51 votes

Text of u/DivestTrump's post about T_D and Russia propaganda that was deleted

75 comments

  1. [4]
    Archimedes
    Link
    Hey! I told reddit I have proof of Russian propaganda on The_Donald and I'm here to deliver. Use judgment before you click any links. #Group 1 - Internet Research Agency / "USA Really" Recently, a...

    Hey! I told reddit I have proof of Russian propaganda on The_Donald and I'm here to deliver.

    Use judgment before you click any links.


    #Group 1 - Internet Research Agency / "USA Really"

    Recently, a very The_Donald looking website started showing up (geotus.army) almost exclusively on The_Donald. "GEOTUS" is a phrase T_D uses frequently to refer to Trump being "God Emperor of the United States" because cult. After my previous post, they have switched to using another (similar) domain (geotus.band). The domain is registered and hosted in America, so naturally this must be safe to click and upvote, right? After clicking, you might notice all the links redirect to another website (usareally.com). "USA Really" is registered and hosted in Russia. So what gives? If you go directly to geotus.army or geotus.band you'll see it's a link shortener service hosted by rebrandly.co. There are plenty of reasonable uses for link shortener services, but mostly you'll find spam and sites evading bans. So why would USA Really need to use this service? If you look at their about section, they conveniently link to their LinkedIn page. Wait, who's running this site? Alexander Malkevich, you know, the guy that works for Yevgeny Prigozhin, the Russian billionaire known as "Putin's chef" currently under indictment by Robert Mueller for running the Russian troll farm Internet Research Agency (IRA). So, that innocent-sounding "American" website is actually Russian state propaganda, but big deal, there's only a few links. That's because their previous website was shut down and it has a ton of links targeting The_Donald. This is just the next iteration.

    It's not just reddit, here they are on other platforms:

    Facebook

    vk

    Live Journal

    ok.ru

    tumblr

    Telegram

    icq

    LinkedIn

    Whatsapp

    tamtam

    Sound Cloud

    Archives

    geotus.army on reddit archive

    geotus.band on reddit archive

    usareally.com on reddit archive

    brutalist.press on reddit archive 1

    brutalist.press on reddit archive 2

    brutalist.press on reddit archive 3

    brutalist.press on reddit archive 4

    brutalist.press on reddit archive 5

    brutalist.press on reddit archive 6

    brutalist.press on reddit archive 7

    brutalist.press on reddit archive 8

    brutalist.press on reddit archive 9

    brutalist.press on reddit archive 10

    brutalist.press on reddit archive 11

    brutalist.press on reddit archive 12

    brutalist.press on reddit archive 13

    brutalist.press on reddit archive 14

    brutalist.press on reddit archive 15

    brutalist.press on reddit archive 16

    brutalist.press on reddit archive 17

    brutalist.press on reddit archive 18

    brutalist.press on reddit archive 19

    brutalist.press on reddit archive 20

    brutalist.press on reddit archive 21

    brutalist.press on reddit archive 22

    brutalist.press on reddit archive 23

    brutalist.press on reddit archive 24

    brutalist.press on reddit archive 25

    brutalist.press on reddit archive 26

    brutalist.press on reddit archive 27

    brutalist.press on reddit archive 28

    brutalist.press on reddit archive 29

    brutalist.press on reddit archive 30

    usareally.com homepage archive

    usareally.com about us archive


    #Group 2 - DRN Media PLC

    I found another group of Russian propaganda sites I feel is worth investigating. I have no proof they're state-sponsored, but what is clear is that they are propaganda and they are Russian.

    Reasons I think they're state-sponsored:

    • Site executives/founders are Russian nationals and have worked for Russian state-controlled media outlets.
    • Known Russian twitter and reddit accounts frequently share links from the sites real-time.
    • Content follows Russian propaganda hashtag trends consistently.
    • Shell companies based in Cyprus with shady PO box address in California are majority owner.

    Reasons I'm not 100% sure:

    • They haven't specifically said they're Russian state-sponsored propaganda.
    • They run ads and a store. Idk, just seems odd.
    • They've been active for years.
    • They're still looking for investors.

    https://reddit.com/domain/russiafeed.com/top?t=all

    https://reddit.com/domain/redpilltimes.com/top?t=all

    https://reddit.com/domain/redpillvideos.com/top?t=all

    https://reddit.com/domain/hellenicinsider.com/top?t=all

    All funnel to the most successful domain in the group:

    https://reddit.com/domain/theduran.com/top?t=all

    https://viewdns.info/reverseip/?host=104.198.241.218&t=1

    They share the same adsense ID as a seemingly abandoned site:

    https://reddit.com/domain/countdowntozerotime.com/top?t=all

    Archives

    russiafeed.com archive 1

    russiafeed.com archive 2

    russiafeed.com archive 3

    russiafeed.com archive 4

    russiafeed.com archive 5

    russiafeed.com archive 6

    redpilltimes.com archive 1

    redpilltimes.com archive 2

    redpilltimes.com archive 3

    redpilltimes.com archive 4

    redpilltimes.com archive 5

    redpilltimes.com archive 6

    redpilltimes.com archive 7

    redpilltimes.com archive 8

    redpilltimes.com archive 9

    redpilltimes.com archive 10

    redpilltimes.com archive 11

    redpillvideos.com archive

    hellenicinsider.com archive

    theduran.com archive 1

    theduran.com archive 2

    theduran.com archive 3

    theduran.com archive 4

    theduran.com archive 5

    theduran.com archive 6

    theduran.com archive 7

    theduran.com archive 8

    theduran.com archive 9

    theduran.com archive 10

    theduran.com archive 11

    theduran.com archive 12

    theduran.com archive 13

    theduran.com archive 14

    theduran.com archive 15

    theduran.com archive 16

    theduran.com archive 17

    theduran.com archive 18

    theduran.com archive 19

    theduran.com archive 20

    theduran.com archive 21

    theduran.com archive 22

    theduran.com archive 23

    theduran.com archive 24

    theduran.com archive 25

    theduran.com archive 26

    theduran.com archive 27

    theduran.com archive 28

    theduran.com archive 29

    theduran.com archive 30

    theduran.com archive 31

    theduran.com archive 32

    theduran.com archive 33

    theduran.com archive 34

    theduran.com archive 35

    theduran.com archive 36

    theduran.com archive 37

    theduran.com archive 38

    countdowntozerotime.com archive


    #Group 3 - Useful Idiots

    I provide no warranty these sites are Russian, but they do look shady af.

    https://reddit.com/domain/strategic-culture.org/top?t=all

    https://reddit.com/domain/eurasiafuture.com/top?t=all

    https://reddit.com/domain/thepatriotchronicles.com/top?t=all

    https://reddit.com/domain/hillaryis44.org/top?t=all

    https://reddit.com/domain/us4trump.com/top?t=all

    https://reddit.com/domain/restoreamericanglory.com/top?t=all

    https://reddit.com/domain/weaselzippers.us/top?t=all

    https://reddit.com/domain/intellectualfroglegs.com/top?t=all

    https://reddit.com/domain/themillenniumreport.com/top?t=all

    https://reddit.com/domain/aim4truth.org/top?t=all

    https://reddit.com/domain/jimmysllama.com/top?t=all

    https://reddit.com/domain/brassballs.blog/top?t=all


    TL;DR: Over a thousand propaganda submissions from Russian groups, spanning several years, primarily targeting the extremist, hate group The_Donald, which reddit still hasn't banned.

    #REGISTER TO VOTE

    18 votes
    1. [3]
      Comment deleted by author
      Link Parent
      1. Parliament
        Link Parent
        Not sure you'll find what you're looking for in Tildes if you want to prevent censorship. Most of the subreddits reddit should ban would never fly here. Tildes might not be heavily moderated at...

        Not sure you'll find what you're looking for in Tildes if you want to prevent censorship. Most of the subreddits reddit should ban would never fly here. Tildes might not be heavily moderated at this point due to low activity, but it's definitely not a platform for free speech based on the announcement post and the site creator's ban history.

        24 votes
      2. CCMSTF
        Link Parent
        Glad I'm testing this place out. I'm with you on that. I'm really hoping that tildes takes off.

        Glad I'm testing this place out.

        I'm with you on that. I'm really hoping that tildes takes off.

        7 votes
    2. [2]
      Comment removed by site admin
      Link Parent
      1. Archimedes
        Link Parent
        I copied the source text because I'm unable to view any archive or google cache links at work. Not sure why.

        I copied the source text because I'm unable to view any archive or google cache links at work. Not sure why.

        9 votes
  2. [4]
    pseudolobster
    Link
    It looks like redditors are getting up in arms about their reposts of the deleted post being automatically removed, but it seems like that's just reddit's way of banning the domains. I recall the...

    It looks like redditors are getting up in arms about their reposts of the deleted post being automatically removed, but it seems like that's just reddit's way of banning the domains. I recall the same thing happened when quickmeme and memegenerator were banned.

    16 votes
    1. [3]
      Deimos
      Link Parent
      Yeah, when reddit bans a domain, it will automatically remove any new self-posts where the text contains links to that domain. It's easy to verify - just try posting a self-post that contains a...

      Yeah, when reddit bans a domain, it will automatically remove any new self-posts where the text contains links to that domain. It's easy to verify - just try posting a self-post that contains a link to known-banned domains like bit.ly, tinyurl.com or other link shorteners. It'll always be removed initially, but mods can approve it.

      11 votes
      1. [2]
        Neverland
        Link Parent
        Hmm, it looks like a mod is not able to approve posts in this case.

        Hmm, it looks like a mod is not able to approve posts in this case.

        13 votes
        1. Deimos
          Link Parent
          Ah, then they've most likely used a "stronger" variant of the ban that completely prevents approval while the post has a link to that site in it. This is necessary when the spammers (or whatever...

          Ah, then they've most likely used a "stronger" variant of the ban that completely prevents approval while the post has a link to that site in it. This is necessary when the spammers (or whatever other type of "bad user") has a mod position themselves or sympathetic people in mod positions - if the posts could just be approved anyway, the ban wouldn't accomplish anything at all.

          15 votes
  3. Neverland
    (edited )
    Link
    Wow, this story made Newsweek.com While the piece is very brief, it did seem to get the latest facts correct.

    Wow, this story made Newsweek.com

    While the piece is very brief, it did seem to get the latest facts correct.

    3 votes
  4. [26]
    Leo
    Link
    Just a heads up, you might want to keep an eye on your post here because @Deimos might edit it if he disagrees. He did it on another Russia / Reddit post

    Just a heads up, you might want to keep an eye on your post here because @Deimos might edit it if he disagrees.

    He did it on another Russia / Reddit post

    1 vote
    1. [16]
      Deimos
      Link Parent
      I probably will edit it, because (exactly like yours), it makes an unsupported statement to try to make the situation seem more dramatic. Unless you've found some proof that the reddit admins...

      I probably will edit it, because (exactly like yours), it makes an unsupported statement to try to make the situation seem more dramatic. Unless you've found some proof that the reddit admins deleted the post and account, which is the claim you made, right?

      24 votes
      1. [2]
        Archimedes
        Link Parent
        I see you've changed the title a bit, which is fine with me. There's even a Topic Log on the right that explains it. Kudos for that transparency.

        I see you've changed the title a bit, which is fine with me. There's even a Topic Log on the right that explains it. Kudos for that transparency.

        14 votes
        1. Amarok
          Link Parent
          That transparency is what stops the censorship from sliding into agenda-driven content control. It's critical, without it there's no trust, and misinformation rules the day, just like with this...

          That transparency is what stops the censorship from sliding into agenda-driven content control. It's critical, without it there's no trust, and misinformation rules the day, just like with this latest batch of reddit's crap blowing up. People absolutely love a good conspiracy, even more when it's a multi-year long tale like this one that just keeps bringing the drama.

          You can't have a beautiful garden without clearing out the weeds. You can't have an online forum that has good, reasonable discussions without weeding out people who are trying to undermine that discussion with trivia, lies, misinformation, and assholish behavior. That's where the censorship should be applied, and only there. It's less about censoring content/ideas and more about censoring behaviors that are detrimental to having a meaningful conversation. If you can't make your point without resorting to logical fallacies and verbal attacks, then let someone else make it and shut up. Simple.

          Ideally, we'd get systems here that let the bulk of the longer-term users handle that themselves in their own communities, rather than a handful of admins and appointed mods. Spreading the power around so that it comes from a democratic aggregate of moderation activity helps prevent those biases from setting in, because one person can't do anything by themselves. It takes a group in agreement. That's where we hope to land with the trust system.

          9 votes
      2. Staross
        Link Parent
        I think editing misleading titles can be fine, but it should be clearly indicated in the title/post body (e.g. [Edited by XXX] in red).

        I think editing misleading titles can be fine, but it should be clearly indicated in the title/post body (e.g. [Edited by XXX] in red).

        4 votes
      3. [12]
        Leo
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        I believe there were comments from mods on that post stating that that was what had happened. What proof do you have that it didn't? I understand that you're trying to do what you think is the...

        I believe there were comments from mods on that post stating that that was what had happened. What proof do you have that it didn't?

        I understand that you're trying to do what you think is the right thing to do, but I'm telling you, despite your noble intent you may have missed the mark.

        You're free to run your site however you want since you made it, but you seem to be open to community input, so here's some for you.

        Is this the same standard being applied to every submission to this site? Or is there a different standard for things users write, vs. things they quote from the media, like headlines? If I simply use the headline from an article, will it be edited if you personally don't agree that the evidence from the article was strong enough to prove the headline? Or do media companies get a pass from having their headlines altered, even the alt right ones like Breitbart or The Gateway Pundit?

        If you disagreed strongly enough with the post, then you should have just deleted it altogether. You shouldn't have added your own opinion to it, softened it to show deference to the alt right, and then left my name on it. I'm not even sure that editing other users' posts is covered under the T&C and should probably be updated to reflect reality.

        One of the reasons I joined this site, is because its purpose was very clear: that it wouldn't be overcome by the tolerance of intolerance. There seems to be a lot of tolerance going on here though for a group that is very intolerant.

        1. [3]
          Deimos
          Link Parent
          So you wrote a title based on complete speculation (and there's now multiple pieces of evidence showing it was false), I changed it to be more accurate, and you're accusing me of doing it because...

          So you wrote a title based on complete speculation (and there's now multiple pieces of evidence showing it was false), I changed it to be more accurate, and you're accusing me of doing it because of deference to the alt-right?

          For transparency: I've banned @Leo based on their behavior here as well as the other comments they posted about it last night (and later deleted). It's clear that they've already decided that they need to treat me as an adversary, and it's not worth continuing to coddle people that will put more effort into trying to stir up drama than contributing anything of value.

          27 votes
          1. Pilgrim
            Link Parent
            Thank you! Keep your pimp-hand strong as I'm sure it'll be needed in the future.

            Thank you! Keep your pimp-hand strong as I'm sure it'll be needed in the future.

            8 votes
          2. [2]
            Comment deleted by author
            Link Parent
            1. Deimos
              Link Parent
              No, they're logged out of their account and are unable to log back in.

              No, they're logged out of their account and are unable to log back in.

              10 votes
        2. [4]
          Kraetos
          Link Parent
          Man I sure am sick of everyone interpreting this to mean whatever the hell they want it to and then throwing it back in Deimos' face. There's no interpretation of the paradox of tolerance that...

          There seems to be a lot of tolerance going on here though for a group that is very intolerant.

          Man I sure am sick of everyone interpreting this to mean whatever the hell they want it to and then throwing it back in Deimos' face. There's no interpretation of the paradox of tolerance that could be applied to this situation. None.

          20 votes
          1. [3]
            arghdos
            Link Parent
            Also, the idea that Tildes is currently tolerant of the alt-right is... flimsy at best. We've had productive discussions in the past attempting to be more tolerant of even moderately conservative...

            Also, the idea that Tildes is currently tolerant of the alt-right is... flimsy at best. We've had productive discussions in the past attempting to be more tolerant of even moderately conservative viewpoints

            13 votes
            1. Pilgrim
              Link Parent
              I'm actually hoping we go the other way. Can't they go play on Voat or Reddit since they've dominated those sites already?

              Also, the idea that Tildes is currently tolerant of the alt-right is... flimsy at best.

              I'm actually hoping we go the other way. Can't they go play on Voat or Reddit since they've dominated those sites already?

              10 votes
            2. spctrvl
              Link Parent
              Yeah, it's a particularly strange accusation given that it was my impression tildes was founded (at least in part) because Reddit wasn't doing anything to combat the alt right coopting their platform.

              Yeah, it's a particularly strange accusation given that it was my impression tildes was founded (at least in part) because Reddit wasn't doing anything to combat the alt right coopting their platform.

              9 votes
        3. [2]
          Comment deleted by author
          Link Parent
          1. NubWizard
            Link Parent
            Comments like this by Leo are mind-boggling to me and just another example of where I believe some users are skipping over the steps of understanding why we have strong beliefs and morals. You...

            I'm going to ask you to explain to me how the edit showed "deference to the alt right"

            Comments like this by Leo are mind-boggling to me and just another example of where I believe some users are skipping over the steps of understanding why we have strong beliefs and morals. You have to live with integrity, honesty, and open mindedness every day and strive to realize it your actions. It's easy to say fuck the alt right and what they stand for. It's harder to recognize where exactly their moral fibre has been cut and not fall into using your hate for them as a compass for your own moral fibre.

            8 votes
        4. [3]
          neu
          Link Parent
          I don't know that I would classify not supporting unsubstantiated claims as tolerating intolerance. The original title of the post was "Text of u/DivestTrump's post about T_D and Russia propaganda...

          One of the reasons I joined this site, is because its purpose was very clear: that it wouldn't be overcome by the tolerance of intolerance. There seems to be a lot of tolerance going on here though for a group that is very intolerant.

          I don't know that I would classify not supporting unsubstantiated claims as tolerating intolerance. The original title of the post was "Text of u/DivestTrump's post about T_D and Russia propaganda that is currently being censored on Reddit". I personally haven't seen any proof of that, and that title suggests that's exactly what's happening. The edited title is much better, IMO.

          9 votes
          1. [2]
            Archimedes
            Link Parent
            I meant "censored" as in any copies of it are automatically being flagged and not even allowed to be posted with mod approval, but I'm fine with the title being changed. I now realize it was...

            I meant "censored" as in any copies of it are automatically being flagged and not even allowed to be posted with mod approval, but I'm fine with the title being changed.

            I now realize it was automatic blocking of posts with links to certain domains that moderators can't even approve. Whether that counts as censorship is debatable, so changing verbiage to "deleted" is a reasonable choice.

            6 votes
            1. neu
              Link Parent
              Ah, I can see what you meant. I assumed you had meant that admins were actively trying to censor u/DivertTrump's post to avoid people from seeing the post, since there were many Redditors who...

              Ah, I can see what you meant. I assumed you had meant that admins were actively trying to censor u/DivertTrump's post to avoid people from seeing the post, since there were many Redditors who immediately assumed that to be the case.

              3 votes
    2. [2]
      Comment deleted by author
      Link Parent
      1. cain
        Link Parent
        He's talking about this Not sure what the purpose of throwing the not so subtle shade at deimos is for he's been transparent about everything he changes.

        He's talking about this

        Not sure what the purpose of throwing the not so subtle shade at deimos is for he's been transparent about everything he changes.

        20 votes
    3. Supernova
      Link Parent
      The issue with that other post was that @Leo had stated that reddit admins had deleted the post and u/DivestTrump's account without any proof. This was before the admins came out and said that...

      The issue with that other post was that @Leo had stated that reddit admins had deleted the post and u/DivestTrump's account without any proof. This was before the admins came out and said that u/DivestTrump deleted their own account.

      As for this post, wasn't there a similar one posted a few months back (or weeks, I can't tell anymore)?

      Edit: Didn't realize that was you. Deimos explained why he edited your post last I saw. But something else must have happened after I last saw it because I can't find it anymore.

      7 votes
    4. Wes
      Link Parent
      Based on the public log, the original title for this submission was horrible. It was correctly changed.

      Based on the public log, the original title for this submission was horrible. It was correctly changed.

      4 votes
    5. [7]
      Comment deleted by author
      Link Parent
      1. [6]
        Leo
        Link Parent
        I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he thought he was doing the right thing, but I think it's something we should have a discussion about.

        I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he thought he was doing the right thing, but I think it's something we should have a discussion about.

        1 vote
        1. [3]
          Comment deleted by author
          Link Parent
          1. Deimos
            Link Parent
            Hi, welcome to Tildes. I'm going to change titles when they contain lies. I'm going to change titles when they're editorialized. I'm going to change titles when they're just plain bad. I'm...

            Hi, welcome to Tildes. I'm going to change titles when they contain lies. I'm going to change titles when they're editorialized. I'm going to change titles when they're just plain bad. I'm probably going to change them for lots of other reasons too.

            If you're not okay with this, I'm happy to delete your account for you.

            26 votes
          2. Supernova
            Link Parent
            You can never changed what someone wrote? And the nazi analogy? That sounds like a bit much. Deimos explained why he made the change, which was justified, and there are logs on the side of the...

            You can never changed what someone wrote? And the nazi analogy? That sounds like a bit much. Deimos explained why he made the change, which was justified, and there are logs on the side of the post for everyone to see.

            15 votes
        2. [4]
          Comment removed by site admin
          Link Parent
          1. Archimedes
            Link Parent
            Any comments from any users that contained links to certain domains included in the post were automatically being removed even with moderator approval. That's not just someone deleting their account.

            Any comments from any users that contained links to certain domains included in the post were automatically being removed even with moderator approval. That's not just someone deleting their account.

            2 votes
          2. [2]
            Leo
            Link Parent
            What evidence do you have that they didn't? If your evidence is "that doesn't sound like something Reddit would do", you're just continuing to show the deference for the alt right that got us into...

            What evidence do you have that they didn't? If your evidence is "that doesn't sound like something Reddit would do", you're just continuing to show the deference for the alt right that got us into this mess in the first place.

            1. [2]
              Comment removed by site admin
              Link Parent
              1. Leo
                Link Parent
                Fair enough. I don't think additional evidence to the contrary that wasnt available when I posted, or even when it was edited, is a strong enough reason to edit other peoples' post all willy-nilly...

                Fair enough. I don't think additional evidence to the contrary that wasnt available when I posted, or even when it was edited, is a strong enough reason to edit other peoples' post all willy-nilly though.

  5. [41]
    Comment removed by site admin
    Link
    1. [5]
      poopascoopa
      Link Parent
      Invite them to Tildes.

      Invite them to Tildes.

      19 votes
      1. [2]
        Indigo
        Link Parent
        Yes this place is quickly becoming the beacon of hope that reddit was supposed to be.

        Yes this place is quickly becoming the beacon of hope that reddit was supposed to be.

        2 votes
        1. vakieh
          Link Parent
          Anyone who believed that was naive to a point of cartoon ridicule. The moment you accept VC is the moment your direction becomes set in stone.

          that reddit was supposed to be.

          Anyone who believed that was naive to a point of cartoon ridicule. The moment you accept VC is the moment your direction becomes set in stone.

          10 votes
    2. [28]
      CALICO
      Link Parent
      The source text of the post is being blocked, as seen here. Although u/sodypop says it's because:

      The source text of the post is being blocked, as seen here.

      Although u/sodypop says it's because:

      We don't normally take action or share details in the middle of such an investigation, but since this has so much attention right now, we’re making an exception. The domains we banned that were mentioned in the original post include:

      geotus.army
      geotus.band
      usareally.com
      brutalist.press

      17 votes
      1. [28]
        Comment removed by site admin
        Link Parent
        1. [27]
          CALICO
          Link Parent
          What they should do is going to be up for opinion. I'm really conflicted about the reddit admins seeming inaction w/r/t Russian State Intelligence influence campaigns and radicalization on their...

          What they should do is going to be up for opinion.

          I'm really conflicted about the reddit admins seeming inaction w/r/t Russian State Intelligence influence campaigns and radicalization on their platform. The most charitable interpretation would be that reddit is collaborating with federal investigators, and thus are required to leave T_D up. A middle-ground interpretation might be that they are genuinely conducting an internal investigation, and can't do as thorough a job as some users due to manpower restrictions or priorities. A less-charitable interpretation might be that reddit either does not care, or is an active participant. When you have u/Spez defending T_D with their "valuable conversation", and people like Peter Thiel (a large investor in reddit) who have connections to the Federal Russian investigation, it makes it difficult to take the more charitable of interpretations.

          Banning the domains in question is not something I will deride. But it doesn't solve anything either.

          You won't find me in the r/SubredditDrama post about this, but I do agree with a lot of the users in there that the admins certainly don't look like they're doing all they could.

          17 votes
          1. [27]
            Comment removed by site admin
            Link Parent
            1. [26]
              Amarok
              Link Parent
              Well, just to stir the pot... The moderators have the power to get rid of T_D any time they like. All they have to do is stage another blackout and lock down a couple hundred of the top...

              Well, just to stir the pot...

              The moderators have the power to get rid of T_D any time they like. All they have to do is stage another blackout and lock down a couple hundred of the top subreddits. The admins will cave instantly on that issue, because they have no choice whatsoever but to bow to the demands of the mod teams.

              If the admins don't cave, mods can all resign and leave all of those communities locked and leaderless, so that the admins will have to do the work of bringing them all back online themselves. The mods can also blank the automod configs, shut down any bots they've created to help with the moderation of their communities, and effectively reduce reddit to a natural unmoderated state - which means it'll be 99% spam and penis pills.

              Either way, reddit corporate loses a shitload of money and gets a black eye and broken spine out of the deal. The media will instantly dogpile on this mess as well, turning it into front page internet news everywhere - and none of the coverage will paint reddit and their staff in a good light. It's up to the moderators if they have had enough and want T_D gone. The power is theirs. Reddit can't function at all without them, and reddit sure as hell can't find 'replacement' moderators at that scale in any useful time frame.

              9 votes
              1. [20]
                Deimos
                (edited )
                Link Parent
                Disclaimer: this is me speculating and is absolutely not based on insider information or anything similar. The things I'm discussing took place after I stopped working at reddit and I don't have...

                Disclaimer: this is me speculating and is absolutely not based on insider information or anything similar. The things I'm discussing took place after I stopped working at reddit and I don't have more information about them than anyone else does.

                Reddit will never allow another mod blackout or anything similar to take place. Preventing that was the real purpose of the whole /r/CommunityDialogue process—putting the "Moderator Guidelines for Healthy Communities" into effect, which explicitly allows them to take over any subreddits they want to if they think it's necessary:

                Reddit may, at its discretion, intervene to take control of a community when it believes it in the best interest of the community or the website. This should happen rarely (e.g., a top moderator abandons a thriving community), but when it does, our goal is to keep the platform alive and vibrant, as well as to ensure your community can reach people interested in that community. Finally, when the admins contact you, we ask that you respond within a reasonable amount of time.

                Anybody that was involved in /r/CommunityDialogue saw what happened—it started out looking like a legitimate attempt from them to get feedback from mods about various concerns and work together to address them. However, the admin engagement with it dropped off quickly, and after a few long periods of complete silence they suddenly just dropped the Moderator Guidelines on everyone in there, and didn't respond to any further questions or make adjustments to it. I believe that was always the end goal, but they wanted to make it seem like a collaborative process (which they didn't do very well, but I think that was the intention).

                20 votes
                1. [17]
                  Amarok
                  Link Parent
                  Maybe I'm not explaining my point very well. :P Let's presume reddit bans all the mods for taking a stand. This also means reddit loses all custom bots (and that's rather a lot of power). What...

                  Maybe I'm not explaining my point very well. :P

                  Let's presume reddit bans all the mods for taking a stand. This also means reddit loses all custom bots (and that's rather a lot of power).

                  What happens then?

                  Most people here know the sheer scope of work and specialized knowledge required. Can anyone say with a straight face that reddit's puny staff of 300 people can do that job?

                  What about scabs? Well, how many of you have ever tried to recruit good moderators for your communities? It's a gigantic pain in the ass, and there are a lot of powertripping asshats out there to ruin your day who want in.

                  Frankly, I don't think it's within reddit's capability to recover from that loss of manpower. Many communities will decohere, trolls will rule the day (and the week, and likely the next several months). The media will eat them alive. Public opinion will come down squarely against them.

                  I can't see a way for reddit to function without the mods and the bots.

                  I'm sure reddit has mechanisms in place by now to disable the locking feature, or force the entire site to default settings so that a css blackout won't work. In the end though, those are rather irrelevant. As long as anyone can create an account and post, they are wide open. It'll turn into another 'happening' and the userbase will go bonkers.

                  5 votes
                  1. [5]
                    Deimos
                    (edited )
                    Link Parent
                    No, I get it. And yes, it would be a huge mess overall, but it's still preferable to them to having half the site shut down again, with the other half (and a bunch of media) going nuts about a...

                    No, I get it. And yes, it would be a huge mess overall, but it's still preferable to them to having half the site shut down again, with the other half (and a bunch of media) going nuts about a "user revolt".

                    The majority of users really don't care what's going on as long as the front page is still full of funny pictures and gifs, and most of the popular subreddits would survive perfectly fine for a while with almost no moderation. Yeah, there would be a lot of posts getting through that don't belong in the subreddits, but most users won't care.

                    Between taking over subreddits and excluding other ones from the front page, they could easily make it so that the casual users don't even realize anything's happening.

                    12 votes
                    1. EightRoundsRapid
                      Link Parent
                      This is the crux of it, I think. The average user wants to see GIFs and pretty pics and doesn't really care what sub they're in, or give a damn about the inner workings of the site and associated...

                      This is the crux of it, I think. The average user wants to see GIFs and pretty pics and doesn't really care what sub they're in, or give a damn about the inner workings of the site and associated drama.

                      Scrolling through the first few pages of r/all or r/popular gives most people more than enough content in an hour or so of browsing.

                      9 votes
                    2. [3]
                      Amarok
                      Link Parent
                      I think it'd go open-season, at least for a while. If the moderation is in chaos, every group with an agenda and every troll on the web would come by to join in on the fun. Without the bots...

                      I think it'd go open-season, at least for a while. If the moderation is in chaos, every group with an agenda and every troll on the web would come by to join in on the fun. Without the bots stopping the majority of the shitposting, it'll take over the front page because people love to vote on that crap even more than they do on cat pictures. The reason mods remove that stuff in the first place is because it does too well compared to the other content. You modded /r/games, I know you know exactly what I'm talking about. ;)

                      If the demands were unreasonable, that'd be one thing. I really don't think T_D is the hill the admins will pick to die on. Even spez rage-edited their comments. When you're faced with the choice of dumping a large chunk of your volunteer staff who generally gets along with you just to save a community you know is causing a lot of problems the choice seems pretty cut and dry to me.

                      6 votes
                      1. [2]
                        BuckeyeSundae
                        Link Parent
                        The main problem I can see with a blackout-style mod-protest is the mods who don't feel that protesting reddit politics serves their community (here I'm thinking about communities like...

                        The main problem I can see with a blackout-style mod-protest is the mods who don't feel that protesting reddit politics serves their community (here I'm thinking about communities like /r/leagueoflegends). There is danger in believing it'll be okay to harass those teams who don't join whatever group protest you're organizing (which did happen). It'll undermine the entire effort to have people doing that shit. How do you either convince a skeptical team to join this sort of movement or keep your most ardent supporters from harassing them and turning them actively against the movement? Or do you even think it matters?

                        3 votes
                        1. Amarok
                          Link Parent
                          Yeah, that did happen last time. This is how I handled it then. I didn't take l2t private, just had submissions turned off for a half a day - because like you said, it wasn't directly related to...

                          Yeah, that did happen last time. This is how I handled it then. I didn't take l2t private, just had submissions turned off for a half a day - because like you said, it wasn't directly related to our content and I didn't feel like putting our subscribers out over it, but I did think the issues deserved an audience. I'd bet a lot of teams who won't strike over a new issue would still put up a sticky or do something to bring attention to it.

                          I think most mods are mature enough not to harass other mod teams for joining or not joining. It really should be up to the individual teams. The harassment mainly comes from angry users who want change and get miffed that some people won't take a stand for it with them. We got plenty of flak in PMs for unlocking l2t after the admin response, and we did what we always do when users get nasty - we ignored them. Best you can do is ask people not to harass other mod teams for their own choices. There's really no way to prevent it beyond that.

                          4 votes
                  2. [5]
                    cain
                    Link Parent
                    I understand where you're coming from. And this would no doubt cripple the site if it were to actually happen. But it's simply not going to happen. Entire mod teams wont drop it all and leave....

                    I understand where you're coming from. And this would no doubt cripple the site if it were to actually happen. But it's simply not going to happen.

                    Entire mod teams wont drop it all and leave. Some mods may but it's not going to be whole teams. Especially considering the size of the default teams.

                    Maybe back when the last blackout happened and there was no fear of losing your subreddit it could happen, but when admins start threatening to remove the mods responsible directly to the mod teams most will cave and the ones enforcing the blackouts for those specific teams would likely be removed.

                    6 votes
                    1. [4]
                      Amarok
                      Link Parent
                      I figure the overwhelming majority of those teams are already burned out to the bone, and won't care if they aren't mods anymore. I know that's where I am, and I mod a community that's as far...

                      I figure the overwhelming majority of those teams are already burned out to the bone, and won't care if they aren't mods anymore. I know that's where I am, and I mod a community that's as far removed from this BS as it's possible to get. I think it is guaranteed that entire mod teams will drop it and leave, and feel a lot better two days later without the thankless hassles of cleaning up reddit's mess for free eating into their sanity.

                      3 votes
                      1. [3]
                        cain
                        Link Parent
                        You really think the rest of your mod team will leave over the fact that T_D isn't banned yet? Entire mod teams that are far removed the BS? It wont happen, you might be burnt out sure. But most...

                        You really think the rest of your mod team will leave over the fact that T_D isn't banned yet? Entire mod teams that are far removed the BS? It wont happen, you might be burnt out sure. But most are indifferent.

                        And as the 'workhorse' mod of a former default I don't think my subreddit would be any different whatsoever if you removed our entire automod and we stopped doing anything. sure there'd be spam, probably a lot of slurs, but they'd just get downvoted and what makes it to /r/all would be no different. The largest subreddits require far less moderation than expected. It could be fixed even by implementing a very basic automod as a bandaid that blankets the abandoned subreddits.

                        But I'll never be convinced it would ever come to that over T_D of all things. Something else, sure. But not T_D.

                        1 vote
                        1. [2]
                          Amarok
                          Link Parent
                          I think there are plenty of people out there who will gleefully exploit those simplistic moderation systems. Automation is only effective if it's confined to very narrow tasks that a computer can...

                          I think there are plenty of people out there who will gleefully exploit those simplistic moderation systems. Automation is only effective if it's confined to very narrow tasks that a computer can understand, and that's not going to work in larger generalized subreddits.

                          I think most of the mods would leave because that treatment shows what reddit really thinks of the moderators. That kind of vote of no confidence would certainly torpedo anyone with integrity across the board - and that integrity is what makes for good moderators.

                          I'm just a bit tired of all of this 'woe is us' from reddit's mod teams. Put up with shit, and get shit on. That's life. If the mods are truly unhappy about reddit, they can do something about it, even if that something is to simply walk away. My idea of doing something is being here because I know I'm never going to see any progress on reddit. I'd rather donate my time/effort to a community that wants to be better, one that isn't beholden to corporate paymasters. If we build Tildes well, the problems that plague reddit should never show up here. Others will, of course, but at least it'll be a different set of problems and we'll make a little progress. ;)

                          5 votes
                          1. cain
                            Link Parent
                            I can agree with that last paragraph, partly why I'm here on Tildes. And I absolutely think mods who are unhappy with reddit should bounce. But there are plenty mods that are perfectly happy with...

                            I can agree with that last paragraph, partly why I'm here on Tildes. And I absolutely think mods who are unhappy with reddit should bounce. But there are plenty mods that are perfectly happy with reddit, or at least their part of reddit., that pay absolutely zero attention to /r/The_Donald and /r/Politics and the subs associated to them.

                            If Tildes has the problems reddit has from either far left or far right groups that become the norm here I'll be gone in the blink of an eye.

                            2 votes
                  3. [3]
                    arghdos
                    Link Parent
                    I wonder if we could wipe the automod configs from the history as well. You know, for scientific purposes :P

                    I wonder if we could wipe the automod configs from the history as well. You know, for scientific purposes :P

                    1 vote
                    1. [2]
                      Amarok
                      Link Parent
                      Restoring a few hundred automod configs is a hell of a lot of work - especially if the last couple of edits have been subtly sabotaged to contain bad rules. ;)

                      Restoring a few hundred automod configs is a hell of a lot of work - especially if the last couple of edits have been subtly sabotaged to contain bad rules. ;)

                      6 votes
                      1. arghdos
                        Link Parent
                        (and automated to contain random numbers of sabotages) :P

                        (and automated to contain random numbers of sabotages) :P

                        1 vote
                  4. [3]
                    yellow
                    Link Parent
                    Now, I'm no mod and I don't use any other social media sites, but in the event of a total mod strike, couldn't Reddit just take over major subs and outsource the moderation like other sites? The...

                    Now, I'm no mod and I don't use any other social media sites, but in the event of a total mod strike, couldn't Reddit just take over major subs and outsource the moderation like other sites? The major subs would probably be easier to moderate than sites like Facebook and Twitter, with each one only having a handful of rules. Reddit is weird for having these giant subs that have millions looking at them being modded by a few dozen people with no connection to the company. To be fair, this switch probably couldn't happen instantly, but I'd imagine that it could it happen pretty fast and be at least started within a day with enough money.

                    r/pics has less than 30 mods, how long would it take Reddit to replace them with a contract from some Manila support company?

                    1 vote
                    1. [2]
                      Amarok
                      Link Parent
                      Reddit could put asses in chairs pretty fast if they wanted to. That doesn't mean the people filling those seats will be effective. Just look at how much crap the mods get now from the users for...

                      Reddit could put asses in chairs pretty fast if they wanted to. That doesn't mean the people filling those seats will be effective. Just look at how much crap the mods get now from the users for doing their jobs - and those mods care about their communities or they wouldn't be there. Joe random employee won't care, and won't have the knowledge of how the community works. I'd bet they'll end up irritating the users much more than the original mods in most cases.

                      1 vote
                      1. [2]
                        Comment deleted by author
                        Link Parent
                        1. Amarok
                          Link Parent
                          Yeah, that's a good point. Reddit would lose some measure of deniability since they are paying those people to take those actions. No matter how reddit deals with a mod strike, it'd be a shitshow....

                          Yeah, that's a good point. Reddit would lose some measure of deniability since they are paying those people to take those actions.

                          No matter how reddit deals with a mod strike, it'd be a shitshow. The simple truth is, you can't go against your own community and win. You can talk to them, reason with them, but the instant you attack them, it's all downhill. That trust once lost is incredibly difficult to earn back, too.

                          Mods on reddit have a lot more power and responsibility than I think most of them realize.

                          4 votes
                2. [2]
                  arghdos
                  Link Parent
                  Out of curiosity, what would have stopped them from simply booting us before this language was added? I mean, in the heat of the blackout it probably would have escalated the situation to even...

                  Out of curiosity, what would have stopped them from simply booting us before this language was added? I mean, in the heat of the blackout it probably would have escalated the situation to even more ridiculous levels but I was never under any pretense that they didn't have the ability to do so.

                  3 votes
                  1. Deimos
                    (edited )
                    Link Parent
                    Oh, nothing, of course. But it's like moderating a subreddit or anything else - having explicit language that you can point to when people start trying to cause drama can make a huge difference....

                    Oh, nothing, of course. But it's like moderating a subreddit or anything else - having explicit language that you can point to when people start trying to cause drama can make a huge difference. It's more psychological than anything, people react very differently to "I removed that post because I don't think it belongs" and "The post blatantly broke rule 3".

                    4 votes
              2. [2]
                cain
                Link Parent
                You'd be hard pressed to find full mod teams in favor of a blackout of that magnitude. It would never work. Maybe a day or so but not permanently locking the sub. The admins have already show they...

                You'd be hard pressed to find full mod teams in favor of a blackout of that magnitude. It would never work. Maybe a day or so but not permanently locking the sub.

                The admins have already show they will step in and remove top mods who sabotage establish subreddits when they put kotakuinaction back up in no time at night on a weekend when their top mod decided to can it.

                It would make the admins take action but it's not realistic to happen. Because outside of political subs users and mods don't give a damn about The Donald. Definitely not enough to sabotage an entire website over it.

                4 votes
                1. Amarok
                  Link Parent
                  Oh, I wouldn't be so sure. The instant a few top subs lock, it'll snowball into a sitewide blackout again just like last time, because everyone loves to hate on reddit.

                  Oh, I wouldn't be so sure.

                  The instant a few top subs lock, it'll snowball into a sitewide blackout again just like last time, because everyone loves to hate on reddit.

                  1 vote
              3. [4]
                Comment removed by site admin
                Link Parent
                1. [3]
                  Amarok
                  Link Parent
                  My point is that all of those scab mod teams will result in the place turning into a shitshow - and reddit knows that. Call their bluff, getting rid of T_D is not an unreasonable request - most of...

                  My point is that all of those scab mod teams will result in the place turning into a shitshow - and reddit knows that. Call their bluff, getting rid of T_D is not an unreasonable request - most of the userbase will rally behind the mods on this one, it's political suicide for the admins to keep T_D at the expense of half of reddit's moderators.

                  3 votes
                  1. [2]
                    cain
                    Link Parent
                    Reddit isn't going to remove the President of the United States subreddit. They do anything in their power to stay out of mainstream media and a moderator revolt is nothing compared to the PR...

                    Reddit isn't going to remove the President of the United States subreddit. They do anything in their power to stay out of mainstream media and a moderator revolt is nothing compared to the PR nightmare banning T_D would be.

                    7 votes
                    1. Amarok
                      Link Parent
                      Considering more than half of that president's country wants him out (and in jail) and about 98% of the rest of the world does as well, I think the PR nightmare is going to go the other way....

                      Considering more than half of that president's country wants him out (and in jail) and about 98% of the rest of the world does as well, I think the PR nightmare is going to go the other way. Remember who is writing the stories - reddit's competition. They have always taken every opportunity to attack reddit, even making shit up completely on several occasions.

                      I would absolutely love to see a wave of pro-Reddit stories popping up on all of the alt-right websites, though. That'd be some delicious popcorn. :D

                      5 votes
    3. [3]
      Comment deleted by author
      Link Parent
      1. [3]
        Comment removed by site admin
        Link Parent
        1. [2]
          Comment deleted by author
          Link Parent
          1. [2]
            Comment removed by site admin
            Link Parent
            1. [2]
              Comment deleted by author
              Link Parent
              1. cain
                Link Parent
                People in that slack have been default mods. The defaults don't exist anymore and some mods have left the subreddits they use to moderate. I'm not a member of the slack (might join now to see...

                People in that slack have been default mods. The defaults don't exist anymore and some mods have left the subreddits they use to moderate. I'm not a member of the slack (might join now to see though) but I'm sure there are tons of people who weren't default mods yesterday still in the slack.

                5 votes
        2. Akir
          Link Parent
          They have access to the database and the code. They can make it say whatever they want it to say. That being said, I am willing to trust your word on this.

          They have access to the database and the code. They can make it say whatever they want it to say.

          That being said, I am willing to trust your word on this.

          1 vote
    4. Supernova
      Link Parent
      That's more in line with what I thought had happened

      That's more in line with what I thought had happened

      8 votes
    5. Neverland
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      Here is a link to a comment directly from the user in question. Please read the whole thing, but here is the last depressing paragraph: Edit: below is their entire comment in case it goes away...

      Here is a link to a comment directly from the user in question.

      Please read the whole thing, but here is the last depressing paragraph:

      As for why I deleted my accounts, I'm just done with this. The trolls win reddit. I'm not interested in spending my time getting doxxed, death threats, brigades, witch hunts and general reddit vitriol for no good reason. I report a death threat and get a response TWO WEEKS later? Fuck that noise. I find propaganda and get a passive aggressive post about me? Fuck that noise too.
      Fuck The_Donald.
      I'm out.

      Edit: below is their entire comment in case it goes away somehow.


      Burning my last alt to defend an old internet friend, sodypop.

      I deleted /u/DivestTrump. I also deleted two default mod accounts (I left a third in good hands), three century club accounts and a handful of others. All said, I think the reddit economy lost a couple million karma, a decade of gold and one disgruntled user (don't worry, they kept the money from the gold). Shortly, I will delete this account as well.

      To clear up some conspiracies:

      The Russians didn't kill me.
      The admins didn't kill me.
      I have not been recruited nor abducted by a three letter agency.
      /u/sodypop is 100% correct (and also a nice person). The admins neither removed my post nor had anything to do with my account deletion.
      The admins put forth a genuine effort regarding the domains I alerted them to. They're just not very good at it if a dummy like me using publicly available data can find it before them. Furthermore, if a week isn't enough time to track whatever it is they're tracking, they're not doing something right. In their defense, this is likely due to their retention policy. More privacy for you means more privacy for Russian agents. I pissed off spez and other admins by releasing the info when I did. I asked when I could make it public and they said a couple days, so I waited a couple days. I think the confusion was I used my main account (now deleted) to alert them and discuss and they were blindsided that I was also /u/DivestTrump, so they may have expected something else when I said I wanted to take it public. I figured they could see my alts, but apparently, they never bothered to check. I feel releasing the info publicly was the right thing to do. The admins tend to release things framed in a way that is beneficial to them, so beating them to the punch was critical. Also, the midterms are coming and I wanted the information out in time for it to matter. Lastly, I do commend them on their responsiveness. I sent an email to spez, KeyserSosa and a member of the anti-evil team on a Friday evening and had a response in under an hour. No other site would do that. After that, things got ugly.

      When I made my post, the admins were caught off guard. Spez gave me a brief 'I'm not mad, I'm disappointed' response. He seemed like he genuinely wanted to do a thorough dive on the reports and I cut that short. Remember that the sites were on reddit for over a year. So, sorry spez, but I don't feel that bad. I'm one guy that barely knows python and you have dozens of full time software engineers.

      As for why I deleted my accounts, I'm just done with this. The trolls win reddit. I'm not interested in spending my time getting doxxed, death threats, brigades, witch hunts and general reddit vitriol for no good reason. I report a death threat and get a response TWO WEEKS later? Fuck that noise. I find propaganda and get a passive aggressive post about me? Fuck that noise too.

      Fuck The_Donald.

      I'm out.

      8 votes
    6. Amarok
      Link Parent
      If you're still in touch with him, send him an invite. Sounds like he's a good fit for this place. :)

      If you're still in touch with him, send him an invite. Sounds like he's a good fit for this place. :)

      6 votes
    7. somewaffles
      Link Parent
      Is there anyway to verify this?

      Is there anyway to verify this?

      2 votes
    8. Eva
      Link Parent
      This is vaguely off-topic, but regarding something he mentioned in his post: Yuck. I really hope he wasn't moderating two defaults on any pair of those; that'd be breaking the reddit rules!...

      This is vaguely off-topic, but regarding something he mentioned in his post:

      I also deleted two default mod accounts (I left a third in good hands),

      Yuck. I really hope he wasn't moderating two defaults on any pair of those; that'd be breaking the reddit rules!

      Otherwise I generally support some of the things he said.