9 votes

I don't like fate because I am not in control of my life

I think people who believe in fate are slaves of their own mind. I can't stand not being in control of my life, can you?

14 comments

  1. [5]
    teaearlgraycold
    Link
    Of course fate is an entirely human concept, not an inherent force to the universe. Ideas like fate only work due to confirmation bias. But if by fate you mean the lack of free will, then that's a...

    Of course fate is an entirely human concept, not an inherent force to the universe. Ideas like fate only work due to confirmation bias.

    But if by fate you mean the lack of free will, then that's a bit different. I don't believe there is such a thing as free will. Elements to the universe are either deterministic or random. For those things that are deterministic (most things at the macro scale) you play no role. It's a pure chain reaction of interactions between objects. For things that are non-deterministic, like some things on the quantum scale, I would argue that the pure randomness also removes any room for free will. You can not determine the outcome of a purely random event and if you could influence it that would make it deterministic.

    5 votes
    1. [2]
      Cirrus
      Link Parent
      I think Heisenberg's uncertainty principle only proves fate cannot exist. If free will is the ability to take an action without outside influence, and we are made of tiny particles with...

      I think Heisenberg's uncertainty principle only proves fate cannot exist. If free will is the ability to take an action without outside influence, and we are made of tiny particles with non-deterministic factors, isn't the randomness basically free will?

      In practice, however, I think there is no such thing as complete free will. Your parents shape your personality, and your personality will go on to shape your life. Every person's decisions are affected by their environment, so by assessing societal factors surrounding a group of people, it is possible to predict mass trends.

      3 votes
      1. acosmichippo
        Link Parent
        i look at it exactly the opposite. Just because some particles are non-deterministic doesn’t mean they affect our decisions. even if non-deterministic particles do affect our decisions, then that...

        If free will is the ability to take an action without outside influence, and we are made of tiny particles with non-deterministic factors, isn't the randomness basically free will?

        i look at it exactly the opposite.

        1. Just because some particles are non-deterministic doesn’t mean they affect our decisions.

        2. even if non-deterministic particles do affect our decisions, then that isn’t something that we chose to happen. We are still products of the laws of physics, even if they aren’t predetermined.

    2. [2]
      anti
      Link Parent
      If there's no free will there really isn't a you at all.

      If there's no free will there really isn't a you at all.

      1. qwertz
        Link Parent
        Even if there is, you could make the argument that free will is part of the collective world. I don't think individuality and free will are inherently part of the same question.

        Even if there is, you could make the argument that free will is part of the collective world. I don't think individuality and free will are inherently part of the same question.

  2. [2]
    heart_container
    Link
    To me “fate” is just a catch-all term for things the lie outside my control, directly or otherwise. I don’t treat that in a fatalist way, like “oh there is nothing I can ever do about this” but it...

    To me “fate” is just a catch-all term for things the lie outside my control, directly or otherwise. I don’t treat that in a fatalist way, like “oh there is nothing I can ever do about this” but it does help with accepting things as they are on a certain level.

    2 votes
    1. SaucedButLeaking
      Link Parent
      That's the way I look at it. Certain things are beyond my control, and therefore practically "fated." I don't believe that there is a set chain of events that is going to happen regardless of what...

      That's the way I look at it. Certain things are beyond my control, and therefore practically "fated." I don't believe that there is a set chain of events that is going to happen regardless of what people do, but I do believe that the sun is going to set a few minutes later than it did last night and come back up a few minutes earlier than it did this morning.

      1 vote
  3. NubWizard
    Link
    This reminds me of when people go to Buddhist monks and ask about their future. The monk asks, "Would you like me to tell you your future?" ... "It's uncertain" I don't believe in anticipating the...

    This reminds me of when people go to Buddhist monks and ask about their future.

    The monk asks, "Would you like me to tell you your future?"

    ...

    "It's uncertain"

    I don't believe in anticipating the future or reconciling the past. That stuff doesn't matter to me as much as the here and now.

    1 vote
  4. Cirrus
    Link
    Your post reminded me of this snippet from The Gods of Pegāna:

    Your post reminded me of this snippet from The Gods of Pegāna:

    In the mists before THE BEGINNING, Fate and Chance cast lots to decide whose the Game should be; and he that won strode through the mists to MANA-YOOD-SUSHAI and said: "Now make gods for Me, for I have won the cast and the Game is to be Mine." Who it was that won the cast, and whether it was Fate or whether Chance that went through the mists before THE BEGINNING to MANA-YOOD-SUSHAI—none knoweth.

    1 vote
  5. silva-rerum
    Link
    You're destined to meet a fate one way or another, but you can choose whether to arrive at that destination passively, or actively. By taking an active role, you can in turn change the destination...

    You're destined to meet a fate one way or another, but you can choose whether to arrive at that destination passively, or actively. By taking an active role, you can in turn change the destination you're fated to arrive at, or at least change the path you take to get there.

  6. Axord
    Link
    How are we defining "fate"? How much control (and what kinds) count as "being in control"? For example, the living standard of the vast majority of people is determined by factors entirely outside...
    1. How are we defining "fate"?
    2. How much control (and what kinds) count as "being in control"? For example, the living standard of the vast majority of people is determined by factors entirely outside of their control, but that are reasonably stable so we take it for granted.
    3. "slaves of their own mind" is some deep identity shit.
  7. qwertz
    Link
    A short story was written by one u/psycho_alpaca some time back. Here's one of the chapters: https://pastebin.com/3WYMVypW This is the way I think about "fate" and "destiny".

    A short story was written by one u/psycho_alpaca some time back. Here's one of the chapters: https://pastebin.com/3WYMVypW
    This is the way I think about "fate" and "destiny".

  8. Hypersapien
    Link
    How do you feel about determinism?

    How do you feel about determinism?

  9. jefield
    Link
    Spinoza wrote something very interesting about "free will" in his Ethics. The gist of his argument at this point is that a stone (if conscious), having been thrown towards a pool, would think...

    Spinoza wrote something very interesting about "free will" in his Ethics. The gist of his argument at this point is that a stone (if conscious), having been thrown towards a pool, would think "Look at how well I am throwing myself towards this pool" in a manner similar to how many think of free will. The exact phrasing is a little more precise and complex:

    Further conceive, I beg, that a stone, while continuing in motion, should be capable of thinking and knowing, that it is endeavoring, as far as it can, to continue to move. Such a stone, being conscious merely of its own endeavor and not at all indifferent, would believe itself to be completely free, and would think that it continued in motion solely because of its own wish. This is that human freedom, which all boast that they possess, and which consists solely in the fact, that men are conscious of their own desire, but are ignorant of the causes whereby that desire has been determined.

    BTW, if you love really complex, recursive philosophy, I highly recommend the Ethics. It is a largely infinitely recursive geometrical argument the likes of which the world had never seen and will likely never see again.