What are the good ways to deal with situations when a generally good person believes in things like astrology and conspiracy theories?
Probably I'm not alone in such situation when a good person you know believes in something really harmless but still ridiculous in the depth of your mind.
For example, that astrological sign seriously defines compatibility of people, or WTC was demolished intentionally in the US, or GMO is bad because in some experiment rats reportedly stopped reproducing and therefore someone wants to shrink certain human populations by popularizing GMO.
None of such beliefs actually do something directly harmful but sometimes just the fact people you know believe that is almost disgusting. Any proof would be discarded as an "official", biased one, profitable for those who have money and power.
What should be done in such a situation? What would you do if your otherwise perfect friend seriously considered Earth flat?
This is amazing. I find myself being curious most of the time when having deep talks but "crazy" beliefs always put me to combative attitude, off the bat. It's probably even an interesting exercise for mind to get deeper into these beliefs by being curious, and then finding and asking about these observations, like why people born throughout the timeline would be categorized by compatibility into exactly 12 almost equal groups, with boundaries precise to 1 day. Maybe the friend is just too bored to live in a too simple world, without such thing
You can't force someone to change their views. You can, however, suggest possible experiments for them to verify independently, or reframe the way they look at a subject so that they better understand it, or ask them to explain holes in their own views. Whether or not they change their mind, however, is completely up to how receptive they are to having their mind changed.
Ultimately you'll just have to decide whether or not their beliefs are deal breakers for you, and if not, just set those issues aside.
This is something I haven't considered much. So, sifting through every aspect of every "weird" belief and finding contradictions and obviously false statements there, must be not an easy way but it's a thorough way. This is probably kinda a new hope, thanks for the idea.
It's also a quick way to lose a friend. Think about why it matters so much to you what they believe. I have friends like this. I know a person who's a firm flat earth person. It's not worth pointing out inconsistencies or experiments—they're already convinced, they've seen the experiments on youtube, etc. I just leave it alone, because they're otherwise really good friends and not people I want to belittle. If one day they were to ask me to explain why I don't believe what they believe, I'll explain it to them, but I'm not looking for that argument with someone I consider a good friend.
I also have a very good friend who's a huge Trump person, and believes Alex Jones knows more than any honestly-reporting news agency. Do you think I'd get very far arguing with him?
If you must discuss it with them, go into it with the idea that you'd like to have a discussion about their beliefs. Don't frame it as a "I'm going to pick apart every detail until you change your mind," because you know going in that that's not likely.
You could start by distinguishing between conspiracy theories like how the fed gov't refused to cure black men's syphilis, and crazy stuff like flat eartherism.
For flat earth, the one can put up a pole, step back 5 miles, look how much of it got hidden, repeat, see that the curvature goes full circle. But for astrology it's hard to organise a totally transparent blind test, otherwise the person can always say "signs X and Y bicker, it always is, I've seen". Proving GMO doesn't reduce fertility feels like would require becoming a biology teacher. And I'm not sure where the borderline between conspiracy and crazy is...
Astrology is so difficult to disprove to people that believe in it because it requires that belief to confirm its validity. It's really just a written form of cold reading. You believe half of what they say and discard the other half because it's not for you. Check this out:
This is from an astrology website and I won't tell you which sign it's about. If we actually dissect this, it's really just a good educated guess (ambiguous comments can be irritating) followed up by advice on how to deal with that situation. It's super generalized --- but if this happened to you today you'd be hooked.
There in lies the problem -- the more you believe it the more effective it is. I used to believe in astrology (not the crazy deep stuff about transients and pseudo-religious things) but I realized that it's just super general statements that are occasionally true. When they are, it reads like an advice column. When taken at face value in this sense it can be a net positive, but imagine if you woke up reading this statement and believed it to describe your future --
You would be intentionally looking for ambiguous comments because you believed it was going to happen.
Whether you followed the advice or not and whether it actually helped you would be up to the situation. In this sense, astrology isn't patently wrong, it's just framed as future-predicting sage advice. In reality it's just cold reading with a hint of suggestion. In this case, it could damage the relationship by the callous behavior of the last two lines. If you read the advice at best it would be -- "Is someone not giving you straight answers? Ask for clarification"
Now the mental gymnastics it takes to think someone can predict the future and believe astrology is evidence? That's the kool aid talking.
Yeah, I feel like if a view is harmless, then who cares. Our perception of the universe is just a convenient trick our mind plays on us anyway, so we are all really just living in a fantasy world from day one. Some people just like to take it a little further in order to make everything seem a little simpler compared to the already complicated day-to-day.
Ask them questions. Why do you think the government would destroy the WTC at that moment? What was the point of demolishing Building 7? How would you keep the hundreds of people that works have to be involved quiet?
Astrology, the same thing. Just keep asking questions so they can internalize the flaws in their world view.
Maybe I am taking the minority opinion here, but I think this sort of thinking is good for people. Maybe not so much with astrology, but at the root of the conspiracy theorist's mindset is the notion that the government is lying to you. This is not something I would ever try to talk someone out of because it's true and a crucial realization that I wish more people would come to.
AFIK the OG Conspiracy Theory™ is that the Pentagon and the CIA are housing extraterrestrials and crashed UFO space craft. The truth of this theory is that the CIA itself fabricated this story to draw attention away from the experimental the experiment reconnaissance air craft and bombers being tested at Creech Air Force Base.
Sure, the signal to noise ratio with conspiracy theories is very high. But the same is true of white house press briefings since the Nixon era.
In my opinion, belief in shitty conspiracies (as long as they aren't actually a mask for xenophobia, antisemitism etc.) is excusable because the show a recognizance that the government is willfully deceptive and a desire to seek truth.
My big qualm with the majority of content presents itself as being air-tight, irrefutablly absolutely the true and no aspect of any other explanation is valid. I think this converts an inquisitive mindset into something much less receptive. People become just as willing to unquestioningly accept some bogus youtube person as they are to accept some bogus Rumsfeld speech about Saddam having WMD.
I don't know if you can do much of anything if the ideas have set in. If someone is just casually into an idea, asking questions can help them realize the idea is junk. Although If someone has somewhat invested into an idea I don't think you can do anything. They might still change their mind but it will be due to observing discrepancies in their ideas through personal experience. If you do try and talk to them and they think you're trying to change their mind you're more than likely going to push them further into their belief.
I come from a family where belief in conspiracy theories (some of them pretty hardcore) is normal. My brother got into it in his late teens and dragged my mom into it. She now believes in mostly the same things that he does. My father takes a more neutral stance and actually discusses these things, but has said some dumb shit in the past because of his *everything is possible" stance.
I've come to treat the entire thing as a religion. People believe in conspiracy theories just like they do in gods. Discussing it is essentially impossible and to do it even properly would require more research on my part so I could properly refute the points they're making but honestly, I have better things to do, like studying. So I just smile and nod in conversations and try to avoid them if possible, otherwise the discussion doesn't end.
You should try to figure out what their views actually are and why they subscribe to them. For example, I was raised with astrology as a cultural practice and I know a lot about it from self-studying. I would find it really hurtful if someone assumed I had an inferior intellect or was a worse person than they are inherently because of something that’s just been a part of my beliefs on and off throughout my life. Especially if they assume it’s pettier (“LolL YouRe a LEO that means YOU LIKE ATTENTION”) than what I actually use it for. Like any religious or cultural practice, it’s idealist thinking to think you can just insult someone into believing it has no value for them. You should try to understand the value it has for them and stop assuming your viewpoint is the only rational one with stuff like that.
Outright conspiracies and harmful misinformation like peddling essential oils or flat eartherism is different, and should be handled slightly differently, but there’s still a core principle where you should try to figure out why the person felt that mainstream beliefs failed them, while holding your ground about what you know is factually true. It can be exhausting — It requires a lot of patience and empathy while also having strong boundaries. Disentangling where the beliefs they espouse came from helps too. I have a friend who is literally Jewish and believes in a bunch of YouTube conspiracy theories and it kind of helps to go over the historicity of where they came from to be like “dude this is an anti-Semitic / racist theory that was constructed to bolster propaganda about xyz and it comes from here and is supposed to make you think blah blah blah” — That kind of thing.