86 votes

Zohran Mamdani wins New York City mayor’s race, capping a stunning ascent

103 comments

  1. [14]
    DefinitelyNotAFae
    Link
    Rep Mikie Sherrill was elected NJ Governor and Abigail Spanberger was elected VA governor. Which to me looks like a fairly broad Dem coalition that hits both the anti-Trump message but also...

    Rep Mikie Sherrill was elected NJ Governor and Abigail Spanberger was elected VA governor.

    Which to me looks like a fairly broad Dem coalition that hits both the anti-Trump message but also focused on affordability.

    It can be done. At least in a year where Trump isn't running.

    To quote West Wing: What's next.

    51 votes
    1. [5]
      vord
      Link Parent
      Well, Trump is threatening to attack NYC and deport their mayor... so I'm sure it will be fine.

      Well, Trump is threatening to attack NYC and deport their mayor... so I'm sure it will be fine.

      32 votes
      1. [3]
        DefinitelyNotAFae
        Link Parent
        He was threatening it anyway. It didn't change the presidency but we knew that. So I'll take the wins I can get. I'm also watching a lot of young people being very involved in NYC and a huge...

        He was threatening it anyway.

        It didn't change the presidency but we knew that. So I'll take the wins I can get.

        I'm also watching a lot of young people being very involved in NYC and a huge turnout. That is promising. I'll be interested to see it out for NJ and VA too.

        40 votes
        1. [2]
          vord
          Link Parent
          Definitely. This gives me a glimmer of hope, but there's a whole second year here before we've got a chance to swing congress.

          Definitely. This gives me a glimmer of hope, but there's a whole second year here before we've got a chance to swing congress.

          12 votes
    2. [8]
      teaearlgraycold
      Link Parent
      To quote the East Wing:
      • Exemplary

      To quote the East Wing:

      43 votes
      1. [6]
        Lia
        Link Parent
        I'm feeling so compelled to mark this Exemplary that the only way I can avoid misusing the platform like that is to confess it in writing. (Someone can now mark this as noise.) Thank you for your...

        I'm feeling so compelled to mark this Exemplary that the only way I can avoid misusing the platform like that is to confess it in writing. (Someone can now mark this as noise.) Thank you for your attention to this matter.

        23 votes
        1. [5]
          TheRtRevKaiser
          Link Parent
          I've wished for a while that we had labels or some kind of reaction option for exactly this scenario. It's nice to have a way to tell somebody "that was a damn good joke" or "this pisses me off"...

          I've wished for a while that we had labels or some kind of reaction option for exactly this scenario. It's nice to have a way to tell somebody "that was a damn good joke" or "this pisses me off" or "I like this comment", but you don't always want to clog up the comment threads with that kind of offtopic stuff. It would be nice to have some way of telling commenters that you felt a particular way about a comment, and it would be nice to be able to get that kind of feedback as a commenter.

          10 votes
          1. [2]
            vord
            Link Parent
            Tildes is designed to specifically avoid this kind feedback loop. There have even been experiments to not show vote counts. It really helps keep the place from being a popularity contest.

            It would be nice to have some way of telling commenters that you felt a particular way about a comment, and it would be nice to be able to get that kind of feedback as a commenter.

            Tildes is designed to specifically avoid this kind feedback loop. There have even been experiments to not show vote counts. It really helps keep the place from being a popularity contest.

            19 votes
            1. TheRtRevKaiser
              Link Parent
              Yeah, I'm not so much concerned about numbers being shown - I think it would work fine if it worked like Exemplary or other labels where if it reaches a certain threshold there's some small...

              Yeah, I'm not so much concerned about numbers being shown - I think it would work fine if it worked like Exemplary or other labels where if it reaches a certain threshold there's some small indicator that it's been labeled a particular way, or even if the feedback was just shown to the user. I just think it would be nice to have a way to let commenters know that their comment made me feel or think something.

              9 votes
          2. TaylorSwiftsPickles
            Link Parent
            I've also felt like this several times, both for the positives and for the negatives. Nothing I would describe as anything fitting the current labels, while simultaneously nothing I would feel...

            I've also felt like this several times, both for the positives and for the negatives. Nothing I would describe as anything fitting the current labels, while simultaneously nothing I would feel "only" deserves a vote (or the lack of one). On the other hand I'm also never expecting this to be a thing on tildes :P

            6 votes
          3. teaearlgraycold
            Link Parent
            Feels like the Facebook laugh/cry/angry responses that were added to the thumbs up.

            Feels like the Facebook laugh/cry/angry responses that were added to the thumbs up.

            2 votes
      2. kfwyre
        Link Parent
        This is hilarious. And also sad. Well done.

        This is hilarious. And also sad. Well done.

        6 votes
  2. [28]
    raze2012
    Link
    And this is the strategy I believe democrats should focus on instead of "appealing to moderates". Mamdami got almost as many votes in this race as there were votes in total in 2021. I'm pretty...

    The contest drove the biggest turnout in a mayoral race in more than 50 years, with more than 2 million New Yorkers casting ballots, according to the city’s Board of Elections.

    And this is the strategy I believe democrats should focus on instead of "appealing to moderates". Mamdami got almost as many votes in this race as there were votes in total in 2021. I'm pretty adamant that 2024 nationals were lost not because "everyone switched" (the numbers don't support that), but because some 4-8 million voters from 2020 stayed home. We need to Galvanize the voters with proper action and reform that they can get behind.

    On that note, I am a bit shocked Cuomo still got 41% of the vote. And maybe a bit more surprised that Silwa only got 7%. I know NYC is peak blue bastion, but did Cuomo just end up sucking all the R votes or something?

    43 votes
    1. [16]
      Minori
      Link Parent
      Dems other big winner in Virginia's governor tacked moderate for her campaign. She focused on kitchen table issues and called out her opponent for obsessing over trans people instead of real...

      Dems other big winner in Virginia's governor tacked moderate for her campaign. She focused on kitchen table issues and called out her opponent for obsessing over trans people instead of real issues affecting voters.

      Mamdani won in NYC, but a majority of voters also said his policies were unrealistic in exit polls.

      I think the bigger takeaway is that Democrats should focus on what's popular. They have winning messages that appeal to broad swathes of the US, and they should stick to them.

      27 votes
      1. [9]
        DefinitelyNotAFae
        Link Parent
        She's more moderate but calling the right out for being obsessed with trans people is the correct move. Giving in on trans rights isn't.

        She's more moderate but calling the right out for being obsessed with trans people is the correct move. Giving in on trans rights isn't.

        33 votes
        1. [8]
          gary
          Link Parent
          Her position is to let the local authorities decide how to implement bathroom and sports policies. That's often been framed by progressives as giving in on trans rights, has it not? Source

          Her position is to let the local authorities decide how to implement bathroom and sports policies. That's often been framed by progressives as giving in on trans rights, has it not?

          When ABC 13 followed up and asked if she would support a bill that would allow transgender women into female bathrooms and sports, Spanberger further explained her position on hypothetical legislation, stating, "I would support a bill that would put clear provisions in place that provide a lot of local ability for input, based on the age of children, based on the type of sport, based on competitiveness. Because certainly I recognize, I absolutely recognize."

          Source

          5 votes
          1. [7]
            DefinitelyNotAFae
            Link Parent
            Yes, because generally it is. I was speaking to her messaging not her position on the topic. But from what you're saying what I wrote stands and is pretty clear. What made you feel like asking for...

            Yes, because generally it is. I was speaking to her messaging not her position on the topic. But from what you're saying what I wrote stands and is pretty clear. What made you feel like asking for that clarity?

            Edit in response to your edit:
            That is a bunch of word soup and provides me with no clarity on her actual opinion, especially on bathrooms. I don't really need clarity on it, I'm not debating her or her position.

            13 votes
            1. [6]
              gary
              Link Parent
              Oh I might have misunderstood you. I thought you were saying that she wasn't giving in on trans rights, whereas I see her position as very wishy-washy. She, to me, sounded like she was punting on...

              Oh I might have misunderstood you. I thought you were saying that she wasn't giving in on trans rights, whereas I see her position as very wishy-washy. She, to me, sounded like she was punting on the issue (let locals decide) in order to not take a stance in either direction. I'm not familiar with her campaign though, so she may have come out stronger one way or another.

              8 votes
              1. DefinitelyNotAFae
                Link Parent
                I was saying the messaging of "stop being obsessed about trans people and wanting to check kids' genitals you weirdos" is the right one. You can do that without backing down on civil rights. I...

                I was saying the messaging of "stop being obsessed about trans people and wanting to check kids' genitals you weirdos" is the right one.
                You can do that without backing down on civil rights. I have no idea what she did, though that answer is questionable at best, it's also absolutely nonsensical if you try to actually parse it so I'd have to see what she actually thinks and does. (I also only abstractly care tonight. I'm taking the wins and then refocusing local)

                18 votes
              2. [4]
                Minori
                Link Parent
                Punting the issue isn't ideal, but she's infinitely better on trans rights than her opponent. If being wishy-washy on trans issues helps her get elected, that's fine by me. It's common for...

                Punting the issue isn't ideal, but she's infinitely better on trans rights than her opponent. If being wishy-washy on trans issues helps her get elected, that's fine by me.

                It's common for politicians to run on one type of messaging then do something different in office. The median voter is stupid, so getting their votes often involves some nonsense. Look at Trump's "speeches" which continue to draw crowds, somehow.

                1. [3]
                  DefinitelyNotAFae
                  Link Parent
                  You can focus on what is popular without bailing on civil rights.

                  Punting the issue isn't ideal, but she's infinitely better on trans rights than her opponent. If being wishy-washy on trans issues helps her get elected, that's fine by me.

                  You can focus on what is popular without bailing on civil rights.

                  1. [2]
                    Minori
                    Link Parent
                    I agree with you. The question is what does "bailing on civil rights" mean? She called out her opponent's transphobia during the race which is exactly what I want from politician. Her voting...

                    I agree with you. The question is what does "bailing on civil rights" mean?

                    She called out her opponent's transphobia during the race which is exactly what I want from politician. Her voting record on LGBT rights is also consistently good, and she was endorsed by the Human Rights Campaign: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abigail_Spanberger#LGBT_rights

                    1 vote
                    1. DefinitelyNotAFae
                      Link Parent
                      I genuinely am going to continue not looking her up and getting into her specifics. I don't really care except in the most abstract sense. But I am tired of trans rights not being considered "real...

                      I genuinely am going to continue not looking her up and getting into her specifics. I don't really care except in the most abstract sense.

                      But I am tired of trans rights not being considered "real issues." And I'm not ok with "wishy washy" messaging on people having equal rights. I don't think the messaging is that difficult. I think they waffle because they don't have a firm stand. I take the compromises when needed and continue to push for better.

      2. [2]
        raze2012
        Link Parent
        "Kitchen Table issues" is a step up from 2024, so I'll take it. Her website lists healthcare, education, the economy, and jobs. What I could skim from Harris only mentioned Healtchare (and economy...

        called out her opponent for obsessing over trans people instead of real issues affecting voters.

        "Kitchen Table issues" is a step up from 2024, so I'll take it. Her website lists healthcare, education, the economy, and jobs. What I could skim from Harris only mentioned Healtchare (and economy was "we have strong jobs!". That aged well).

        I want a more radical approach, but the very least I want is for politicians to realize the realities and at least be ready with high level plans to address them.

        but a majority of voters also said his policies were unrealistic in exit polls.

        I don't think I can name a single policy maker who didn't make unrealistic promises in the campaign. It's a sad fact of life, but you do need to overpromise to energize rather than say "well I'll see if I can get bus fare down a dollar". Shoot for the stars, say you did a bangup job if you land on the moon.

        13 votes
        1. JCPhoenix
          Link Parent
          Agreed. Not that I think there's ever been a time, at least in my lifetime, when voters were policy wonks, but we are way past the age of trying to explain complex issues to voters' "simple"...

          Agreed. Not that I think there's ever been a time, at least in my lifetime, when voters were policy wonks, but we are way past the age of trying to explain complex issues to voters' "simple" questions. "What will you do about affordable housing?" cannot be met with wishy-washiness and how it's a complex issue, that we can't do such because of these regulations and yadda yadda. Just say "We're gonna build more housing...and institute rent control!"

          I hang out in some other places online that are a bit more wonkish (and out of touch and even privileged) and I'm often thinking. "Man, I'm glad y'all aren't running for office; because you'd never win, even if your ideas are good..."

          We've seen time and time again, through Trump, that saying "I'm gonna bring egg prices and grocery prices down!" and "I'm gonna bring manufacturing jobs back to America!" is a winning strategy, even if the plan to get there is muddled or doesn't even exist and will never happen.

          I think rent control is an idiotic idea. But if that's what gets people out to vote, then that's what needs to be said. Voters aren't (complete) idiots. We know that politicians can never deliver on everything that's promised. We'll still be disappointed. But we need to win elections to affect any amount of change in the direction we want. Again, look at Trump and Republicans. You'd think they had the Mandate of Heaven given the heinous, destructive things they're doing. But obviously they don't. They can't even get a budget passed in Congress without Democrats' support. Even with control of both chambers.

          Voting is vibes-based. And if a candidate brings good vibes, people will vote for them.

          14 votes
      3. [4]
        smiles134
        Link Parent
        Spanberger was uncontested as the Democrat candidate, so we didn't really have a chance to see if someone left of her could win. I live in the very blue Northern Virginia region and I know a lot...

        Spanberger was uncontested as the Democrat candidate, so we didn't really have a chance to see if someone left of her could win. I live in the very blue Northern Virginia region and I know a lot of people who voted for her simply because the other option was so much worse.

        8 votes
        1. [3]
          DefinitelyNotAFae
          Link Parent
          On election day it's often harm reduction. Folks need to be more active during the primary/campaign to shift the narrative. (Also more active on local levels in general)

          On election day it's often harm reduction. Folks need to be more active during the primary/campaign to shift the narrative. (Also more active on local levels in general)

          3 votes
          1. [2]
            smiles134
            Link Parent
            That's what I'm saying though, there was no actual primary for Spanberger. She ran unopposed for the nomination.

            That's what I'm saying though, there was no actual primary for Spanberger. She ran unopposed for the nomination.

            1 vote
            1. DefinitelyNotAFae
              Link Parent
              I know, and I'm saying the groundwork for changing that in four years starts now.

              I know, and I'm saying the groundwork for changing that in four years starts now.

              2 votes
    2. vord
      Link Parent
      And that's why Bernie would have won in 2016.

      I believe democrats should focus on instead of "appealing to moderates"

      And that's why Bernie would have won in 2016.

      17 votes
    3. DefinitelyNotAFae
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      Basically. Cuomo got endorsed by Trump and Miller so he probably got the "Mamdani is too radical" vote and the MAGA vote where Sliwa got the classical Republican (and maybe some of the "too...

      Basically. Cuomo got endorsed by Trump and Miller so he probably got the "Mamdani is too radical" vote and the MAGA vote where Sliwa got the classical Republican (and maybe some of the "too radical but Cuomo's a sex pest?"). Exit poll should say more.

      11 votes
    4. [9]
      JCPhoenix
      Link Parent
      I think that's highly location and populace dependent. Looking at Virginia, the reason why Spanberger won, is because she ran as a moderate Dem. For places like NYC, yeah, that makes sense that a...

      And this is the strategy I believe democrats should focus on instead of "appealing to moderates".

      I think that's highly location and populace dependent.

      Looking at Virginia, the reason why Spanberger won, is because she ran as a moderate Dem. For places like NYC, yeah, that makes sense that a city can go all-in on a candidate that's further left than mainstream Dems. I know AOC doesn't represent all of NYC, but it's clear that someone like her and Mamdani are more than viable candidates in their respective "districts."

      If these two were running for statewide office or even US Senate from New York, could they win? For the Senate, against that good-for-nothing Schumer, yeah maybe. But against generic Republican? Think it's a tougher call. And certainly for the highest office, the presidency (I know Mamdani can't since he's a naturalized citizen), they'd have to move more to the center to be viable nationwide. I really doubt Independents from some metro Midwest suburb is going to vote for Mamdani where he stands currently (nevermind the anti-Muslim stuff that would definitely be used as ammo, as it was being used in NYC).

      Dems strategy should be meeting the people at where they are. I got frustrated by them, but maybe Dems do need Blue Dog Democrats back.

      9 votes
      1. [6]
        canekicker
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        Exactly, Spanberger and Sherrill have vastly different platforms and constituent concerns than Mamdani but are all under the larger tent of the "left". Throw in people like Rep. Perez of WA and...

        I think that's highly location and populace dependent.

        Exactly, Spanberger and Sherrill have vastly different platforms and constituent concerns than Mamdani but are all under the larger tent of the "left". Throw in people like Rep. Perez of WA and McBride in VA and there's a clear path forward for them if they run candidates who address the concerns of the people they represent.

        My fear is that Dems won't learn the right lessons from Mamdani or these other candidates and instead try to ape the aesthetics of these campaigns rather than the more substantive political strategies.

        12 votes
        1. [2]
          raze2012
          Link Parent
          My biggest fear is the opposite, given the tepid reluctance with the DNC to even endorse Mamdami. They'll try to pantomime the strategies without really committing to admitting what's really wrong...

          My fear is that Dems won't learn the right lessons from Mamdami or these other candidates and instead try to ape the aesthetics of these campaigns rather than the more substantive political strategies.

          My biggest fear is the opposite, given the tepid reluctance with the DNC to even endorse Mamdami. They'll try to pantomime the strategies without really committing to admitting what's really wrong with the nation right now. e.g. "We'll create more Jobs!" as a strategy without realizing that it's the quality of jobs and the lack of labor protections that's really hurting Americans as companies haphazardly layoff entire sectors. We don't desire more minimum wage healthcare jobs.

          And then their aesthetics will be half heated and non-genuine. Mamdami knew when to attack and push on opponents on issues that mattered, and he knew when to dodge their provocations and say "I'm here to focus on the cost of living crisis". do I think much of congress can do that as of now? I'm not too hopeful.

          17 votes
          1. canekicker
            Link Parent
            I think that's a fair take. I think what this really shows is a lack of confidence in the Dems and the general expectation that they'll fail to capitalize on these wins and the insanity of this...

            I think that's a fair take. I think what this really shows is a lack of confidence in the Dems and the general expectation that they'll fail to capitalize on these wins and the insanity of this administration.

            5 votes
        2. [3]
          DefinitelyNotAFae
          Link Parent
          Tbh I doubt the mainstream party can copy the aesthetic. It requires the candidate that is talking to cabbies and at clubs and at tai chi and at bodegas and at churches all in the same weekend...

          Tbh I doubt the mainstream party can copy the aesthetic. It requires the candidate that is talking to cabbies and at clubs and at tai chi and at bodegas and at churches all in the same weekend while doing bits with literally every NY* influencer - including the bodega cats**

          *Replace with locale
          **Replace with beloved institutional animals of locale

          9 votes
          1. [2]
            canekicker
            Link Parent
            I meant more the vertical videos, man on the street videos, trying to achieve vitality on Tiktok ,etc. They're already trying it but I worry they'll think the how of the messaging is the issue and...

            I meant more the vertical videos, man on the street videos, trying to achieve vitality on Tiktok ,etc. They're already trying it but I worry they'll think the how of the messaging is the issue and not the actual message. Though let's be honest , going out and actually talking to people and meeting them where they're at is good regardless of locality.

            4 votes
            1. DefinitelyNotAFae
              Link Parent
              I think they won't get the collaboration of the people they need without substance. They can certainly try, Cuomo's horrific AI videos were a weird stab at it but there's a reason Mamdani lands...

              I think they won't get the collaboration of the people they need without substance. They can certainly try, Cuomo's horrific AI videos were a weird stab at it but there's a reason Mamdani lands and Cuomo doesn't. Vertical videos by themselves are just format. The success of the content, IMO at least, requires the policy and personality or the "oh man he's on Gaydar and with the cats!"

              But hey people fuck it up all the time so idk

              9 votes
      2. [2]
        raze2012
        Link Parent
        In the current environment I'd say they have a strong shot. I'm not going to say democratic socialism will always be a popular stance in the US (I just know that by the time I retire there's...

        If these two were running for statewide office or even US Senate from New York, could they win?

        In the current environment I'd say they have a strong shot. I'm not going to say democratic socialism will always be a popular stance in the US (I just know that by the time I retire there's probably going to be yet another red wave from my own generation. And I hate that notion). But c. 2025, after 10 months of Trump, I personally believe there is a wave of younger millennials and especially Gen Z waiting to be properly roused by policies that aren't sticking to the status quo. Boomers are starting to die out so this new wave will be the next demographics you really need to appeal to.

        Trump did take advantage of this himself... and proceeded to break every promise as he's done since before I (a young millenial) was even born. But those false promises clearly resonated. And he wasn't even talking that much about the economy past "I'll make tips tax free" (a very useless stance if you know how tips work these days). Or Healtchare past "I'll make pharmaceuticals cheaper"

        Now imagine someone who actually says "yes I want to tax the rich who have laid off our workforce and is trying to let outsourcing and AI ruin American jobs" and "I'll make sure every American has access to a doctor with the tax dollars they already pay". Billionaires have a lot of advantages, but they still only have one vote. They can't hoodwink an entire generation of people who can see the jobs being eroded in real time. Or at least, it'd be cheaper to just pay for their labor than attempt to do so.


        But that's simply my virew of it, from a lens that admittedly benefits me and my views.

        8 votes
        1. JCPhoenix
          Link Parent
          Ha, I think we replied to each other in different comments, but basically said the same thing!

          Ha, I think we replied to each other in different comments, but basically said the same thing!

          1 vote
  3. [11]
    DefinitelyNotAFae
    (edited )
    Link
    PA Supreme Court holds its liberal majority and reportedly there's a 4th Mummy movie planned. You know, just to add to the good day. Still pending, Prop 50 aka short term* reducing election...

    PA Supreme Court holds its liberal majority and reportedly there's a 4th Mummy movie planned. You know, just to add to the good day.

    Still pending, Prop 50 aka short term* reducing election integrity to try to keep having them? That is to say, redistricting in California

    *We hope

    Edit: Prop 50 passed!

    26 votes
    1. [4]
      aphoenix
      Link Parent
      And Texas looks like they're going to affirm Prop 16! It means that you are required to be a citizen to vote. Now, you might think that it's already required to be a citizen to vote, because of...

      And Texas looks like they're going to affirm Prop 16! It means that you are required to be a citizen to vote.

      Now, you might think that it's already required to be a citizen to vote, because of such reasons like how you must be a citizen to vote. But, you know, Texas! They're finally going to make it official. I mean, it is official already - you have to provide proof of citizenship to register to vote - but now it'll be really required. Not just required, but rerequired.

      19 votes
      1. [3]
        DefinitelyNotAFae
        Link Parent
        Jésus. Combine that with Abbott promising/threatening to put "100% tariffs" on anyone that moves to TX from NY... A thing that isn't how literally any of that works. Governors can't impose...

        Jésus.

        Combine that with Abbott promising/threatening to put "100% tariffs" on anyone that moves to TX from NY... A thing that isn't how literally any of that works. Governors can't impose tariffs, tariffs are on goods, not people, interstate travel is a right....

        Texas just Texasing

        13 votes
        1. [2]
          aphoenix
          Link Parent
          On top of those reasons that it's objectively really stupid for Abbott to say that, it also is a punishment for people who would see the results of the election and want to leave NYC to move to...

          On top of those reasons that it's objectively really stupid for Abbott to say that, it also is a punishment for people who would see the results of the election and want to leave NYC to move to Texas... so people who would explicitly be supporters of Abbott.

          It's a threat primarily to his own people.

          10 votes
          1. DefinitelyNotAFae
            Link Parent
            Oh yeah a 4th dimension of the nonsense to be sure.

            Oh yeah a 4th dimension of the nonsense to be sure.

            4 votes
    2. hamstergeddon
      Link Parent
      My wife and I are celebrating that! Our county overwhelming voted "No" on retaining them, but we proudly voted "Yes" this morning. Had some guy outside polling place handing out little cards...

      PA Supreme Court holds its liberal majority

      My wife and I are celebrating that! Our county overwhelming voted "No" on retaining them, but we proudly voted "Yes" this morning. Had some guy outside polling place handing out little cards encouraging us to vote "No", so when we got home we set the card on fire in the kitchen sink. I'm not saying our little spontaneous ceremony cemented the win for PA's Supreme Court, but you can't prove it didn't!

      17 votes
    3. [2]
      derekiscool
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      This is and prop 50 are two massive wins for democracy. This takes away one opportunity for "legally" ignoring the results in a critical swing state. Prop 50 obviously offsets the extreme...

      This is and prop 50 are two massive wins for democracy.

      This takes away one opportunity for "legally" ignoring the results in a critical swing state.

      Prop 50 obviously offsets the extreme gerrymandering going on in other states, which is critical - because if Republicans have control of the house in 28, they can (and based on 2020, very likely would) choose to not certify the election results and choose the president based on house rules (each state delegation gets one vote).

      9 votes
      1. DefinitelyNotAFae
        Link Parent
        Yeah like I said it's not ideal in a long term situation. We have to fix the gerrymandering issue nationwide. But it is, IMO the correct short term response.

        Yeah like I said it's not ideal in a long term situation. We have to fix the gerrymandering issue nationwide. But it is, IMO the correct short term response.

        1 vote
    4. first-must-burn
      Link Parent
      I know what you're thinking. What's a place like me doing in a girl like this?

      I know what you're thinking. What's a place like me doing in a girl like this?

      2 votes
  4. [2]
    AnthonyB
    Link
    I'm coming up on hour 40 without sleep and I have so many thoughts that I can't formulate into a coherent point, but I feel like I won't be able to sleep until I puke some of them out in front of...

    I'm coming up on hour 40 without sleep and I have so many thoughts that I can't formulate into a coherent point, but I feel like I won't be able to sleep until I puke some of them out in front of you people. Apologies in advance.

    You know that scene in Back to the Future where Marty plays "Johnny Be Good" at the Enchantment Under the Sea Dance? The part where Marvin Berry calls up his cousin Chuck and says, "You know that new sound you've been looking for? Well listen to this!" That's how I feel about the Democrats right now. I, and millions of other people from all walks of life, are holding up the phone for Jefferies and Schumer, hoping to God that they will listen. Lord knows they need it. While the Democrats won big tonight - as is tradition - they are still very very unpopular.

    About 13 months ago, I left another rambling mess of a comment about my fears that Kamala Harris would lose the election on account of her campaign's lack of a clear message. I'd link it, but who gives a shit, right? Since I'm just some dumb idiot, my big piece of advice/wish was for her to "just give us something." Something substantive. None of the dink and dunk means-tested bullshit that we've seen countless times, but something simple that speaks to the material needs of all working people during this period of unfathomable wealth/income inequality and high costs of living. Love him or hate him, Mamdani's campaign had that something. And because of that, he was able to go from an unknown state assemblyman to household name with a passionate base of supporters and a mind-blowing 100k volunteers.

    The fact that a brown, Muslim, self-described socialist immigrant can pull this off against a hostile media and without a lick of support from the party establishment speaks to the power and potential of this brand of politics. Imagine if he had Barack Obama gassing him up for the past three months. Imagine if every liberal and Democrat pundit on the news backed him up the way conservatives back Republicans. Hell, imagine if every pro-Israel liberal said something like, "He and I might disagree about Israel, but that doesn't mean he's an antisemite," like the way Brad Lander did. I know this is the same shit that every other obnoxious Bernie supporter has been screaming for the past nine years, but we're starting to reach the point where Berniecrats are electable in spite of all the additional hurdles they face. Can we please please please just try putting these two things together this one time?

    Obviously, the answer to that question is going to be no. Which begs the question: the fuck are we doing here? How is it that the two most powerful Democrats, who are both from NY, can see this once in a generation talent with Obamaesque enthusiasm and completely avoid him? Someone connect the dots for me please, because the only possible explanations I see are that (a) their political instincts are atrocious, and/or (b) Mamdani's platform goes against the special interests that they are beholden to. Either way, if things don't change, we're fucked. A patchwork of anti-Trump interests a la 2020 is not going to win enough congressional votes to undo the damage of the past decade. We're in big swing, need a movement territory. For all I know, our moment to get off this ride already passed, but if it somehow hasn't yet, this feels like our last shot. You wanna run a moderate somewhere where you think that is the only thing that works, then by all means go for it. But for the love of god, stop undercutting the left flank at every step.

    19 votes
    1. vord
      Link Parent
      Democrats would rather let a Republican win than prove that their politics don't work.

      Democrats would rather let a Republican win than prove that their politics don't work.

      13 votes
  5. [5]
    skybrian
    Link
    Here's an argument that this might be good for YIMBY, depending on what Mamdani actually does: Mamdani Has a Point About Rent Control ... ...

    Here's an argument that this might be good for YIMBY, depending on what Mamdani actually does:

    Mamdani Has a Point About Rent Control

    In many places, especially those where the housing shortage is most severe, the politics of building new units is toxic. The perceived costs of development often inspire intense opposition while the benefits take years, even decades, to materialize. This dynamic cannot be neatly separated from ideal housing policy. Mamdani argues that “freeze the rent” is not just a way of delivering relief from exorbitant housing costs; it is the only way to get enough voters on board with a growth agenda. A growing body of real-world evidence suggests that he has a point.

    ...

    In a 2022 paper, the political scientists Anselm Hager, Hanno Hilbig, and Robert Vief used the introduction of a 2019 rent-control law in Berlin to study how access to rent-controlled apartments influenced local attitudes toward housing development. The fact that the new law included an arbitrary cutoff date (it applied only to buildings constructed before January 1, 2014) allowed the authors to create a natural experiment, comparing otherwise-similar tenants in otherwise-similar buildings.

    Heading into the experiment, the authors hypothesized that having access to a rent-controlled apartment would keep tenants in their existing units longer and therefore make them more resistant to neighborhood change. Instead, they found the opposite: Residents who lived in rent-controlled apartments were 37 percent more likely to support new local-housing construction than those living in noncontrolled units. (Hilbig cautioned to me that “there is some uncertainty, since the confidence intervals are really large,” but that “the effect is definitely sizable.”) This gap was largest in neighborhoods that had experienced the sharpest rental-price increases over the previous decade. The authors concluded that by guaranteeing price stability, rent control eases residents’ fears that new housing will make their current living situation unaffordable. “The takeaway for me is that when people feel protected, when they feel secure, they become much less scared of change,” Hilbig told me.

    ...

    Setting aside the specifics of New York City government, though, Mamdani may have hit upon a winning political formula for cities and states struggling to respond to the housing crisis. When I put Mamdani’s argument about rent control to YIMBY organizers—the people who are working to pass pro-housing laws in cities and states across the country—I expected them to roll their eyes. Instead, they lit up. In nearly every blue state that has passed significant pro-housing legislation, they explained, introducing some form of rent control has been crucial to getting those bills across the finish line. “It was absolutely essential,” Alex Brennan, the executive director of Futurewise, a Washington State think tank that helped spearhead an ambitious housing-reform package that passed in May, told me. “Saying that we’re going to have a lot more housing five or 10 years from now isn’t enough. Legislators want to know: What happens in the meantime? What are we going to do for those folks whose rents are increasing by double digits every year? We needed an answer for those people.”

    16 votes
    1. [4]
      Eji1700
      Link Parent
      There's piles of examples of rent control being problematic in the long run. Of course "hey voters i promise to give you money at the cost to the future" gets you votes, but unless he's got some...

      There's piles of examples of rent control being problematic in the long run.

      Of course "hey voters i promise to give you money at the cost to the future" gets you votes, but unless he's got some seriously different approach or a plan to the not just bureaucratic red tape, but literal physical space limitations of new york, I don't see how this ends differently than all the evidence we already have has shown time and time again.

      7 votes
      1. [3]
        raze2012
        Link Parent
        Rent control is a tool, not a solution. You use Rent control for short term relief while executing long term solutions of building more housing. If you are doing both, then rent control works. In...

        Rent control is a tool, not a solution. You use Rent control for short term relief while executing long term solutions of building more housing. If you are doing both, then rent control works.

        In times like these especially, it's very important to not miss the trees while looking at the forest. Long term plans mean nothing if your potential constituents go homeless while overhauling housing policy.

        17 votes
        1. [2]
          Eji1700
          Link Parent
          It’s a very very crap tool historically. The original post reads, to me, that once again we’ve back doored in rent control with downstream promises that will likely evaporate due to legit and...

          It’s a very very crap tool historically.

          The original post reads, to me, that once again we’ve back doored in rent control with downstream promises that will likely evaporate due to legit and illegitimate issues.

          I’d like to be wrong. Rent is outrageous and dangerous in the manner in which it’s now handled but it’s also why I don’t like watching the same pattern play out. If you do not increase supply or do something radically different this is likely going to last forever and only make the situation worse.

          No YIMBY has ever voted to get rid of rent control to fix things. It’s very much political suicide to try to undo.

          4 votes
          1. raze2012
            Link Parent
            It's has negative history because it's rarely used correctly. I don't blame the plank for breaking after months of use as a hole cover. I blame the company for not proceeding to properly fix the...

            It's has negative history because it's rarely used correctly. I don't blame the plank for breaking after months of use as a hole cover. I blame the company for not proceeding to properly fix the hole. I still think the plank is an important and useful tool, just not the singular solution to throw on and then move on from.

            Or if we want to be more topical: Tarriffs is a crap tool, if Americans do not follow up on it by using that time to become domestically competitive. Biden put tarriffs on Chinese EV's for some 3 years (and continued by Trump) and what do we have to show for it 12 out of 36 months later? Trump ending EV credits? Elon going full nazi? Ford simply throwing their hands up and giving up? Bezos using the opportunity to add cars to the data harvesting tech dystopia?

            (nevermind whatever the hell Trumps "everything is a nail" approach is.)

            If you do not increase supply or do something radically different this is likely going to last forever and only make the situation worse.

            I believe we are in full agreement here. I hope this situation actually creates radical reform this time. If not... well, I concede this is yet another EV tariff situation. We never even got far enough in housing reform to suggest "okay the rent control isn't needed anymore", so I guess we'll cross that bridge if we ever arrive there.

            13 votes
  6. [5]
    donn
    (edited )
    Link
    https://prospect.org/2025/11/04/americas-dumbest-billionaires-fail-to-stop-zohran-mamdani/ Heartening to see an actual left-wing progressive win, I thought America was just cooked at this point....

    https://prospect.org/2025/11/04/americas-dumbest-billionaires-fail-to-stop-zohran-mamdani/

    It was disgusting stuff. But it also was palpably desperate, and coming from one of the worst candidates imaginable. Mamdani is exceptionally talented, on par with the young Barack Obama in my estimation, but (also like Obama, whose first U.S. Senate opponent was Alan Keyes), he was also exceptionally fortunate in his opponent. It’s easy to dunk when you’re playing against a fifth grader.


    Heartening to see an actual left-wing progressive win, I thought America was just cooked at this point.

    Though for a leftist I (very weirdly, I know) do actually have my doubts about rent control as anything but like a fleeting temporary measure. It has been known to shrink housing supply, and unless accompanied by a chainsaw to zoning laws and massive public housing works, I think it may be detrimental in the long run. But that's it! The rest of his platform is good. Also heartened by how he didn't drop transgender people as an expedient minority like some other democrats did.

    14 votes
    1. [4]
      vord
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      Betcha rent control would work well if it was paired with some proper government-run projects to build more housing, with the political will to seize property where needed, the way they are happy...

      Betcha rent control would work well if it was paired with some proper government-run projects to build more housing, with the political will to seize property where needed, the way they are happy to when building another stadium nobody wants.

      6 votes
      1. [2]
        donn
        Link Parent
        I really do hope he has the political will and city legislature support to pull it off. His performance will be the benchmark for genuine left-wing policies: not just in the US, but for the rest...

        I really do hope he has the political will and city legislature support to pull it off. His performance will be the benchmark for genuine left-wing policies: not just in the US, but for the rest of us too! https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-left-wing-top-politicians-cheer-on-nycs-new-socialist-mayor-zohran-mamdani/

        8 votes
        1. rosco
          Link Parent
          I think this would be a really great time for non-profits focusing on urban development and non-market construction to heed the call. They, along with Mamdani have an Overton Window where they...

          I think this would be a really great time for non-profits focusing on urban development and non-market construction to heed the call. They, along with Mamdani have an Overton Window where they might just be able to pull it off. If Mamdani can quash NIMBY suits to slow development and provide incentives like donations of low value city owned property like parking lots in return for guaranteed development they have a shot.

          I do believe that the typical cast of characters will be attempting to stop this from being a real success, but hopefully there will be more support than resistence!

          4 votes
      2. skybrian
        Link Parent
        It would be government-funded, but built by contractors, because NYC isn’t likely to hire the construction workers. Here’s an introduction to the construction industry in New York: A problem with...

        It would be government-funded, but built by contractors, because NYC isn’t likely to hire the construction workers.

        Here’s an introduction to the construction industry in New York:

        Most construction firms in New York City employ fewer than 20 people (89 percent in 2017). These small firms are responsible for about one-third of all construction jobs.

        A problem with government projects in the US is that governments often don’t even have the engineering talent to manage them, so that gets outsourced to expensive consultants. Fixing that would go a long way towards improving the efficiency of government-funded infrastructure, but it seems like a long-term project, taking years to see effects on new projects.

        8 votes
  7. macleod
    Link
    Incredibe. The DSA is having a moment, and I hope it grows by the day more and more.

    Incredibe. The DSA is having a moment, and I hope it grows by the day more and more.

    7 votes
  8. DefinitelyNotAFae
    (edited )
    Link
    Cuomo just had to shut down the boos in his concession speech as he congratulated "Mandami" [sic] and he was not particularly successful.

    Cuomo just had to shut down the boos in his concession speech as he congratulated "Mandami" [sic] and he was not particularly successful.

    7 votes
  9. [3]
    boredop
    Link
    New Yorker here. Here is a piece from a local news site that resonated with me, and I think sums up the local view of what was ultimately a very local election: What an embarrassing time to be a...

    New Yorker here. Here is a piece from a local news site that resonated with me, and I think sums up the local view of what was ultimately a very local election: What an embarrassing time to be a New York City hater

    3 votes
    1. DynamoSunshirt
      Link Parent
      Recently moved out of the city, so I have a slightly different perspective. No, the city is not about to revert to some 80s hellscape. But affordability and transportation are in crisis, maybe...

      Recently moved out of the city, so I have a slightly different perspective. No, the city is not about to revert to some 80s hellscape. But affordability and transportation are in crisis, maybe their biggest crises ever.

      The city really needs to figure out how to maintain and extend the subway to accommodate the huge amounts of new housing we're building.

      LIC transportation is a huge headache right now because it's still using the same set of subway stations we had one hundred years ago in the same place, back when that neighborhood was a sea of strip clubs, warehouses, and taxi mechanics.

      Gowanus housing is exploding and on the cusp of doing the same thing to Cobble Hill, Park Slope, and Carroll Gardens transport.

      And the city is planning to replace the waterfront shipping district south of Brooklyn Bridge park with... even more housing. Which is great! But in NYC, where even the lower upper class can scarcely justify the cost, time, and space needed for an automobile, we need to build more transportation of all kinds to accommodate these new commutes. There should be new subway lines, new BRT routes, and new bike highways servicing all of these new residential developments. Hell, at least Hudson Yards got a new 7 stop, even if nobody but the .01% lives in Hudson Yards.

      And even worse, Mamdani is currently cozying up to NYPD Commissioner Tisch, Eric Adams' partner in crime for elevating minor bicycle offenses to criminal offenses. And Eric Adams has actually started removing protection from bicycle lanes like Bedford Ave, right at the time when we should be creating more protected lanes to make it easier for people to embrace multimodal transport. Astoria's 31st street bike lane has been paused because of an ongoing lawsuit, likely for at least 6 months now that we've reached the end of "painting season" for the roads.

      And that's not even mentioning all of the work that needs to be done to protect the city from flooding, something we were all reminded of when tons of streets flooded just last week in a not-that-serious rainstorm. Lord help us if a serious Noreaster or tropical storm comes through.

      NYC is hardly in the midst of a crime crisis. But the city really needs to focus on quality of life issues like walkability, bikeability, and improving subway service. I know most people would call NYC highly walkable, but until we improve daylighting and curb the dangerous habits of drivers who routinely speed and run stop signs/red lights, I give it a B- at best. Vehicle crime is still crime!

      6 votes
    2. rosco
      Link Parent
      I have to be honest, I have been a lifelong NYC hater. I'm a life long west coaster. I lived in SF when the majority of the NYC finance bros were coming in and making cultural changes here. And...

      What an embarrassing time to be a New York City hater

      I have to be honest, I have been a lifelong NYC hater. I'm a life long west coaster. I lived in SF when the majority of the NYC finance bros were coming in and making cultural changes here. And I've just had an unreasonable dislike for the city, like truly unreasonable - the whole northeast for that matter (which is also lovely). But man, good on fucking you guys! Politically the bay area is pretty cooked. There is too much wealth, tech optimism, and apathy. I'm really hoping you can inspire our area, and people all over the country, to support progressive candidates and action. You guys are really America's city and are really leading the way at a time we need it most. So stoked and proud of you all!

      5 votes
  10. [33]
    Minori
    Link
    Off topic, Hasan was barred from Mamdani's upstairs election party, and I think it's mildly hilarious. So many streamers always try to make the moment about themselves.

    Off topic, Hasan was barred from Mamdani's upstairs election party, and I think it's mildly hilarious. So many streamers always try to make the moment about themselves.

    17 votes
    1. TheJorro
      Link Parent
      He hasn't even taken office and he's already making great decisions.

      He hasn't even taken office and he's already making great decisions.

      15 votes
    2. [4]
      Lia
      Link Parent
      Off topic to your off topic, who is Hasan? He seems terribly important given the long chain of comments below yours.

      Off topic to your off topic, who is Hasan? He seems terribly important given the long chain of comments below yours.

      11 votes
      1. bushbear
        Link Parent
        I was aware of his existence but never really bothered to get into his content. I'm not hugely into influencer culture and he falls into that category. Also I never heard overly positive things...

        I was aware of his existence but never really bothered to get into his content. I'm not hugely into influencer culture and he falls into that category. Also I never heard overly positive things about him in the leftist discords that I lurk so I feel lucky to not care much about whatever controversy he is involved in.

        As a dedicated leftist I must state that I condemn Hasan...unless the majority believe he is innocent in which case I am just going to keep my opinion to myself and continue about my day. /s

        4 votes
      2. [2]
        hungariantoast
        Link Parent
        Probably Hasan Piker: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasan_Piker
        3 votes
        1. Lia
          Link Parent
          Oh, that guy. My friend once forced me to watch 60 seconds of some livestream. (A memory that my brain then soon erased. Thanks, brain!)

          Oh, that guy. My friend once forced me to watch 60 seconds of some livestream.

          (A memory that my brain then soon erased. Thanks, brain!)

          3 votes
    3. [4]
      Eji1700
      Link Parent
      He was allowed in later. Which I find a telling sign of many of the so called progressives actual priorities

      He was allowed in later. Which I find a telling sign of many of the so called progressives actual priorities

      2 votes
      1. [3]
        raze2012
        Link Parent
        Let in as in "they changed their minds" or let in as "he snuck into the party anyway"? I think context is important here.

        Let in as in "they changed their minds" or let in as "he snuck into the party anyway"? I think context is important here.

        3 votes
        1. [2]
          Eji1700
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          Supposedly they had the wrong info and he was invited. Edit- I don't really have the desire to dig into this, so i could very well be wrong. That said what digging i've done in the past,...

          Supposedly they had the wrong info and he was invited.

          Edit-
          I don't really have the desire to dig into this, so i could very well be wrong. That said what digging i've done in the past, "progressive" candidates seem totally willing to rub elbows with the likes of hasan. Only reason it's slightly more shocking is because more of the mainstream is aware of what a pos he actually is thanks to the whole dog thing making headlines.

          Edit 2-
          You can scan through his stream, he's straight up let in. No sneaking. Just went to the wrong spot.

          5 votes
    4. [7]
      rosco
      Link Parent
      I know I've been putting on the tin foil hat a lot lately, but if I may again: Does it seem weird to anyone else that when there are progressive voices that gain mainstream success they seem to be...

      I know I've been putting on the tin foil hat a lot lately, but if I may again:

      Does it seem weird to anyone else that when there are progressive voices that gain mainstream success they seem to be torn down by seemingly small things and that the reaction to them almost feels manufactured? I'm not sure if it's just a symptom of progressive politics, but at a time when there are almost no progressives in the "man-o-sphere" crucifying Hasan seems intentional. As always, very open to being wrong.

      1 vote
      1. [2]
        CptBluebear
        Link Parent
        Perhaps in this case it's a bit tinfoily, but generally... yeah. You see it a lot with climate activists. They may protest or rally in favour of climate change but then get absolutely railed for...

        Perhaps in this case it's a bit tinfoily, but generally... yeah. You see it a lot with climate activists. They may protest or rally in favour of climate change but then get absolutely railed for taking a plane, especially if that journey would've been to speak about climate issues abroad.

        There's an expectation of perfection, lest you're branded a hypocrite, when you're espousing views that require actual change in human behaviour.

        3 votes
        1. rosco
          Link Parent
          Yeah, I work in the climate space and this is so prevalent. It's like "Yes, we live in a horrible system that requires things like planes, cars, etc to function within society. It's totally...

          Yeah, I work in the climate space and this is so prevalent. It's like "Yes, we live in a horrible system that requires things like planes, cars, etc to function within society. It's totally reasonable to critique the things that you use because there is no alternative." I think this is when I feel like the original voice might be sincere, but then it's given a megaphone by vested interests in making sure that the change doesn't happen.

          It's like missing the forest through the trees. Why are we so hard on someone who may treat their dog badly but ok with someone else who encourages, defends, and justifies genocide. I think the discussion of "did he do it" is totally irrelevant and the "why are we so ready to toss him out for this vs the other things we tolerate" feels like the real question.

          1 vote
      2. [4]
        AnthonyB
        Link Parent
        I don't really get it. Sure, if you're convinced he hurts his dog, then yeah, but people have been shitting on the guy for as long as I've known of his existence. I've seen other left wing/leftist...

        I don't really get it. Sure, if you're convinced he hurts his dog, then yeah, but people have been shitting on the guy for as long as I've known of his existence.

        I've seen other left wing/leftist figures take heat - especially those who are social media figures - but usually it's over some ideological difference. And more often than not, it's coming from the hardcore lefties. With Hasan, it often feels uniquely personal. It's like he's a famous athlete on a rival team. People hate him the way I hate Draymond Green or Travis Kelce. I don't know of anyone else in that space who gets as much heat as he does. Part of the reason why I stopped watching him a few years back was because half the stream was him responding to people giving him shit about his house. The dog thing seems to be the latest in a long line of attacks.

        I wouldn't say the hate is manufactured, though that may change now that he was the focal point of an anti-Mamdani attack ad. My guess is that it's a combination of the space he's in and his abrasive nature towards people he disagrees with. Twitch is mostly gaming (yikes) and home to some big time creators with dubious politics (double yikes). I was just looking at the top posts of LivestreamFail for the past year, and about half of them are about Hasan. I don't imagine I would think highly of someone if my main source of information on the guy is clips of him looking like an asshole (I guess that could be considered manufactured). If that doesn't turn people off, then I imagine that being called a dipshit for wandering in with a fairly standard liberal take about America's foreign policy might do the trick. Especially since it's coming from a big buff handsome dude.

        The thing that doesn't make sense, or at least frustrates me, is how often the attacks come from other progressives/leftists. If he's not your guy, that's fine. But why cut down someone who, as you put it, is one of the few (and largest) voices that's pulling people away from right-wing/manosphere politics and towards progressive politics? My go-to small talk at organizing events is "what brought you here," and "Hasan" is one of the more popular answers. Pretty much every prominent journalist, media figure, and politician on the left seems to like him. The ally of your allies is your ally!

        1 vote
        1. [3]
          Minori
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          He won't make many friends in New York by saying things like, "America deserved 9/11." Doesn't matter if he describes his comments as "satirical" after copping a ban. Completely ignoring I/P, he's...

          He won't make many friends in New York by saying things like, "America deserved 9/11." Doesn't matter if he describes his comments as "satirical" after copping a ban. Completely ignoring I/P, he's a still a bad face for the American left.

          1. [2]
            AnthonyB
            Link Parent
            Idk, I'm of the belief that the American left needs all the faces it can get right now. Not that these are your exact words, but I remember in another thread about him last year someone said...

            Completely ignoring I/P, he's a still a bad face for the American left.

            Idk, I'm of the belief that the American left needs all the faces it can get right now. Not that these are your exact words, but I remember in another thread about him last year someone said something to the effect of, "I don't think he should be the face of the left." (This was back in the "we need a Joe Rogan" days) That comment always stuck with me because I don't think there is, or should be, a single face to define or represent the left. The left needs a shock jock/broey/parasocial guy like Hasan just as much as it needs a Jennifer Welch, a Briahna Joy, a Contrapoints, a Stavvy, a Van Lathan, or any of the other personalities that represent different cultures, sub cultures, and niches. It's a big tent!

            We can do a whole back and forth thing about whatever grievances you have with the guy, but I'm more interested in finding out what/who you think is a good face for the American left.

            1 vote
            1. Minori
              Link Parent
              AOC has surprised and impressed me. She's pragmatic and effective.

              I'm more interested in finding out what/who you think is a good face for the American left.

              AOC has surprised and impressed me. She's pragmatic and effective.

    5. [16]
      teaearlgraycold
      Link Parent
      Hasan, the recently outed animal abuser?

      Hasan, the recently outed animal abuser?

      8 votes
      1. [15]
        canekicker
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        I have no opinions on Piker but my understanding is that this has been debunked by a few different outlets. edit: maybe not. I honestly don't care enough

        I have no opinions on Piker but my understanding is that this has been debunked by a few different outlets.

        edit: maybe not. I honestly don't care enough

        4 votes
        1. [10]
          Eji1700
          Link Parent
          He is on camera shocking his dog. He is on camera then saying she's just a baby. The dog is on camera for hours at a time in a very small space. He first tried to say she hurt her dewclaw and that...

          He is on camera shocking his dog.

          He is on camera then saying she's just a baby.

          The dog is on camera for hours at a time in a very small space.

          He first tried to say she hurt her dewclaw and that is why she yelped when he reached to the side.

          He then tried to say that he couldn't have shocked her because he doesn't have a shock collar. Despite the camera showing what is a shock collar on the dog at the time.

          He then tried to show the collar, which very clearly was a shock model with the prongs unscrewed and tape put over the collar.

          He then tried to say that shocking is actually not bad (and arguably under the right circumstances, that might be true, but EVEN IF you're the kind of person who might buy that, this was so absolutely not the case).

          And on, and on, and on.

          This isn't even getting into the people who tried to back him up and told completely conflicting stories (i've been there and he never had one, I've never seen one), the fact you can see the shock collar remote, the fact that he's done it before, and so many other instances.

          It is all on camera, you can watch all of this, unedited. People who have nothing to hide don't change their stories 15 times when just showing the collar the moment it happened would've been fine. His dog yelped and he doesn't even care, he knows she yelped because he shocked her, and we know he shocked her because he reached where hes reached in the past to shock her just before she yelped.

          This has been one of the greatest examples of who is willing to show just how unreliable they are. People talk about other streamers or subreddits as if it matters. The evidence is there. Watch it yourself and decide. The articles you're sourcing are verifiable as objectively lying.

          9 votes
          1. [9]
            donn
            (edited )
            Link Parent
            Post your credible sources then. Because I'm seeing is HE LITERALLY DID IT repeated ad nauseum despite him having obvious plausible deniability for every single thing you mentioned, and I am fully...

            Post your credible sources then. Because I'm seeing is HE LITERALLY DID IT repeated ad nauseum despite him having obvious plausible deniability for every single thing you mentioned, and I am fully willing to give him the benefit of the doubt given that there's an army of right-wing streamer orbiters looking to sink him at every moment. Of course, I'm leaning towards you being one of them at the moment. EDIT: That was ad hominem and I apologize.

            9 votes
            1. [2]
              Eji1700
              (edited )
              Link Parent
              How very civil of you to instantly assume that someone who has watch the clips with their own eyes and doesn't like seeing a dog be shocked and the lied about must be some right wing orbiter. I...
              • Exemplary

              there's an army of right-wing streamer orbiters looking to sink him at every moment. Of course, I'm leaning towards you being one of them at the moment.

              How very civil of you to instantly assume that someone who has watch the clips with their own eyes and doesn't like seeing a dog be shocked and the lied about must be some right wing orbiter.

              I doubt you're asking in good faith, but for anyone who hasn't actually seen the footage, heres the best I can find at the moment because i'm not staying up all night proving reality (i wish i could find shit that isn't a restream but of course he's deleted that stream and raw incidents are either other streamers or LSF):

              This is the initial incident, watch his left hand.
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NmmqvJ3oiM

              Source of the dewclaw comment:
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqexB1-3TOA

              Here's hasan discussing using shock collars:
              https://www.instagram.com/reel/DPn20fZjhmt/?hl=en

              You can dig deeper if you want. He waited an entire day to show the collar and then had tape on it. He has changed his story every single step of the way.

              Here's the LSF chain:
              Initial clip:
              https://www.reddit.com/r/LivestreamFail/comments/1o0sjun/hasan_reaching_for_something_and_seemingly/

              Showing the collar a day later, after claiming she clipped her dew claw (see above):
              https://www.reddit.com/r/h3h3productions/comments/1o1lb67/hasan_shows_the_collar_on_stream/

              Another streamer tries to claim that its got the shock prongs removed (which is a feature of the collar and in direct contradiction with Hasan's own words):
              https://www.reddit.com/r/LivestreamFail/comments/1o68a68/qt_confirms_the_collar_had_a_shock_function/

              Old footage of him that shows the collars remote, again it's the model everyone says it is and is the shock remote:
              https://www.reddit.com/r/LivestreamFail/comments/1o5z6d1/hasan_notices_shock_dog_collar_remote_on_his/

              Him saying shock collars are fine(heavily parapharsing, its short, just watch it):
              https://www.reddit.com/r/LivestreamFail/comments/1o7kd29/hasan_claims_that_kaya_didnt_have_the_collar_on/

              Related stuff that's come up after all this as people dive through the past videos:

              A second incident of him looking at the dog, reaching to the left, and her suddenly jumping and moving, with claims his channel is muted:
              https://www.reddit.com/r/LivestreamFail/comments/1oa3see/another_incident/

              Another clip that's been talked about during the incident of hasan pulling a dog he had before by its tail:
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT8ucadGCVc

              Likewise a clip of another person(Jennifer Welch) saying the dogs collar is too tight and its choking her:
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLlPWPOWP-A

              It goes on and on and on. LSF is not a trustworthy source, videos can be edited, people have agendas, LOTS of scummy people are trying to turn this into money for themselves because that's their shitty job.

              That said decide for youself. The clips are there, there's plenty more. I'm doing my best to get as raw footage as I can find without wasting my night on this. It is plain as day to me he shocked that dog, and it's plain as day he's fucking lying about it.

              Anecdotally speaking my parents got a shock collar for our dog, used it ONCE, they did the EXACT same yelp, and we all felt so bad we never used the shock again, and shortly after just got rid of it (literal concerns of the dog getting into something that could kill it were the only reason we didn't just get rid of it right then).

              Further, people who are accused of using a shock collar, when they aren't, do things like say "hey look, it's not a shock collar" and pull the collar off the dog, show the remote, and show everyone. Not lie about dewclaws and then show the collar a day after in a split second claiming its only the vibrate model while someone else contradicts them.

              I get that people like what he says, and thats fine. I even get saying that it's ok to use a shock collar. I don't really agree, ESPECIALLY for the sick use he's using it for to keep that dog on its bed, but I get it. Actually looking at any of this and coming to the conclusion that something else happened though I cannot begin to understand. He reeks of bullshit in the same way trump does, and much like trump its ALWAYS another story.

              Edit-

              Anyways since this comment i'm replying to is borderline malice and certainly intended as such, and clearly people are going to just assume my views rather than ask me:

              1. Hasan is, and has always been, a grifter and a piece of shit. How anyone can look at what he says and does and come to the conclusion this is serious person who's not just lying through his teeth bothers me.

              2. Just because he's a piece of shit, doesn't mean that the entire political sphere of twitch isn't also full of people who are grifters and pieces of shit.

              3. Mamdani worries me because he allows people like this in his orbit, as does AOC, as did Bernie. I genuinely believe that Bernie means well (and do worry that even meaning well he doesn't have the economic understanding to actually deliver what he wants, but i'd still vote for him), I'm less sure about AOC/Mamdani, and where the line from "well meaning but naive" to "using whatever they can to get what they want" lies. I've been burnt out on politics for a long long time, and I really have little desire to dig into either heavily beyond confirming the egregious nonsense (which yes, they're constantly misquoted and demonized), but much like I do not have much respect for Oprah when she gladly platformed Dr Phil/Oz, I am instantly suspect of AOC/Mamdani due to the variety of people they have surrounded themselves with, and their unwillingness to distance themselves from them so long as they benefit. I hope I'm wrong.

              15 votes
              1. donn
                Link Parent
                No, fair enough. I genuinely appreciate you going through the effort and apologize for my heated comment. This IS pretty damning, but as I've mentioned, there is enough plausible deniability here...

                No, fair enough. I genuinely appreciate you going through the effort and apologize for my heated comment. This IS pretty damning, but as I've mentioned, there is enough plausible deniability here that it really depends on your interpretation of him being a grifter who has the capacity to do something this horrible.

                We won't agree because of this fundamental difference, and that's fine.

                7 votes
            2. [3]
              gary
              Link Parent
              Don't accuse people you disagree with of being "right-wing streamer orbiters". Like Eji1700 said, r/LivestreamFail just happens to be the best place to find clips. No reason to believe they're a...
              • Exemplary

              Of course, I'm leaning towards you being one of them at the moment.

              Don't accuse people you disagree with of being "right-wing streamer orbiters". Like Eji1700 said, r/LivestreamFail just happens to be the best place to find clips. No reason to believe they're a "right-wing streamer orbiter". Anyway, the best evidence that Hasan did shock Kaya is:

              • Kaya yelps in pain and he does nothing, indicating lack of surprise.

              • Kaya yelps in pain at the exact same time he reaches his hand towards a spot on his desk.

              • He has placed what appears to be a remote in that part of his desk before.

              • Kaya, a dog, regularly spends the 8 hours laying on the bed while he's streaming. In the original clip sparking the incident, we see her getting up to stretch. She yelps in pain and then immediately goes back to the bed. By the way, Hasan himself said that Kaya likes to lay on the floor, yet she regularly spends his streaming hours laying on the bed, and when she gets onto the floor, she hops back onto the bed after yelping in pain. For a dog that really likes to lay on the floor, as said by Hasan, it's really suspicious that she is never on the floor.

              Short of Hasan coming out and stating that he shocked Kaya to keep laying her on the bed, there is always going to be deniability, but Hanlon's razor and all that. What's more likely? Dog that is claimed to like lying on the floor just happens to like lying on the bed for 8 hours at a time, AND cries in pain at the same time Hasan wants Kaya to get back on the bed, AND at the same time Hasan reaches his hand forward on his desk, AND Hasan doesn't care to check on said dog after said yelp, AND it's all due to nothing? OR.. Hasan's lying because the truth would make him look bad?

              6 votes
              1. [2]
                donn
                (edited )
                Link Parent
                That was ad hominem and I apologize. But to get back to the salient point, the "likelihood" in this situation entirely stems from your view of Hasan's character, which is why I said what I said...

                Don't accuse people you disagree with of being "right-wing streamer orbiters".

                That was ad hominem and I apologize.

                But to get back to the salient point, the "likelihood" in this situation entirely stems from your view of Hasan's character, which is why I said what I said about streamers and cherry-picking. People already have a well-cultivated view of the man that as a grifter thanks to places like LSF; who would totally use an animal as a prop and abuse it to ensure it remains thus AND have the hubris to think it wouldn't be noticed and used against him.

                From even like a cold, calculated politicking point of view, why the hell would you even risk this when you have repeatedly recognized that your biggest critics comb through every minute of your content to try to find something?

                2 votes
                1. gary
                  Link Parent
                  Well I had almost no preconceived notions around Hasan since I'd hardly ever watched his content prior. I've probably seen a clip or two throughout his career given he's so popular, but I can't...

                  Well I had almost no preconceived notions around Hasan since I'd hardly ever watched his content prior. I've probably seen a clip or two throughout his career given he's so popular, but I can't actively remember a time I have. My brain goes to "Hasan Minhaj" initially when someone says Hasan. Anyway, I heard about the Kaya incident and decided to watch clips for myself and, to me, it seems clear as day.

                  Why would someone risk anything? People do it all the time. Trump's rich and in the most powerful office in the world. Half the US hates him and combs through his content for something to critique. He still grifts and lies. People with much to lose often still risk it all because their sociopathic drive is what got them to where they are. Hasan is supposedly anti-capitalist but is also weirdly super wealthy so I definitely don't see it as impossible for his character to allow him to do something as shady as using a dog for a prop.

                  I understand I won't convince you and I'm okay with that. We can drop this then. I just wanted to point out that the nature of famous grifters is that they don't stop just because they made it to some level of success.

                  CC u/BartHarleyJarvis. I wasn't in that thread you mentioned. I wasn't previously a hater. I still come to the conclusion that I did.

                  7 votes
            3. [3]
              BartHarleyJarvis
              Link Parent
              Not surprised to see that it's all the same names that were attacking him back in February in this thread. They moved on from calling Hasan a terrorist supporter tho! It took 8 hours to debunk...

              Not surprised to see that it's all the same names that were attacking him back in February in this thread. They moved on from calling Hasan a terrorist supporter tho! It took 8 hours to debunk that one, and would probably require the same amount of time showing clips of the dog roaming around the house, playing outside, and responding to place commands in order to get people give it up. Haters will hate no matter what.

              5 votes
              1. teaearlgraycold
                Link Parent
                Since that thread I actually started watching him on Twitch pretty regularly. I gave him the benefit of the doubt. I enjoyed his content. But it’s extremely clear from his immediate reaction to...

                Since that thread I actually started watching him on Twitch pretty regularly. I gave him the benefit of the doubt. I enjoyed his content. But it’s extremely clear from his immediate reaction to Kaya’s yelp that he knew he’d been caught doing something wrong. And then there’s the evidence that he’s lied about her collar. And the constantly shifting narrative.

                I called him out in his chat, asked to be banned, and unfollowed. He may have so far been a net positive to American politics. And he’s a good entertainer. I agree with him on some of his major political beliefs. But he’s also not someone I can support.

                11 votes
              2. Eji1700
                Link Parent
                Yeah and look at all those people who hate trump. Clearly they're just out to get him.

                Not surprised to see that it's all the same names that were attacking him back in February in this thread.

                Yeah and look at all those people who hate trump. Clearly they're just out to get him.

                4 votes
        2. [3]
          gary
          Link Parent
          No, lol. There's a mountain of videos on r/LivestreamFail if you want to see what people managed to dig up,. including a video from before the incident where he realizes that the remote control is...

          No, lol. There's a mountain of videos on r/LivestreamFail if you want to see what people managed to dig up,. including a video from before the incident where he realizes that the remote control is visible on his desk so he starts eating in order to surreptitiously slide it out of view. Your first link doesn't do any "debunking", just re-stating Hasan's position. Your second link appeals to Hasan's friends having vouched for him. It also notes that he showed the collar to the camera, but neglects to mention that the collar visibly has tape over a portion of the collar. And your third link is too annoying to read through without you pointing out which part is relevant.

          The weirdest part is that his dog yelped in pain and he immediately called her spoiled and also did not check on her. What caring pet owner does that? It's almost like he wasn't surprised by the yelp.. because he initiated the pain.

          Link to the referenced video

          7 votes
          1. [2]
            donn
            Link Parent
            In a similar vein, r/LivestreamFail is not an impartial source on Hasan. The mod team is affiliated with one of his biggest critics and you can assume pretty much anything you see is cherry-picked...

            In a similar vein, r/LivestreamFail is not an impartial source on Hasan. The mod team is affiliated with one of his biggest critics and you can assume pretty much anything you see is cherry-picked to fit a narrative: https://x.com/bigginz420/status/1958294015507611798

            I think @Fiachra put it best way back when:

            I think the nature of any popular streamer is that there's so much footage of them to cherrypick to support a point - good and bad - that their public perception is doomed to be highly polarised. The result is conversations like this thread: unusually emotional (by Tildes standards, by internet standards still quite civil), and full of people talking past each other, bringing up good things or bad things and mostly unable to engage with the opposite points. Because there would be just so much footage to go through to prove or disprove anything!

            8 votes
            1. Eji1700
              Link Parent
              You don't need to touch anything from LSF. The footage speaks for itself, as does his constant changing of the narrative and outright lying about reality in the incident. You do not need to...

              You don't need to touch anything from LSF. The footage speaks for itself, as does his constant changing of the narrative and outright lying about reality in the incident. You do not need to cherrypick, it's blatantly obvious, you can see the collar, you can see the model, you can see the collar he showed a day later IS the shock model, and you can see the remote.

              7 votes