15 votes

Political correctness: Where do we draw the line on drawing lines?

This post will be discussing the nature of political correctness and its ramifications on our culture, intended to analyze current trends and provide a basis for discussion on a very relevant issue in our society. This is a long post, so buckle up.

DISCLAIMERS

Before I begin, I will begin a series of disclaimers, as I’ll be making a lot of claims in this piece, so sorry for the length. For the sake of this post, I will be assuming the role of a neutral character, with no intended leanings towards any political or cultural ideology. Any reference that I make towards a specific side of the spectrum of politics or to social cultures does not reflect my personal opinion on them nor show a bias/prejudice towards that side. I would also like to note that, while I’m trying to make this a quality read about politically correct culture, this isn’t a lecture, a thesis, a Pulitzer article, or even a simple college essay, and is simply very informal essay. A lot of what I say goes off of either whatever comes off the top of my head or things that I find out from a quick search on Google. Some things may or may not be correct, and if they are, please feel free to call me out for it in the comments.

With that said, let’s get into it: Political correctness. Defined by a Google search as “the avoidance, often considered as taken to extremes, of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against.”, has become a powerful influence in the media that people consume as more and more creators, fans, and everything in between try to avoid language or dialect that would offend audiences. Our society progressively has become more and more PC (politically correct) due to an increasing attempt to remove toxic or otherwise harmful material, generally rhetoric like slurs or playing upon stereotypes, from media in an attempt to create a safer, more friendly environment and community, especially for those who often feel targeted by such harsh rhetoric. PC culture is inherently good-willed with an unquestionably noble goal fueling it. However, in the act of making more and more things PC, the media that is affected changes, for better or for worse. In the viewpoint of many, PC culture has become increasingly threatening to the quality of the media they consume, as the element of vulgarity that media possesses sometimes is attributed to their success or favorability. An increase in avoiding content that is in any way threatening to a certain culture has upset many because it dampens the reality of the content, affects its strength, or births new weaknesses. In short, people believe that making things more PC is making them less good.

The big question of this post is why PC culture matters to the opinions of those who digest media affected by it. It is a question with a myriad of answers, as its influence has been taken in many directions. As iterated before, some claim that it strips away the reality of the content and provides a false reality or delusional perspective; some claim that it softens content too much and dampens the quality; and others think that it is simply stupid to try to be so friendly with what content they make or consume. The element of vulgarity that political incorrectness adds to content makes things more interesting than what they actually are, ironically because they highlight or exaggerate the reality of what they offer, and taking that away from people or reducing it takes away that precious component by avoiding any sort of offensive material. Take SNL, for instance; their skits like Black Jeopardy plays upon Black culture/stereotypes and is widely acclaimed for the hilarity of their vulgarity, but were it to face a demand for more PCness, it would lose a lot of the charm it had because of the necessary avoidance of content that would offend Black culture. The problem with this is that offensive material is not always a great sin that must be purged away. Material that PC culture can see as offensive encompasses a great deal of things, from simple slurs to stereotypes of cultures and societies. While it is good, even preferable, that things such as slurs or directly offensive comments are censored or dismissed, other forms of content seen as offensive are necessary to provide an ounce of harsh reality to the content that is provided. A specific example of such a case would be how the news handled the increase of refugee crimes in Germany and Sweden since those countries took in more Syrian immigrants. PC culture would try to dissolve the correlation as one being the product of another, but non-PC content would assume that the increase in refugees led to that increase. While it is very offensive to assume that the large intake of Syrians has led to that increase, being too PC by dancing around the issue and saying that refugees from other countries relatively contribute the same amount to the violence would be feigning ignorance to a clear and very possible causality, ultimately affecting the quality of the news piece. The same could be said for many other things, like TV shows, blog posts, etc.; When concerning or including potentially controversial content, avoiding the elements that make them controversial or ignoring them takes away from the media’s effectiveness. In other words, being too PC and removing the gritty elements of something can remove the punch that it has and make it seem fake, uninteresting, or any other dissatisfying adjective.

That’s not to say that offensive material must be in abundance, however; one must never have too much of something, as it may upset the balance of acceptable and unacceptable content. But certain material like social commentary, often in the form of societal stereotypes or portrayals of a culture, is a necessary element to add truth or interest in whatever is being made, albeit it being handled with an utmost delicacy and respect. Saying that the increase in refugee crimes means that all Syrians are criminals, scum of the earth, and a true representation of how shit the Middle East/Islam is would be greatly offensive and also detract from the quality/esteem that that news piece may have. Having the PC to refer to them less offensively, as well as discussing the issue in a manner that doesn’t clearly perpetuate Syrians as the devil, allows for the controversial content to be taken more seriously, basically adding civility to otherwise provoking content. On a gentler note, Black Jeopardy often plays upon the tropes of black culture on relatable, universal grounds, like home culture or the more meaningful discrimination from white people. It doesn’t say that all black people act without genteel to one another or that all white people are evil/stupid, but plays upon familiar stereotypes and experiences shared by many people of both races and enhances their hilarity with their trademark controlled crudity. While this example reflects how PC culture can mitigate offensiveness, it can also bridge gaps between people by portraying them as equals, not separated the nature of their age, sex, race, sexuality, or disabilities. Diversity within a space, such as a profession, a community, or group, is PC culture at its best, for it highlights inclusiveness and unity that political incorrectness would draw borders with. It allows people of any background to pursue the same career choices or interests without discrimination or other forms of inequality, putting forward the message that despite the differences those people may have, they are still human beings, one alike to another, all part of one human society.

Now that we’ve gone over the merits of both PC and non-PC culture, it’s time to evaluate the consequences that they each have on society. I say consequences because the developments both cultures set precedents for how media controls the amounts of PC put into their content as more and more new media juggles the amounts of friendly content they put in and the vulgar content they take out; and of course, vice versa. Political correctness has shown a powerful trendsetting effect in that once an action is called out for not being PC, it creates a rippling effect where all other forms of media avoid that un-PC element. If you take the Me Too Movement, once sexual harassment claims have been made against one big Hollywood figure, a million more followed in its wake, and now many Hollywood big wigs and US politicians reel in the fear of getting “Me Too’d” and losing their job/getting indicted. While it’s not a real presentation of PC culture at work, the Me Too movement’s rippling effect demonstrates how severe PC culture has influencing society, as now the sexually harassed don’t feel the need to cower behind the fear of denial and claims of insanity that would have been used against them pre-Me Too. And while it’s excellent that sexual harassers are getting what’s coming to them, the crossfire catches many unfortunate victims in the rise of Me Too and its anti-sexual harassment waves. James Gunn is a very relevant example of this, as his history of highly distasteful vulgar Tweets caught up to him and led to his expulsion due to Disney’s attempts to be PC. But Gunn’s expulsion has caused a big issue since he’s not actually a rapist or someone who has harassed his actors, but simply someone who made a couple of extremely stupid jokes, jokes which he had already apologized for 6 years ago. Despite apologizing twice, Gunn is still seen as too much of an un-PC person to work under Disney. This presents the problem of PC culture having too high of a sensitivity for things that they think are absolutely wrong and criminal. Gunn’s actions reflect the rising issue of where any hint of vulgarity in the publicity of an individual can be used against them to tarnish their image, something that has been in prudent effect by the Me Too movement. And while social justice demands that individuals like these who have a history of offenses must be reprimanded, the work that they have created shall suffer in quality after losing an essential component of what made them great. This is not to say that all individuals who have been accused and punished don’t deserve their fate, but merely a claim of consequence.

Sensitivity is the name of the game in today’s culture. People are becoming increasingly sensitive over things that present even a hint of harm towards an individual or group, attacking that thing like vultures in order to dispel the negativity whatever comment or element that object has to enforce a positive atmosphere. This particular trend is something associated with social justice warriors, or SJWs for short, which has become something of an internet slur because of the reputation that they carry of being agents of anti-vulgarity. They have become such an issue to many people because they are being claimed to attack the right to free speech that individuals carry, becoming a nuisance to many who now have to watch what they say with extreme delicacy, lest they become swarmed by attacks by those who denounce them for their profane statements. But their actions aren’t inherently bad, they’re just people trying to create a safer environment for people who frequently find themselves harassed by the world around them. It’s simply that they exaggerate their efforts to such a point that their actions carry a negative connotation with them. They even fight fire with fire, attacking individuals and harassing them to get them to stop their offensive comments through brute force. But when you fight fire with fire, it just spreads, and those who are attacked by SJWs and see them as a threat to their experiences will double their anti-PC nature to combat these SJWs, creating a loop of toxicity as both sides wage a war to maintain their ideal community. This is unfortunately the great conundrum of PC vs anti-PC: Two sides fighting for absolutes that can never be achieved. SJWs and advocates for absolute PC environments will never achieve it because there will always be people who want to speak their mind about people and things that others will find offensive, and anyone can get offended by anything. A truly PC environment would have to restrict all forms of communication, otherwise someone will eventually get offended and upset the “harmony” the absolute PC achieves. On the other side of the spectrum, an environment without any form of PC will find itself quarreling with each other all the time as people will lack the restraint to say offensive things and therefore find themselves at ends with whatever group their speech or actions offend. An environment without PC is an environment without rules, and an absence of rules will result in chaos.

Now the question to this is: Where’s the sweet spot? If too much PC and too little are both bad, is the medium the best? In truth, I don’t really think any balance of PC and anti-PC will ever be truly perfect. There will always be advocates for both sides fighting to increase the influence of whatever they fight for, and the balance will always tip to one side or the other. Fortunately for the human race, we have the ability to exercise a lack of care. The reality of this feud is that there will always be something you don’t like, and nothing you or people like you can do will change that fact. You can call out as many sexual predators, societal offenders, and all other forms of anti-PC individuals all you want, but you won’t stop people from doing it. You can label SJWs as thin-skinned and juvenile all you want, but you’ll only be feeding the fire. The only happy solution to this issue is to simply accept the reality that you can’t create a perfect world for yourself by changing everyone else. You can keep fighting the battles and win as many as you’d like, but you’ll never win the war. If you’re someone who wants the absolutes, you’ll never get it. The only semblance of peace you’ll get is accepting there will always be bad.

PC and anti-PC cultures both possess a merit to them valuable to our society: PC culture imposes civility and friendliness to all people, especially those who are frequently discriminated or treated unfairly, ensuring they feel safe, happy, and equal to their fellows; anti-PC culture, however, advocates for the freedom to say what needs to be said, and while it is vulgar, it is real, and reality must be embraced. People may always fight with each other for each side as they get increasingly sensitive, and sometimes even do something that turns the tides for them, but they will never truly defeat one or the other. The balance between them is always shifting and will never really settle, but the beauty of this war is that it teaches us about people, about their experiences and their beliefs, and help us come to terms with reality. Whether we want to change that reality for the better or champion its present merits, it is, and always will be, up to us.

Thanks for reading. Feel free to discuss, criticize, compliment, etc. in the comments.

35 comments

  1. [13]
    demifiend
    Link
    I can't take this article seriously because it seems to focus exclusively on leftist political correctness. Let's also talk about right-wing political correctness, or how it's taboo on the right...

    I can't take this article seriously because it seems to focus exclusively on leftist political correctness. Let's also talk about right-wing political correctness, or how it's taboo on the right to criticize:

    • law enforcement
    • the military
    • US imperialism
    • capitalism
    • corporate power
    • Christianity
    • gender essentialism
    • traditional gender roles for women and men

    Right-wingers brook no criticism of sacred institutions, but if you dare suggest that if somebody says they're a girl, then they're a girl even if they have a cock they lose their minds. Likewise if you suggest that driving while black shouldn't be punished by summary execution at the hands of a local or state police officer who has gone full Dredd.

    34 votes
    1. [10]
      Zekka
      Link Parent
      let's not forget that if you're gay or transgender, existing, even in private, is seen as a political act that can be censored -- this is the purpose of bathroom laws and anti-sodomy laws, after...

      let's not forget that if you're gay or transgender, existing, even in private, is seen as a political act that can be censored -- this is the purpose of bathroom laws and anti-sodomy laws, after all. that isn't even speech policing, but thought policing.

      26 votes
      1. [8]
        demifiend
        Link Parent
        It's worse than that. If you aren't a rich, straight, able-bodied, married male WASP your existence is a political act. Likewise for acknowledging that your interests don't necessarily dovetail...

        It's worse than that. If you aren't a rich, straight, able-bodied, married male WASP your existence is a political act.

        Likewise for acknowledging that your interests don't necessarily dovetail with those of the rich, straight, married male WASP elite or that their interests may be inimical to yours.

        17 votes
        1. [7]
          Zekka
          Link Parent
          this shit is how you run into people who simultaneously claim that: black celebrities spend all their time complaining about race, just to get attention yet I didn't see any black people...

          this shit is how you run into people who simultaneously claim that:

          • black celebrities spend all their time complaining about race, just to get attention
          • yet I didn't see any black people complaining about [racist thing X], so what's the problem?

          you're making a political statement just by existing, but on the other hand i didn't hear your actual political speech because i was ignoring you

          12 votes
          1. [6]
            demifiend
            Link Parent
            It's also how you get people claiming that they or their art is apolitical. They're basically saying that they don't have a single thought or idea in their head that couldn't have been programmed...

            It's also how you get people claiming that they or their art is apolitical. They're basically saying that they don't have a single thought or idea in their head that couldn't have been programmed into them by the ruling class.

            9 votes
            1. [5]
              Zekka
              Link Parent
              i think a lot of people see the reality and set of assumptions they grew up in or whatever as "apolitical." so you get "apolitical" narratives that are set in a large house that contains a nuclear...

              i think a lot of people see the reality and set of assumptions they grew up in or whatever as "apolitical." so you get "apolitical" narratives that are set in a large house that contains a nuclear family and that's apolitical in the sense that it doesn't challenge a mainstream but like, only because all the political battles were won in the author's mind during childhood.

              10 votes
              1. [4]
                demifiend
                Link Parent
                Sorry, I don't have anything more constructive to say to this than, "well, yeah".

                Sorry, I don't have anything more constructive to say to this than, "well, yeah".

                2 votes
                1. [3]
                  Zekka
                  Link Parent
                  yeah sorry for effectively paraphrasing you! not trying to scoop you, i just think we have really similar opinions on this

                  yeah sorry for effectively paraphrasing you! not trying to scoop you, i just think we have really similar opinions on this

                  3 votes
                  1. [2]
                    demifiend
                    Link Parent
                    I'm not blaming you, and I don't think you're scooping me. It was just that I honestly couldn't expand on what you were saying. It's really easy to mistake your own perceptual grid for reality if...

                    I'm not blaming you, and I don't think you're scooping me. It was just that I honestly couldn't expand on what you were saying. It's really easy to mistake your own perceptual grid for reality if you've never had to deal with people who aren't using the exact same grid you are.

                    2 votes
                    1. Zekka
                      Link Parent
                      i think it's interesting though that you see people who think like this despite not living in that reality. I never knew anyone who lived in a big sitcom house but I still thought that was how...

                      i think it's interesting though that you see people who think like this despite not living in that reality. I never knew anyone who lived in a big sitcom house but I still thought that was how people lived. I also didn't have a nuclear family. (although I did know some friends from one)

                      i think the unfortunate thing is that marketing and media can create a really compelling false view of the world, because it's omnipresent and appealing to think about. it's like how almost no women look like magazine models but a lot of people expect women to look that way. but tbh this might be kind of a digression!

                      4 votes
      2. SHFFLE
        Link Parent
        Bathroom laws are even more directly about trying to keep us out of public life. They target primarity trans women (which isn’t to say trans guys would be unaffected, but a lot of the public seems...

        Bathroom laws are even more directly about trying to keep us out of public life. They target primarity trans women (which isn’t to say trans guys would be unaffected, but a lot of the public seems to forget they even exist), who (in the US) are typically on spironolactone, which is both an antiandrogen and a dieuretic - we’re taking it for the antiandrogenic effects but the dieuretic effect is definitely present. Not being able to comfortably or safely use a public bathroom limits our public life somewhat - especially for those who may not pass, or may be GNC and so more likely to be read as trans. There’s also the recent stuff around passports that’s been kinda concerning, but reports on that have been sorta limited IIRC.

    2. [2]
      Hypersapien
      Link Parent
      Conservatives have no problem criticizing members of the military when they go against the party line. Like, for instance, voicing the actual values and freedoms they fought for instead of just...

      Conservatives have no problem criticizing members of the military when they go against the party line. Like, for instance, voicing the actual values and freedoms they fought for instead of just saying that they fought for "American freedom" or "the flag".

      4 votes
      1. Diet_Coke
        Link Parent
        They don't necessarily love the military, but they love the feeling of being powerful that the military gives them. They elected a draft dodger who started a fake charity "for the vets" and...

        They don't necessarily love the military, but they love the feeling of being powerful that the military gives them. They elected a draft dodger who started a fake charity "for the vets" and siphoned off the donations into his own bank accounts. The same guy started a slap fight against the parents of a soldier who died in war. For someone who actually loved the military, his actions would be an immediate disqualifier.

        3 votes
  2. [2]
    Algernon_Asimov
    Link
    You may think you're being neutral in this essay, but your bias comes through in every line: you're against so-called "PC culture". For every sentence you wrote that purports to show the positives...

    You may think you're being neutral in this essay, but your bias comes through in every line: you're against so-called "PC culture". For every sentence you wrote that purports to show the positives of political correctness, you wrote three sentences that show the negatives. And, even your positives are qualified and muted. Your criticisms of PC culture are stronger than your criticisms of anti-PC culture, and your praises of PC culture are weaker than your praises of anti-PC culture.

    You've basically written an essay against political correctness. Sorry to disillusion you.

    There's another flaw running all through your essay: you seem to mostly equate political correctness with an avoidance of vulgarity. That's only natural, because the most visible incidents of political correctness are when people tell other people not to say words like "nigger" and "faggot". However, words like "nigger" and "faggot" are only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to political incorrectness. It would also be politically incorrect to say that black people wouldn't make good police officers because they're better at breaking the law than upholding it, or to say that homosexuals wouldn't make good football players because they don't have the masculinity required to play sports. The words are all nice and polite and non-vulgar, but the sentiments behind those family-friendly words are discriminatory and exclusionary.

    Political correctness is about more than just refraining from using vulgar epithets. It's about using language that doesn't exclude people, and about making sure we include people. Taken to an extreme, it's about having an egalitarian and inclusive society.

    24 votes
    1. Zekka
      Link Parent
      OP should consider: if he can't think of good arguments in defense of a thing, he should probably list the best arguments he can think of, which may still suck, and then phrase his essay as an...

      OP should consider: if he can't think of good arguments in defense of a thing, he should probably list the best arguments he can think of, which may still suck, and then phrase his essay as an explanation of why those arguments fail.

      the loose "compare and contrast" format is ineffective and seems to make him think he's free of the burden to synthesize his work. if he says "some people think X but others think Y" he no longer has to explain which (if either) is really true and he can also act like that one dichotomy is all there is and the two options are equally defensible.

      i don't think he realizes he's doing this and i blame the format, but he excuses himself from criticism a lot by using this format to hide assumptions. actual quote:

      PC culture imposes civility and friendliness to all people, especially those who are frequently discriminated or treated unfairly, ensuring they feel safe, happy, and equal to their fellows; anti-PC culture, however, advocates for the freedom to say what needs to be said, and while it is vulgar, it is real, and reality must be embraced.

      he's arguing both sides! yet both sides believe that PC culture is a thing that exists (as distinct from regular people culture, in which no one gets offended and people never call to censor anything) -- that PC culture suppresses true statements -- and that those true statements "need to be said."

      6 votes
  3. [4]
    Akir
    Link
    The PC you describe is a euphemism for the word "considerate". It's not PC/considerate to find your nearest fat person and call them a hamplanet. It is PC/considerate to tell the people around you...

    The PC you describe is a euphemism for the word "considerate".

    It's not PC/considerate to find your nearest fat person and call them a hamplanet. It is PC/considerate to tell the people around you that you are worried about them and think they should lose some weight for their health. Can you spot the difference? One is hateful, and the other is not.

    Whenever I see someone complain about the "PC Police", it takes a lot of effort to not immediately dismiss them because what they are really asking for is a license to be hateful. And that hate usually comes in the form of racism, sexism, or fascism. There is a reason why we don't give these people a platform.

    15 votes
    1. [3]
      demifiend
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      As a fat man, I'd rather you just called me a hamplanet. Be an honest asshole instead of a sanctimonious concern troll. If you're not my doctor or my wife, you have no business talking to me about...

      As a fat man, I'd rather you just called me a hamplanet. Be an honest asshole instead of a sanctimonious concern troll.

      If you're not my doctor or my wife, you have no business talking to me about my health. And you are my doctor, you'd better be prepared to actually help me lose weight instead of just telling me to do it.

      7 votes
      1. [2]
        Akir
        Link Parent
        I wasn't referring to fat acceptance, I just used that because it was an example where there was a PC and non-PC way to talk about it. I was wondering, while writing that, if I should have...

        I wasn't referring to fat acceptance, I just used that because it was an example where there was a PC and non-PC way to talk about it. I was wondering, while writing that, if I should have narrowed it down to people who were emotionally close to the person. I rejected that on reflection of a personal experience.

        I don't know why you would have people openly insult you rather than care for you. Are the people you live and work with so duplicitous that you would think that people who care for you are making fun of you? If so, I get where you're coming from. I've been there too.

        I've been fat ever since I was a child, and children making fun of me just made me compulsively eat more. I've only had one time when a perfect stranger told me to make better diet decisions. Sure, it made me upset at first, but the more I thought about it the more I realized that, although it was a little invasive, it really came from a place of love. And I think that is something of value. People who genuinely care about you are rare, and even if their concern that only lasts an hour, it is still important to have.

        10 votes
        1. demifiend
          Link Parent
          I don't care if it "comes from a place of love". Well-intentioned or not, it isn't helpful. If anything, it's condescending, and I have no patience for it. It all sounds like, "You know you're...

          I don't care if it "comes from a place of love". Well-intentioned or not, it isn't helpful. If anything, it's condescending, and I have no patience for it. It all sounds like, "You know you're fat, right?" because the concern is just the beginning. Next comes the bad advice inspired by some bullshit blog or book they've read.

          I don't need or want health advice from unqualified people, regardless of motive.

          So when somebody who isn't my wife presumes to burden me with their love and concern, I say, "I know I'm fat. Did you know you're an asshole?"

          Listen: I know why I'm fat. I know why I overeat. I'm doing the best I can, and the best way to help me is to shut the fuck up and leave me alone.

          3 votes
  4. [10]
    neu
    Link
    Here's how I draw the lines. Too-PC: Someone is offended on someone else's behalf, despite the "victim" not being offended in the first place. Not-PC: Not considering the viewpoint of someone who...

    Here's how I draw the lines.

    Too-PC: Someone is offended on someone else's behalf, despite the "victim" not being offended in the first place.

    Not-PC: Not considering the viewpoint of someone who is offended and taking into consideration if their grievances are justified. For example, whataboutisms. Someone says/does something offensive, and as a response the victim hears "Well, what about X?"

    9 votes
    1. [2]
      demifiend
      Link Parent
      I don't remonstrate with people using racist or homophobic speech on behalf of brown people or gay people. I do it for my own sake. I don't enjoy listening to such talk, and I don't enjoy being...

      Too-PC: Someone is offended on someone else's behalf, despite the "victim" not being offended in the first place.

      I don't remonstrate with people using racist or homophobic speech on behalf of brown people or gay people. I do it for my own sake. I don't enjoy listening to such talk, and I don't enjoy being around people for whom such talk is acceptable. I've found that people willing to use words like "n----r" often have other unsavory habits.

      13 votes
      1. neu
        Link Parent
        I agree. It's normal to get upset hearing hateful, intolerant rhetoric. That wasn't my point, because the n-word has no use except to be offensive. This Bill Maher New Rule Segment showcases what...

        I agree. It's normal to get upset hearing hateful, intolerant rhetoric. That wasn't my point, because the n-word has no use except to be offensive. This Bill Maher New Rule Segment showcases what I am talking about.

        1 vote
    2. [6]
      Zekka
      Link Parent
      in principle this is OK but "victim is not offended" often means "i'm kind of oblivious or i said it didn't count when the victim said he was offended." a giant problem is that nobody notices or...

      in principle this is OK but "victim is not offended" often means "i'm kind of oblivious or i said it didn't count when the victim said he was offended." a giant problem is that nobody notices or cares when people-of-type-X complain, to the point where people-of-type-X just give up.

      there are people who I've all but given up on telling "stop saying that around me" because they know that I don't mean it when i say that. after all, their homophobia isn't the hateful type. it's the delightfully off-color Ricky Gervais type!

      6 votes
      1. [2]
        demifiend
        Link Parent
        It isn't quite the same, but my father makes racial/ethnic jokes at home. Pick any race, ethnicity, or nationality in the USA, and he knows at least one joke about them. He's got an Archie Bunker...

        because they know that I don't mean it when i say that. after all, their homophobia isn't the hateful type. it's the delightfully off-color Ricky Gervais type!

        It isn't quite the same, but my father makes racial/ethnic jokes at home. Pick any race, ethnicity, or nationality in the USA, and he knows at least one joke about them. He's got an Archie Bunker mentality.

        Before I got married, I pretty much had to brief the old man before bringing women home to meet my parents, and tell him, "Look. She's Jewish/Korean/Mexican/black. I can't have you making your usual jokes in front of her, OK?" In fairness to him, he'd refrain from making jokes about each woman's race/ethnicity/nationality because he and my mother were too busy relating embarrassing anecdotes about my childhood.

        When I brought my wife home to meet my family, I figured that since she's half-English, half-Maltese, and a lapsed Catholic I wouldn't need to brief my father. I was wrong. As soon as my father learned she's from Australia he makes a joke about her coming to America to get married so she wouldn't have to worry about a dingo eating her baby.

        She took it well enough, but I facepalmed hard enough to need a new pair of glasses.

        3 votes
        1. Algernon_Asimov
          Link Parent
          In all fairness to your father, that's not actually a racial or ethnic joke. It's a joke about an Aussie historical event and its depiction in culture. We Aussies made this joke ourselves all the...

          As soon as my father learned she's from Australia he makes a joke about her coming to America to get married so she wouldn't have to worry about a dingo eating her baby.

          In all fairness to your father, that's not actually a racial or ethnic joke. It's a joke about an Aussie historical event and its depiction in culture. We Aussies made this joke ourselves all the time; this trope has even became one of our cultural touchstones.

          An ethnic joke would be something more along the lines of all Aussies wearing thongs (flip-flops) because we're too stupid to tie up shoelaces. ;)

          5 votes
      2. [3]
        Hypersapien
        Link Parent
        More like a story I read where a college Cultural Studies teacher said that calling a Jewish person a "Jew" was offensive. An actual Jewish student in the class tried to tell the teacher that it...

        More like a story I read where a college Cultural Studies teacher said that calling a Jewish person a "Jew" was offensive. An actual Jewish student in the class tried to tell the teacher that it wasn't offensive, but the teacher insisted and just told the student she was wrong.

        1 vote
        1. Zekka
          Link Parent
          yeah, i get what was meant by the example. and it's not hard ex. to find visibly gross dudes in the feminist community who are obviously there because they like being in a space where they can...

          yeah, i get what was meant by the example. and it's not hard ex. to find visibly gross dudes in the feminist community who are obviously there because they like being in a space where they can deny any lewd motives they might have, full of people who are socialized to shut up when they're talking.

          some cases of PC are just a nebnosed white man trying to use leftism to tyrannize the discussion, but most aren't. i think this particular kind of example is super useful to the kind of person who wants to push the idea that this is super commonplace, where from my experience it's always been isolated to one or two That Guys (the nonbathing kind) and everyone who wasn't a That Guy knew who Those Guys were.

        2. zap
          Link Parent
          Many Jewish people aren't offended by the word Jew, but that doesn't mean it isn't a descriptor imposed upon us by Gentile society, as Indian is for Native Americans or Gypsy is for Roma and Sinti...

          Many Jewish people aren't offended by the word Jew, but that doesn't mean it isn't a descriptor imposed upon us by Gentile society, as Indian is for Native Americans or Gypsy is for Roma and Sinti people. We traditionally call ourselves B'nei Yisroel, or Ivrim, or Yidn (which is itself a reclaimed slur related to the word Jew).

          It is impractical, as a Jewish person, to be angry when someone calls you "Jew". It's too common. White supremacists like to hide behind this cover. When they spit the word "Jew" at you with all their venom, they can then turn around and say "What? Isn't that what you are?" as though they've done nothing wrong or offensive.

          In general, it is kinder to use "Jewish person/people".

    3. lars
      Link Parent
      Right. If I say something out of sheer ignorance, correct me and I will correct myself. Don't get after me because I let a single he slip no knowing.

      Right. If I say something out of sheer ignorance, correct me and I will correct myself. Don't get after me because I let a single he slip no knowing.

      1 vote
  5. [2]
    SleepingInTheVoid
    Link
    I just view PC as the left-wing counterpart to fundamentalist religion. They share more in common than their adherents would like to admit.

    I just view PC as the left-wing counterpart to fundamentalist religion. They share more in common than their adherents would like to admit.

    3 votes
    1. Batcow
      Link Parent
      I find it odd that today "political correctness" is treated as a fundamentally left wing way of thinking. It was never something intentionally adopted by the left, it was a label applied by the...

      I find it odd that today "political correctness" is treated as a fundamentally left wing way of thinking. It was never something intentionally adopted by the left, it was a label applied by the right. I think it's fairly hypocritical, given that I've interacted with conservatives who found the mere usage of the word "cisgender" to be somehow politically incorrect or offensive.

      5 votes
  6. vakieh
    Link
    I live and work on the border between enterprise corporate, government, and academia. My personal hat is academic, which allows me to have a few eccentricities as expectations rather than black...

    I live and work on the border between enterprise corporate, government, and academia. My personal hat is academic, which allows me to have a few eccentricities as expectations rather than black marks. The only topics that are truly taboo in my experience:

    • Criticism of organisations which fund research. This is the one I have the biggest issue with, and it's not something I have any idea of how to solve. If you operate in an academic space and criticise a sponsor, donor, grant body etc - you best fucking hope you have tenure, because you're getting constructively dismissed without a shadow of a doubt. And in a world where pre-tenure academic tracks work on constant rehiring, that looks like you just got overlooked for that next contract/postdoc or w/e, rather than actually being let go. Big issue along this line in Australia which thankfully is being moved away from (for the wrong reasons, but I'll take what I can get) is the international student cash cow.
    • Anything which goes too hard against affirmative action, especially in the STEM areas where I work. Not an issue for me, but I've seen prominent members of the 'old guard' in several places destroyed by this.
    • Anything which moves into 'bad pr areas' for the academic space - the hot topic of course being sexual assault and consent. You follow the party line or you get gone, no question, no discussion.

    There are other areas where if you speak out you will get a backlash - that won't be from your organisations though, they will be from activist and lobby groups, which astoundingly to me when I first entered this space have about as much power as an ant pissing on a bushfire. You can pick a side on Palestine v Israel, abortion, euthanasia, you can be pro-Trump or pro-Stalin, you can support a basic wage or you can support the summary execution of anyone unemployed for more than 6 months (I have seen that raised in a faculty discussion and presented to students for an essay topic). People who take particularly extreme stances either way will see 'protests', or 'boycotts', etc. They can be censured on national television and even have members of government speak out against them (the Israel bit is famous for this) - it does fuck all. Even for people fresh out of their doctorates, hell even during, there's no teeth there. The organisations know which topics are bigger than them (the taboos above) - any other topics it's better for them to have a pissweak enemy to give the finger to, it raises enrolments and motivates researchers. If you're standing in a protest at a university chances are pretty solid you're working against yourself. The days of Kent State are done, for better and worse at the same time.

    All that boils down to me being in a situation where a taboo topic (that isn't big enough to get me the boot as above) is something that is good for me to shoot at. Now I teach, research and engage with enterprise in IT and engineering, so there aren't too many times when I get to point out that the sum total quality of human life would increase within a single generation if we (royal we) forcibly migrated the citizens of Palestine into neighbouring Arab nations, and set up a single state system which was just entirely Israel. And there aren't too many opportunities to deliberately include topics which will 'trigger' people - because education needs to challenge your existing beliefs and force you to critically reflect on them, but whenever possible in they go, and there isn't a professional development committee or enterprise liaison who would dare question that - hell, they'd ask why they were missing if I didn't.

    PC, taboo topics, fear of discussion, they're all bullshit - if your ideas are so good then they can stand on their own, they shouldn't need silence to thrive. If questioning a belief breaks it, then it's a stupid belief - and you are unforgivably stupid for keeping it.

    2 votes
  7. mrbig
    (edited )
    Link
    You wrote quite a bit, and you clearly made an effort to create quality content for this community. So I separated a time from my day to create a good reply. I'm gonna be straight to you from the...

    You wrote quite a bit, and you clearly made an effort to create quality content for this community. So I separated a time from my day to create a good reply. I'm gonna be straight to you from the start: I think you got it wrong big time.

    Also: this is not my first language.

    Non-Neutral Rhetoric

    Like Algernon_Asimov noted, your post isn't neutral at all. It's clear from the start that your intention is to criticize political correctness, not it's opposite. Examples below.

    As soon as you establish that "SJW"

    has become something of an internet slur

    you start using the term:

    those who are attacked by SJWs and see them as a threat to their experiences will double their anti-PC nature to combat these SJWs

    Your article also shows much more concern with the impact of "PC" in the quality of popular culture than with the impact of popular culture on society.

    Your stand is also clear through your rhetoric.

    being too PC by dancing around the issue and saying that refugees from other countries relatively contribute the same amount to the violence...

    Saying their actions aren't inherently bad is almost saying they actually are bad, but in a way that is not inherent.

    But their actions aren’t inherently bad, they’re just people trying to create a safer environment for people who frequently find themselves harassed by the world around them. It’s simply that they exaggerate their efforts to

    You say like that's a bad thing.

    Sensitivity is the name of the game in today’s culture.

    This is self-explanatory.

    People are becoming increasingly sensitive over things that present even a hint of harm towards an individual or group, attacking that thing like vultures in order

    Logical Issues

    • The issue of the Syrian immigrants in Germany and Sweden is so distant and so distinct from the other issues discussed in the rest of your article that it lacks relevance
    • there's no such thing as A "political correctness" because they're not a monolithic group pulling the strings of society. it's more complex than that.
    • there's no such thing as A "anti-political correctness" because they're not a monolithic group pulling the strings of society. it's more complex than that.

    I don't wanna be a fallacy man, but I can't resist: that's a false equivalence. Not every opposite must meet a middle ground. Some things should be entirely, and some things shouldn't be at all. According to your characterization, I'm obviously on the PC side, but I strongly disagree with your characterization of the expression "political correctness".

    Now the question to this is: Where’s the sweet spot? If too much PC and too little are both bad, is the medium the best? In truth, I don’t really think any balance of PC and anti-PC will ever be truly perfect.

    The Truth Issue

    You refer a lot to the idea of truth. There's a basic notion that PC goes against the authenticity of popular culture and that's a bad thing. The problem is that the notion of "truth" very complex. Like "love", it's a word for which each person seems to have a very particular definition. You seem to have a notion of reality that is associated with the ideas of grittiness and harshness:

    In other words, being too PC and removing the gritty elements of something can remove the punch that it has and makes it seem fake, uninteresting or any other dissatisfying adjective.

    While it is good, even preferable, that things such as slurs or directly offensive comments are censored or dismissed, other forms of content seen as offensive are necessary to provide an ounce of harsh reality to the content that

    But, maybe with the exception of Theory of Everything, most descriptions of reality are, by necessity, a description of a part of reality. That is why it is not wise using words like "truth" or "reality" in a logical argument unless you really know what you're doing.

    My Take On The Issue

    I don't consider myself a "political-correcter". I like the comedy of people like Chris Rock, Louis C.K., Sarah Silverman and Dave Chapelle. Most people are like me, and understand that comedy is not meant to be taken seriously. I also believe that art, and comedy in particular, frequently need to play at the edges of common sense. But society has the right to manifest their disapproval of an art piece. Every artist must understand that this is their professional hazard, and accept that, just like medical doctors must accept they might be the cause of someone's death, or a soldier must come to peace with the fact that one day she might receive a bullet in the head. I respect the right of every group or minority to protest against any of representation they consider offensive, at the same time that I think artists, and comedians, in particular, should stop whining and realize that controversy is a side-effect of their chosen careers. I'm referring, of course, to controversy, not abuse. The former is part of the game, the latter should be punished by law.

    Regarding your concerns with the decline in the quality of popular culture, they're wildly exaggerated. Your idea of what constitutes "truth" is heavily biased, and there is no shortage of other "truths" to be in its place. Human culture thrived under much stricter regimes. As a son of a country that had the most wonderful artists during 35 years of military dictatorship, I can assure you that!

    One thing that bothers me in your article is that you show a greater concern with the quality of SNL than with the social progress of your country. Because I love American culture, and I love my countries culture, but you should know that no constitutional right, in any country, is absolute. Freedom of expression must be put in context with all the other rights. Maybe it's okay if I can't make some jokes to avoid incentivizing certain behaviors. Did you know that the World Health Organization advise the media to avoid reporting suicides? That is because it is a known fact that suicide reports increase the number of suicides. Maybe there's other stuff we should prohibit. Not based on a sense of righteousness, but on scientific data. I could live without rape jokes if it was proven that they encourage rape. Or maybe I could live without them anyway because they make some people feel really bad and that is enough for me in that particular case. It's not like my favorite comedians are running out of material. I trust their ability to adapt to times.

    The point is, freedom of expression is a relative right, like all the other ones. Think about it: not even the right to life is absolute. If I had a terminal disease and wanted to kill someone to replace my heart with his, that'd be against the law. And, if even the right to live is not absolute, why should freedom of expression be?

    2 votes
  8. [3]
    Comment removed by site admin
    Link
    1. Algernon_Asimov
      Link Parent
      I added tags for "political correctness" and "discussion". I'm not sure I want to tag this as "politics" or "debate", when @Kommy doesn't seem to want to make this political or turn it into a...

      Hey OP, it would probably help if you added some more tags to your post like political correctness, politics, debate, etc.

      I added tags for "political correctness" and "discussion". I'm not sure I want to tag this as "politics" or "debate", when @Kommy doesn't seem to want to make this political or turn it into a debate.

      I also moved it to ~talk, where I think it's a better fit than in ~life.

      2 votes
    2. demifiend
      Link Parent
      In fairness to OP, they do say the following:

      In fairness to OP, they do say the following:

      while I’m trying to make this a quality read about politically correct culture, this isn’t a lecture, a thesis, a Pulitzer article, or even a simple college essay, and is simply very informal essay.

      1 vote