19 votes

Why is a border wall such a polarising issue in American politics?

27 comments

  1. [4]
    Kraetos
    Link
    The answers in that stack exchange thread are pretty good but it seems like there's one key point missing. The asker ended his question with this: Democrats can't make a deal because congressional...

    The answers in that stack exchange thread are pretty good but it seems like there's one key point missing. The asker ended his question with this:

    They could make a deal and get something that would make a real material difference to the electorate, and I don't see why they're going to the mat for this.

    Democrats can't make a deal because congressional Republicans don't want the wall either. The Wall isn't an actual bargaining chip. If congressional Republicans give up something the Democrats want for The Wall that's a net loss for congressional Republicans because it means they gave the Democrats something Democrats want in exchange for something Republicans don't want.

    Compromise is impossible when neither party at the table actually wants the thing being argued over. Democrats have considerably more leverage here because they can be open about the fact that they don't want The Wall. It's trickier for Republicans because most of them have to pretend to want it. That's why McConnell won't even hold a vote: any bill which includes wall funding is a losing proposition for the GOP.

    17 votes
    1. spctrvl
      Link Parent
      There's also the consideration that making a deal at this point is legitimising government shutdowns as a negotiating tactic. The notion that the senate majority leader and the president alone can...

      There's also the consideration that making a deal at this point is legitimising government shutdowns as a negotiating tactic. The notion that the senate majority leader and the president alone can take the livelihoods of a million people hostage whenever they need leverage is a dangerous one to say the least.

      18 votes
    2. [2]
      SunSpotter
      Link Parent
      Honestly the way I see this going, is with Trump gradually granting pay to more and more sectors of the government until all that's left is the parts of the government his administration doesn't...

      Honestly the way I see this going, is with Trump gradually granting pay to more and more sectors of the government until all that's left is the parts of the government his administration doesn't want to fund anyways.

      The only way this ends quickly is if he forgets to pay people who fulfill jobs like air traffic control. Those people could effectively ground air travel throughout the US if they did a strike.

      2 votes
      1. Kraetos
        Link Parent
        Unless Trump's approval rating really nosedives as a result of the shutdown. If he breaks through the 35% floor and plunges into the 20s, there are more options. McConnell could relent. 20 GOP...

        Unless Trump's approval rating really nosedives as a result of the shutdown.

        If he breaks through the 35% floor and plunges into the 20s, there are more options. McConnell could relent. 20 GOP senators could defect, pass a budget, and override the inevitable veto.

        Of course if that happens, things could get real dicey. Who knows.

        In any case I suspect this is one of those "gradually, then quickly" situations. Trump's support will slowly erode, and then something will happen and it will quickly collapse. Various Republicans will be falling over themselves to put as much distance between themselves and Trump as fast as they can. Ultimately, all it takes is for Fox News to turn on him.

        2 votes
  2. hungariantoast
    Link
    I randomly came across this while browsing Stack Exchange. As usual, the answers are pretty quality. If you ask me, even expanding the border wall with Mexico is looking like a greater waste of...

    I randomly came across this while browsing Stack Exchange. As usual, the answers are pretty quality.

    If you ask me, even expanding the border wall with Mexico is looking like a greater waste of money every year, let alone building a whole new one. I also learned a lot of new info about US immigration and our border with Mexico, including some of the retaining effects that the current border has on immigrants in the United States (such as making them more likely to stay, rather than return seasonally).

    By the way, I don't recall any other topics linking Stack Exchange on Tildes, but good questions on the site do typically include in-depth content, so I figured posting this would be fine.

    14 votes
  3. [3]
    Deimos
    Link
    It's been linked in some of the other threads on the subject, but if you haven't already checked it out, I highly suggest looking at the Washington Post interactive flyover of the whole border:...

    It's been linked in some of the other threads on the subject, but if you haven't already checked it out, I highly suggest looking at the Washington Post interactive flyover of the whole border: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/national/us-mexico-border-flyover/

    11 votes
    1. [2]
      ali
      Link Parent
      It's behind a pay wall for me, could anyone share Screenshots?

      It's behind a pay wall for me, could anyone share Screenshots?

      3 votes
      1. Hypersapien
        Link Parent
        You can get past the Washington Post paywall by opening it in an incognito window (or equivalent for your browser}.

        You can get past the Washington Post paywall by opening it in an incognito window (or equivalent for your browser}.

        3 votes
  4. [14]
    stromm
    Link
    Multiple cities along the border have built walls. And those walls directly accounted for at least a 50% drop in attempts to illegally cross the border. So a wall DOES make sense on that fact...

    Multiple cities along the border have built walls. And those walls directly accounted for at least a 50% drop in attempts to illegally cross the border.

    So a wall DOES make sense on that fact alone.

    $5 billion dollars of the National budge is equivalent to a person with a $40,000 yearly income spending $50.

    FIFTY dollars.

    FEDERAL money is not the real issue in this debate.

    Politicians against the wall know that. They are against the wall because they expect the people who cross the border this way will eventually vote for their party. And they have invested in businesses who cater to those people. So they will increase their personal wealth.

    6 votes
    1. [6]
      hungariantoast
      Link Parent
      I'm not going to write a reply to this comment, not yet, as it's the weekend and I have family coming over (and I feel like @dubteedub could do a better job at it than me) but, I just want to...

      I'm not going to write a reply to this comment, not yet, as it's the weekend and I have family coming over (and I feel like @dubteedub could do a better job at it than me) but, I just want to confirm what you mean real quick, because your comment is lacking some specifics which one would need to safely base a reply on.

      So a wall DOES make sense on that fact alone.

      Walls are known to be barriers, yes, but do you mean it makes sense because it is factually effective as a barrier, or because illegal immigration should be stopped?

      FEDERAL money is not the real issue in this debate.

      What about everything else that is more important than The Wall that would cost a similar or less amount of money that the government isn't focusing on? Why should we prioritize The Wall over more important issues, or alternatively, what makes The Wall a more important issue?

      They are against the wall because they expect the people who cross the border this way will eventually vote for their party.

      I know you didn't say Democrats, but are you suggesting that Democrats are against The Wall because illegal immigrants are more likely to vote for their party? Therefore what? They want to encourage illegal immigration (by being against The Wall) in hopes of gaining more voters?

      If you meant another political party (or could even just provide a list of the politicians you meant to name) please let me know which one.

      And they have invested in businesses who cater to those people.

      Who, as in, which politicians, have invested in which businesses (by name, please) and how do they cater to "those people" who I can only assume you mean immigrants.

      So they will increase their personal wealth.

      Please, once again, explain which politicians "they" constitutes and how exactly their personal wealth will inflate as a result of everything else you have stated and that I have quoted above.

      Thanks.

      22 votes
      1. [5]
        stromm
        Link Parent
        "but do you mean it makes sense because it is factually effective as a barrier, or because illegal immigration should be stopped?" My on-topic point is that they make effective barriers. However,...

        "but do you mean it makes sense because it is factually effective as a barrier, or because illegal immigration should be stopped?"
        My on-topic point is that they make effective barriers. However, you asked about the second part (not on topic), but I do agree with that too. Illegal immigration needs stopped. I just can't fathom why anyone would think otherwise. I'm all for legal immigration. I'm not for someone making their first act into the United States, that of breaking a major Federal Law. I will never be for breaking the law. It's cool people may not agree with a law. Fine. Work to get the law revoked or changed. That's part of laws. Just blatantly disregarding a law because you disagree with it and getting upset because you suffer the consequences is crap.

        "They vote against the wall"... Hmm, I'm pretty sure I stated Democrats in the preceding sentences.

        I don't have time or inclination to pull a bunch of references for you. The info is out there. You're more likely to believe this by finding it on your own. Yea, Yea "That's not how this works"... LOL. We're on the net, not in a college class or professional office. Go learn it for yourself or not. If you don't want to, me giving you links won't matter.

        1. [2]
          hungariantoast
          Link Parent
          I agree, illegal immigration does need to be stopped, which is why it was foolish from the beginning to implement stricter immigration policies. If stopping illegal immigration is the goal, then...

          Illegal immigration needs stopped.

          I agree, illegal immigration does need to be stopped, which is why it was foolish from the beginning to implement stricter immigration policies. If stopping illegal immigration is the goal, then the only solution that works, that should ever be attempted, is to make legal immigration easier.

          I will never be for breaking the law.

          Laws, made by men, can be as faulty as the men that make them. It's very unhealthy (and in my opinion, shortsighted) to declare your support for all laws. What about when a law gets repealed? Do you conjure negativity towards people who broke laws at some point, even if that law has since been repealed?

          It's cool people may not agree with a law. Fine. Work to get the law revoked or changed. That's part of laws. Just blatantly disregarding a law because you disagree with it and getting upset because you suffer the consequences is crap.

          I'd have to argue that history in the United States alone demonstrates why breaking laws is a fundamentally necessary part of our democracy, and serves for the betterment of our society.

          A population that follows laws without question is a population that has lost all of its ability to express discontent.

          Immigrants illegally enter and stay in the United States because some Americans, who are often times racist, violent, and always misinformed, have been making it harder for them to enter legally for the past decades. What could have been and for some time was the economically beneficial flow of labor between Mexico and the United States is being hamstrung by conservative politicians (some even wearing the label "Democrat") to the point that the only alternative for immigrants is to enter, or more likely, stay, illegally.

          Sure, you could ask "But if it's illegal, then why don't they just leave?" or "Well why don't they just come legally?" and the answer to both questions is because they can no longer enter the United States.

          The difficulty which immigrants face to enter the United States legally is massive, complex, and constricted to the point that it is damaging our economy. We have, through restrictions in immigration policy, inflated the number of immigrants and arbitrarily made them "criminals" because it suits some politician's campaigns and offices to do so.

          The only thing these policies have cut down on are the number of legal immigrants, not the number of bodies crossing the border. It's all a fa├žade backed by political machinations, evidence be damned.

          So I think you have a complete misunderstanding of immigration in the United States.

          Much like the "War on Drugs," (another conservative-implemented policy that has only made the United States and even other nations worse) immigration reform has been a complete disaster. The only thing it has successfully done is give conservative politicians an easy target to raise support for and occupy their time in office, while not affecting the number of immigrants, making the immigration practice more dangerous, empowering cartels, and negatively impacting the economy of the United States of America.

          These two policies dealing with immigration and drug trafficking have been complete and utter failures, larger in scale than Iraq, Afghanistan, and Vietnam combined, both in terms of costs incurred and deaths caused.

          (And yes, all three of those conflicts, for which thousands of Americans died for, were complete and utter failures. A waste of lives only those without a grasp of history can even begin to think appreciable.)

          "They vote against the wall"... Hmm, I'm pretty sure I stated Democrats in the preceding sentences.

          The word "Democrats" shows up nowhere in your comment. I explicitly stated that my questions were being asked to get relevant details to base a reply off of so that I didn't have to assume anything. I've went ahead without that luxury for this comment.

          I don't have time or inclination to pull a bunch of references for you. The info is out there. You're more likely to believe this by finding it on your own.

          Don't worry, if the info is out there, I will find it, but I'm open to reading any source provided by anyone, even those that come from sources that are... less than reputable. Don't think me so narrow-minded please.

          Yea, Yea "That's not how this works"... LOL. We're on the net, not in a college class or professional office. Go learn it for yourself or not. If you don't want to, me giving you links won't matter.

          In the end, I just wanted you to provide some specifics for me to base my reply on, as trying to start a discussion without them meant that I could make some mistaken assumptions and have to back peddle to make any sense, which is less than ideal. If you cannot or will not provide those specifics then I think that illustrates more about your position than mine, and I am fine with that.

          Thanks for taking the time to read this.

          8 votes
          1. Algernon_Asimov
            Link Parent
            Keep in mind that, for some people, this is a feature, not a bug. If the restrictive immigration laws are keeping people out of the country, some people believe that is a good thing. The laws are...

            Sure, you could ask "But if it's illegal, then why don't they just leave?" or "Well why don't they just come legally?" and the answer to both questions is because they can no longer enter the United States.

            Keep in mind that, for some people, this is a feature, not a bug. If the restrictive immigration laws are keeping people out of the country, some people believe that is a good thing. The laws are there to keep people out, so if potential immigrants find it hard to move to the USA, the laws are achieving their purpose according to the people who don't want immigration.

            What you see as a negative, they see as a positive. You complaining that the laws make it harder for people to immigrate to the USA is not a problem for them. That argument won't sway them.

            And, if people are bypassing the laws and entering the country illegally... that's all the more reason to find another way to keep them out.

            You're making the other side's argument for them!

            Remember that, while your goal might be to let more people in to the USA, the folks you're debating with do not share that same goal.

            5 votes
        2. cadadr
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          I am reading a story about a guy who obeyed the law for law it was. He faced capital punisment in Jerusalem 15 years later. I am not an American, but I feel shame for what I read happening at the...

          I will never be for breaking the law. It's cool people may not agree with a law. Fine. Work to get the law revoked or changed. That's part of laws. Just blatantly disregarding a law because you disagree with it and getting upset because you suffer the consequences is crap.

          I am reading a story about a guy who obeyed the law for law it was. He faced capital punisment in Jerusalem 15 years later.

          I am not an American, but I feel shame for what I read happening at the southern border. Recently I heard about a girl dying out of thirst b/c inattendance (at best...). Surely the tables will turn. America's cultural influence is stagnating, the world is trying to overcome her economical dominance. She is not seen as the brutish but just older sister anymore. Inhumanity at the border does not help.

          Others have pondered upon the volatility of laws, so I won't.

          7 votes
        3. Pilgrim
          Link Parent
          I mean who is, right? But that line always rang hollow to me as it is so often said with a "holier-than-thou" air that is so reminiscent of church ladies decrying the wearing of white after labor...

          I'm not for someone making their first act into the United States, that of breaking a major Federal Law.

          I mean who is, right? But that line always rang hollow to me as it is so often said with a "holier-than-thou" air that is so reminiscent of church ladies decrying the wearing of white after labor day. "A law was broken, I do declare!"

          I'll remind you dear citizen that this country was built by men (and women) who defied their King and decried his Kingdom. Thank god their first act of creating this country was to break a law.

          4 votes
    2. [4]
      dubteedub
      Link Parent
      Do you have a source for that Yes, it certainly is. We have limited tax dollars, particularly after Republicans keep lowerong tax rates, and woth out limited dolars we need to prioritize where...

      Multiple cities along the border have built walls. And those walls directly accounted for at least a 50% drop in attempts to illegally cross the border.

      Do you have a source for that

      FEDERAL money is not the real issue in this debate.

      Yes, it certainly is. We have limited tax dollars, particularly after Republicans keep lowerong tax rates, and woth out limited dolars we need to prioritize where that money goes.

      Spending five BILLION dollars is a lot of money no matter how you slice it and I would argue it is a waste of resources that would be better spent elsewhere, ideally in my opinion to fix our actual decades old infrastructure that is falling apart at the seams.

      They are against the wall because they expect the people who cross the border this way will eventually vote for their party. And they have invested in businesses who cater to those people. So they will increase their personal wealth.

      Frankly, that is bullshit. You are either making shit up here or spouting baseless consporacy theories.

      15 votes
      1. [3]
        stromm
        Link Parent
        I'll have to dig for it. I read it about two months ago. Not just on right-wing or conspiracy sites. Did you know that there's already about a thousand miles of barriers (walls and fences) along...

        I'll have to dig for it. I read it about two months ago. Not just on right-wing or conspiracy sites.
        Did you know that there's already about a thousand miles of barriers (walls and fences) along the border? Yep, from the coast by San Diego, to a few hundred miles past El Paso.

        Here's an interesting map... https://www.usatoday.com/border-wall/us-mexico-interactive-border-map/

        "Spending five BILLION dollars is a lot of money no matter how you slice it ". I'll disagree. For the Government, it's a tiny drop in the bucket. For you and I, sure, we can't imaging even making that much money. But hey, I can't imagine making one million dollars a year either. Which is why I a $100,000 car is way out of my budget. It's also why me spending $11,000 on LEGO over the past 5 years is unthinkable to someone working two minimum wage jobs. It's also why I find it crazy that someone working two minimum wage jobs is outright buying a $700 iPhone (I paid $1.00 for my SE over two years ago and can't imagine spending $700 for a phone even though I make a lot more than minimum wage).

        It has been proven that the Democratic party is actively courting not just legal, but also illegal immigrants. How you have not learned this is beyond me. Just go look at their party websites and it is obvious. Also, members of the democratic party have been recorded at large gatherings of illegal immigrants telling them that they will support them (BTW: That's in violation of their oath of office...). Open your eyes and look for yourself. You won't believe me otherwise.

        1. [2]
          dubteedub
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          Well until you actually provide a source for, ill continue to believe you are simply pulling it out of your ass. Your claim is vaguely simillar to a comment made by Trump during his latest...

          I'll have to dig for it. I read it about two months ago. Not just on right-wing or conspiracy sites.

          Well until you actually provide a source for, ill continue to believe you are simply pulling it out of your ass.

          Your claim is vaguely simillar to a comment made by Trump during his latest announcement that was something like "some people say the wall could reduce the nation's drug problem by as much as 50%." Again, an unsourced vague claim that is typical of both Trump and his supporters.

          Did you know that there's already about a thousand miles of barriers (walls and fences) along the border? Yep, from the coast by San Diego, to a few hundred miles past El Paso.

          Yes, in fact @Deimos posted a great interactive piece on the US/Mexico border that discusses that is this very thread.

          That in no way means that it is an appropriate use of federal dollars to throw at further building a wall.

          In fact, i would say it is incredibly juvenile to shut the government down over "the wall" if there is in fact already much of one in place at border cities where it may actually be useful, wouldnt you say?

          I would argue it is a waste of resources that would be better spent elsewhere, ideally in my opinion to fix our actual decades old infrastructure that is falling apart at the seams.

          Funny how you ignored this part of my argument and went on a tangent about iPhone and legos.

          It has been proven that the Democratic party is actively courting not just legal, but also illegal immigrants.

          If its been proven then provide a source for your claims. It should be fairly easy no?

          Just go look at their party websites and it is obvious

          Please do point me to where the Democratic Party's website says they want illegal immigration.

          Also, members of the democratic party have been recorded at large gatherings of illegal immigrants telling them that they will support them

          Man, it sure is funny how you continue to provide no sources for these bombshell claims.

          Open your eyes and look for yourself. You won't believe me otherwise.

          You have no proof for your outrageous claims and the fact that you are telling me to "go look for myself" is proof that you should not be taken seriously.

          Edit: on a sidenote, I am honestly embarrassed that the OP of this thread has been tagged as "exemplary". Spouting some unsourced lartisan nonsense should not be encouraged here.

          8 votes
          1. cadadr
            Link Parent
            Persobally, I dislike the "super upvote" that is that tag. Yes it is time limited, but then bad contributors will seldom bother to even upvote, so no trouble for them. Exemplary should be what it...

            Edit: on a sidenote, I am honestly embarrassed that the OP of this thread has been tagged as "exemplary". Spouting some unsourced lartisan nonsense should not be encouraged here.

            Persobally, I dislike the "super upvote" that is that tag. Yes it is time limited, but then bad contributors will seldom bother to even upvote, so no trouble for them. Exemplary should be what it is: an anonymous thank you for a comment and a public reward to a good commenter. It should not affect sorting, IMHO.

            1 vote
    3. [3]
      cadadr
      Link Parent
      Know thy netiquette. Maybe we need a page dedicated to this in docs? Nevertheless, all caps is not emphasis, it's shouting and generally offensive, so avoiding it unless very strong emphasis is...

      Know thy netiquette. Maybe we need a page dedicated to this in docs? Nevertheless, all caps is not emphasis, it's shouting and generally offensive, so avoiding it unless very strong emphasis is needed. The comment box has a link above it called "formatting help", where you can find out about how to use italics and boldface.

      Apart from that, this is usual xenofobe rhetoric that I'm familiar from hearing it be used against Syrian refugees here in Turkey. The same bunch who wants them to fight in Syria against fundamentalist terrorists and MAD powers flee the country when they're threatened of arrest and often cannot be brave enough to post with their real names.

      Fuck all borders.

      10 votes
      1. [2]
        stromm
        Link Parent
        Yea... I'm old enough that caps was used on computer type specifically for emphasis. It's a hard habit to break. RE: (BTW, that's not yelling, that's actually how you type it, same with "by the...

        Yea... I'm old enough that caps was used on computer type specifically for emphasis. It's a hard habit to break.

        RE: (BTW, that's not yelling, that's actually how you type it, same with "by the way"...) " this is usual xenofobe rhetoric".

        Please explain where my statement even implies xenophobic rhetoric. I stated facts. Which are backed up by evidence.

        1. cadadr
          Link Parent
          Sure: Problems: No citations to back these claims anywhere in this sub-thread No citations or explanations as to why should the acceptance of immigrants, illegal or legal, should depend on who...

          Please explain where my statement even implies xenophobic rhetoric. I stated facts. Which are backed up by evidence.

          Sure:

          Politicians against the wall know that. They are against the wall because they expect the people who cross the border this way will eventually vote for their party. And they have invested in businesses who cater to those people. So they will increase their personal wealth.

          Problems:

          • No citations to back these claims anywhere in this sub-thread

          • No citations or explanations as to why should the acceptance of immigrants, illegal or legal, should depend on who they'll tend to vote should they obtain the right to

          • No explanations for why it is surprising or unacceptable or even worth pointing out that an incoming group to a country will be more fond of those who welcome them

          As for the xenophobia,

          • Declaring a group of people in search of immigration (and possibly also refuge from humane troubles like crime, hunger, poverty etc.) outright as "illegal"

          • Talking about them as a monolithic entity and as an object of some other entity (in your case, the Democrats)

          • Similarly, treating them as an object of an almost purely economical discussion

          I want to note that I did not call you xenofobic, nor implied that your comment was so. But your comment is made up of claims usually utilised by xenophobes. But it does not contain anything that demonstrates you holding xenophobic views yourself. I don't know if you are or aren't so, but the words and "facts" you use are theirs.

          7 votes
  5. guywithhair
    Link
    Disclaimer: I think the wall is just a big symbolic gesture whose practical value isn't worth its economic value. There are bigger problems than immigration in the USA, period. The whole debacle...

    Disclaimer: I think the wall is just a big symbolic gesture whose practical value isn't worth its economic value. There are bigger problems than immigration in the USA, period.

    The whole debacle is fascinating quite honestly. The thing I've found the most interesting is that (seemingly) most GOP congressmen are hardly weighing in on this besides those who are staunch Trump supporters. It seems that the GOP is in a really tough spot - they either have to continue the shutdown (as I don't think the DNC will budge without a significant win) or go against Trump.

    I really hope for the latter. I will be shocked if 4 years of this senile buffoon's governance pass without "his" party turning on him, but they haven't so far. I don't think the Democrats will concede, and many polls (sorry for no source) are showing that Trump is taking the PR hit for the shutdown. I mean, the guy did explicitly accept responsibility for it on camera after all. At this point, I think the most likely outcome may be the GOP congress compromising with Democrats to pass funding for the rest of the government with a 2/3rds majority vote. However, this means a big middle-finger to the president, effectively making EVERYTHING difficult to pass for the rest of his term. We may really be in for a long shutdown if Trump doesn't decide to accept a small sum for his "Steel Slats".

    And if this is a long shutdown, then I really have no idea what to expect. This hasn't happened before, but it seems that the signs are beginning to show. For example, a large increase in absences among TSA workers is probably the most-reported on. Many Americans live paycheck-to-paycheck; I think we'll start to see some combination of an exodus from federal jobs in the affected sectors or noteworthy protests.

    And all of this for that fucking Wall. The fact that news reporters effectively sparked this whole thing is extremely upsetting, that the president would care SO MUCH about his public image (which ironically is now much worse than it was) that he would let what are basically taunts throw the nation into a month+ long partial shutdown. Trump also campaigned on updating our infrastructure - can we argue over that instead?

    7 votes
  6. cadadr
    Link
    Every idiocracy has a "wall". For Turkey, it's evolution these days. For Italy, it's vaccines. For the Third Reich it was the Jews. These are "idiocratic baits", controversial stuff that has...

    Every idiocracy has a "wall". For Turkey, it's evolution these days. For Italy, it's vaccines. For the Third Reich it was the Jews.

    These are "idiocratic baits", controversial stuff that has indeed some value for the sides of the controversy, but their main effect is to form people into blocks of idiocy and be a wall between them and the reality which is the exploits of the idiocrats.

    At least, that's what I find to be the commonality of various idiocracies, actual or historical.

    The wall's effect was used up, but the masses need be satisfied now. We'll see if the guy will insist, or be smart and give up and go complain to the electorate that the evil Others did not let him materialise the Will of the People.

    3 votes
  7. [3]
    Devin
    Link
    Simple. Mueller. A graduate of Princeton University and New York University, Mueller served as a Marine Corps officer during the Vietnam War, receiving a Bronze Star for heroism and Purple Heart....

    Simple. Mueller.

    A graduate of Princeton University and New York University, Mueller served as a Marine Corps officer during the Vietnam War, receiving a Bronze Star for heroism and Purple Heart. He subsequently attended the University of Virginia School of Law.

    Mueller is a Republican, and was appointed or reappointed to Senate-confirmed positions by Presidents George H. W. Bush, Bill Clinton, George W. Bush, and Barack Obama.[3][4] He has spent the bulk of his career in government service, serving at times as an Assistant United States Attorney, a United States Attorney, United States Assistant Attorney General for the Criminal Division, a homicide prosecutor in Washington, D.C., Acting United States Deputy Attorney General, and Director of the FBI.

    In May 2017, Mueller was appointed by Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein as special counsel overseeing an ongoing investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 U.S. presidential election and related matters.[5]

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mueller

    The most American of American's.

    1 vote
    1. [2]
      rkcr
      Link Parent
      Did you mean to post this somewhere else? I'm legitimately confused about how this comment relates to the post.

      Did you mean to post this somewhere else? I'm legitimately confused about how this comment relates to the post.

      25 votes
      1. Devin
        Link Parent
        Looks like, but I can't remember where.

        Looks like, but I can't remember where.

        2 votes