24 votes

Topic deleted by author

36 comments

  1. [19]
    tomf
    Link
    Am I alone in being surprised that the sub exists to begin with? Can you provide some more context as to why this specific video is causing so much drama in that community?

    Am I alone in being surprised that the sub exists to begin with? Can you provide some more context as to why this specific video is causing so much drama in that community?

    21 votes
    1. [7]
      Amarok
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      Because reddit usually doesn't bother censoring any of the videos shared there - which typically involve death, murder, etc caught on camera. In this particular case, reddit is censoring the...
      • Exemplary

      Because reddit usually doesn't bother censoring any of the videos shared there - which typically involve death, murder, etc caught on camera. In this particular case, reddit is censoring the video, apparently because of some Norwegian law - and law enforcement contacted reddit to get them to delete the content. It's your usual anti-censorship circlejerk caused by reddit's usual inconsistent behavior. The video in question is four allegedly muslim men beheading a pair of young white Norwegian women while they were backpacking in Morocco.

      The lesson here for me was that the Norwegian government is foolish enough to think they can take content down off of the internet once it's been released into the wild. :P

      Edit: We have some actual news about this now. It seems this was indeed an ISIS killing, according to the authorities.

      22 votes
      1. [5]
        tomf
        Link Parent
        Definitely. I read through the thread, and its definitely going to be the so-called Streisand effect for some people. I've known of that sub for a long time, but I always figured it was car...

        The lesson here for me was that the Norwegian government is foolish enough to think they can take content down off of the internet once it's been released into the wild. :P

        Definitely. I read through the thread, and its definitely going to be the so-called Streisand effect for some people.

        I've known of that sub for a long time, but I always figured it was car accidents and... less gruesome stuff. Not straight up murder in some cases.

        On one hand I can understand the community's frustration -- Reddit has always been inconsistent with nearly every principal.

        I didn't watch any videos, but the titles were enough to give me a picture of what the sub is about. I'm honestly surprised that Reddit allows it at all. Though, there are probably thousands of brutal subs that I am completely unaware of.

        7 votes
        1. [2]
          Amarok
          Link Parent
          I'm more aware of that place because the neutrality and competence of their mod team is fairly legendary given the highly controversial nature of the content that is their day to day fare. There's...
          • Exemplary

          I'm more aware of that place because the neutrality and competence of their mod team is fairly legendary given the highly controversial nature of the content that is their day to day fare. There's not many people who would want to watch that stuff, let alone try to curate a place that features it prominently.

          It's gone downhill, though. It used to be a fairly rational place that focused more on mortality, and it could even be oddly life-affirming at times. At some point, though, users started pushing the muslim-murder-video angle all the time, and that content started to become much more prominent. The usual racism and bullshit followed with it. Most of the people who were part of the original community moved on. All that's really left there now is your typical two-minutes-hate forum focused on anyone who can be construed as muslim doing anything that can be construed as murder, used to push the sort of propaganda you'd expect. This particular video is absolutely perfect for that. Any other content gets drowned out by that drek now.

          17 votes
          1. tomf
            Link Parent
            Both you and @Adys mentioned the life affirming aspects of the community. To me, that's fascinating. I hadn't considered that -- despite feeling the same thing when I've seen a train hit a car and...

            Both you and @Adys mentioned the life affirming aspects of the community. To me, that's fascinating. I hadn't considered that -- despite feeling the same thing when I've seen a train hit a car and the driver seems to magically walk away.

            Thanks so much for this insight. I appreciate it.

            9 votes
        2. [3]
          Comment removed by site admin
          Link Parent
          1. tomf
            Link Parent
            wtf. that's heartbreaking. Reading through the thread... I just don't get it.

            wtf. that's heartbreaking. Reading through the thread... I just don't get it.

            3 votes
          2. Odysseus
            Link Parent
            I actually remember watching that livestream as it happened. He was on /r9k/ a lot, was fairly active in a few of their discord servers as well.

            I actually remember watching that livestream as it happened. He was on /r9k/ a lot, was fairly active in a few of their discord servers as well.

            2 votes
      2. [2]
        Comment deleted by author
        Link Parent
        1. yellow
          Link Parent
          You know it makes me wonder just how effective removing media really is. We all talk about the Streisand effect, but couldn't it all just be survivorship bias?

          You know it makes me wonder just how effective removing media really is. We all talk about the Streisand effect, but couldn't it all just be survivorship bias?

    2. [10]
      Adys
      Link Parent
      WPD is filled with three - sometimes overlapping - categories of people: People who browse to remind themselves of human fragility, mortality, etc for similar reasons that arachnophobes browse...

      Can you provide some more context as to why this specific video is causing so much drama in that community?

      WPD is filled with three - sometimes overlapping - categories of people:

      • People who browse to remind themselves of human fragility, mortality, etc for similar reasons that arachnophobes browse /r/spiders.
      • Psychos and other low-lifes who get off on murder, gore etc
      • Rightwing racist nutjobs who get off on seeing specifically murders committed outside the US for various reasons: Justifying how violent other countries are, how violent other "races" are, religion, etc. In other words patting themselves on the back for being a "good, proper person who hates the people who'd do these atrocities and anyone else who's the same ethnicity or religion as them".

      A quick read through the thread shows the outrage is from category #3. They seem to have gotten this idea that the police wants to hide that video so "people don't find out" how violent Morocco is.

      Needless to say, they're not very bright.

      20 votes
      1. [6]
        tomf
        Link Parent
        Reading through the thread, people reference a site called 'bestgore', which some suggested caters to group three. I can understand the community's anger -- but its still a disgusting subject to...

        Reading through the thread, people reference a site called 'bestgore', which some suggested caters to group three.

        I can understand the community's anger -- but its still a disgusting subject to build around. As I said above, I always figured WPD was car accidents (etc) and not outright murder.

        5 votes
        1. [2]
          Adys
          Link Parent
          It's a very uncensored community and I'm sympathetic to that, despite groups 2 and 3. Yes it's a disgusting subject, but well… I think about the Khashoggi murder sometimes and how viceral people's...

          It's a very uncensored community and I'm sympathetic to that, despite groups 2 and 3. Yes it's a disgusting subject, but well…

          I think about the Khashoggi murder sometimes and how viceral people's reaction has been to it. People are horrified because they hear about how he was cut down while alive etc. They understand how wrong this is because it's not a statistic, it's a direct line to how fucked up the world is. Without those details, Khashoggi would have just been a footnote: "Turkey investigates alleged murder of journalist by Saudi Arabian officials."

          People hear "thousands dead in Iraq" and they brush it off. Hell I've often seen people watch mainstream war footage of Iraq, Syria etc and brushing it off, not really connecting. Because it's not the painful deaths of someone who could have been their neighbour or their sister. "It's just thousands of people dying, war sucks".

          WPD has that effect of reminding you how personal each and every death is, whether it's suicidal, accidental, homicidal, or casualty of war. The Khashoggi effect.

          16 votes
          1. tomf
            Link Parent
            The insight into this community is truly eye-opening. I appreciate your thoughts on this. You're right about the masses vs individual deaths context. I'm definitely in that camp where there's no...

            The insight into this community is truly eye-opening. I appreciate your thoughts on this.

            You're right about the masses vs individual deaths context. I'm definitely in that camp where there's no way in hell I'd want to see anything in that sub, yet a news story showing the brutalities of war barely phases me, as if its a sort of fiction.

            Thanks again for speaking further to all of this.

            7 votes
        2. Amarok
          Link Parent
          I hadn't heard of bestgore before - I always tended to use liveleak for the 'shit just got real' videos. I tracked bg down and they do indeed still have the video, with a much more voat-like...

          I hadn't heard of bestgore before - I always tended to use liveleak for the 'shit just got real' videos. I tracked bg down and they do indeed still have the video, with a much more voat-like comment section (seriously, it's baaad).

          What made me chuckle a bit was that bestgore is a Canadian site just like Tildes - and Canada has very strong laws against this sort of content passed fairly recently. This may end up being the video that gets bestgore noticed and taken down. All it'd take is a phone call from Norway's officials to Canada's enforcement agency, and if they are willing to call reddit, I'm sure they are willing to make that call.

          4 votes
        3. [2]
          Comment deleted by author
          Link Parent
          1. Amarok
            Link Parent
            I edited my comment above to include a google-translated version of a news article about this. According to the authorities this was an ISIS killing, and they've got the video of the four perps...

            I edited my comment above to include a google-translated version of a news article about this. According to the authorities this was an ISIS killing, and they've got the video of the four perps sitting in front of an ISIS flag that was posted last week to prove it.

            1 vote
        4. Octofox
          Link Parent
          I checked it out once about 2 years ago just out of curiosity and it was entirely people getting hit by cars and industrial accidents. Kind of interesting for a quick look but not a place you...

          I checked it out once about 2 years ago just out of curiosity and it was entirely people getting hit by cars and industrial accidents. Kind of interesting for a quick look but not a place you would hang around.

      2. [4]
        Comment deleted by author
        Link Parent
        1. [2]
          Adys
          Link Parent
          Sorry, I'm all "information wants to be free" but this idea that people have "a right" to view a video of two women getting raped and killed is bullshit. The victims would probably disagree with...

          Sorry, I'm all "information wants to be free" but this idea that people have "a right" to view a video of two women getting raped and killed is bullshit.

          1. The victims would probably disagree with you
          2. Police is following its usual procedure with regards to evidence, chain of custody, due process, etc. Not wanting a video of the murder to be out there until the murderers are caught is pretty standard, futile as it may be at this point.

          If you're getting worked up over this you need to do some serious introspection.

          14 votes
          1. frickindeal
            Link Parent
            Damn, I had just read about these two women being missing, and then found beheaded. I had no idea there was a video. I've never made it through a beheading video, and don't plan to now. They had...

            Damn, I had just read about these two women being missing, and then found beheaded. I had no idea there was a video. I've never made it through a beheading video, and don't plan to now. They had been offered a mountain climbing guide but had declined. I have to wonder if he/she would have been able to help, or would have just ended up dying the same way. It's just horrible to think that people feel not just the desire, but any sort of right to watch things like that.

            3 votes
        2. Algernon_Asimov
          Link Parent
          Information is one thing. Watching a video of someone being killed is another. That's just gratuitous voyeurism.

          People have a right to information.

          Information is one thing. Watching a video of someone being killed is another. That's just gratuitous voyeurism.

          5 votes
    3. Hypersapien
      Link Parent
      I'm not surprised at all. I'm fully aware of the depths of depravity the human soul can get to. Looking into the abyss is very addictive.

      I'm not surprised at all. I'm fully aware of the depths of depravity the human soul can get to.

      Looking into the abyss is very addictive.

  2. Happy_Shredder
    Link
    Not sure if anyone else will find this useful, but I think some context is helpful. See, for example:...
    7 votes
  3. [16]
    MimicSquid
    Link
    So I'd like a bit of context before I open a link to a quarantined subreddit called "Watch People Die". What is this, and why is it interesting?

    So I'd like a bit of context before I open a link to a quarantined subreddit called "Watch People Die". What is this, and why is it interesting?

    6 votes
    1. [5]
      Deimos
      Link Parent
      I'd like to edit the title to have that context in it as well. Here's the title and text of the post that's being linked to:
      • Exemplary

      I'd like to edit the title to have that context in it as well. Here's the title and text of the post that's being linked to:

      DO NOT POST the video depicting the murder of one of the Scandinavian tourists.

      If you haven't already noticed, the recent post has been wiped from reddit. Not 'removed' by admin but completely nuked. Including all the comments. This is where the link now takes you to:

      http://i.imgur.com/YEmpp17.jpg

      It's safe to assume admin did this for a reason, and that reason is Norway's NCIS.

      https://m.nettavisen.no/nyheter/kripos-forsker-a-fjerne-marokko-video-fra-internett/3423571581.html

      Translated (thanks to /u/vetle666):

      It says that KRIPOS (Norway's National Criminal Investigation Service) "are working in cooperation with Danish police to remove a video published on the internet in connection to the murders in marocco".

      The article also states:

      "Kripos and the danish bureau of intelligence have contacted several service providers to get the video removed from the internet"

      "We are doing this in regards for the dependents and to get control of information about when and where the video was first published, says information advisor Aksel Due from Kripos. "


      So.....
      DO NOT REPOST THE VIDEO HERE, OTHERWISE YOU WILL BE BANNED.

      We don't want to get on admins bad side, we'd rather have a quarantined sub than a banned sub.

      PS: I can't check this post for spelling mistakes cause I'm at work, so I apologise in advance.

      15 votes
      1. [5]
        Comment deleted by author
        Link Parent
        1. [4]
          Deimos
          Link Parent
          Sure, I'll take a swing at it, thanks. Let me know if you'd like it edited to something else if you don't like what I come up with.

          Sure, I'll take a swing at it, thanks. Let me know if you'd like it edited to something else if you don't like what I come up with.

          3 votes
          1. [4]
            Comment deleted by author
            Link Parent
            1. [3]
              Deimos
              (edited )
              Link Parent
              nsfw has the special red style/treatment and there's nothing special for nsfl, so it's definitely better to use nsfw for now. There's an interesting possibility on Tildes with the hierarchical...

              I saw you also added the nsfw tag as well. If it’s available, could you make that the nsfl tag instead?

              nsfw has the special red style/treatment and there's nothing special for nsfl, so it's definitely better to use nsfw for now. There's an interesting possibility on Tildes with the hierarchical tags to be able to do something like nsfw.gore or nsfw.nudity to be able to specify why something is NSFW, but that also currently messes with the special style.

              Edit: added an issue to fix this at some point

              9 votes
              1. [3]
                Comment deleted by author
                Link Parent
                1. Amarok
                  Link Parent
                  You'd also be able to filter the entire nsfw tag, or only filter nsfw.gore. Using the hierarchy model like that helps the filtering capability here become very precise.

                  You'd also be able to filter the entire nsfw tag, or only filter nsfw.gore. Using the hierarchy model like that helps the filtering capability here become very precise.

                  6 votes
                2. frickindeal
                  Link Parent
                  Did you just go there? /s They're groups on Tildes, just for clarity.

                  since you have hierarchical subreddits.

                  Did you just go there? /s

                  They're groups on Tildes, just for clarity.

                  5 votes
    2. [11]
      Comment deleted by author
      Link Parent
      1. [10]
        Deimos
        Link Parent
        Honestly, WatchPeopleDie is pretty much the perfect example of a subreddit that should be quarantined, in my opinion. It keeps it separated from the rest of the site, and ensures that anyone...

        Honestly, WatchPeopleDie is pretty much the perfect example of a subreddit that should be quarantined, in my opinion. It keeps it separated from the rest of the site, and ensures that anyone that's going into it is doing so deliberately, and understands that it contains extremely shocking content. I'm not a fan of the quarantine system or how it's used overall, but WPD is a good place to use it.

        As for the post itself, the screenshot that the mod posted shows that reddit used their "takedown tool" on the post, which usually happens in response to legal requests. You can compare the similarity to the "surprised and censored Snoo" shown in this old post about improving the transparency of takedowns (which they gave up on a while ago).

        13 votes
        1. [10]
          Comment deleted by author
          Link Parent
          1. [2]
            Algernon_Asimov
            Link Parent
            I think it's ironic you're complaining about thought-policing here on Tildes. Half the shit they post or say in The_Donald (and similar subreddits) wouldn't even be permitted here, let alone have...

            I hate how they police thoughts; how would you feel if r/The_Donald was quarantined with the message, “This sub is dedicated to promoting misleading content. For more information about immigration, visit (left-leaning site).”

            I think it's ironic you're complaining about thought-policing here on Tildes. Half the shit they post or say in The_Donald (and similar subreddits) wouldn't even be permitted here, let alone have whole forums devoted to it. You won't find that sort of racism or homophobia or sexism or incitement of violence here on Tildes at all, not even behind a quarantine page.

            I mean... you're complaining about policing thought by posting on a forum where one of the selling points is "it will also never be described as anything like 'an absolute free speech site'." I think that's amusing. :)

            Tildes is far more censorious than Reddit ever will be - and that's one reason I'm here.

            13 votes
            1. [2]
              Comment deleted by author
              Link Parent
              1. [2]
                Comment deleted by author
                Link Parent
                1. Algernon_Asimov
                  Link Parent
                  You wouldn't be able to take the text from most of those images and post that text here on Tildes. It's not just about image posts. It's about not tolerating hate speech and bigotry here.

                  You wouldn't be able to take the text from most of those images and post that text here on Tildes. It's not just about image posts. It's about not tolerating hate speech and bigotry here.

                  5 votes
          2. [2]
            edward
            Link Parent
            /r/FULLCOMMUNISM: This community is quarantined It is dedicated to shocking or highly offensive content. For historical information on communism, please see the resources available at the Project...

            “This sub is dedicated to promoting misleading content. For more information about immigration, visit (left-leaning site).”

            /r/FULLCOMMUNISM:

            This community is quarantined

            It is dedicated to shocking or highly offensive content. For historical information on communism, please see the resources available at the Project on the Reconciliation of European Histories (https://eureconciliation.eu/institutions-promoting-awareness-and-remembrance-of-communist-crimes/).

            Right now, someone wanting to see that post wouldn’t know it was censored via legal request

            IIRC when Germany asked reddit to hide content from German users they made it send Error 451: Unavailable for Legal Reasons, I wouldn't be surprised if that post is the same.

            4 votes
            1. [2]
              Comment deleted by author
              Link Parent
              1. edward
                Link Parent
                Ha, and if you look at the bad certificate it's for a domain parking site (parkingcrew.net). But it was a link to a right-wing group's anti-communist propaganda, hardly "(left leaning site)".

                Ha, and if you look at the bad certificate it's for a domain parking site (parkingcrew.net).

                But it was a link to a right-wing group's anti-communist propaganda, hardly "(left leaning site)".

                3 votes
          3. [4]
            frickindeal
            Link Parent
            Not sure what the difference between your Apollo and mine might be, but I just opened it with a search in the top bar of the main page. I just typed it in and it opened, no quarantine notice or...

            If I want to use Apollo to view r/WatchPeopleDie, my only option would be to go to my large list of subscriptions and find it in the list. You can’t search for it, even if you already said you were okay with going there.

            Not sure what the difference between your Apollo and mine might be, but I just opened it with a search in the top bar of the main page. I just typed it in and it opened, no quarantine notice or anything.

            3 votes
            1. [3]
              Amarok
              Link Parent
              On a guess, you're on a newer version that fixed this problem, or you've got a setting somewhere in apollo (or possibly, in your reddit profile) that effectively ignores the quarantine. My money's...

              On a guess, you're on a newer version that fixed this problem, or you've got a setting somewhere in apollo (or possibly, in your reddit profile) that effectively ignores the quarantine. My money's on it being some obscure reddit user profile setting that's intentionally hard to find - like the one that completely disables the new interface.

              2 votes
              1. [3]
                Comment deleted by author
                Link Parent
                1. [2]
                  Amarok
                  Link Parent
                  I can't find one either. Does apollo search your subscribed subs? Maybe subscribing to the quarantined places will make them pop up in the results. They definitely don't come back from reddit search.

                  I can't find one either. Does apollo search your subscribed subs? Maybe subscribing to the quarantined places will make them pop up in the results. They definitely don't come back from reddit search.

                  3 votes
                  1. Eva
                    Link Parent
                    @haykam821 Reddit won't show quarantined subs to you by default unless you've historically said they're okay, if I'm remembering correctly. It's not a user setting, though.

                    @haykam821

                    Reddit won't show quarantined subs to you by default unless you've historically said they're okay, if I'm remembering correctly. It's not a user setting, though.

                    1 vote
          4. Amarok
            Link Parent
            I rather like the idea of making all takedown requests a prominent part of public record. If the request is going to be honored, people should get to see it, and know who made it.

            I rather like the idea of making all takedown requests a prominent part of public record. If the request is going to be honored, people should get to see it, and know who made it.

            2 votes