I mostly don’t comment often simply because I only do so when I have something of substance to add. A lot of times, people have already said what I wanted to say, so there’s no point in repeating...
I mostly don’t comment often simply because I only do so when I have something of substance to add. A lot of times, people have already said what I wanted to say, so there’s no point in repeating it.
From watching Dan Olson's 'Line goes up' enough times, I can confidently state that tech people understand one really complicated thing and think that therefore all complex things are in their...
From watching Dan Olson's 'Line goes up' enough times, I can confidently state that tech people understand one really complicated thing and think that therefore all complex things are in their grasp...
Tech guys are also terminally online so you see more of them. Many MBAs I know have told me about how the Art of War can teach you about business, I only know one who's ever been in a firefight... And he's never read Sun Tzu.
Tech Guys are like the much lower bar version of Nobelitis, in which winners of the Nobel prize go on to espouse ridiculous views on a subject they're not experts on, unfortunately for all. :/
Tech Guys are like the much lower bar version of Nobelitis, in which winners of the Nobel prize go on to espouse ridiculous views on a subject they're not experts on, unfortunately for all. :/
I (a Tech Man) was just having this exact conversation with a friend, as part of explaining why "computer people" are probably the very last people you should listen to on topics like philosophy...
I (a Tech Man) was just having this exact conversation with a friend, as part of explaining why "computer people" are probably the very last people you should listen to on topics like philosophy and ethics.
Given that many of my peers questioned why we had to take an ethics course at all (which is explained in that very course), I agree that we shouldn't be listened to. Tech Men are how we got the...
Given that many of my peers questioned why we had to take an ethics course at all (which is explained in that very course), I agree that we shouldn't be listened to. Tech Men are how we got the crypto boom, and the AI boom, and whatever wasteful new tech comes next.
Are you talking about 'Folding Ideas' Dan Olson? If so, could you help me to understand where he ranks in terms of the YouTube celebrity world? Is he OG YouTuber? Just curious
Are you talking about 'Folding Ideas' Dan Olson? If so, could you help me to understand where he ranks in terms of the YouTube celebrity world? Is he OG YouTuber?
He's been at it for about a decade, so I wouldn't call him "OG" like Jacksfilm or AVGN and, in terms of celebrity, he's only got about a million subscribers and that's a recent million too....
He's been at it for about a decade, so I wouldn't call him "OG" like Jacksfilm or AVGN and, in terms of celebrity, he's only got about a million subscribers and that's a recent million too.
Granted, I'm far removed from the celebrity side of YouTube but he's more akin to "your favorite YouTuber's favorite YouTuber" more than anything else. Having been on YouTube since it's creation, the only credentials I have here are being a living fossil record though.
So interesting. It's not the first time I've heard somebody fan over his work, which makes me super proud of what he's accomplished since we went to college together. Not super close, but he's...
So interesting. It's not the first time I've heard somebody fan over his work, which makes me super proud of what he's accomplished since we went to college together.
Not super close, but he's always been an interesting dude
I think on an online forum like this, it's enough to go with a "trust me I'm a subject matter expert" or lead with "as someone involved in this field ---". Almost none of us have even the casual...
I think on an online forum like this, it's enough to go with a "trust me I'm a subject matter expert" or lead with "as someone involved in this field ---". Almost none of us have even the casual pretend credentials to claim as such and no one will call you out on non verified creds. maybe I'm just being selfish but I'd love to see subject matter expert comments on many of our security / war threads. But I understand the fatigue certainly.
I've certainly reduced my digital fingerprint to a certain degree but my work also has a requirement of public appearances to go along with it, so my picture is already in the hands of people I'd...
I've certainly reduced my digital fingerprint to a certain degree but my work also has a requirement of public appearances to go along with it, so my picture is already in the hands of people I'd rather it not be. I get the caution though - the trick is just to colour your posts with regional slang from places you aren't, y tú tiras palabras in another language now and again, да? Throw 'em off the trail!
This comment speaks to my core. I have a master's degree in history and studied quite a bit of 20th century Middle East history. I'm not an expert, nor do I present myself as one, but I have a...
This comment speaks to my core. I have a master's degree in history and studied quite a bit of 20th century Middle East history. I'm not an expert, nor do I present myself as one, but I have a much better base of knowledge than your average user that confidently dishes out takes that are devoid of any meaningful historical context. It drives me crazy when I see it, and that's about information that can be found with a few trips to the library. I can only imagine the feeling when it's related to topics that require a specialist's knowledge and understanding to speak on.
*On the Internet It's not just on Tildes. From my observations, two most toxic forums in Polish Internet are, one about programming and another about electronics. They just sit on their computers...
I don't know why it's the Tech Men, but on Tildes, it always is.
*On the Internet
It's not just on Tildes. From my observations, two most toxic forums in Polish Internet are, one about programming and another about electronics.
They just sit on their computers all the time. That's why they are so prevalent on the Internet. I should say "we", because I also work as a software developer, but I don't identify as one of them species.
Also, IDK about other countries, but in Poland, software devs and other coders have been very lucky, because there was a huuuuuuuge demand for such skills lately and they became a group of very high salaried positions almost instantly. Without demand, from employers, of finishing any (not just good, any) IT/CS degree. Bootcamp, self-learn, etc. and booom! You're a software developer getting 2/3x salary of o ordinary people. And you don't need any legal eligibility. So it was pretty fast and easy, compared to other industries, where e.g. you have to finish X years and pass X certificates to become a judge, a medical doctor etc.
So boom, and we have plenty of „blacksmithes of their fate”. For them everybody else is lazy.
– I educated myself! I've changed my life by 180 degrees! WhY cAn'T yOu, LaZy BaStArD???
– No, you were lucky you are probably smart to some extent and you chose good industry in a good times.
– Bullshit! I've forged my destiny, because I'm motivated to educate! Stop complaining!
– ....
It's also the work that they do -- advanced problem solving where there's almost always an answer if you work hard enough at it. Sometimes in life, there is no answer. There may not even be a best...
It's also the work that they do -- advanced problem solving where there's almost always an answer if you work hard enough at it. Sometimes in life, there is no answer. There may not even be a best answer - something that doesn't fit the worldview of a software developer with an axe to grind.
I agree completely. There is a lot of "civil" discussion on Tilde's that just barely toes the rules (or dips over but goes undressed) because people aren't interested in an evolving discussion or...
I agree completely. There is a lot of "civil" discussion on Tilde's that just barely toes the rules (or dips over but goes undressed) because people aren't interested in an evolving discussion or viewpoints, but have this rigid world view they are defending.
I remember a distinctly frustrating experience trying to have a good faith discussion about AI, learning methods, and emergent sapience, having done a fair amount of graduate work in convex analysis and deep learning. And they just kept breaking my posts into bullet points devoid of context and nitpicking them or referencing obtuse wikipedia articles.
I'll add that it's not just tech guys, but that they make up a large and therefore visible user base here. I've tried answering very specific policy questions people have had, and gave specific accurate answers based on my first hand expertise, just to have them get upset/argue/etc.
I'm now in public health policy and technology related matters, and have a great deal of IRL experience and responsibilities regarding regulation, human subjects research, and distribution of federal assistance but can't post or talk too much about my specific appointments. And it is frustrating to have a discussion where people with seemingly no experience in public policy argue with you about their pet issue, or worse, make comments like "you shouldn't be allowed to be in public policy" because of small disagreements.
And I get that you can't just say "trust me I know" but you can make well reasoned statements without too many specific details just to have it discarded with offhand gibberish.
The problem (I think) is you get people who live and breath so deeply in niche sub-communities and issues that they get decompression sickness when coming up to wider viewpoints, and don't know how to translate their experiences/vocabulary/perspective in a way that isn't confrontational.
I'm also a news junkie, reading a fairly large volume of paid news sources daily, so am somewhat knowledgeable on events, and yeah, same issue on lots of topics as far as I can tell.
Or maybe I'm just incurably cantankerous! I'm also willing to entertain that possibility. 🙂
When it comes down to it, the medium just isn't conducive to expansionist conversations. Text is a nitpickers delight, and hardly the venue for expiratory conversations. I feel like a grump typing...
When it comes down to it, the medium just isn't conducive to expansionist conversations.
Text is a nitpickers delight, and hardly the venue for expiratory conversations.
I feel like a grump typing this, but it's evident on people's faces mid-twitter war.
Furrowed brow, closed mouth, bad vibes after -- there's none of the dynamism, time constraints or exchange of a conversation over coffee or at a pub and it makes for stale communication. That said, it's great for sarcasm, browbeating, bullying and sweet emojis... ❤️❤️❤️
Not a tech man but I do love military history and your areas of expertise sound super interesting. Any chance you would be willing to expand on or talk about your expertise? You could DM me if you...
area of expertise (security, conflict, warfare)
Not a tech man but I do love military history and your areas of expertise sound super interesting. Any chance you would be willing to expand on or talk about your expertise? You could DM me if you want to avoid random tech men commenting. Or I guess just ignore my request to, but as a retail sales manager, your expertise sounds a lot more interesting.
As an aside, I recently started listening to the Ologies podcast and have found myself in love with learning about other interesting professions.
Yes that’s when you can upvote and move on. There have been many times on tildes when the comments said all that seemed to be needed. On Reddit, sometimes someone will add a one-word comment...
Yes that’s when you can upvote and move on. There have been many times on tildes when the comments said all that seemed to be needed.
On Reddit, sometimes someone will add a one-word comment “this”. That’s pretty annoying, especially when “this” gets a lot of upvotes :)
Sometimes when you post things, it's reassuring to have people vocally agree with you. Perhaps you could occasionally respond to one of those comments with a "Yes, and I have this personal...
Sometimes when you post things, it's reassuring to have people vocally agree with you. Perhaps you could occasionally respond to one of those comments with a "Yes, and I have this personal anecdote to add to it"?
Is that not what the upvote button is for in practice? I will occasionally comment that I agree and expand on their comment or as a follow up if I have something else to add to the thread.
Is that not what the upvote button is for in practice?
I will occasionally comment that I agree and expand on their comment or as a follow up if I have something else to add to the thread.
Yes and no. Adding personal anecdotes don’t change the shape of a conversation, but they do add flavor and perspective, both things that should be welcomed and appreciated.
Yes and no. Adding personal anecdotes don’t change the shape of a conversation, but they do add flavor and perspective, both things that should be welcomed and appreciated.
I frequently don't have anything to really add to a conversation besides a personal anecdote here on Tildes, and rarely (if ever) of what I would consider to be Tildes Quality™. I've probably...
I frequently don't have anything to really add to a conversation besides a personal anecdote here on Tildes, and rarely (if ever) of what I would consider to be Tildes Quality™. I've probably written out and deleted more full comments than I've posted, and my comment count's not exactly zero either.
I think one of the issues at hand here may be that it feels like Tildes really likes high quality comments and it can feel like there's a bit of a barrier to entry if one's experiences, reflections, and even writing skills don't feel up to snuff. Or perhaps that's just my own insecurity talking...
FWIW, I feel like my personal anecdotes have been some of my "best" comments on Tildes. I'm not saying I comment to chase down upvotes, but I'm also not gonna lie and say that I don't check...
FWIW, I feel like my personal anecdotes have been some of my "best" comments on Tildes. I'm not saying I comment to chase down upvotes, but I'm also not gonna lie and say that I don't check comments after the fact to see how they're doing. And personal anecdotes, as long as they're relevant, seem to do well.
I get what you're saying with regards to "Tildes Quality™" comments. I will definitely type something up, only to hit "Cancel" an hour later. But I do that on reddit, too. Even in stupid subreddits.
But the anecdotes, I think, are some of the most important comments we have here. Because they can provide much needed to context to a discussion. There's plenty I'm not expert on, and I know this (and I'm a tech person! Referencing comments elsewhere in this thread ;) ). So sometimes I read these things here and I'm like "I don't really understand this and/or what the big deal is..." But then someone provides an anecdote, either to support an argument or go against one, and then I'm like "Oh OK, I see; that makes sense now why this thing or whatever is important! Because someone is experiencing it in this way!"
So, Idk. There's never been a comment that I've seen on Tildes where I'm like, "Man, that was worthless; why did they even say anything?" And frankly, I do think we need to move away from the Tildes Quality™ comments. Not saying abandon it completely. But for example, if I see little funny zinger comments, that's an immediate upvote. Because we need some levity around here! We're a community after all. Doesn't have to be all serious all the time.
I think you have plenty to contribute. Though there's nothing wrong with being a lurker, I think we all suffer by not hearing diverse experiences and viewpoints.
I love the anecdotes and I agree that they are some of the most important comments here. While we've gotten bigger over the years, Tildes is still small enough to recognize the majority of...
I love the anecdotes and I agree that they are some of the most important comments here. While we've gotten bigger over the years, Tildes is still small enough to recognize the majority of usernames. Knowing more about the individual behind the username really makes this place feel like a community. It also helps to keep the temperature down whenever there's a big disagreement.
I think that's just insecurity, honestly. The worst case scenarios for adding personal anecdotes would be that you either find someone who is offended about something that you wrote - which seems...
I think that's just insecurity, honestly. The worst case scenarios for adding personal anecdotes would be that you either find someone who is offended about something that you wrote - which seems kind of hard to do in this kind of scenario - or they label your comment as noise - something that you won't even be able to tell when it happens. Probably some 99.999% of the time someone reads your comment and doesn't like it, they simply pass over it without voting or labeling it. In a way you could say that you have everything to gain and nothing to lose. The systems are there to incentivize you to contribute your comments.
As far as I'm concerned, as long as your comments aren't thoughtless or inane, it is absolutely Tildes Quality™. And even then, I posted an inane comment right here in this very topic! Free yourself from your own expectations and you'll live an ever-so-slightly happier life for it.
I get that and I wouldn't just consider it insecurity. It's almost like wading into a social circle where all aspects of a talk are already examined, and that there's only room hair splitting the...
I get that and I wouldn't just consider it insecurity. It's almost like wading into a social circle where all aspects of a talk are already examined, and that there's only room hair splitting the points that make up the established consensus.
I won't lie - I often nod to the consensus and think "hmm, well that's a balanced set of arguments" whereas on Reddit (especially in geographical city subs) it's far more of a dog's breakfast of comments, philosophies and ideologies.
...but for a social community to remain so, people gotta talk. You do you, but personally, I err on the side of repeating what's already been said over silence.
I would consider personal anecdotes a substantive comment. My bar for “substantive” is pretty low. I’m talking about comments that are just simply “I agree!” without any extra content.
I would consider personal anecdotes a substantive comment. My bar for “substantive” is pretty low. I’m talking about comments that are just simply “I agree!” without any extra content.
It is, but doesn't that feel like the when the Like button was introduced on Facebook? You get the like metric, but at the expense of everybody weighing in with something original in the comments.
It is, but doesn't that feel like the when the Like button was introduced on Facebook? You get the like metric, but at the expense of everybody weighing in with something original in the comments.
You're right - I've been here six years and I can only recall a handful of times where things got out of hand. And maybe 3 or 4 times where an entire thread was locked/deleted. As someone who's...
You're right - I've been here six years and I can only recall a handful of times where things got out of hand. And maybe 3 or 4 times where an entire thread was locked/deleted. As someone who's been on the internet for a looooong time, I think Tildes is an exception simply because it's so small compared to other services.
Since you've been around the block too, you'll, remember how close to forums this feels. I've floated the idea of an avatar for each user, but no dice. Maybe I'll get some buy-in if I suggest that...
Since you've been around the block too, you'll, remember how close to forums this feels.
I've floated the idea of an avatar for each user, but no dice. Maybe I'll get some buy-in if I suggest that the photo be a maximum of 100x150 and come with a signature that appears on every post
Right again. It does feel like more of an old web forum. FWIW, I’d love avatars, even if they just showed up on your profile page or somewhere out of the way like that.
Right again. It does feel like more of an old web forum.
FWIW, I’d love avatars, even if they just showed up on your profile page or somewhere out of the way like that.
I'd agree. So much of what I post is just an attempt to elaborate on a nuanced subject. There's plenty of opinion to be shared about here on Tildes and rarely is a subject fully examined or jokes...
I'd agree. So much of what I post is just an attempt to elaborate on a nuanced subject. There's plenty of opinion to be shared about here on Tildes and rarely is a subject fully examined or jokes riffed on.
Tbh the community discussion threads are probably my favorite part of Tildes (shout out @kfwyre). Most links are to some niche I don't really care about but people, their situations, their ideas...
Tbh the community discussion threads are probably my favorite part of Tildes (shout out @kfwyre). Most links are to some niche I don't really care about but people, their situations, their ideas and dreams, that's interesting. Not to say we shouldn't post more links but I think we could post a little more everything.
Thanks for the shoutout! I’ll add that, for anyone who’s wanting to participate on Tildes but isn’t sure how or where to jump in, posting an ask topic is one of the easiest ways to get your feet...
Thanks for the shoutout!
I’ll add that, for anyone who’s wanting to participate on Tildes but isn’t sure how or where to jump in, posting an ask topic is one of the easiest ways to get your feet wet. Think of an interesting question you have, or some stories you’d like to hear, and then simply drop it in ~talk.
Most of ask topics I post take mere seconds to make, but people always take genuine time to give thoughtful responses (which is awesome).
That's an excellent point! Regarding comments, I can usually explain my lurking with "others are more eloquent, informed, or just earlier to say the thing I was going to say." But I don't have a...
That's an excellent point!
Regarding comments, I can usually explain my lurking with "others are more eloquent, informed, or just earlier to say the thing I was going to say." But I don't have a good reason for not posting links to things I find interesting.
Seeing you put in the effort of posting topic after topic with interesting content has actually pushed me to start contributing a little as well. I do so mainly by commenting more than I would...
Seeing you put in the effort of posting topic after topic with interesting content has actually pushed me to start contributing a little as well. I do so mainly by commenting more than I would naturally do, and a tiny bit by posting my first topic recently. I also started contributing code to the tildes repos, which is more my natural inclination.
I wonder if I ought to be gifting links from my The Times sub redbeardad has set up for me.... It's not a newspaper I'd choose to read, and in a way that makes it more interesting; the...
I wonder if I ought to be gifting links from my The Times sub redbeardad has set up for me.... It's not a newspaper I'd choose to read, and in a way that makes it more interesting; the perspectives are so very far off from mine (and those here) that they do tend to drive engagement.
Up till now that's been him and me creating a spectacle in the family chat.
On a side note, the goal is for as many users as possible to post one or two interesting things. If you post many links to things that interest you, people don’t like that and communities label...
On a side note, the goal is for as many users as possible to post one or two interesting things. If you post many links to things that interest you, people don’t like that and communities label you as a spammer. If you don’t post at all, you’re not helping provide new topics.
Some power users manage to provide great topics constantly, but they also tend to be very engaging in the comments.
There’s probably some sort of post to comment ratio that is the best balance to strive for.
I agree that we don’t want people to start dumping lots of links. However, some uncontroversial links just get upvotes. I think that can be taken as a sign that they’re appreciated, even if...
I agree that we don’t want people to start dumping lots of links. However, some uncontroversial links just get upvotes. I think that can be taken as a sign that they’re appreciated, even if there’s no discussion?
I'm a lurker and I have always been. I want to post more but the thoughts don't flow as easily as I imagine it does for others. The content we consume shapes us and the world we live in (and even...
I'm a lurker and I have always been. I want to post more but the thoughts don't flow as easily as I imagine it does for others. The content we consume shapes us and the world we live in (and even more so as technology marches on at connecting us and summarizing us).
So I believe we need more participants, we need more voices and we need more diversity of thought. The more content created by the less typical "content-producer", the better the community.
Also I'm not talking about one word comments like "first" or "yes". And I'm not talking about single sentence comments that lack the ability for follow up (ex. puns or jokes). And not just another trill from the hive mind.
I'm talking about an echo of your person, something that partially shows something about you. We each have unique experiences and something to contribute. I feel like that's what tildes is about and it's what I meant by tildes-worthy.
The current 10% is not good enough. They are a small portion of us and they aren't representative. You ever find yourself reading through posts or comments and not seeing yourself in any of them? It's not because you don't belong, it's because the many others that are just like you, are like you and they are also a lurker. This isn't a knock on the current 10% but rather a call to the 90% of us to go ahead and participate.
I'm ND and it might be coming out through my writing. It might be a bit less structured, less cohesive, more cringe, and more preachy than the typical post but I think that's what I was going for. I wanted an example for the bar to be low to increase participation but I also want the bar to still ask for your individualality.
What do you think? Am I wrong and it should it stay as the 10%? Am I right and can we have a majority that participates? Maybe you have tangent that is related?
Not to dismiss your overall point, but from my perspective, I disagree. I am also a lurker and that is who I am. I don't often form strong opinions and so I don't feel the need to express them....
Not to dismiss your overall point, but from my perspective, I disagree. I am also a lurker and that is who I am. I don't often form strong opinions and so I don't feel the need to express them. And when I read about a topic I don't know much about, I actually think it's better to stay quiet to avoid adding to the noise. This is especially true for political, scientific, or other important topics. I feel like the constant noise on those topics has been harmful to society as a whole. On those matters we should hear from experts and no one else. If I have a clarification question, that's reasonable, but no one needs to hear my "hot take." People are generally better off without hearing "hot takes."
I'm not a lurker everywhere, though; I am quite active on /r/composting and /r/Permaculture, but there's no equivalent here. There are plenty of people here who are interested in gardening/homesteading/etc., but there's nowhere here to focus on those topics other than scattered threads. This isn't the place for a discussion of those specifics. For example, few people here care that yesterday I collected 4 gallons of coffee grounds, 3 gallons of Mexican food, and 2 gallons of veggie scraps to add to my compost operation (though if you're interested in a less-specific discussion of that, here's a recent post).
Not that I'm trying to dismiss your ideas! I'm sure you're right to encourage lurkers to overcome any anxiety about it and share their thoughts. But some lurkers, like me, surely have good reasons to keep quiet.
Plus I often browse Tildes on my phone, and I'm not logged in there (and hate typing on my phone anyway).
I've stopped posting on Reddit (after 15+ years), but I do miss quality posts like yours on permaculture, for example. That's quite the haul for your beautiful flock! What happened to poor...
I've stopped posting on Reddit (after 15+ years), but I do miss quality posts like yours on permaculture, for example. That's quite the haul for your beautiful flock! What happened to poor Peckbeak?
We're trying very hard to resist getting more birds. -..- there's only so much time in a day
A joke I read about getting more chickens: it takes as much time to care for 20 chickens as it does 10, so why not get 40? I have sorta found that to be true, but from the moment I planned to get...
A joke I read about getting more chickens: it takes as much time to care for 20 chickens as it does 10, so why not get 40? I have sorta found that to be true, but from the moment I planned to get chickens, I planned on an Edible Acres-style chicken composting system, so I've been working toward this for a long time and am surely biased because of it.
I think we've finally figured out Peckbeak's story (/u/datavoid might be interested too): I know for sure that my son (~6 at the time) was too rough with her and had trouble understanding that this was problematic. What I'm pretty sure happened as a result was that he threw her near the rooster and the rooster reacted in that moment the way roosters do. My son was horrified and absolutely learned his lesson, but Peckbeak died because of it. It took us over a year to get that full story, but he has always maintained that he didn't directly kill her and that the rooster was involved.
Ahhh, a sad and unfortunate lesson learned. :( animals can be a little scary to kids (and adults), especially if they're not behaving in a way we expected or understand. And then Roo's are Roo's...
Ahhh, a sad and unfortunate lesson learned. :( animals can be a little scary to kids (and adults), especially if they're not behaving in a way we expected or understand. And then Roo's are Roo's with their own Roo things going on in their little tiny Roo brains. A tragedy all around. I hope your son feels better about the incident and can move forward and continue to love the birds.
Often times, I don't post because I know the audience here doesn't exactly like what I have to say. I also often don't post because not everything requires a response, let alone a response from...
Often times, I don't post because I know the audience here doesn't exactly like what I have to say. I also often don't post because not everything requires a response, let alone a response from me.
One of the things I wish more people would realize, is that not everything requires your input. You can read a thing, and not comment on it.
I wonder if the community here would welcome a sort of label that specifies "controversial / against the grain, do not reply". My instinct is "no", because Tildes is not a free speech type of...
I wonder if the community here would welcome a sort of label that specifies "controversial / against the grain, do not reply". My instinct is "no", because Tildes is not a free speech type of place. And i guess it doesn't need to be.
Sometimes those conversations are best held in private, with people we already have some rapport with, where we feel ready to extend the highest degree of good faith, possibly friendship and willingness to feel challenged, and acceptance that we will end the conversation with more understanding if not more common ground gained.
Would anyone on Tildes be willing to try having "hard conversations" together in good faith, and agree going in that we will try our best not to carrying hard feelings outside of that conversation space? One of the ground rules, I think, would be not come back here and say "well I know Chocobean is [whatever] because of what she said there, and that's why she is saying this here". Would Deimos want to Host that kind of conversation or take it elsewhere sort of thing?
For my part, I don't think it's a matter of politics per se. My politics tend to align with most people here, insofar as I've seen what people voice on Tildes. I am, however, very outspoken - both...
For my part, I don't think it's a matter of politics per se. My politics tend to align with most people here, insofar as I've seen what people voice on Tildes. I am, however, very outspoken - both here and in meatspace - on a few topics, several of which have been under more intense public scrutiny since ... say, May of 2020. It's on those topics that I've run into the most problematic pushback. I'll leave that topic here, as going further would derail the conversation here.
In terms of making a "hard conversations" space, speaking for myself ... I don't think it's a good idea, at least not for the topics I'm envisioning. Nor do I think that a "controversial" label would be of benefit. I agree that some conversations are better held in private - and if that's the case, a private conversation can be had in DMs (if someone feels that it needs to happen involving Tildes). Creation of a "controversial topics" space would only segregate certain topics, such that they don't get visibility and they would get a limited, and likely argumentative and stubborn audience.
I think that makes your opinions more important. We don't want Tildes to be another echo chamber. You do need a thick skin though, because you will get some harsh bad-faith replies if you post...
Often times, I don't post because I know the audience here doesn't exactly like what I have to say.
I think that makes your opinions more important. We don't want Tildes to be another echo chamber.
You do need a thick skin though, because you will get some harsh bad-faith replies if you post opposing viewpoints. At least you won't get downvoted below the visibility threshold on Tildes like you will on Reddit.
I regret to inform you that Tildes is another echo chamber, though. It is largely a personally-selected group of people (initially by Deimos, secondarily by other users) that is not open to the...
I regret to inform you that Tildes is another echo chamber, though. It is largely a personally-selected group of people (initially by Deimos, secondarily by other users) that is not open to the "general public". Not just anyone can join, and given the generally slow rate of growth it also exerts certain selection pressures on who actually sticks around.
Re: bad faith replies ... again, that's why I don't post as often as I could/should on topics that I'm passionate about. Because the vast majority of replies feel like bad faith. That's probably not the case, and I also know that I'm quite stubborn - but when something feels objectively one way, it can be very, very hard to dissuade me from standing firm in my convictions.
There's a quote from Jason Kay of Jamiroquai that has stuck with me for decades at this point. It was on the liner notes of one of the group's albums ... I think it was Emergency On Planet Earth:
Know which side you're standing on, don't let people tell you you're wrong when you know you're right.
I feel like that's more reason to post than not. If you have strength in your beliefs, then a bunch of people telling you you're wrong shouldn't change anything. Is what it is. I also wouldn't...
Know which side you're standing on, don't let people tell you you're wrong when you know you're right.
I feel like that's more reason to post than not. If you have strength in your beliefs, then a bunch of people telling you you're wrong shouldn't change anything. Is what it is.
I also wouldn't feel pressured to reply. Online forums are more akin to a presidential debate (not in magnitude, just in format) than a conversation where you're obligated to reply. If you've said your piece, and don't think there's much more to add, or just are feeling lazy (Tildes is just a small online forum - it's not that important, in the end), then just ignore the replies.
Standing firm doesn't imply that you need to argue everyone else into submission (cuz that'll never actually happen). It can also be that you read the replies and go "ok, anyway".
See, I'm of the opinion that simply putting a thought into the universe, one which no one will receive in its intended meaning nor will anyone internalize ... is pointless. I'll refer to a quote...
See, I'm of the opinion that simply putting a thought into the universe, one which no one will receive in its intended meaning nor will anyone internalize ... is pointless. I'll refer to a quote from the book Hagakure, by Yamamoto Tsunetomo, at the bottom of this post.
If I just post a thought/opinion/criticism/whatever with the sole intention of voicing it, but without having an honest discussion or an argument (good version) in which all parties walk away with a better understanding ... what is the point? It's akin to standing in a crowded public square, shouting "I think we should stop driving cars!", no one paying attention, and everyone just going about their day. It has no effect and might as well have never been said.
Hence, I do not post as often as I could. I've seen the wider response to my musings on topics that I'm passionate about, and said musings don't move the needle around here. I could go on and on about why I think that's the case, but I won't - because when I have, it does not get received in the manner intended, nor does it go anywhere constructive.
So I lurk, mostly. I do post from time to time (like now, where there's a conversation to be had). But for the most part, I don't.
It is very easy to stand with conviction on my principles, and as you said - a bunch of people telling me I'm wrong won't change that. So I don't need to go online picking proverbial fights to remain steadfast on my convictions. Again, this raises the question - why post?
Quote from the Hagakure::
To give a person one’s opinion and correct his faults is an important thing. It is compassionate and comes first in matters of service. But the way of doing this is extremely difficult. To discover the good and bad points of a person is an easy thing, and to give an opinion concerning them is easy, too. For the most part, people think that they are being kind by saying the things that others find distasteful or difficult to say. But if it is not received well, they think that there is nothing more to be done. This is completely worthless. It is the same as bringing shame to a person by slandering him. It is nothing more than getting it off one’s chest.
To give a person an opinion one must first judge well whether that person is of the disposition to receive it or not. One must become close with him and make sure that he continually trusts one’s word. Approaching subjects that are dear to him, seek the best way to speak and to be well understood. Judge the occasion, and determine whether it is better by letter or at the time of leave-taking. Praise his good points and use every device to encourage him, perhaps by talking about one’s own faults without touching on his, but so that they will occur to him. Have him receive this in the way that a man would drink water when his throat is dry, and it will be an opinion that will correct faults.
This is extremely difficult. If a person’s fault is a habit of some years prior, by and large it won’t be remedied. I have had this experience myself. To be intimate with all one’s comrades, correcting each other’s faults, and being of one mind to be of use to the master is the great compassion of a retainer. By bringing shame to a person, how could one expect to make him a better man?
I lurk, therefore I am. 99% of the times I am on this site are when I have brief downtimes at work, to clear my mind, to allow me to focus better after a few minutes. There isn't enough time for...
I lurk, therefore I am.
99% of the times I am on this site are when I have brief downtimes at work, to clear my mind, to allow me to focus better after a few minutes. There isn't enough time for me to form coherent thoughts and followup on responses. Plus I often have nothing of value to add, much like what I'm writing right now.
I think, in some cases and communities, it's fine to stay a lurker. I've attended plenty of lectures on topics I was interested in, only to quickly realize I did not understand the material as...
I think, in some cases and communities, it's fine to stay a lurker. I've attended plenty of lectures on topics I was interested in, only to quickly realize I did not understand the material as deeply as I thought and had nothing to contribute. I sat and took in information and didn't ask anything during the discussion because people who knew a lot more than me were asking questions that I hardly understood as well.
I do not post on Discuit. I go there every now and again to look at images. I don't post on Hacker News. My technical knowledge is lower than the average contributor... But let either of those communities start talking about human fire usage in Aboriginal Australia or the American Southwest prior to the Spanish resettlement and I'll create an account and contribute.
That said, everyone has some niche! Everyone can be a quality contributor! Then again, here, I already post. I'd be more interested in topics that I feel I can't contribute to - any Mongolian Horse Breeders available to post about how the social climate impacts you? Any neat changes to your regional tax code causing an uproar? People often feel like "no one wants to hear about my high altitude basket weaving business," and decide not to share those stories but my lack of knowledge of them specifically makes me interested.
The "10%" so to speak is probably disproportional here as the barrier for entry is just "text." You don't have to keep up with memes, you're not fighting 10,000 comment posts, you just have to see a topic and type.
Do you feel the "quality" requirement discourages participation? I don't think ever user is going to participate in every post but I feel like a majority participation is possible here more than, say, YouTube comments sections.
I generally agree with you that we could do with more venues where more people were able and willing to comment. I think though, that it takes a lot energy to put real commentary out there. Energy...
I generally agree with you that we could do with more venues where more people were able and willing to comment.
I think though, that it takes a lot energy to put real commentary out there. Energy to read and consider not just the source material but the other comments, energy to formulate a response, energy to engage with responses to your comments, etc. My posting here is generally a measure of my available bandwidth.
I like posting here because I know that if there is a response to what I write, there will usually be a reciprocal effort put into that response. But that's pretty rare online. When I started out on Reddit, I would make a real effort to engage, only to be met with a "lol whut?" or a bad faith character attack. It feels like screaming into the void, and it doesn't take much of that to make it feel Not Worth It.
So yes, we need it. But I see it as a supply side problem (in terms of creating safe spaces), more than a problem with people's willingness to engage.
I'm be curious to see if Tildes does indeed fall under the 90-9-1 rule, or if its smaller, less volatile vibe encourages at least slightly more participation. In any case it's great that you're...
I'm be curious to see if Tildes does indeed fall under the 90-9-1 rule, or if its smaller, less volatile vibe encourages at least slightly more participation.
In any case it's great that you're posting, don't stop here!
Considering that particular article is nearly 20 years old and before the rise of social media as we know it today, I'm curious if the ratio has shifted at all and how the design of a platform can...
Considering that particular article is nearly 20 years old and before the rise of social media as we know it today, I'm curious if the ratio has shifted at all and how the design of a platform can affect it. Tildes might encourage lurking more relative to Reddit with the "post a comment" section at the bottom of the thread rather than immediately below the post, so while scrolling past other comments you may come across someone else making a similar comment so you upvote that instead of posting something similar yourself before noticing.
As something of an experiment, I stopped commenting on Reddit (and more specifically the one subreddit I've been mostly active in) at the start of July. In the past decade I've only gone about 210 calendar days without making any comments (the longest streak prior to this one being 9 days) and I've written tens of thousands in total so it wasn't a small shift to lurk more than usual but rather a forceful disconnect. I initially thought I'd want to stop visiting Reddit as much with that restriction but that hasn't really been the case; I'd already taken steps to disengage active participation in most other subreddits following the 2023 protest but I still frequently lurked in a good number of them and this just changed it to lurking everywhere.
Am I better off personally? I'm inclined to say no since I still spend close to the same amount of time there but it's probably a bit less stressful not actively being involved in arguments and there is a small amount of time I spend actively doing other things rather than writing comments now. Do I want to jump back into conversations with people I've known for years there? Sure, it's like having an itch I want to scratch. I'm a lurker in a lot of places but it feels weird to have my "home" community become another one of those.
I think one reason why I don't comment as much on Tildes is that I feel like my comments should have more effort than I frequently put into my comments on Reddit; not that I'd consider them low effort but they'd frequently be a paragraph at most. For example my comment about anime I've been watching recently would have been at least five or six comments spread out over weeks with separate ones about each show, often my first impressions and final thoughts would be split up with some minor observations in between.
I see your point about pulling back on Reddit posting - largely because engaging in arguments is so taxing. At some point, the desire to correct misinformation or have your point heart gave way to...
I see your point about pulling back on Reddit posting - largely because engaging in arguments is so taxing. At some point, the desire to correct misinformation or have your point heart gave way to the loathing of the whole process.
The feeling was worse when I was on Facebook and the platform began its devolution into anonymous likes (or bets being placed) for those engaged in an argument.
When I was (ahem ... am) on Reddit, I'm almost entirely a lurker except when I have problems a niche subreddit may have an answer to. Been like this for almost my entire existence on reddit,...
When I was (ahem ... am) on Reddit, I'm almost entirely a lurker except when I have problems a niche subreddit may have an answer to. Been like this for almost my entire existence on reddit, outside a brief few months when i contributed heavily in a niche i was interested in, which I ultimately dipped out of after the subreddit went through drama I wasn't interested in.
When I decided to join Tildes, I made a commitment to try and actively participate, since the style of commenting/discussions is what drew me to join and I wanted contribute.
It's not always easy to overcome my lurkiness! Sometimes I go days or possibly weeks consuming but writing no/barely any comments; then I'll get in a certain mood and have a flurry of participation (guess how I'm feeling at this moment ;). Often, I write out big comments and then delete them before posting, feeling like they're not good, or I can't figure out how to express what I mean so I abandon trying altogether.
At least now, though, I feel my effort has paid off in the sense that I don't feel particularly self-conscious commenting. :)
I think you're coming at this from a poor reference point. The article you've referenced is originally from 2006, barely into the heyday of Web 2.0, and long before the existing 'place' that is...
I think you're coming at this from a poor reference point. The article you've referenced is originally from 2006, barely into the heyday of Web 2.0, and long before the existing 'place' that is the modern web environment. Jakob Nielsen might be an accomplished Web 1.0 and Web 2.0 guru, but the ideas he caters to are a relic of a previous era, long before the wide spread of social media in the late 2010s, and LLMs in the early 2020s.
But even with Tildes working to create some of the online community and simplicity of earlier web generations, I don't think this material is applicable. In all honesty, I don't trust the source that you cite here to apply to Tildes for multiple reasons. For one:
Tildes is an invite only community
The content on Tildes has a fairly broad spectrum appeal, i.e. a significant amount of the content here isn't for everyone. (For example, I as a non-dog owner don't feel the need to comment on a post about dog walking I saw on the feed today.)
The people invited to Tildes are often coming from platforms that have experienced platform decay, often caused by drives for more 'user engagement.'
Tildes encourages users to post quality posts and comments, not quantity - the metric described in the source.
This is not commenting on hard data of the posting / habits of Tildes users. While Tildes may reflect this breakdown, it also might not. I don't think that data is publicly available, and I'm not sure I'd want it to be.
We shouldn't feel the need to comment or post more, we should comment on things that we feel comfortable giving quality comments to. Sometimes, there's a lot we can speak on. Other times, it's better to sit back and watch quality debates happen as lurkers.
In the end though, it's up to the individual user to decide their participation level. It's ultimately a personal question.
Oh, cool, a reason to log in. I can't speak for the speechless, but I'd guess that the "tildes-worthy" modifier has barred a significant percentage of lurkers from commenting: broadcasting your...
Oh, cool, a reason to log in.
I can't speak for the speechless, but I'd guess that the "tildes-worthy" modifier has barred a significant percentage of lurkers from commenting: broadcasting your voice into cyberspace can be anxiety-inducing -- ironically, especially on anonymous discussion boards like Tildes. Out here, you're no longer backed by the authority and stature of your real identity; you are your words.
It would be easier, I think, if I had a larger presence on this website. But I don't, and starting from scratch is scary. What if I misrepresent myself? What if my thoughts are disliked? What if the account becomes an obligation? From this thread, it appears these concerns are common.
Additionally: a maybe-selfish point, but what do I get out of posting? Friends? There are more efficient ways to find them. Validation? I'm okay, thanks. Different perspectives? I don't need to contribute to get those; I can just read. Conversation? I prefer speech. The one exception is teaching -- probably 90% of my online posts are explanations, guides, etc. -- but not so much on this website. Y'all are already pretty damn smart.
Leaving a comment. As my standard, here is an overly verbose comment bordering on insanity, but I am limited on time, so, engage number one. We're acquainted with the wormhole phenomenon, but...
Leaving a comment.
As my standard, here is an overly verbose comment bordering on insanity, but I am limited on time, so, engage number one.
We're acquainted with the wormhole phenomenon, but this... Is a remarkable piece of bio-electronic engineering by which I see much of the EM spectrum ranging from heat and infrared through radio waves, et cetera, and forgive me if I've said and listened to this a thousand times. This planet's interior heat provides an abundance of geothermal energy. We need to neutralize the homing signal.
Deflector power at maximum. Energy discharge in six seconds. Warp reactor core primary coolant failure. Fluctuate phaser resonance frequencies. Resistance is futile. Recommend we adjust shield harmonics to the upper EM band when proceeding. These appear to be some kind of power-wave-guide conduits which allow them to work collectively as they perform ship functions. Increase deflector modulation to upper frequency band.
I have reset the sensors to scan for frequencies outside the usual range. By emitting harmonic vibrations to shatter the lattices. We will monitor and adjust the frequency of the resonators. He has this ability of instantly interpreting and extrapolating any verbal communication he hears. It may be due to the envelope over the structure, causing hydrogen-carbon helix patterns throughout. I'm comparing the molecular integrity of that bubble against our phasers.
It indicates a synchronic distortion in the areas emanating triolic waves. The cerebellum, the cerebral cortex, the brain stem, the entire nervous system has been depleted of electrochemical energy. Any device like that would produce high levels of triolic waves. These walls have undergone some kind of selective molecular polarization. I haven't determined if our phaser energy can generate a stable field. We could alter the photons with phase discriminators.
Run a manual sweep of anomalous airborne or electromagnetic readings. Radiation levels in our atmosphere have increased by 3,000 percent. Electromagnetic and subspace wave fronts approaching synchronization. What is the strength of the ship's deflector shields at maximum output? The wormhole's size and short period would make this a local phenomenon. Do you have sufficient data to compile a holographic simulation?
Now what are the possibilities of warp drive? Cmdr Riker's nervous system has been invaded by an unknown microorganism. The organisms fuse to the nerve, intertwining at the molecular level. That's why the transporter's biofilters couldn't extract it. The vertex waves show a K-complex corresponding to an REM state. The engineering section's critical. Destruction is imminent. Their robes contain ultritium, highly explosive, virtually undetectable by your transporter.
Shields up. I recommend we transfer power to phasers and arm the photon torpedoes. Something strange on the detector circuit. The weapons must have disrupted our communicators. You saw something as tasty as meat, but inorganically materialized out of patterns used by our transporters. Captain, the most elementary and valuable statement in science, the beginning of wisdom, is 'I do not know.' All transporters off.
And then there's members like me, who, without using Lorem Ipsum, generate so much drivel, the site flags my comments with a "slow down" counter before I can hit Comment again :|
And then there's members like me, who, without using Lorem Ipsum, generate so much drivel, the site flags my comments with a "slow down" counter before I can hit Comment again :|
My comment is very simple. And a few points. 1.) this is quickly becoming my favorite social media site. I am a lurker and read it every few days. A question: 2.). How many users are there on...
My comment is very simple. And a few points.
1.) this is quickly becoming my favorite social media site. I am a lurker and read it every few days.
A question:
2.). How many users are there on Tildes?
Was it developed 100% by the community or was it a paid site that developed that core product?
There are 25348 subscribers to ~tildes.official, but that's only a somewhat accurate count of how many users have registered since the site began. However, a significant amount of those users are...
How many users are there on Tildes?
There are 25348 subscribers to ~tildes.official, but that's only a somewhat accurate count of how many users have registered since the site began. However, a significant amount of those users are likely completely inactive so it's not a very accurate active user count. And if I had to guesstimate, just based on the level of overall activity here, I'd say there are probably 6-10k still active accounts, maybe 1k of whom semi-regularly comment/post topics. Only @Deimos would be able to give a more accurate active user count though.
Was it developed 100% by the community or was it a paid site that developed that core product?
Tildes has only one admin and main developer, @Deimos. He did the majority of the work, but there have been a decent amount of open-source contributions over the years too though. See: Tildes Gitlab page.
Tildes has never been a paid site, nor did it derive from one. It's always operated as a Canadian registered non-profit, and always been entirely donation driven. If you're interested in learning more about the site, see: The Announcing Tildes blog post and Tildes docs.
I mainly lurk and occasionally pop in with a comment when I feel like I have something worth contributing to. I think due to the size of the community, there are only so many things that I'll feel...
I mainly lurk and occasionally pop in with a comment when I feel like I have something worth contributing to. I think due to the size of the community, there are only so many things that I'll feel like I want to or have the time to engage in.
I have tried posting some questions threads or sharing some links occasionally for things that I'm interested in, and lately I've not been doing those as I usually like to reply to people when they comment on the thread and I feel like I've not got as much time/don't go on Tildes as often these days.
Tildes definitely makes me want to contribute more to help things feel more active when I have time.
My first real foray into online life revolved around forums and the close-knit weirdos on them. At different times I've been the 90%, the 9%, and the 1%. The internet was such a crutch for me....
My first real foray into online life revolved around forums and the close-knit weirdos on them. At different times I've been the 90%, the 9%, and the 1%. The internet was such a crutch for me. That has been true on Tildes too, though on this account I am in the 90%.
Between Reddit migration, the state of the world, and the slowness of Tildes, what used to be so regular to me is gone. I can still doom scroll, but I've pared down so much and disengaged so much I tend to run out of content within an hour nowadays. I enjoy simplifying my life, but miss the weird fun things I used to uncover before. I also miss the self-expression outlet, the knowledgeable subcultures, and discussing things like TV shows. However, while I worry about being out of touch with stuff like internet security and whatnot, I am sort of okay being out of the loop on things even at the cost of bonding with others. I had no idea what the CEO cheating scandal was until my partner mentioned it to me. I don't know or care what restaurants have opened. I'm increasingly unfashionable. It's fine.
On the article:
In general, I'm not a fan of reviews. I see why they exist, but largely, I prefer something more natural. They mention recommendation algorithms based on purchasing history, but I'd also say that I like how on platforms like say, Amazon Prime, it does automatically thumbs up things I complete watching. I think there's so much work to be done in easily and accurately gathering feedback in a manner that resonates with people.
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve written a comment here on tildes and then deleted it instead of posting it. The kind of comment I’m talking about takes me a long time to write; I’ve either...
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve written a comment here on tildes and then deleted it instead of posting it. The kind of comment I’m talking about takes me a long time to write; I’ve either decided it’s gone off topic, is too wordy, or that I’ll get smacked down in a reply to it and I can’t deal with that at the moment.
One of my very first public communications on the internet was asking a question in on a LISP/Scheme mailing list that was very well known for being harsh on users with insufficiently researched questions. I spent a week researching my question, making absolutely sure it hadn’t already been addressed either there or someplace else on the internet in a time before stack overflow. Finally I asked and expected to get a lot of mean replies. Instead I got solidarity, lots of people were having the same issue.
I’ve kind of gone in the opposite direction here; I felt fairly relaxed at first but my expectation of getting a negative response to what I write has gone up instead of down. I like the discussions that happen, but participating is really stressful for me unless I’m doing something like asking a question.
I find a good majority of the time I simply can't think of anything productive or interesting to say, and I figure it's better not to say anything at all than add noise. By the time I see any...
I find a good majority of the time I simply can't think of anything productive or interesting to say, and I figure it's better not to say anything at all than add noise. By the time I see any thread, even one that interests me, it's often at least a day old or so, and so the conversation has already been had - anything I tried to contribute I would have to force. It would feel like inserting myself into a conversation that already happened, just for the point of "having responded"!
That's valid. Though I do want to point out that Tildes has various ways of sorting threads. Including based on activity, which works more like old school forums. People actively use that on...
That's valid. Though I do want to point out that Tildes has various ways of sorting threads. Including based on activity, which works more like old school forums. People actively use that on tildes as well, I am still talking on and off with some people in certain threads that are weeks old by this point.
So, I am often not surprised if someone replies to something I commented a few days later. You'll also find that it sometimes will kickstart the discussion again.
Anyway, no pressure, just wanted to point out that tildes works slightly differently from things like reddit in that regard.
I mostly don’t comment often simply because I only do so when I have something of substance to add. A lot of times, people have already said what I wanted to say, so there’s no point in repeating it.
Too bright out here. Going back to the shadows.
From watching Dan Olson's 'Line goes up' enough times, I can confidently state that tech people understand one really complicated thing and think that therefore all complex things are in their grasp...
Tech guys are also terminally online so you see more of them. Many MBAs I know have told me about how the Art of War can teach you about business, I only know one who's ever been in a firefight... And he's never read Sun Tzu.
Tech Guys are like the much lower bar version of Nobelitis, in which winners of the Nobel prize go on to espouse ridiculous views on a subject they're not experts on, unfortunately for all. :/
Doctors and lawyers are also this way.
I (a Tech Man) was just having this exact conversation with a friend, as part of explaining why "computer people" are probably the very last people you should listen to on topics like philosophy and ethics.
Given that many of my peers questioned why we had to take an ethics course at all (which is explained in that very course), I agree that we shouldn't be listened to. Tech Men are how we got the crypto boom, and the AI boom, and whatever wasteful new tech comes next.
Are you talking about 'Folding Ideas' Dan Olson? If so, could you help me to understand where he ranks in terms of the YouTube celebrity world? Is he OG YouTuber?
Just curious
He's been at it for about a decade, so I wouldn't call him "OG" like Jacksfilm or AVGN and, in terms of celebrity, he's only got about a million subscribers and that's a recent million too.
Granted, I'm far removed from the celebrity side of YouTube but he's more akin to "your favorite YouTuber's favorite YouTuber" more than anything else. Having been on YouTube since it's creation, the only credentials I have here are being a living fossil record though.
So interesting. It's not the first time I've heard somebody fan over his work, which makes me super proud of what he's accomplished since we went to college together.
Not super close, but he's always been an interesting dude
I think on an online forum like this, it's enough to go with a "trust me I'm a subject matter expert" or lead with "as someone involved in this field ---". Almost none of us have even the casual pretend credentials to claim as such and no one will call you out on non verified creds. maybe I'm just being selfish but I'd love to see subject matter expert comments on many of our security / war threads. But I understand the fatigue certainly.
I've certainly reduced my digital fingerprint to a certain degree but my work also has a requirement of public appearances to go along with it, so my picture is already in the hands of people I'd rather it not be. I get the caution though - the trick is just to colour your posts with regional slang from places you aren't, y tú tiras palabras in another language now and again, да? Throw 'em off the trail!
Fair :P the war thunder guys probably didn't think they were silly either when they started. Good habits are the best protection
Why not leave the comments unengaged with? I’ve done that a few times on Tildes. No one has come looking for me afterwards.
This comment speaks to my core. I have a master's degree in history and studied quite a bit of 20th century Middle East history. I'm not an expert, nor do I present myself as one, but I have a much better base of knowledge than your average user that confidently dishes out takes that are devoid of any meaningful historical context. It drives me crazy when I see it, and that's about information that can be found with a few trips to the library. I can only imagine the feeling when it's related to topics that require a specialist's knowledge and understanding to speak on.
*On the Internet
It's not just on Tildes. From my observations, two most toxic forums in Polish Internet are, one about programming and another about electronics.
They just sit on their computers all the time. That's why they are so prevalent on the Internet. I should say "we", because I also work as a software developer, but I don't identify as one of them species.
Also, IDK about other countries, but in Poland, software devs and other coders have been very lucky, because there was a huuuuuuuge demand for such skills lately and they became a group of very high salaried positions almost instantly. Without demand, from employers, of finishing any (not just good, any) IT/CS degree. Bootcamp, self-learn, etc. and booom! You're a software developer getting 2/3x salary of o ordinary people. And you don't need any legal eligibility. So it was pretty fast and easy, compared to other industries, where e.g. you have to finish X years and pass X certificates to become a judge, a medical doctor etc.
So boom, and we have plenty of „blacksmithes of their fate”. For them everybody else is lazy.
– I educated myself! I've changed my life by 180 degrees! WhY cAn'T yOu, LaZy BaStArD???
– No, you were lucky you are probably smart to some extent and you chose good industry in a good times.
– Bullshit! I've forged my destiny, because I'm motivated to educate! Stop complaining!
– ....
It's also the work that they do -- advanced problem solving where there's almost always an answer if you work hard enough at it. Sometimes in life, there is no answer. There may not even be a best answer - something that doesn't fit the worldview of a software developer with an axe to grind.
I agree completely. There is a lot of "civil" discussion on Tilde's that just barely toes the rules (or dips over but goes undressed) because people aren't interested in an evolving discussion or viewpoints, but have this rigid world view they are defending.
I remember a distinctly frustrating experience trying to have a good faith discussion about AI, learning methods, and emergent sapience, having done a fair amount of graduate work in convex analysis and deep learning. And they just kept breaking my posts into bullet points devoid of context and nitpicking them or referencing obtuse wikipedia articles.
I'll add that it's not just tech guys, but that they make up a large and therefore visible user base here. I've tried answering very specific policy questions people have had, and gave specific accurate answers based on my first hand expertise, just to have them get upset/argue/etc.
I'm now in public health policy and technology related matters, and have a great deal of IRL experience and responsibilities regarding regulation, human subjects research, and distribution of federal assistance but can't post or talk too much about my specific appointments. And it is frustrating to have a discussion where people with seemingly no experience in public policy argue with you about their pet issue, or worse, make comments like "you shouldn't be allowed to be in public policy" because of small disagreements.
And I get that you can't just say "trust me I know" but you can make well reasoned statements without too many specific details just to have it discarded with offhand gibberish.
The problem (I think) is you get people who live and breath so deeply in niche sub-communities and issues that they get decompression sickness when coming up to wider viewpoints, and don't know how to translate their experiences/vocabulary/perspective in a way that isn't confrontational.
I'm also a news junkie, reading a fairly large volume of paid news sources daily, so am somewhat knowledgeable on events, and yeah, same issue on lots of topics as far as I can tell.
Or maybe I'm just incurably cantankerous! I'm also willing to entertain that possibility. 🙂
When it comes down to it, the medium just isn't conducive to expansionist conversations.
Text is a nitpickers delight, and hardly the venue for expiratory conversations.
I feel like a grump typing this, but it's evident on people's faces mid-twitter war.
Furrowed brow, closed mouth, bad vibes after -- there's none of the dynamism, time constraints or exchange of a conversation over coffee or at a pub and it makes for stale communication. That said, it's great for sarcasm, browbeating, bullying and sweet emojis... ❤️❤️❤️
At least from my own past experience, it's the financial guys who seem to have the most staunch opinions like that. Haha
Not a tech man but I do love military history and your areas of expertise sound super interesting. Any chance you would be willing to expand on or talk about your expertise? You could DM me if you want to avoid random tech men commenting. Or I guess just ignore my request to, but as a retail sales manager, your expertise sounds a lot more interesting.
As an aside, I recently started listening to the Ologies podcast and have found myself in love with learning about other interesting professions.
Yes that’s when you can upvote and move on. There have been many times on tildes when the comments said all that seemed to be needed.
On Reddit, sometimes someone will add a one-word comment “this”. That’s pretty annoying, especially when “this” gets a lot of upvotes :)
I once heard a forum call lurkers CD-ROMS (read only) and I thought it was cute, but also that it's a totally okay form of participation.
Sometimes when you post things, it's reassuring to have people vocally agree with you. Perhaps you could occasionally respond to one of those comments with a "Yes, and I have this personal anecdote to add to it"?
Is that not what the upvote button is for in practice?
I will occasionally comment that I agree and expand on their comment or as a follow up if I have something else to add to the thread.
Yes and no. Adding personal anecdotes don’t change the shape of a conversation, but they do add flavor and perspective, both things that should be welcomed and appreciated.
I frequently don't have anything to really add to a conversation besides a personal anecdote here on Tildes, and rarely (if ever) of what I would consider to be Tildes Quality™. I've probably written out and deleted more full comments than I've posted, and my comment count's not exactly zero either.
I think one of the issues at hand here may be that it feels like Tildes really likes high quality comments and it can feel like there's a bit of a barrier to entry if one's experiences, reflections, and even writing skills don't feel up to snuff. Or perhaps that's just my own insecurity talking...
FWIW, I feel like my personal anecdotes have been some of my "best" comments on Tildes. I'm not saying I comment to chase down upvotes, but I'm also not gonna lie and say that I don't check comments after the fact to see how they're doing. And personal anecdotes, as long as they're relevant, seem to do well.
I get what you're saying with regards to "Tildes Quality™" comments. I will definitely type something up, only to hit "Cancel" an hour later. But I do that on reddit, too. Even in stupid subreddits.
But the anecdotes, I think, are some of the most important comments we have here. Because they can provide much needed to context to a discussion. There's plenty I'm not expert on, and I know this (and I'm a tech person! Referencing comments elsewhere in this thread ;) ). So sometimes I read these things here and I'm like "I don't really understand this and/or what the big deal is..." But then someone provides an anecdote, either to support an argument or go against one, and then I'm like "Oh OK, I see; that makes sense now why this thing or whatever is important! Because someone is experiencing it in this way!"
So, Idk. There's never been a comment that I've seen on Tildes where I'm like, "Man, that was worthless; why did they even say anything?" And frankly, I do think we need to move away from the Tildes Quality™ comments. Not saying abandon it completely. But for example, if I see little funny zinger comments, that's an immediate upvote. Because we need some levity around here! We're a community after all. Doesn't have to be all serious all the time.
I think you have plenty to contribute. Though there's nothing wrong with being a lurker, I think we all suffer by not hearing diverse experiences and viewpoints.
I love the anecdotes and I agree that they are some of the most important comments here. While we've gotten bigger over the years, Tildes is still small enough to recognize the majority of usernames. Knowing more about the individual behind the username really makes this place feel like a community. It also helps to keep the temperature down whenever there's a big disagreement.
I think that's just insecurity, honestly. The worst case scenarios for adding personal anecdotes would be that you either find someone who is offended about something that you wrote - which seems kind of hard to do in this kind of scenario - or they label your comment as noise - something that you won't even be able to tell when it happens. Probably some 99.999% of the time someone reads your comment and doesn't like it, they simply pass over it without voting or labeling it. In a way you could say that you have everything to gain and nothing to lose. The systems are there to incentivize you to contribute your comments.
As far as I'm concerned, as long as your comments aren't thoughtless or inane, it is absolutely Tildes Quality™. And even then, I posted an inane comment right here in this very topic! Free yourself from your own expectations and you'll live an ever-so-slightly happier life for it.
I get that and I wouldn't just consider it insecurity. It's almost like wading into a social circle where all aspects of a talk are already examined, and that there's only room hair splitting the points that make up the established consensus.
I won't lie - I often nod to the consensus and think "hmm, well that's a balanced set of arguments" whereas on Reddit (especially in geographical city subs) it's far more of a dog's breakfast of comments, philosophies and ideologies.
...but for a social community to remain so, people gotta talk. You do you, but personally, I err on the side of repeating what's already been said over silence.
Place has to feel alive, y'know?
I would consider personal anecdotes a substantive comment. My bar for “substantive” is pretty low. I’m talking about comments that are just simply “I agree!” without any extra content.
It is, but doesn't that feel like the when the Like button was introduced on Facebook? You get the like metric, but at the expense of everybody weighing in with something original in the comments.
In my experience, those extra comments don’t usually add anything meaningful. They either agree with or join the dogpile on someone else.
The worst of them do, but in a thoughtful crowd like this one I'd bet that they'd air out the subtleties of a topic.
You're right - I've been here six years and I can only recall a handful of times where things got out of hand. And maybe 3 or 4 times where an entire thread was locked/deleted. As someone who's been on the internet for a looooong time, I think Tildes is an exception simply because it's so small compared to other services.
Since you've been around the block too, you'll, remember how close to forums this feels.
I've floated the idea of an avatar for each user, but no dice. Maybe I'll get some buy-in if I suggest that the photo be a maximum of 100x150 and come with a signature that appears on every post
Right again. It does feel like more of an old web forum.
FWIW, I’d love avatars, even if they just showed up on your profile page or somewhere out of the way like that.
I'd agree. So much of what I post is just an attempt to elaborate on a nuanced subject. There's plenty of opinion to be shared about here on Tildes and rarely is a subject fully examined or jokes riffed on.
More 'Yes, and...' please!
Boy it's hard to want to comment even in a thread about how we lurk when you said exactly what I would have said.
Yeah, what he said.
But honestly I’ve been trying to push myself to engage more in the communities I am a part of.
My suggestion is to look for interesting links to post. For a link-sharing site, there are very few links here.
Tbh the community discussion threads are probably my favorite part of Tildes (shout out @kfwyre). Most links are to some niche I don't really care about but people, their situations, their ideas and dreams, that's interesting. Not to say we shouldn't post more links but I think we could post a little more everything.
Thanks for the shoutout!
I’ll add that, for anyone who’s wanting to participate on Tildes but isn’t sure how or where to jump in, posting an
asktopic is one of the easiest ways to get your feet wet. Think of an interesting question you have, or some stories you’d like to hear, and then simply drop it in ~talk.Most of ask topics I post take mere seconds to make, but people always take genuine time to give thoughtful responses (which is awesome).
Oh yeah, you've been hitting homeruns with quality personal interest questions. Kudos, you community builder you!
That's an excellent point!
Regarding comments, I can usually explain my lurking with "others are more eloquent, informed, or just earlier to say the thing I was going to say." But I don't have a good reason for not posting links to things I find interesting.
I'm going to make an effort to do that!
Seeing you put in the effort of posting topic after topic with interesting content has actually pushed me to start contributing a little as well. I do so mainly by commenting more than I would naturally do, and a tiny bit by posting my first topic recently. I also started contributing code to the tildes repos, which is more my natural inclination.
I wonder if I ought to be gifting links from my The Times sub redbeardad has set up for me.... It's not a newspaper I'd choose to read, and in a way that makes it more interesting; the perspectives are so very far off from mine (and those here) that they do tend to drive engagement.
Up till now that's been him and me creating a spectacle in the family chat.
On a side note, the goal is for as many users as possible to post one or two interesting things. If you post many links to things that interest you, people don’t like that and communities label you as a spammer. If you don’t post at all, you’re not helping provide new topics.
Some power users manage to provide great topics constantly, but they also tend to be very engaging in the comments.
There’s probably some sort of post to comment ratio that is the best balance to strive for.
I agree that we don’t want people to start dumping lots of links. However, some uncontroversial links just get upvotes. I think that can be taken as a sign that they’re appreciated, even if there’s no discussion?
I'm a lurker and I have always been. I want to post more but the thoughts don't flow as easily as I imagine it does for others. The content we consume shapes us and the world we live in (and even more so as technology marches on at connecting us and summarizing us).
So I believe we need more participants, we need more voices and we need more diversity of thought. The more content created by the less typical "content-producer", the better the community.
Also I'm not talking about one word comments like "first" or "yes". And I'm not talking about single sentence comments that lack the ability for follow up (ex. puns or jokes). And not just another trill from the hive mind.
I'm talking about an echo of your person, something that partially shows something about you. We each have unique experiences and something to contribute. I feel like that's what tildes is about and it's what I meant by tildes-worthy.
The current 10% is not good enough. They are a small portion of us and they aren't representative. You ever find yourself reading through posts or comments and not seeing yourself in any of them? It's not because you don't belong, it's because the many others that are just like you, are like you and they are also a lurker. This isn't a knock on the current 10% but rather a call to the 90% of us to go ahead and participate.
I'm ND and it might be coming out through my writing. It might be a bit less structured, less cohesive, more cringe, and more preachy than the typical post but I think that's what I was going for. I wanted an example for the bar to be low to increase participation but I also want the bar to still ask for your individualality.
What do you think? Am I wrong and it should it stay as the 10%? Am I right and can we have a majority that participates? Maybe you have tangent that is related?
Not to dismiss your overall point, but from my perspective, I disagree. I am also a lurker and that is who I am. I don't often form strong opinions and so I don't feel the need to express them. And when I read about a topic I don't know much about, I actually think it's better to stay quiet to avoid adding to the noise. This is especially true for political, scientific, or other important topics. I feel like the constant noise on those topics has been harmful to society as a whole. On those matters we should hear from experts and no one else. If I have a clarification question, that's reasonable, but no one needs to hear my "hot take." People are generally better off without hearing "hot takes."
I'm not a lurker everywhere, though; I am quite active on /r/composting and /r/Permaculture, but there's no equivalent here. There are plenty of people here who are interested in gardening/homesteading/etc., but there's nowhere here to focus on those topics other than scattered threads. This isn't the place for a discussion of those specifics. For example, few people here care that yesterday I collected 4 gallons of coffee grounds, 3 gallons of Mexican food, and 2 gallons of veggie scraps to add to my compost operation (though if you're interested in a less-specific discussion of that, here's a recent post).
Not that I'm trying to dismiss your ideas! I'm sure you're right to encourage lurkers to overcome any anxiety about it and share their thoughts. But some lurkers, like me, surely have good reasons to keep quiet.
Plus I often browse Tildes on my phone, and I'm not logged in there (and hate typing on my phone anyway).
I've stopped posting on Reddit (after 15+ years), but I do miss quality posts like yours on permaculture, for example. That's quite the haul for your beautiful flock! What happened to poor Peckbeak?
We're trying very hard to resist getting more birds. -..- there's only so much time in a day
A joke I read about getting more chickens: it takes as much time to care for 20 chickens as it does 10, so why not get 40? I have sorta found that to be true, but from the moment I planned to get chickens, I planned on an Edible Acres-style chicken composting system, so I've been working toward this for a long time and am surely biased because of it.
I think we've finally figured out Peckbeak's story (/u/datavoid might be interested too): I know for sure that my son (~6 at the time) was too rough with her and had trouble understanding that this was problematic. What I'm pretty sure happened as a result was that he threw her near the rooster and the rooster reacted in that moment the way roosters do. My son was horrified and absolutely learned his lesson, but Peckbeak died because of it. It took us over a year to get that full story, but he has always maintained that he didn't directly kill her and that the rooster was involved.
Ahhh, a sad and unfortunate lesson learned. :( animals can be a little scary to kids (and adults), especially if they're not behaving in a way we expected or understand. And then Roo's are Roo's with their own Roo things going on in their little tiny Roo brains. A tragedy all around. I hope your son feels better about the incident and can move forward and continue to love the birds.
RIP Peckbeak 😢
(10/10 chicken name btw)
Often times, I don't post because I know the audience here doesn't exactly like what I have to say. I also often don't post because not everything requires a response, let alone a response from me.
One of the things I wish more people would realize, is that not everything requires your input. You can read a thing, and not comment on it.
I wonder if the community here would welcome a sort of label that specifies "controversial / against the grain, do not reply". My instinct is "no", because Tildes is not a free speech type of place. And i guess it doesn't need to be.
Sometimes those conversations are best held in private, with people we already have some rapport with, where we feel ready to extend the highest degree of good faith, possibly friendship and willingness to feel challenged, and acceptance that we will end the conversation with more understanding if not more common ground gained.
Would anyone on Tildes be willing to try having "hard conversations" together in good faith, and agree going in that we will try our best not to carrying hard feelings outside of that conversation space? One of the ground rules, I think, would be not come back here and say "well I know Chocobean is [whatever] because of what she said there, and that's why she is saying this here". Would Deimos want to Host that kind of conversation or take it elsewhere sort of thing?
For my part, I don't think it's a matter of politics per se. My politics tend to align with most people here, insofar as I've seen what people voice on Tildes. I am, however, very outspoken - both here and in meatspace - on a few topics, several of which have been under more intense public scrutiny since ... say, May of 2020. It's on those topics that I've run into the most problematic pushback. I'll leave that topic here, as going further would derail the conversation here.
In terms of making a "hard conversations" space, speaking for myself ... I don't think it's a good idea, at least not for the topics I'm envisioning. Nor do I think that a "controversial" label would be of benefit. I agree that some conversations are better held in private - and if that's the case, a private conversation can be had in DMs (if someone feels that it needs to happen involving Tildes). Creation of a "controversial topics" space would only segregate certain topics, such that they don't get visibility and they would get a limited, and likely argumentative and stubborn audience.
Have you... Have you been reading the latest bobiverse book perchance?
Nope, never even heard of the book(s).
Ahhh. I thought they'd coined the term "meatspace". I guess not.
Meatspace is a pretty old term. I remember hearing it when I got online as a kid in the mid-90s. It probably is even older than that (and me) though.
I think that makes your opinions more important. We don't want Tildes to be another echo chamber.
You do need a thick skin though, because you will get some harsh bad-faith replies if you post opposing viewpoints. At least you won't get downvoted below the visibility threshold on Tildes like you will on Reddit.
I regret to inform you that Tildes is another echo chamber, though. It is largely a personally-selected group of people (initially by Deimos, secondarily by other users) that is not open to the "general public". Not just anyone can join, and given the generally slow rate of growth it also exerts certain selection pressures on who actually sticks around.
Re: bad faith replies ... again, that's why I don't post as often as I could/should on topics that I'm passionate about. Because the vast majority of replies feel like bad faith. That's probably not the case, and I also know that I'm quite stubborn - but when something feels objectively one way, it can be very, very hard to dissuade me from standing firm in my convictions.
There's a quote from Jason Kay of Jamiroquai that has stuck with me for decades at this point. It was on the liner notes of one of the group's albums ... I think it was Emergency On Planet Earth:
I feel like that's more reason to post than not. If you have strength in your beliefs, then a bunch of people telling you you're wrong shouldn't change anything. Is what it is.
I also wouldn't feel pressured to reply. Online forums are more akin to a presidential debate (not in magnitude, just in format) than a conversation where you're obligated to reply. If you've said your piece, and don't think there's much more to add, or just are feeling lazy (Tildes is just a small online forum - it's not that important, in the end), then just ignore the replies.
Standing firm doesn't imply that you need to argue everyone else into submission (cuz that'll never actually happen). It can also be that you read the replies and go "ok, anyway".
See, I'm of the opinion that simply putting a thought into the universe, one which no one will receive in its intended meaning nor will anyone internalize ... is pointless. I'll refer to a quote from the book Hagakure, by Yamamoto Tsunetomo, at the bottom of this post.
If I just post a thought/opinion/criticism/whatever with the sole intention of voicing it, but without having an honest discussion or an argument (good version) in which all parties walk away with a better understanding ... what is the point? It's akin to standing in a crowded public square, shouting "I think we should stop driving cars!", no one paying attention, and everyone just going about their day. It has no effect and might as well have never been said.
Hence, I do not post as often as I could. I've seen the wider response to my musings on topics that I'm passionate about, and said musings don't move the needle around here. I could go on and on about why I think that's the case, but I won't - because when I have, it does not get received in the manner intended, nor does it go anywhere constructive.
So I lurk, mostly. I do post from time to time (like now, where there's a conversation to be had). But for the most part, I don't.
It is very easy to stand with conviction on my principles, and as you said - a bunch of people telling me I'm wrong won't change that. So I don't need to go online picking proverbial fights to remain steadfast on my convictions. Again, this raises the question - why post?
Quote from the Hagakure::
I lurk, therefore I am.
99% of the times I am on this site are when I have brief downtimes at work, to clear my mind, to allow me to focus better after a few minutes. There isn't enough time for me to form coherent thoughts and followup on responses. Plus I often have nothing of value to add, much like what I'm writing right now.
I think, in some cases and communities, it's fine to stay a lurker. I've attended plenty of lectures on topics I was interested in, only to quickly realize I did not understand the material as deeply as I thought and had nothing to contribute. I sat and took in information and didn't ask anything during the discussion because people who knew a lot more than me were asking questions that I hardly understood as well.
I do not post on Discuit. I go there every now and again to look at images. I don't post on Hacker News. My technical knowledge is lower than the average contributor... But let either of those communities start talking about human fire usage in Aboriginal Australia or the American Southwest prior to the Spanish resettlement and I'll create an account and contribute.
That said, everyone has some niche! Everyone can be a quality contributor! Then again, here, I already post. I'd be more interested in topics that I feel I can't contribute to - any Mongolian Horse Breeders available to post about how the social climate impacts you? Any neat changes to your regional tax code causing an uproar? People often feel like "no one wants to hear about my high altitude basket weaving business," and decide not to share those stories but my lack of knowledge of them specifically makes me interested.
The "10%" so to speak is probably disproportional here as the barrier for entry is just "text." You don't have to keep up with memes, you're not fighting 10,000 comment posts, you just have to see a topic and type.
Do you feel the "quality" requirement discourages participation? I don't think ever user is going to participate in every post but I feel like a majority participation is possible here more than, say, YouTube comments sections.
I generally agree with you that we could do with more venues where more people were able and willing to comment.
I think though, that it takes a lot energy to put real commentary out there. Energy to read and consider not just the source material but the other comments, energy to formulate a response, energy to engage with responses to your comments, etc. My posting here is generally a measure of my available bandwidth.
I like posting here because I know that if there is a response to what I write, there will usually be a reciprocal effort put into that response. But that's pretty rare online. When I started out on Reddit, I would make a real effort to engage, only to be met with a "lol whut?" or a bad faith character attack. It feels like screaming into the void, and it doesn't take much of that to make it feel Not Worth It.
So yes, we need it. But I see it as a supply side problem (in terms of creating safe spaces), more than a problem with people's willingness to engage.
I'm be curious to see if Tildes does indeed fall under the 90-9-1 rule, or if its smaller, less volatile vibe encourages at least slightly more participation.
In any case it's great that you're posting, don't stop here!
Tildes Is the first "social media" I have ever dared to comment on, so maybe.
Considering that particular article is nearly 20 years old and before the rise of social media as we know it today, I'm curious if the ratio has shifted at all and how the design of a platform can affect it. Tildes might encourage lurking more relative to Reddit with the "post a comment" section at the bottom of the thread rather than immediately below the post, so while scrolling past other comments you may come across someone else making a similar comment so you upvote that instead of posting something similar yourself before noticing.
As something of an experiment, I stopped commenting on Reddit (and more specifically the one subreddit I've been mostly active in) at the start of July. In the past decade I've only gone about 210 calendar days without making any comments (the longest streak prior to this one being 9 days) and I've written tens of thousands in total so it wasn't a small shift to lurk more than usual but rather a forceful disconnect. I initially thought I'd want to stop visiting Reddit as much with that restriction but that hasn't really been the case; I'd already taken steps to disengage active participation in most other subreddits following the 2023 protest but I still frequently lurked in a good number of them and this just changed it to lurking everywhere.
Am I better off personally? I'm inclined to say no since I still spend close to the same amount of time there but it's probably a bit less stressful not actively being involved in arguments and there is a small amount of time I spend actively doing other things rather than writing comments now. Do I want to jump back into conversations with people I've known for years there? Sure, it's like having an itch I want to scratch. I'm a lurker in a lot of places but it feels weird to have my "home" community become another one of those.
I think one reason why I don't comment as much on Tildes is that I feel like my comments should have more effort than I frequently put into my comments on Reddit; not that I'd consider them low effort but they'd frequently be a paragraph at most. For example my comment about anime I've been watching recently would have been at least five or six comments spread out over weeks with separate ones about each show, often my first impressions and final thoughts would be split up with some minor observations in between.
I see your point about pulling back on Reddit posting - largely because engaging in arguments is so taxing. At some point, the desire to correct misinformation or have your point heart gave way to the loathing of the whole process.
The feeling was worse when I was on Facebook and the platform began its devolution into anonymous likes (or bets being placed) for those engaged in an argument.
When I was (ahem ... am) on Reddit, I'm almost entirely a lurker except when I have problems a niche subreddit may have an answer to. Been like this for almost my entire existence on reddit, outside a brief few months when i contributed heavily in a niche i was interested in, which I ultimately dipped out of after the subreddit went through drama I wasn't interested in.
When I decided to join Tildes, I made a commitment to try and actively participate, since the style of commenting/discussions is what drew me to join and I wanted contribute.
It's not always easy to overcome my lurkiness! Sometimes I go days or possibly weeks consuming but writing no/barely any comments; then I'll get in a certain mood and have a flurry of participation (guess how I'm feeling at this moment ;). Often, I write out big comments and then delete them before posting, feeling like they're not good, or I can't figure out how to express what I mean so I abandon trying altogether.
At least now, though, I feel my effort has paid off in the sense that I don't feel particularly self-conscious commenting. :)
I think you're coming at this from a poor reference point. The article you've referenced is originally from 2006, barely into the heyday of Web 2.0, and long before the existing 'place' that is the modern web environment. Jakob Nielsen might be an accomplished Web 1.0 and Web 2.0 guru, but the ideas he caters to are a relic of a previous era, long before the wide spread of social media in the late 2010s, and LLMs in the early 2020s.
But even with Tildes working to create some of the online community and simplicity of earlier web generations, I don't think this material is applicable. In all honesty, I don't trust the source that you cite here to apply to Tildes for multiple reasons. For one:
We shouldn't feel the need to comment or post more, we should comment on things that we feel comfortable giving quality comments to. Sometimes, there's a lot we can speak on. Other times, it's better to sit back and watch quality debates happen as lurkers.
In the end though, it's up to the individual user to decide their participation level. It's ultimately a personal question.
No thanks.
Thank you to all those that do, I appreciate it.
Oh, cool, a reason to log in.
I can't speak for the speechless, but I'd guess that the "tildes-worthy" modifier has barred a significant percentage of lurkers from commenting: broadcasting your voice into cyberspace can be anxiety-inducing -- ironically, especially on anonymous discussion boards like Tildes. Out here, you're no longer backed by the authority and stature of your real identity; you are your words.
It would be easier, I think, if I had a larger presence on this website. But I don't, and starting from scratch is scary. What if I misrepresent myself? What if my thoughts are disliked? What if the account becomes an obligation? From this thread, it appears these concerns are common.
Additionally: a maybe-selfish point, but what do I get out of posting? Friends? There are more efficient ways to find them. Validation? I'm okay, thanks. Different perspectives? I don't need to contribute to get those; I can just read. Conversation? I prefer speech. The one exception is teaching -- probably 90% of my online posts are explanations, guides, etc. -- but not so much on this website. Y'all are already pretty damn smart.
Leaving a comment.
As my standard, here is an overly verbose comment bordering on insanity, but I am limited on time, so, engage number one.
We're acquainted with the wormhole phenomenon, but this... Is a remarkable piece of bio-electronic engineering by which I see much of the EM spectrum ranging from heat and infrared through radio waves, et cetera, and forgive me if I've said and listened to this a thousand times. This planet's interior heat provides an abundance of geothermal energy. We need to neutralize the homing signal.
Deflector power at maximum. Energy discharge in six seconds. Warp reactor core primary coolant failure. Fluctuate phaser resonance frequencies. Resistance is futile. Recommend we adjust shield harmonics to the upper EM band when proceeding. These appear to be some kind of power-wave-guide conduits which allow them to work collectively as they perform ship functions. Increase deflector modulation to upper frequency band.
I have reset the sensors to scan for frequencies outside the usual range. By emitting harmonic vibrations to shatter the lattices. We will monitor and adjust the frequency of the resonators. He has this ability of instantly interpreting and extrapolating any verbal communication he hears. It may be due to the envelope over the structure, causing hydrogen-carbon helix patterns throughout. I'm comparing the molecular integrity of that bubble against our phasers.
It indicates a synchronic distortion in the areas emanating triolic waves. The cerebellum, the cerebral cortex, the brain stem, the entire nervous system has been depleted of electrochemical energy. Any device like that would produce high levels of triolic waves. These walls have undergone some kind of selective molecular polarization. I haven't determined if our phaser energy can generate a stable field. We could alter the photons with phase discriminators.
Run a manual sweep of anomalous airborne or electromagnetic readings. Radiation levels in our atmosphere have increased by 3,000 percent. Electromagnetic and subspace wave fronts approaching synchronization. What is the strength of the ship's deflector shields at maximum output? The wormhole's size and short period would make this a local phenomenon. Do you have sufficient data to compile a holographic simulation?
Now what are the possibilities of warp drive? Cmdr Riker's nervous system has been invaded by an unknown microorganism. The organisms fuse to the nerve, intertwining at the molecular level. That's why the transporter's biofilters couldn't extract it. The vertex waves show a K-complex corresponding to an REM state. The engineering section's critical. Destruction is imminent. Their robes contain ultritium, highly explosive, virtually undetectable by your transporter.
Shields up. I recommend we transfer power to phasers and arm the photon torpedoes. Something strange on the detector circuit. The weapons must have disrupted our communicators. You saw something as tasty as meat, but inorganically materialized out of patterns used by our transporters. Captain, the most elementary and valuable statement in science, the beginning of wisdom, is 'I do not know.' All transporters off.
Resistance is futile.
via star trek ipsum
And then there's members like me, who, without using Lorem Ipsum, generate so much drivel, the site flags my comments with a "slow down" counter before I can hit Comment again :|
Please, @chocobean, you barely even dolor sit amet. 😺
Lol that's the nicest thing anyone's ever said about my being terminally online （ */▽＼* ）
Thankfully my responses tend to be long enough that they get sent after the slow down counter starts, so I never see it lol
My comment is very simple. And a few points.
1.) this is quickly becoming my favorite social media site. I am a lurker and read it every few days.
A question:
2.). How many users are there on Tildes?
Was it developed 100% by the community or was it a paid site that developed that core product?
There are 25348 subscribers to ~tildes.official, but that's only a somewhat accurate count of how many users have registered since the site began. However, a significant amount of those users are likely completely inactive so it's not a very accurate active user count. And if I had to guesstimate, just based on the level of overall activity here, I'd say there are probably 6-10k still active accounts, maybe 1k of whom semi-regularly comment/post topics. Only @Deimos would be able to give a more accurate active user count though.
Tildes has only one admin and main developer, @Deimos. He did the majority of the work, but there have been a decent amount of open-source contributions over the years too though. See: Tildes Gitlab page.
Tildes has never been a paid site, nor did it derive from one. It's always operated as a Canadian registered non-profit, and always been entirely donation driven. If you're interested in learning more about the site, see: The Announcing Tildes blog post and Tildes docs.
I mainly lurk and occasionally pop in with a comment when I feel like I have something worth contributing to. I think due to the size of the community, there are only so many things that I'll feel like I want to or have the time to engage in.
I have tried posting some questions threads or sharing some links occasionally for things that I'm interested in, and lately I've not been doing those as I usually like to reply to people when they comment on the thread and I feel like I've not got as much time/don't go on Tildes as often these days.
Tildes definitely makes me want to contribute more to help things feel more active when I have time.
My first real foray into online life revolved around forums and the close-knit weirdos on them. At different times I've been the 90%, the 9%, and the 1%. The internet was such a crutch for me. That has been true on Tildes too, though on this account I am in the 90%.
Between Reddit migration, the state of the world, and the slowness of Tildes, what used to be so regular to me is gone. I can still doom scroll, but I've pared down so much and disengaged so much I tend to run out of content within an hour nowadays. I enjoy simplifying my life, but miss the weird fun things I used to uncover before. I also miss the self-expression outlet, the knowledgeable subcultures, and discussing things like TV shows. However, while I worry about being out of touch with stuff like internet security and whatnot, I am sort of okay being out of the loop on things even at the cost of bonding with others. I had no idea what the CEO cheating scandal was until my partner mentioned it to me. I don't know or care what restaurants have opened. I'm increasingly unfashionable. It's fine.
On the article:
In general, I'm not a fan of reviews. I see why they exist, but largely, I prefer something more natural. They mention recommendation algorithms based on purchasing history, but I'd also say that I like how on platforms like say, Amazon Prime, it does automatically thumbs up things I complete watching. I think there's so much work to be done in easily and accurately gathering feedback in a manner that resonates with people.
I dont feel i have much to add to most conversations other than just some more noise.
Kind of like this comment…
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve written a comment here on tildes and then deleted it instead of posting it. The kind of comment I’m talking about takes me a long time to write; I’ve either decided it’s gone off topic, is too wordy, or that I’ll get smacked down in a reply to it and I can’t deal with that at the moment.
One of my very first public communications on the internet was asking a question in on a LISP/Scheme mailing list that was very well known for being harsh on users with insufficiently researched questions. I spent a week researching my question, making absolutely sure it hadn’t already been addressed either there or someplace else on the internet in a time before stack overflow. Finally I asked and expected to get a lot of mean replies. Instead I got solidarity, lots of people were having the same issue.
I’ve kind of gone in the opposite direction here; I felt fairly relaxed at first but my expectation of getting a negative response to what I write has gone up instead of down. I like the discussions that happen, but participating is really stressful for me unless I’m doing something like asking a question.
I find a good majority of the time I simply can't think of anything productive or interesting to say, and I figure it's better not to say anything at all than add noise. By the time I see any thread, even one that interests me, it's often at least a day old or so, and so the conversation has already been had - anything I tried to contribute I would have to force. It would feel like inserting myself into a conversation that already happened, just for the point of "having responded"!
That's valid. Though I do want to point out that Tildes has various ways of sorting threads. Including based on activity, which works more like old school forums. People actively use that on tildes as well, I am still talking on and off with some people in certain threads that are weeks old by this point.
So, I am often not surprised if someone replies to something I commented a few days later. You'll also find that it sometimes will kickstart the discussion again.
Anyway, no pressure, just wanted to point out that tildes works slightly differently from things like reddit in that regard.