15 votes

A ‘yoga pill’ to end anxiety? Scientists find a brain circuit that instantly deflates stress.

18 comments

  1. [16]
    hobbes64
    Link
    This bothers me a little bit. Disclaimer so you don't think I'm a nut: Drugs can be lifesaving. Some allow people to live normal and healthier lives. Some are essential to keep people alive at...

    This bothers me a little bit.

    Disclaimer so you don't think I'm a nut: Drugs can be lifesaving. Some allow people to live normal and healthier lives. Some are essential to keep people alive at all.

    On the other hand, we are over-medicated. Some people take a combination of drugs and they would be healthier if they took none.

    So this sounds to me like "oh boy, people don't have to learn to relax anymore, or deal with their emotions in a healthy way. Instead, we can make money by giving them a pill that they have to keep taking forever".

    As someone who has an anxiety disorder, I would probably find this helpful. But still, it bothers me a little.

    22 votes
    1. [13]
      teaearlgraycold
      Link Parent
      We already have psilocybin, which can permanently reduce or eliminate depression and anxiety from one or two doses. Hopefully more people get access to it.

      We already have psilocybin, which can permanently reduce or eliminate depression and anxiety from one or two doses. Hopefully more people get access to it.

      14 votes
      1. [12]
        updawg
        Link Parent
        Do you have any evidence of that claim? Johns Hopkins says up to maybe a year and I thought I recently heard that studies were finding it no more effective than placebo.

        Do you have any evidence of that claim? Johns Hopkins says up to maybe a year and I thought I recently heard that studies were finding it no more effective than placebo.

        14 votes
        1. [10]
          teaearlgraycold
          Link Parent
          Personal anecdote. There’s another user on this site with a much more compelling story. I don’t know how it could be comparable to placebo. How do you do a blind trial?

          Personal anecdote. There’s another user on this site with a much more compelling story.
          I don’t know how it could be comparable to placebo. How do you do a blind trial?

          3 votes
          1. [7]
            updawg
            Link Parent
            Make them sit in a chair with a crazy light show going on and then have them walk through a hall of mirrors?

            Make them sit in a chair with a crazy light show going on and then have them walk through a hall of mirrors?

            3 votes
            1. [5]
              Minori
              Link Parent
              While that may be a weird experience, it would not be double blinded. Participants know if they have a placebo or not.

              While that may be a weird experience, it would not be double blinded. Participants know if they have a placebo or not.

              2 votes
              1. [4]
                DefinitelyNotAFae
                Link Parent
                I'm not sure that they necessarily would know if they have no experience.

                I'm not sure that they necessarily would know if they have no experience.

                1. [3]
                  Minori
                  Link Parent
                  I have never taken shrooms or MDMA, but I am very certain participants would notice. The FDA recently rejected an experimental treatment in part because the supportive studies were not...

                  I have never taken shrooms or MDMA, but I am very certain participants would notice. The FDA recently rejected an experimental treatment in part because the supportive studies were not sufficiently blinded: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/fda-panel-rejects-attempt-to-use-psychedelic-drug-for-ptsd-treatment

                  5 votes
                  1. [2]
                    DefinitelyNotAFae
                    Link Parent
                    No that's fair and I understand it but as somebody who has never experienced a psychedelic you could probably lie to me relatively successfully.

                    No that's fair and I understand it but as somebody who has never experienced a psychedelic you could probably lie to me relatively successfully.

                    1. Minori
                      Link Parent
                      That's believable. The problem is that if you had taken the real thing, you'd know you took the real deal which creates a placebo effect that's extremely difficult to account for. Blinding doesn't...

                      That's believable. The problem is that if you had taken the real thing, you'd know you took the real deal which creates a placebo effect that's extremely difficult to account for. Blinding doesn't work if either arm of the study knows what treatment group they're in.

                      1 vote
            2. vczf
              Link Parent
              Better yet, in VR.

              Better yet, in VR.

              1 vote
          2. [2]
            OBLIVIATER
            Link Parent
            Surely blind trial's aren't the only way to gather conclusive evidence about that kind of thing.

            Surely blind trial's aren't the only way to gather conclusive evidence about that kind of thing.

            1 vote
            1. sparksbet
              Link Parent
              Double-blind trials aren't the only type of study out there, but if you're trying to prove the efficacy of a treatment isn't just the placebo effect, it is quite difficult without the ability to...

              Double-blind trials aren't the only type of study out there, but if you're trying to prove the efficacy of a treatment isn't just the placebo effect, it is quite difficult without the ability to do a double-blind trial. It's possible -- no one's done a double-blind trial on smoking tobacco causing cancer, for instance -- but it's a LOT harder

              1 vote
        2. tomf
          Link Parent
          anecdotal, but I've been microdosing (50mg tuesdays and saturdays with 100mg every few weeks and 1g in a tek a few times a year) --- it isn't like I'm depression and anxiety free or anything, but...

          anecdotal, but I've been microdosing (50mg tuesdays and saturdays with 100mg every few weeks and 1g in a tek a few times a year) --- it isn't like I'm depression and anxiety free or anything, but there is quite a bit of an improvement over previous years.

          I'd gladly pop a yoga pill. :)

          3 votes
    2. DefinitelyNotAFae
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      This is one of those things where it's a really interesting discovery for neuroscience, but there is absolutely no magic pill to push this button that activates this particular circuit. It almost...

      This is one of those things where it's a really interesting discovery for neuroscience, but there is absolutely no magic pill to push this button that activates this particular circuit. It almost certain that any such pill would have some sort of side effects that may or may not make it ideal for everyone.

      But no one wants to write an article just about scientific discovery without wild hypotheses about future applications.

      10 votes
    3. Interesting
      Link Parent
      If this is going to be a PRN drug like I use Xanax, it sounds great to me. I sometimes control my breathing to reduce physical anxiety sensation when I'm unwell, but it takes paying attention to...

      If this is going to be a PRN drug like I use Xanax, it sounds great to me. I sometimes control my breathing to reduce physical anxiety sensation when I'm unwell, but it takes paying attention to it. Having an easier option that isn't as addicting as Xanax for those bad days would be nice.

      6 votes
  2. Carrie
    Link
    Reading the abstract of the original paper Here, this study was done in mice. I understand the benefits of using mice as a model system, but (without having read the whole journal publication) in...

    Reading the abstract of the original paper Here, this study was done in mice.

    I understand the benefits of using mice as a model system, but (without having read the whole journal publication) in a study about pathways that are involved in conscious breathing to reduce anxiety- I feel the mouse model may be inappropriate.

    For starters, mice use their olfactory system in critically different ways than we do - so I wonder how much they can even engage in conscious breathing as a relaxation technique, so why would we assume their breathing pathway purposes are conserved in humans ?

    Similarly, how do mice experience anxiety and does conscious breathing work to “calm them down”. Or at least, does this pathway, once activated, cause the same reduction in anxiety as some other activity (such as purposeful breathing) ?

    Perhaps this is explained in the methods, but I would still take with a grain of salt that conscious breathing for the sake of reducing anxiety is well studied in mice.

    7 votes