Hangover cure successfully tested on drunk subjects in Finland – dose of 1,200 milligrams of amino acid L-cysteine was found to reduce alcohol-related nausea and headache
When you have 19 people in your study, doesn't sound great for the significance of your results
When you have 19 people in your study,
The study ran into certain difficulties. Some participants weren’t able to consume all the alcohol required and had to be excluded, some had such high tolerance levels that they experienced no hangover symptoms; and some were sidelined because they insisted on topping up the dose by heading for the bar, researcher Markus Metsala told local media.
doesn't sound great for the significance of your results
I felt like this was even more key to the raising of eyebrows : Though, Wikipedia has an article section that cites a study that shows there might be something to the idea. In rats, at least......
I felt like this was even more key to the raising of eyebrows :
The researchers received funding from Catapult Cat Oy, which sells the L-cysteine supplements.
Though, Wikipedia has an article section that cites a study that shows there might be something to the idea. In rats, at least...
Either way,
some were sidelined because they insisted on topping up the dose by heading for the bar
The alcohol dose was 1.5 g/kg, which was consumed during 3 h.
I'm about 72kg, at the moment. For me, that'd be 108 grams of alcohol, or about 3.65 fl oz. For a 12 oz. can of 5% abv beer, that's only a 6 pack! Now, either I have a problem...or, that's a small amount to drink to get hangover-drunk from over the course of 3 hours.
20yo me agrees wholeheartedly 44yo me already feels unwell just thinking about it
a 12 oz. can of 5% abv beer, that's only a 6 pack! Now, either I have a problem...or, that's a small amount to drink to get hangover-drunk from over the course of 3 hours.
20yo me agrees wholeheartedly
44yo me already feels unwell just thinking about it
The density of alcohol is about 0.8g/ml, so if you're working with ABV you'll want 4.56 fl oz. - you're getting more towards eight cans in three hours. Or, to put it in my own frame of reference,...
The density of alcohol is about 0.8g/ml, so if you're working with ABV you'll want 4.56 fl oz. - you're getting more towards eight cans in three hours. Or, to put it in my own frame of reference, about five pints (British ones, 568ml).
Tolerance and age definitely come into play here - in my university days, I'd call that lunch. A bit over a decade later, I'd be feeling somewhat sorry in the morning, although it's still well within the realms of things that a good fried breakfast sandwich can fix.
I guess that's the key question for something like this: is it targeting "I feel a bit rough and want to get back to 100%", or is it trying to fix "I drank everything up to and including the blue stuff at the back of the cabinet and now I regret trying to get out of bed"?
Anecdotally, supplementing 600+ mg of n-acetyl-l-cysteine consistently reduces the intensity of my hangovers. I'm not a heavy drinker, and having just two ciders 2+ hours before bed will...
Anecdotally, supplementing 600+ mg of n-acetyl-l-cysteine consistently reduces the intensity of my hangovers. I'm not a heavy drinker, and having just two ciders 2+ hours before bed will significantly impact my mood the next day. Preemptive NAC seems to bring that to marginality. It also acutely reduces the intensity of my intrusive thoughts.
Regardless of potential as a "hangover cure", (n-acetyl-)l-cysteine deserves more research as an adjunct treatment for all sorts of neurological disorders. If this sort of study brings more funding for the discovery of its efficacy for OCD, cocaine addiction, and the negative symptoms of schizophrenia, that's great for humanity.
For some reason I never considered that there could be medication that reduces intrusive thoughts. I should definitely talk to a psychiatrist about that.
For some reason I never considered that there could be medication that reduces intrusive thoughts. I should definitely talk to a psychiatrist about that.
To my eye, only recently has psychiatry begun to confront the subjective aspects of mental health difficulties, and there are not many drugs on the market labelled for that level of specificity in...
To my eye, only recently has psychiatry begun to confront the subjective aspects of mental health difficulties, and there are not many drugs on the market labelled for that level of specificity in treatment. Best of luck.
Yeah, I don't think being a persistent daily user of any drug, prescribed or not, is best for me. I've used psychedelics to punch a temporary hole through depression and show myself what something...
Yeah, I don't think being a persistent daily user of any drug, prescribed or not, is best for me. I've used psychedelics to punch a temporary hole through depression and show myself what something much closer to normalcy feels like. Without the first-hand knowledge of what you're missing out on it's hard to really believe you need the change. A few months after I tried mushrooms for the first time I started exercising and quit smoking marijuana. Now I often get to feel as I did coming down off of the mushrooms, which I take as a sign that my baseline has improved significantly. I'd love to have a similar experience for OCD.
Anything but sleep to fix my fatigue. Anything but exercise to fix my fitness. Anything but portion control to fix my weight. Anything but moderation to fix my hangovers. There's an interesting...
Anything but sleep to fix my fatigue.
Anything but exercise to fix my fitness.
Anything but portion control to fix my weight.
Anything but moderation to fix my hangovers.
There's an interesting parallel between programming and life choices. When coding, you don't want to just work around a problem. You want to rework the program so that the problem no longer exists.
The program says 'yes' when it means 'no' and 'no' when it means 'yes'
Wrong: Record and hide what the program says, then reverse it and display that.
Right: Find out why it's inverted and flip the switch there.
I appreciate this type of thinking and believe that what you're expressing does have value. People often seek solutions to symptoms rather than dealing with underlying problems, especially when...
I appreciate this type of thinking and believe that what you're expressing does have value. People often seek solutions to symptoms rather than dealing with underlying problems, especially when treating the symptoms is easier or requires less of them.
I do want to point out, though, that such thinking can get dogmatic quickly in a really negative way, especially when applied to individual cases. Similar to what @mrbig is saying, human experience and biology is often significantly more complicated than direct cause-and-effect. For example, I've been dealing with and attempting to identify the source of chronic fatigue issues for years, and I wish resolving it were as easy as getting good sleep, for example. My root cause seems to be completely unrelated to sleep quality.
That's not to say that this viewpoint doesn't have value, and in aggregate it's largely true. People who are suffering from fatigue can usually help that by improving their sleep hygiene, for example, and such advice will likely benefit a large number of people in that category, but its utility doesn't necessarily scale down to individual experiences, which is how this sort of thinking often gets applied. As such, when I talk to people about my fatigue issues and I get some form of "well why don't you just sleep better?" as a response, it doesn't really feel like a solution but instead comes across more as a hollow, dismissive platitude thrown my way -- especially because I've taken a lot of efforts to do exactly that and it still hasn't resolved the issue.
I am sympathetic with your situation but that’s a weak comparison. We must be well rested to have a happy life. A good night’s sleep is most certainly necessary for that (more than that in your...
I am sympathetic with your situation but that’s a weak comparison. We must be well rested to have a happy life. A good night’s sleep is most certainly necessary for that (more than that in your case).
But there is nothing required or necessary in the act of consuming alcohol. It’s an entirely voluntary decision and most people can decide one way or the other with minimal consequences. In other words: drinking booze is not a requirement of being human.
That's a good distinction, and like I mentioned earlier, I think it's largely true, but it doesn't necessarily scale down to the individual level. There are some people who simply shouldn't drink...
That's a good distinction, and like I mentioned earlier, I think it's largely true, but it doesn't necessarily scale down to the individual level. There are some people who simply shouldn't drink as much. I have met many and even been there myself a few times! On the other hand, there are also people for whom alcohol use is symptomatic of something else in their lives. For example, the ACES study shows us that substance abuse isn't strictly an individual choice and is directly influenced by childhood factors:
Adverse childhood experiences have a dose–response relationship with many health problems. As researchers followed participants over time, they discovered that a person's cumulative ACEs score has a strong, graded relationship to numerous health, social, and behavioral problems throughout their lifespan, including substance use disorders.
I'm not arguing that people don't have any autonomy or responsibility in these situations -- only that it often gets distilled down to only that and ignores other components, many of which aren't obvious or seem counterintuitive to common sense.
You're right. While writing it out I realized it was too simplistic to be a bulletproof ideology. I've been conditioned by the internet to make bold, less than perfect declarations to get feedback...
You're right. While writing it out I realized it was too simplistic to be a bulletproof ideology. I've been conditioned by the internet to make bold, less than perfect declarations to get feedback on thoughts I have that I'm not completely happy with. I can probably be more direct on tildes, though.
I think your "Find out why it's inverted and flip the switch there" assessment is right on the money! We should always be seeking out underlying causes, and I appreciate you advocating for that. I...
I think your "Find out why it's inverted and flip the switch there" assessment is right on the money! We should always be seeking out underlying causes, and I appreciate you advocating for that. I just felt it necessary to point out that the cause for any given switch's issue isn't always an obvious one.
When you have 19 people in your study,
doesn't sound great for the significance of your results
I felt like this was even more key to the raising of eyebrows :
Though, Wikipedia has an article section that cites a study that shows there might be something to the idea. In rats, at least...
Either way,
I wanna hang out with those people.
EDIT:
Also, from the study,
I'm about 72kg, at the moment. For me, that'd be 108 grams of alcohol, or about 3.65 fl oz. For a 12 oz. can of 5% abv beer, that's only a 6 pack! Now, either I have a problem...or, that's a small amount to drink to get hangover-drunk from over the course of 3 hours.
20yo me agrees wholeheartedly
44yo me already feels unwell just thinking about it
The density of alcohol is about 0.8g/ml, so if you're working with ABV you'll want 4.56 fl oz. - you're getting more towards eight cans in three hours. Or, to put it in my own frame of reference, about five pints (British ones, 568ml).
Tolerance and age definitely come into play here - in my university days, I'd call that lunch. A bit over a decade later, I'd be feeling somewhat sorry in the morning, although it's still well within the realms of things that a good fried breakfast sandwich can fix.
I guess that's the key question for something like this: is it targeting "I feel a bit rough and want to get back to 100%", or is it trying to fix "I drank everything up to and including the blue stuff at the back of the cabinet and now I regret trying to get out of bed"?
Not to mention the other effects this could have if it is successful. People could think its fine to drink more ignoring the longer term problems.
Studies like this can be viewed as essays that might attract interest for “real” large scale research. They’re not meant to be comprehensive.
And that's why you're reading about it in Bloomberg news instead of The Lancet or JAMA.
Anecdotally, supplementing 600+ mg of n-acetyl-l-cysteine consistently reduces the intensity of my hangovers. I'm not a heavy drinker, and having just two ciders 2+ hours before bed will significantly impact my mood the next day. Preemptive NAC seems to bring that to marginality. It also acutely reduces the intensity of my intrusive thoughts.
Regardless of potential as a "hangover cure", (n-acetyl-)l-cysteine deserves more research as an adjunct treatment for all sorts of neurological disorders. If this sort of study brings more funding for the discovery of its efficacy for OCD, cocaine addiction, and the negative symptoms of schizophrenia, that's great for humanity.
For some reason I never considered that there could be medication that reduces intrusive thoughts. I should definitely talk to a psychiatrist about that.
To my eye, only recently has psychiatry begun to confront the subjective aspects of mental health difficulties, and there are not many drugs on the market labelled for that level of specificity in treatment. Best of luck.
Ah, well at least I find mindfulness meditation to be helpful.
Yeah, taking NAC daily makes me feel slightly off-kilter, so meditation is my go-to as well. It's the best advice nobody ever takes.
Yeah, I don't think being a persistent daily user of any drug, prescribed or not, is best for me. I've used psychedelics to punch a temporary hole through depression and show myself what something much closer to normalcy feels like. Without the first-hand knowledge of what you're missing out on it's hard to really believe you need the change. A few months after I tried mushrooms for the first time I started exercising and quit smoking marijuana. Now I often get to feel as I did coming down off of the mushrooms, which I take as a sign that my baseline has improved significantly. I'd love to have a similar experience for OCD.
Of course, because drinking less is not an option :P
Anything but sleep to fix my fatigue.
Anything but exercise to fix my fitness.
Anything but portion control to fix my weight.
Anything but moderation to fix my hangovers.
There's an interesting parallel between programming and life choices. When coding, you don't want to just work around a problem. You want to rework the program so that the problem no longer exists.
Wrong: Record and hide what the program says, then reverse it and display that.
Right: Find out why it's inverted and flip the switch there.
It goes without saying that reality is not a computer program,
I appreciate this type of thinking and believe that what you're expressing does have value. People often seek solutions to symptoms rather than dealing with underlying problems, especially when treating the symptoms is easier or requires less of them.
I do want to point out, though, that such thinking can get dogmatic quickly in a really negative way, especially when applied to individual cases. Similar to what @mrbig is saying, human experience and biology is often significantly more complicated than direct cause-and-effect. For example, I've been dealing with and attempting to identify the source of chronic fatigue issues for years, and I wish resolving it were as easy as getting good sleep, for example. My root cause seems to be completely unrelated to sleep quality.
That's not to say that this viewpoint doesn't have value, and in aggregate it's largely true. People who are suffering from fatigue can usually help that by improving their sleep hygiene, for example, and such advice will likely benefit a large number of people in that category, but its utility doesn't necessarily scale down to individual experiences, which is how this sort of thinking often gets applied. As such, when I talk to people about my fatigue issues and I get some form of "well why don't you just sleep better?" as a response, it doesn't really feel like a solution but instead comes across more as a hollow, dismissive platitude thrown my way -- especially because I've taken a lot of efforts to do exactly that and it still hasn't resolved the issue.
I am sympathetic with your situation but that’s a weak comparison. We must be well rested to have a happy life. A good night’s sleep is most certainly necessary for that (more than that in your case).
But there is nothing required or necessary in the act of consuming alcohol. It’s an entirely voluntary decision and most people can decide one way or the other with minimal consequences. In other words: drinking booze is not a requirement of being human.
That's a good distinction, and like I mentioned earlier, I think it's largely true, but it doesn't necessarily scale down to the individual level. There are some people who simply shouldn't drink as much. I have met many and even been there myself a few times! On the other hand, there are also people for whom alcohol use is symptomatic of something else in their lives. For example, the ACES study shows us that substance abuse isn't strictly an individual choice and is directly influenced by childhood factors:
I'm not arguing that people don't have any autonomy or responsibility in these situations -- only that it often gets distilled down to only that and ignores other components, many of which aren't obvious or seem counterintuitive to common sense.
You're right. While writing it out I realized it was too simplistic to be a bulletproof ideology. I've been conditioned by the internet to make bold, less than perfect declarations to get feedback on thoughts I have that I'm not completely happy with. I can probably be more direct on tildes, though.
I think your "Find out why it's inverted and flip the switch there" assessment is right on the money! We should always be seeking out underlying causes, and I appreciate you advocating for that. I just felt it necessary to point out that the cause for any given switch's issue isn't always an obvious one.