I've been putting all the social sciences, including psychology in ~science. I've moved this topic there for consistency. One day we'll get...

      Putting this psychology work in ~humanities, not ~science, pending adequate validation and better understanding of underlying mechanisms.

      Because we don't currently have a ~socialscience group, I've been putting all the social sciences, including psychology in ~science. I've moved this topic there for consistency.

      One day we'll get a group for the social sciences!

      1. [4]
        Kiloku
        Link Parent
        Why separate? I think science as a whole would be better if the scientific community accepted that social sciences are as valid and important as the hard sciences. Encouraging people from both to...

        Why separate? I think science as a whole would be better if the scientific community accepted that social sciences are as valid and important as the hard sciences.

        Encouraging people from both to see what the other are saying, researching, creating and discovering would probably be good for everyone

        1. [2]
          patience_limited
          Link Parent
          For the same reasons that economics, philosophy, sociology and other "social" sciences can generally be grouped under ~humanities. There's no question that these are valid fields of study. The...

          For the same reasons that economics, philosophy, sociology and other "social" sciences can generally be grouped under ~humanities.

          There's no question that these are valid fields of study. The issue is that the nature of research into these fields involves variables so multitudinous, complex, and slippery to define, that the research doesn't necessarily yield to the standards of proof and methodologies that apply in more discrete fields.

          2 votes
          1. Algernon_Asimov
            Link Parent
            The social sciences are not humanities. They're more scientific than the humanities, involving data collection and statistical analysis which doesn't generally in the humanities disciplines....

            For the same reasons that economics, philosophy, sociology and other "social" sciences can generally be grouped under ~humanities.

            The social sciences are not humanities. They're more scientific than the humanities, involving data collection and statistical analysis which doesn't generally in the humanities disciplines.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outline_of_academic_disciplines

            1 vote
        2. Algernon_Asimov
          Link Parent
          I'm anticipating a separate ~socialscience group merely for the practical reason that otherwise the ~science group structure will become too complex: ~science.natural.physics...

          I'm anticipating a separate ~socialscience group merely for the practical reason that otherwise the ~science group structure will become too complex:

          I'm looking to remove one of those layers:

          That's all.