Not linking to a news article as most of them are writing "accidentally" or "appears" or something about social media users. This is a Sieg Heil salute and I don't understand how anyone could ever...
Not linking to a news article as most of them are writing "accidentally" or "appears" or something about social media users. This is a Sieg Heil salute and I don't understand how anyone could ever interpret it otherwise.
I think news agencies are hesitant to ascribe motive. And motive is the difference between an awkward motion and a Nazi salute. I don't think it's accidental.
I think news agencies are hesitant to ascribe motive. And motive is the difference between an awkward motion and a Nazi salute.
Yeah absolutely. Libel cases hinge on phrases like "appears to have" or "seemingly". Unless Musk said "Hey guys watch this, I'm gonna do a Nazi salute" or actually said "Hail Hitler" or something,...
I think news agencies are hesitant to ascribe motive. And motive is the difference between an awkward motion and a Nazi salute.
Yeah absolutely. Libel cases hinge on phrases like "appears to have" or "seemingly". Unless Musk said "Hey guys watch this, I'm gonna do a Nazi salute" or actually said "Hail Hitler" or something, it would be risky to make a positive assertion that that's what he actually did. And there's enough in that video to provide a thin cover, like him saying "my heart goes out to you" and putting his hand on his chest before doing the salute. It's crypto-fascism, with just enough obfuscation that his supporters can reassure each other that they're not actually nazis while still basically being nazis.
For example I think some folks are arguing he intended a Roman salute - which are also pretty much fascist because we have so little evidence about the real salutes it's mostly fascist fiction...
For example I think some folks are arguing he intended a Roman salute - which are also pretty much fascist because we have so little evidence about the real salutes it's mostly fascist fiction about the Romans... So you know totally different.
This is what people meant by "how often men think about the Roman empire" being a red flag.
You are probably not wrong. Can't say I understand though because in my opinion it is a failing of the media to not write what they see here. Literally nowhere in the world, for over 90 years, has...
You are probably not wrong. Can't say I understand though because in my opinion it is a failing of the media to not write what they see here. Literally nowhere in the world, for over 90 years, has this been anything but a Hitler salute.
I assume Germany is international enough so for what it's worth, this would have been the end of Musk if he did this there. Probably avoid prison time on account of being a billionaire, but...
I assume Germany is international enough so for what it's worth, this would have been the end of Musk if he did this there. Probably avoid prison time on account of being a billionaire, but definitely fined and sued to shit.
This is the stuff that worries me. People are innocent until proven guilty. It should ALWAYS be "appears to be" or "alleged" or whatever unless you have undeniable proof. Many media outlets...
Can't say I understand though because in my opinion it is a failing of the media to not write what they see here.
This is the stuff that worries me. People are innocent until proven guilty. It should ALWAYS be "appears to be" or "alleged" or whatever unless you have undeniable proof. Many media outlets deserved to be called out during the United Shooting for not doing this, and I'd agree with calling any out who didn't in this case.
Having standards is the whole point. If the goal is to just throw them all out completely, then it's a race to the bottom from all directions.
Yeah, this idea that we can't call out blatant Nazi behavior because it might hurt their feelings or is somehow improper is a major reason why things have gotten as bad as they have and why the...
Yeah, this idea that we can't call out blatant Nazi behavior because it might hurt their feelings or is somehow improper is a major reason why things have gotten as bad as they have and why the Democratic Party and our institutions have been ineffective in stopping it.
Bluntly, screw you for implying I'm protecting Nazi's. It seems people are so casual to assume intent, which is ironic given that's my entire argument and the whole point of modern legal systems....
Yeah, this idea that we can't call out blatant Nazi behavior because it might hurt their feelings
Bluntly, screw you for implying I'm protecting Nazi's. It seems people are so casual to assume intent, which is ironic given that's my entire argument and the whole point of modern legal systems.
Since apparently it needs to be said, I'm not trying to protect Nazi's. I don't give a shit about their feelings. We have laws about how people are treated in media for a reason, and I see anything stepping on the removal of those laws as enabling horrible dictatorial practices just as much as dangerous people like Trump and Musk. I don't care "who's side" is supposedly saying it's ok, and I will always commend media outlets that follow those guidelines and laws.
The entire US legal system is being flushed down the drain as we speak. The fourth estate is powerful but it does nothing to fight back against it. The idea that journalism is noble died in 2016....
The entire US legal system is being flushed down the drain as we speak. The fourth estate is powerful but it does nothing to fight back against it. The idea that journalism is noble died in 2016.
They constantly use soft language even though Fox News etc. are still going full throttle on the propaganda and the left has no counterpart for it. Not even the center does. All major social media is owned by what are now oligarchs. Even news corporations are owned by the same handful of people. Yes the press should be trustworthy, yes there should be laws and there should be guidelines, but currently it is the losing side who are adhering to them. It is the far-right and fascist side that are currently winning in curtailing Americans' rights and they do it by using as toilet paper these guidelines and laws.
For all your talk about not making any judgements without a person explicitly announcing their intent, you seemed to ignore mine. It was not a personal attack. I held the same belief previously.
For all your talk about not making any judgements without a person explicitly announcing their intent, you seemed to ignore mine. It was not a personal attack. I held the same belief previously.
Yeah, that's basically what went through my mind. "Ok, we've done it, we have the power now, no need to pretend anymore." And democracy dies to thunderous applause.
Somehow, the masks hadn't come fully off yet.
Yeah, that's basically what went through my mind.
"Ok, we've done it, we have the power now, no need to pretend anymore."
Even assuming it's intentional, what trolls mean by it when they're trolling people is often unclear. It's vaguely malicious intent. We already knew that Musk enjoys trolling. What would the...
Even assuming it's intentional, what trolls mean by it when they're trolling people is often unclear. It's vaguely malicious intent.
We already knew that Musk enjoys trolling.
What would the non-trolling interpretation be? I don't think we can assume it's a sincere vow of loyalty to Trump. Musk will likely abandon him when it becomes convenient to do so.
Ok, while normally I don't argue with you when you take your standard milquetoast stance, I'm not cool with letting this one pass. It's not a "troll" to do an explicitly fascist gesture as you...
Exemplary
Ok, while normally I don't argue with you when you take your standard milquetoast stance, I'm not cool with letting this one pass. It's not a "troll" to do an explicitly fascist gesture as you stand next to the newly inaugurated president. It's a symbol of intent.
Yep, if you're standing up there and "joking" about being a Nazi, you're doing Nazi shit. "Haha I was just pretending to be a Nazi, I was trolling" is not any positive statement of one's character...
Yep, if you're standing up there and "joking" about being a Nazi, you're doing Nazi shit.
"Haha I was just pretending to be a Nazi, I was trolling" is not any positive statement of one's character or intention.
Musk and Trump are both trolls. It's a major part of their appeal. They've attracted a large crowd of people who like trolling. They do it to get a rise out of people, because they think that's...
Musk and Trump are both trolls. It's a major part of their appeal. They've attracted a large crowd of people who like trolling. They do it to get a rise out of people, because they think that's fun.
This doesn't mean they're not dangerous. Trolls can do lots of damage while pretending it's just a joke.
I don't know, were talking about the guy who bought Twitter and turned it into a cesspit of white supremacists. A guy who has retweeted Neo Nazis and antisemitic conspiracies. If it looks like a...
I don't know, were talking about the guy who bought Twitter and turned it into a cesspit of white supremacists. A guy who has retweeted Neo Nazis and antisemitic conspiracies. If it looks like a duck, etc. etc.
Trolls are not nice people. You can take what they say at face value because they are saying it to your face. Whether they are "kidding" is irrelevant.
We are what we pretend to be
Kurt Vonnegut
Trolls are not nice people. You can take what they say at face value because they are saying it to your face.
I don't know if it counts as being "in on it" or not, but both Trump and Musk probably have lots of fans who think doing this sort of thing is hilarious.
I don't know if it counts as being "in on it" or not, but both Trump and Musk probably have lots of fans who think doing this sort of thing is hilarious.
Things are clearly going to be chaotic and bad for a while. One thing I've been thinking about, is how much resistance will there be to some of the evil and insane stuff that these people try to...
Things are clearly going to be chaotic and bad for a while.
One thing I've been thinking about, is how much resistance will there be to some of the evil and insane stuff that these people try to do.
Let's say tomorrow, Trump and Musk start wearing actual Nazi uniforms and Trump orders an invasion of Poland. There will be quite a few people who say "Well, the Americans voted for this", I guess this is what they wanted.
But whenever I've challenged someone over some of the fascist stuff that Trump or Musk say, they always say "you're overreacting", "they didn't say that", "they didn't mean that". Implying that the voters didn't expect fascist gestures and behaviors from the president and his inner circle.
At some point, Trump voters either need to admit that they themselves are fascists, or they have to admit that they made a mistake and resist him.
In a logical world, yes. In the real world, they can say "sorry I don't follow politics that closely." Resistance takes additional effort. Admitting that you support/are a fascist are additional...
At some point, Trump voters either need to admit that they themselves are fascists, or they have to admit that they made a mistake and resist him.
In a logical world, yes. In the real world, they can say "sorry I don't follow politics that closely."
Resistance takes additional effort. Admitting that you support/are a fascist are additional effort. People are happy to just not do that.
It's intentional, IMO. They throw out a lot of dog-whistles - especially musk - with just enough of a veneer of irony or it being a coincidence that they can obfuscate if they get heat for it. And...
It's intentional, IMO. They throw out a lot of dog-whistles - especially musk - with just enough of a veneer of irony or it being a coincidence that they can obfuscate if they get heat for it. And honestly it seems to me that's how fascists operate a lot of the time - they speak in generalities or euphemistically so that the general populace can have that salve of "we didn't know they meant that" or "we didn't know they were doing that" when it comes to it.
I think musk is a lot of horrible things. I don't think he's a Nazi nor that this was some masterminded veiled thing. I'm sure i'll catch shit for that but it's this "AHHHH GOT EM!" behavior...
I think musk is a lot of horrible things. I don't think he's a Nazi nor that this was some masterminded veiled thing. I'm sure i'll catch shit for that but it's this "AHHHH GOT EM!" behavior that's led to most people being sick and tired of the discussion.
There's so so so many things to point to of people like Musk and Trump being fucking awful, but I highly doubt they're nazis. Racist maybe soon to be dictators, quite probably, but to be accurate, not Nazi's
Edit-
It also bothers me how the clips very clearly are cutting, purposefully, the part that might give some context to this. It's still absolutely wrong to do, should still absolutely be a scandal, but if people think this is the smoking gun it is, play the part where he says "my heart goes out to you", don't cut it out.
And yes, it's also hilariously stupid to call this "just a roman salute" given that's literally what inspire mussolini and eventually hitler.
I think musk has been in or around 4chan-esque political culture for a while, and it's pretty clear to me that he's been heavily influenced by the kinds of edgy, faux-ironic fashy/racist...
I think musk has been in or around 4chan-esque political culture for a while, and it's pretty clear to me that he's been heavily influenced by the kinds of edgy, faux-ironic fashy/racist dogwhistles that are popular in those circles. The kind of thing where they will troll and claim they're "just joking" and they're all "ironically" posting virulently racist and fascist crap, and then it eventually turns out that actually they're all just racist and fascist even if they weren't to start with.
So i've known many people who fit the first half of your description, and absolutely don't fit the second half. I've also known people who fit both, and it's why this whole thing bothers me....
So i've known many people who fit the first half of your description, and absolutely don't fit the second half. I've also known people who fit both, and it's why this whole thing bothers me.
Bluntly, I don't think musk has the integrity to HAVE a political belief as "complicated" as nazism or facism, and these kinds of fights over "if he is or isn't" often wind up in a finger pointing contest that misses the point and the true threat he poses.
Yeah, it might not have been clear but when I said "it eventually turns out that actually they're all just racist and fascist even if they weren't to start with" what I meant is that being part of...
Yeah, it might not have been clear but when I said "it eventually turns out that actually they're all just racist and fascist even if they weren't to start with" what I meant is that being part of an environment where celebrating fascism and racism are so prevalent, even when it's cloaked in irony and jokes, is gonna eventually lead a lot of people to just becoming what they're pretending to be. I'm convinced that "fake it til you make it" is a real thing when it comes to communities like 4chan. I was around a lot of that years back and it's toxic and I'm convinced it causes very real moral and psychological harm to immerse yourself in that kind of culture. I'm not fully convinced that musk would ascribe or even know about every facet of national socialist "philosophy" but if you tiptoe around ironically draping yourself in nazi ideology and symbolism while carrying out racist policies, you're a fucking nazi...
Hmm the only people I've seen a gesture that looks remotely like a Nazi salute is Laura Ingraham and Musk, and both were gesturing to Trump. I mean, if Obama had done this gesture "accidentally",...
Hmm the only people I've seen a gesture that looks remotely like a Nazi salute is Laura Ingraham and Musk, and both were gesturing to Trump.
I mean, if Obama had done this gesture "accidentally", it would have been a lot bigger controversy than when he wore a tan suit or asked for dijon mustard, but Hannity talked about those things for months.
Why yes, the media landscape is mostly unfair. This is not a new thing nor in dispute in the slightest here. For what it's worth it's not like this is going under reported.
Why yes, the media landscape is mostly unfair. This is not a new thing nor in dispute in the slightest here. For what it's worth it's not like this is going under reported.
It also bothers me how the clips very clearly are cutting, purposefully, the part that might give some context to this. It's still absolutely wrong to do, should still absolutely be a scandal, but if people think this is the smoking gun it is, play the part where he says "my heart goes out to you", don't cut it out.
This is disgusting but why do it now what benefit does he get with that? It has to be a distraction for something else, because if they are comfortable enough to go full mask off, we are fucked....
This is disgusting but why do it now what benefit does he get with that? It has to be a distraction for something else, because if they are comfortable enough to go full mask off, we are fucked. Maybe I'm still too optimistic
I'm almost certain he holds at least some white nationalist/nazi beliefs, considering he grew up in apartheid South Africa and has a history of promoting Nazi viewpoints on Twitter that don't...
I'm almost certain he holds at least some white nationalist/nazi beliefs, considering he grew up in apartheid South Africa and has a history of promoting Nazi viewpoints on Twitter that don't benefit him in any tangible way. I don't think Zuck/Bezos /other CEOs are in it for anything except money and power, but Musk seems to legitimately believe in these things.
oh I agree, specially after what he has done to twitter but I just optimistic enough that I think the majority of Americans still hate Nazis but for him to do it so openly on the biggest stage he...
oh I agree, specially after what he has done to twitter but I just optimistic enough that I think the majority of Americans still hate Nazis but for him to do it so openly on the biggest stage he has ever been on feel like he is baiting a response to distract from other things.
That's probably part of it, and part of the whole "distract the populace with culture war bullshit so they don't pay attention to how the wealthy are fucking over everyone". Unfortunately, I fear...
That's probably part of it, and part of the whole "distract the populace with culture war bullshit so they don't pay attention to how the wealthy are fucking over everyone".
Unfortunately, I fear that there is a substantial portion of Americans that either don't hate Nazis or sympathize with them in some way. I don't think they're a majority yet, but it's a large enough portion and could absolutely become a majority, and I think Elon is attempting that. If I had to speculate, I'd say 2 major factors are the deaths of almost all WW2 veterans and survivors, and the fact that a white supremacist viewpoint has always been popular amongst certain swarths of the US population, especially since white supremacists were coddled and accepted back into US society after the civil war.
Edit: Also, they don't even need a majority, just a large enough portion of the population.
I think that part of this and trump going out with banning transgender (or whatever he calls it) is testing the waters. They're more aggressive/quicker than expected to see how much pushback they...
I think that part of this and trump going out with banning transgender (or whatever he calls it) is testing the waters. They're more aggressive/quicker than expected to see how much pushback they get and if they missed any avenues of pushback the first time around.
Not linking to a news article as most of them are writing "accidentally" or "appears" or something about social media users. This is a Sieg Heil salute and I don't understand how anyone could ever interpret it otherwise.
Somehow, the masks hadn't come fully off yet.
I think news agencies are hesitant to ascribe motive. And motive is the difference between an awkward motion and a Nazi salute.
I don't think it's accidental.
Yeah absolutely. Libel cases hinge on phrases like "appears to have" or "seemingly". Unless Musk said "Hey guys watch this, I'm gonna do a Nazi salute" or actually said "Hail Hitler" or something, it would be risky to make a positive assertion that that's what he actually did. And there's enough in that video to provide a thin cover, like him saying "my heart goes out to you" and putting his hand on his chest before doing the salute. It's crypto-fascism, with just enough obfuscation that his supporters can reassure each other that they're not actually nazis while still basically being nazis.
For example I think some folks are arguing he intended a Roman salute - which are also pretty much fascist because we have so little evidence about the real salutes it's mostly fascist fiction about the Romans... So you know totally different.
This is what people meant by "how often men think about the Roman empire" being a red flag.
You are probably not wrong. Can't say I understand though because in my opinion it is a failing of the media to not write what they see here. Literally nowhere in the world, for over 90 years, has this been anything but a Hitler salute.
Media is already being cowed by Trump lawsuits here, so I'm not surprised they're being careful. I need to find a few more international sources.
I assume Germany is international enough so for what it's worth, this would have been the end of Musk if he did this there. Probably avoid prison time on account of being a billionaire, but definitely fined and sued to shit.
This is the stuff that worries me. People are innocent until proven guilty. It should ALWAYS be "appears to be" or "alleged" or whatever unless you have undeniable proof. Many media outlets deserved to be called out during the United Shooting for not doing this, and I'd agree with calling any out who didn't in this case.
Having standards is the whole point. If the goal is to just throw them all out completely, then it's a race to the bottom from all directions.
The proof is video and sound. I don't know why you want to be in denial about it.
Yeah, this idea that we can't call out blatant Nazi behavior because it might hurt their feelings or is somehow improper is a major reason why things have gotten as bad as they have and why the Democratic Party and our institutions have been ineffective in stopping it.
Bluntly, screw you for implying I'm protecting Nazi's. It seems people are so casual to assume intent, which is ironic given that's my entire argument and the whole point of modern legal systems.
Since apparently it needs to be said, I'm not trying to protect Nazi's. I don't give a shit about their feelings. We have laws about how people are treated in media for a reason, and I see anything stepping on the removal of those laws as enabling horrible dictatorial practices just as much as dangerous people like Trump and Musk. I don't care "who's side" is supposedly saying it's ok, and I will always commend media outlets that follow those guidelines and laws.
The entire US legal system is being flushed down the drain as we speak. The fourth estate is powerful but it does nothing to fight back against it. The idea that journalism is noble died in 2016.
They constantly use soft language even though Fox News etc. are still going full throttle on the propaganda and the left has no counterpart for it. Not even the center does. All major social media is owned by what are now oligarchs. Even news corporations are owned by the same handful of people. Yes the press should be trustworthy, yes there should be laws and there should be guidelines, but currently it is the losing side who are adhering to them. It is the far-right and fascist side that are currently winning in curtailing Americans' rights and they do it by using as toilet paper these guidelines and laws.
For all your talk about not making any judgements without a person explicitly announcing their intent, you seemed to ignore mine. It was not a personal attack. I held the same belief previously.
You can watch him do it. What other proof is needed?
Intent? Hence why everyone is being very careful of running afoul of libel laws.
Yeah, that's basically what went through my mind.
"Ok, we've done it, we have the power now, no need to pretend anymore."
And democracy dies to thunderous applause.
Even assuming it's intentional, what trolls mean by it when they're trolling people is often unclear. It's vaguely malicious intent.
We already knew that Musk enjoys trolling.
What would the non-trolling interpretation be? I don't think we can assume it's a sincere vow of loyalty to Trump. Musk will likely abandon him when it becomes convenient to do so.
Ok, while normally I don't argue with you when you take your standard milquetoast stance, I'm not cool with letting this one pass. It's not a "troll" to do an explicitly fascist gesture as you stand next to the newly inaugurated president. It's a symbol of intent.
Yep, if you're standing up there and "joking" about being a Nazi, you're doing Nazi shit.
"Haha I was just pretending to be a Nazi, I was trolling" is not any positive statement of one's character or intention.
Musk and Trump are both trolls. It's a major part of their appeal. They've attracted a large crowd of people who like trolling. They do it to get a rise out of people, because they think that's fun.
This doesn't mean they're not dangerous. Trolls can do lots of damage while pretending it's just a joke.
I don't know, were talking about the guy who bought Twitter and turned it into a cesspit of white supremacists. A guy who has retweeted Neo Nazis and antisemitic conspiracies. If it looks like a duck, etc. etc.
At best, this is a dog
whistlebullhorn.Trolls are not nice people. You can take what they say at face value because they are saying it to your face.
Whether they are "kidding" is irrelevant.
I really hope that isn't one of those fake quotes.
They only pretend it's vague trolling when called out on it. Everyone who's in on it understands it's not trolling or a joke.
I don't know if it counts as being "in on it" or not, but both Trump and Musk probably have lots of fans who think doing this sort of thing is hilarious.
Definitely, but I don't think that means they're just trolling. Part of the appeal of Nazism and fascism in general is "sticking it" to others.
Things are clearly going to be chaotic and bad for a while.
One thing I've been thinking about, is how much resistance will there be to some of the evil and insane stuff that these people try to do.
Let's say tomorrow, Trump and Musk start wearing actual Nazi uniforms and Trump orders an invasion of Poland. There will be quite a few people who say "Well, the Americans voted for this", I guess this is what they wanted.
But whenever I've challenged someone over some of the fascist stuff that Trump or Musk say, they always say "you're overreacting", "they didn't say that", "they didn't mean that". Implying that the voters didn't expect fascist gestures and behaviors from the president and his inner circle.
At some point, Trump voters either need to admit that they themselves are fascists, or they have to admit that they made a mistake and resist him.
In a logical world, yes. In the real world, they can say "sorry I don't follow politics that closely."
Resistance takes additional effort. Admitting that you support/are a fascist are additional effort. People are happy to just not do that.
It's intentional, IMO. They throw out a lot of dog-whistles - especially musk - with just enough of a veneer of irony or it being a coincidence that they can obfuscate if they get heat for it. And honestly it seems to me that's how fascists operate a lot of the time - they speak in generalities or euphemistically so that the general populace can have that salve of "we didn't know they meant that" or "we didn't know they were doing that" when it comes to it.
I think musk is a lot of horrible things. I don't think he's a Nazi nor that this was some masterminded veiled thing. I'm sure i'll catch shit for that but it's this "AHHHH GOT EM!" behavior that's led to most people being sick and tired of the discussion.
There's so so so many things to point to of people like Musk and Trump being fucking awful, but I highly doubt they're nazis. Racist maybe soon to be dictators, quite probably, but to be accurate, not Nazi's
Edit-
It also bothers me how the clips very clearly are cutting, purposefully, the part that might give some context to this. It's still absolutely wrong to do, should still absolutely be a scandal, but if people think this is the smoking gun it is, play the part where he says "my heart goes out to you", don't cut it out.
And yes, it's also hilariously stupid to call this "just a roman salute" given that's literally what inspire mussolini and eventually hitler.
I think musk has been in or around 4chan-esque political culture for a while, and it's pretty clear to me that he's been heavily influenced by the kinds of edgy, faux-ironic fashy/racist dogwhistles that are popular in those circles. The kind of thing where they will troll and claim they're "just joking" and they're all "ironically" posting virulently racist and fascist crap, and then it eventually turns out that actually they're all just racist and fascist even if they weren't to start with.
So i've known many people who fit the first half of your description, and absolutely don't fit the second half. I've also known people who fit both, and it's why this whole thing bothers me.
Bluntly, I don't think musk has the integrity to HAVE a political belief as "complicated" as nazism or facism, and these kinds of fights over "if he is or isn't" often wind up in a finger pointing contest that misses the point and the true threat he poses.
Yeah, it might not have been clear but when I said "it eventually turns out that actually they're all just racist and fascist even if they weren't to start with" what I meant is that being part of an environment where celebrating fascism and racism are so prevalent, even when it's cloaked in irony and jokes, is gonna eventually lead a lot of people to just becoming what they're pretending to be. I'm convinced that "fake it til you make it" is a real thing when it comes to communities like 4chan. I was around a lot of that years back and it's toxic and I'm convinced it causes very real moral and psychological harm to immerse yourself in that kind of culture. I'm not fully convinced that musk would ascribe or even know about every facet of national socialist "philosophy" but if you tiptoe around ironically draping yourself in nazi ideology and symbolism while carrying out racist policies, you're a fucking nazi...
Hmm the only people I've seen a gesture that looks remotely like a Nazi salute is Laura Ingraham and Musk, and both were gesturing to Trump.
I mean, if Obama had done this gesture "accidentally", it would have been a lot bigger controversy than when he wore a tan suit or asked for dijon mustard, but Hannity talked about those things for months.
Musk did this facing 2 different directions. It wasn't towards Trump or at least not specifically towards him.
Why yes, the media landscape is mostly unfair. This is not a new thing nor in dispute in the slightest here. For what it's worth it's not like this is going under reported.
The full video. Seems pretty cut and dry.
I 100% agree, which is why it annoys me when people try to edit things to make their position stronger. It weakens the discussion.
This is disgusting but why do it now what benefit does he get with that? It has to be a distraction for something else, because if they are comfortable enough to go full mask off, we are fucked. Maybe I'm still too optimistic
I'm almost certain he holds at least some white nationalist/nazi beliefs, considering he grew up in apartheid South Africa and has a history of promoting Nazi viewpoints on Twitter that don't benefit him in any tangible way. I don't think Zuck/Bezos /other CEOs are in it for anything except money and power, but Musk seems to legitimately believe in these things.
oh I agree, specially after what he has done to twitter but I just optimistic enough that I think the majority of Americans still hate Nazis but for him to do it so openly on the biggest stage he has ever been on feel like he is baiting a response to distract from other things.
That's probably part of it, and part of the whole "distract the populace with culture war bullshit so they don't pay attention to how the wealthy are fucking over everyone".
Unfortunately, I fear that there is a substantial portion of Americans that either don't hate Nazis or sympathize with them in some way. I don't think they're a majority yet, but it's a large enough portion and could absolutely become a majority, and I think Elon is attempting that. If I had to speculate, I'd say 2 major factors are the deaths of almost all WW2 veterans and survivors, and the fact that a white supremacist viewpoint has always been popular amongst certain swarths of the US population, especially since white supremacists were coddled and accepted back into US society after the civil war.
Edit: Also, they don't even need a majority, just a large enough portion of the population.
I think that part of this and trump going out with banning transgender (or whatever he calls it) is testing the waters. They're more aggressive/quicker than expected to see how much pushback they get and if they missed any avenues of pushback the first time around.