11 votes

Do you think school uniforms should be in all American/Canadian schools?

I think that a student should be allowed to dress freely. I don't see a problem unless they dress like a freak. Your thoughts?

21 comments

  1. [6]
    sqew
    Link
    This is just my experience, but as a grade and middle schooler in the US, I attended a school that required a uniform. I honestly think that it was a pretty good thing, as it removed some of the...

    This is just my experience, but as a grade and middle schooler in the US, I attended a school that required a uniform. I honestly think that it was a pretty good thing, as it removed some of the social pressure to "dress right" that I saw my friends at schools without uniforms experiencing. It seemed like, in some paradoxical way, people felt more free with the uniforms on, as they started out with the same base and could express themselves in other ways without people immediately having opinions based on their clothes.

    Talking to my sister, who attended an all-girls high school that had a uniform, she also feels that, at least at her school, the uniform was a good thing for similar reasons as I mentioned before.

    Overall, I feel that it should probably be left to individual cities and schools to decide, but I don't think that uniforms should be immediately dismissed as a non-option.

    21 votes
    1. [4]
      Zaid
      Link Parent
      I've never attended a school that required a uniform, but I think I might have to agree. Although, I wonder if uniforms might breed a cultish identity in the students.

      I've never attended a school that required a uniform, but I think I might have to agree. Although, I wonder if uniforms might breed a cultish identity in the students.

      4 votes
      1. LetsTalkAboutDnD
        Link Parent
        As someone from the UK I can attest that uniforms do jack for any sort of school spirit.

        Although, I wonder if uniforms might breed a cultish identity in the students.

        As someone from the UK I can attest that uniforms do jack for any sort of school spirit.

        9 votes
      2. Zeerph
        Link Parent
        I don't think folks are being taught to believe the same thing, and the UK people that I have interacted with seem perfectly well adjusted (a majority of them having wore school uniforms for their...

        I don't think folks are being taught to believe the same thing, and the UK people that I have interacted with seem perfectly well adjusted (a majority of them having wore school uniforms for their entire school career), if you discount their general distaste for blazers.

        1 vote
      3. mrbeehive
        Link Parent
        Is creating a sense of community (even if "cultish") in schools a bad thing though? I feel like one of the main problems today is how fractured we are culturally because everyone lives inside...

        Is creating a sense of community (even if "cultish") in schools a bad thing though?

        I feel like one of the main problems today is how fractured we are culturally because everyone lives inside their own little bubble. If uniforms are something to bond over, I don't think that's a bad thing.

        1 vote
    2. Luca
      Link Parent
      I wore a uniform from K5 all the way to the end of highschool, so I definitely agree with this. The only freedom we had was our tie, for which we got different ones based off awards. Downside is...

      I wore a uniform from K5 all the way to the end of highschool, so I definitely agree with this. The only freedom we had was our tie, for which we got different ones based off awards.

      Downside is that I had like no clothes going into college, just a closet full of black graphic t-shirts

      2 votes
  2. Whom
    (edited )
    Link
    I understand the sentiment that many have about leveling the playing field within a school, but I feel like it removes options from people who need them. For trans people, for example, even if a...

    I understand the sentiment that many have about leveling the playing field within a school, but I feel like it removes options from people who need them. For trans people, for example, even if a school with uniforms does their best to allow us to do our thing within those bounds, a large part of our exploration for many while still in the closet comes from doing things that are associated with our actual gender but are still ambiguous enough to not out us. Clothes are personal expression and clothes are art. I think we need more of both those things in our education.

    I also generally don't like things that make schools feel more rigid and prison-like. Even bell systems bother the hell out of me. I realize that uniforms work for a lot of people but I think I value individual expression more than that. However, I will say that if properly done, uniforms could sidestep the usually very misogynistic dress code problems in schools.

    12 votes
  3. [2]
    Emerald_Knight
    Link
    The purpose of a school uniform can vary from school to school. Here are the ones I'm aware of and my arguments regarding them: Professional image for the educational institution. Students from...

    The purpose of a school uniform can vary from school to school. Here are the ones I'm aware of and my arguments regarding them:

    1. Professional image for the educational institution. Students from poorer families often cannot afford or do not know how to take care of a uniform, e.g. using a clothes iron to remove wrinkles. Thus, you'll find that some students will still appear sloppy, defeating the purpose of the uniform to promote professional appearance.
    2. Pride for the student in their dress. Once again, students from poorer families often won't be able to properly maintain their uniforms. When comparing the state of their uniforms to those of their peers, they won't be feeling pride, but shame because they will obviously appear sloppier than the other students, defeating the purpose in establishing a sense of pride.
    3. To prevent bullying arising purely from income disparity with regards to clothing choices. Again, poorer students will often have more sloppy uniforms, so the income disparity will still be clear. Bullying will likely continue, defeating the purpose of the uniform to prevent bullying in the first place.
    4. Establishing a sense of belonging within the educational institution, or "school pride". Poorer students will not feel as though they belong if they're being bullied for having sloppier uniforms, and they definitely won't feel any school pride if they don't feel that they belong there, defeating the purpose.

    In other words, there are often really well-meaning purposes for school uniforms, but they don't actually solve the problems that they're meant to solve.

    Additionally, students lose the ability to express individuality, or at least have it severely limited. Being able to explore and express yourself is vital when you're younger. That self-exploration and self-expression can be approached in other ways, but if uniforms aren't even serving their intended purpose, then sacrificing the easier method in exchange for the uniforms just doesn't make any sense.

    So unless students are provided uniforms free of charge and are given a freshly cleaned uniform every day to take home so that they can come to school nicely dressed without their income posing a problem, I'm opposed to their adoption. Otherwise, I could see their adoption being potentially positive.

    11 votes
    1. ilios
      Link Parent
      Your post is a perfect example of why I like having the 'new comment' box at the bottom of the page, after everyone's posts, you said everything I wanted to say and probably said it better than I...

      Your post is a perfect example of why I like having the 'new comment' box at the bottom of the page, after everyone's posts, you said everything I wanted to say and probably said it better than I would have.

      4 votes
  4. [6]
    scituselectrum
    Link
    I am about to go to bed, so I'll try to be as concise as possible. I honestly think that the dress code (regardless of it allowing the student to dress "freely" or force them to wear an uniform)...

    I am about to go to bed, so I'll try to be as concise as possible.

    I honestly think that the dress code (regardless of it allowing the student to dress "freely" or force them to wear an uniform) can be use as a tool to enhance the educational experience of the student as a member of our society. As an anecdotal experience I can say that in my school, which happens to be a private school, we were forced to use an uniform. The rationale behind this was to show us that we were equal, and to avoid any kind of socioeconomic discrimination. For the most part I can say that it work in the classes I was part of; although I am the first person to admit that is not always the case. I also have to say that it avoided us making groups based on our first impressions, which I believe fuel our initial biases and willingness to get to know certain people. Similarly, I can see how allowing the student to dress "freely" allows the student to learn about the difference in personality and taste of each individual. But, overall, I am biased towards the uniform system.

    Now, my question to you is, what do you mean by a freak? That seems like a rather general term, and it can be used under this context to create discrimination based on how different people perceive others. I am not saying that you were trying to attack anyone in specific, but I do think that it is the kind of question we should pose when creating boundaries.

    PS: Pardon any mistakes. I will check and edit the message tomorrow.

    4 votes
    1. [5]
      Zeerph
      Link Parent
      I'm not sure we can safely conflate dress codes and uniforms, as the former seem to be mostly to police what girls at a school wear, while uniforms have, as you mentioned, other qualities.

      I'm not sure we can safely conflate dress codes and uniforms, as the former seem to be mostly to police what girls at a school wear, while uniforms have, as you mentioned, other qualities.

      4 votes
      1. [4]
        scituselectrum
        Link Parent
        I am not saying that we should conflate them whithin one institution. What I am trying to convey is that both of them might be used as educational experiences if used correctly. Now, what you...

        I am not saying that we should conflate them whithin one institution. What I am trying to convey is that both of them might be used as educational experiences if used correctly. Now, what you pointed out about people policing what girls wear to school is, in some cases true. That is why in my last paragraph I was, in a poor way, trying to convey the importance of boundaries in this kind of scenario.
        In any case, I gave a little more thought to the topic and I believe I support the uniform system during the developmental phase on the individual. Of course with the exception of college, in which the individual is an adult (I make this clarification because I have heard of colleges that require uniform, but I have to admit that I have not seen this with my own eyes).

        1 vote
        1. [3]
          Zeerph
          Link Parent
          Ah, OK. I think I may have read a little bit too much into your post, my apologies for that. Anyway, I have a few anecdotes if you'll humour me. I do remember in high school the dress code for...

          Ah, OK. I think I may have read a little bit too much into your post, my apologies for that.

          Anyway, I have a few anecdotes if you'll humour me.
          I do remember in high school the dress code for girls was always don't wear list of 20 different things whereas for boys it was don't wear this list of one or two things
          About 8 years after graduating I went back to the same-ish school and I remember one specific event where my mentor teacher was haranguing a female student with a few holes in her jeans (as is the fashion). At the time, I thought the jeans were relatively harmless and the reaction to them a little bit much. However, I've come to realise it was a symptom of a far greater problem, that of actively policing girls and their clothing and couching it under language like it'll only distract the boys if the girls wear this. For that and multiple other reasons, I didn't want to be apart of that system.

          So, I went to go teach abroad to a more uniform friendly place, although the school I'm at now doesn't supply the students with uniforms, there is no dress code from what I can tell. And despite some of the girls wearing, what would be considered in the U.S. as verboten, everyone seems to be getting along just fine in their exam preparations.

          Now, I know you can't compare the two cultures side-by-side, but if human nature is what they are policing, then perhaps it should be re-thought.

          1 vote
          1. [2]
            scituselectrum
            Link Parent
            I like your anecdote, and I really enjoyed the way you describe the different aspects of the situation. Could it be the case that the possibility of one system being more efficient over the other...

            I like your anecdote, and I really enjoyed the way you describe the different aspects of the situation. Could it be the case that the possibility of one system being more efficient over the other is dependent on the culture?

            1 vote
            1. Zeerph
              Link Parent
              That is entirely possible, but I wonder if it is more dependent upon a country's culture or a school's? As an aside: Thanks, I'm usually afraid to put anecdotes ... or really post for that matter,...

              That is entirely possible, but I wonder if it is more dependent upon a country's culture or a school's?


              As an aside: Thanks, I'm usually afraid to put anecdotes ... or really post for that matter, so any affirmation is appreciated.

              1 vote
  5. [2]
    armsaroundparis
    Link
    My child attends a public elementary school in one of the top 10 largest cities in the US. Despite the school site being in one of the most affluent neighborhoods within the city, low-income...

    My child attends a public elementary school in one of the top 10 largest cities in the US. Despite the school site being in one of the most affluent neighborhoods within the city, low-income students make up 55% of the student body. Uniforms do a great deal to level the playing field, in my opinion. At the very least it doesn't obviously sort kids into haves and have-nots the way that my own non-uniformed elementary school certainly did. Additionally, the school and school district provide financial assistance for uniforms to families in need throughout the school year.

    The children are still totally able to express their individuality through socks/leggings, shoes, jackets, and hair (accessories, styles, and even dyes.)

    But to be honest, I think the biggest benefit is not needing to have a debate over what to wear every single morning before school as often happens on the weekends & during breaks!

    4 votes
    1. TheyThemDawn
      Link Parent
      Having a uniform while still being allowed so much room for personal choice sounds great — like an anime dream. But I don’t think that’s usually considered in the debate of dress code/uniform/nothing

      Having a uniform while still being allowed so much room for personal choice sounds great — like an anime dream. But I don’t think that’s usually considered in the debate of dress code/uniform/nothing

      1 vote
  6. precise
    Link
    I went to both a private Catholic school that required uniforms, and public schools which did not. In my ancedotal experience, kids can be quite horrible. If they can't bully you about what you...

    I went to both a private Catholic school that required uniforms, and public schools which did not. In my ancedotal experience, kids can be quite horrible. If they can't bully you about what you wear, they will find something else to bring up.

    With that said, I don't think that children in public schools should be required to wear uniforms. Clothes and how one dresses is a way to excercise freedom of speech and expression. This was aleady covered in Tinker vs. Des Moines Independent Community School District. Another aspect is allowing students to express themselves, which would be diminished by school uniforms.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinker_v._Des_Moines_Independent_Community_School_District

    3 votes
  7. Catt
    Link
    I hear the level the playing field thing a lot when uniforms are discussed. Maybe this is only an issue in Asian, but uniforms can be really expensive. And depending on how strict your school is,...

    I hear the level the playing field thing a lot when uniforms are discussed. Maybe this is only an issue in Asian, but uniforms can be really expensive. And depending on how strict your school is, you may be required to get new ones every year. Guess this might be off-topic, since funding uniforms is sort of a separate question of should we have them.

    3 votes
  8. Rocket_Man
    Link
    I think allowing students to dress how they like or enforcing uniforms could have a significant impact on the culture of the student body. As other have mentioned uniforms can level the playing...

    I think allowing students to dress how they like or enforcing uniforms could have a significant impact on the culture of the student body. As other have mentioned uniforms can level the playing field and reduce the initial judgements people make about others. However this does come at the cost of using clothing as an expression of ones individuality. I'd be curious if schools with uniforms had students who expressed themselves using other avenues. Such as backpacks or stylized school supplies.

    As for applying a standard to all schools, I don't think there's significant evidence that either aproach would be beneficial across the board. It's likely that some schools would benefit from a standard dress-code while others would benefeit more from a uniform. That being said, it'd be very interesting to see if any studies have been done to try and suss out what effects differing dress-code standards have on schools.

    1 vote
  9. chocolate
    Link
    Almost every school in Australia has a uniform. Boys don't care and girls love it, as they know the fashion competition that would arise without one.

    Almost every school in Australia has a uniform. Boys don't care and girls love it, as they know the fashion competition that would arise without one.