What separates people that have positive and negative experiences with drugs? Which drugs tend to give people more positive or negative experiences?
(I don't personally have any interest in trying much of anything if anyone interprets this post as such. And yes, 'drugs' is a general/vague and loaded term and I might be asking too much in a single topic)
My opinion on drug legalization was generally summed up as pro-legalization, but really because just banning everything doesn't work and generally just understood drugs as bad.
However, I often hear people talking about drugs as giving them new experiences, enhancing sensations and generally being fun.
However, being Brazilian/Latin American, drugs here are often associated with illegal traffic, gangs, poverty, crime, among other bad things and, unlike in the US and Europe, this is generally something that is exterior to us, nor a position held overwhelmingly by social conservatives who rant about "the devil's lettuce", because it affects poor people (although, yes, that's also true in the US).
So back to the title question:
What separates people that have positive and negative experiences with drugs?
The 3 obvious differences are:
The drugs used. Drug gangs traffic stuff like cocaine and areas like [the] Cracolândia are populated by people dependent on crack, while people advocate for legalization of weed or psychedelics which are very different and "weed is no worse than alcohol" is confirmed to be truth and has been for a while. A question I have concerning this is what separates 'good' drugs from 'bad' drugs?
Preparation, since obviously you don't want to be high at work (or asking for help on a Tildes thread, that happened.) A question I have in that area is what preparations do people take before taking weed or DMT and other drugs.
Their motivations for taking drugs, since a lot of the bad examples come from people taking drugs to fill holes in their lives, while good examples are the vast majority of the time recreational (aka, for fun.)
Are there any other differences anyone wants to delineate?
I know I am giving a very unsatisfying answer here but the answer for what is a 'good' drug or 'bad' drug in my opinion is there isn't. Most drugs can be 'good' in the right situation and are 'bad' in others. Alcohol is considered a 'good' drug and yet how many lives has it ruined or nearly ruined? Cocaine is pretty widely considered to be a 'bad' drug, yet I have a friend in AA because she can't drink without self-destructing yet is fully capable of having a casual relationship with cocaine. As you mentioned, in parts of the world the tide is shifting for weed from 'bad' drug to 'good' drug. Then I will go back and counter my 'good' drug comment with the now growing question of the invisible weed addict which I'd immediately counter with a different article that points out its shortcomings. The meth ('bad' drug) epidemic in the US that ravaged both where I grew up and where I live now started by doctor's overprescribing the generally considered 'good' drugs in painkillers and people got addicted. When I broke my foot I got 1 months worth of Vicodin. I took it for 3 days. If I later take any of those 27 pills, are they 'good' because I got them legally from a doctor for a legitimate purpose, or are they 'bad' because I'm taking them for not the prescribed reason? If the reason I'm taking them is because I want to get fucked up vs because I got addicted from those 3 days vs I tweaked my back and I'm in crippling pain (but not my prescribed pain), which cases are 'good' vs 'bad' drug?
In my mind, there aren't good drugs and bad drugs. There are "Situations where it is OK for drugs to be involved" vs "Situations where it is NOT OK for drugs to be involved". Though I will say your list for separating 'good' from 'bad' drugs is very close to my situational definitions. The big obvious ones:
Drug being taken and its side effects. Are you going to feel like absolute shit tomorrow? Probably not a great work night drug. Are you alone in your apartment? Probably not the night for cocaine.
Preparation: Where are you? If you're not at home do you have a safe way to get there? Do you have someone around who is experienced and can help if something goes wrong (aka a babysitter)? As an example: I refuse to do any psychedelic that isn't with my one friend because he has lots of experience talking people out of bad trips from shrooms and acid, both while sober and tripping himself. He just has done it so many times he knows what people are feeling and knows what they need. Do you know who to contact if shit goes wrong? Do you know the source of your drugs? Did that acid you bought come from some dealer you met through a friend of a friend, or was it made by someone you know inside of the cutting-edge chem lab they work in? What prep have you done at home? What food are you going to eat? Are you going to want snacks, and if so are you taking a drug that it is safe for you to run out and buy things or should you pre-buy (always pre-buy. Always.). Who are you doing the drugs with? People you trust and know well or did the guy pissing in the urinal next to you ask if you're interested in doing a line of coke?
Motivations. You nailed it.
Mental Space: What is your mental health like right now? Are you anxious/depressed? You're going to want to avoid shrooms because you could have a terrible trip. Are you in a mental space where you will enjoy the drug you are taking, and if not consider your motivations. That said, this step is really hard and isn't a science. Sometimes you'll get your headspace wrong, sometimes you'll know the headspace you're in and the drugs will hit you differently than normal and you'll still have a shit time. Sometimes you'll make the bad decision of deciding to get drunk while depressed and you'll think it'll end terribly but it'll end up being a great time with some friends. It all depends.
Nature+Nurture: Kind of my catch-all for genetics involving mental health, addiction, conditions that might be solved by a drug (weed for pain, I think ketamine micro-dosing is being used as a treatment for severe depression?); as well as things like 'did my parents have unhealthy relationships with drugs that I have now learned from exposure'.
Culture: What do the people around you think of your drug or drugs of choice? Feelings about drugs are very different in Amsterdam than they are in Alabama.
EDIT: Wanted to add this at the end: I'm having a bit of a hard time answering because the scope of the two questions asked are very large and general. As my response states, I think 'good' and 'bad' drug and positive vs negative experiences are very very individual and will change depending on who you're with, what drug you're doing, how your feeling that day, and countless other factors. If you have any more specific questions about the topic I'm more than happy to give you my best effort at a helpful response.
I absolutely agree with the bulk of what you are saying. The reality is that humans are different and what drug 'works' for one person and does not work for another can be found in every day life quite simply if you stop to ask the question. A perfect example of this is over the counter pain medications. When you have a headache, do you take ibuprofen, acetaminophen, aspirin, naproxen, or something else? Does the same hold true if you're exceptionally sore the day after really working out or your joints are screaming at you? What about for other kinds of pain and discomfort? Do all of your friends make the same choices?
However, with that said, I would like to point out that there are absolutely ways in which we can rank the relative goods and harms of various drugs that are out there. Some drugs are poisonous in very small doses. Some drugs are retired when we find better versions for the same targeted end goal. Some drugs are more likely to cause damage to the body or brain than others, but achieve the same outcome with regards to altered perception, pain reduction, reducing or increasing biomarkers, or any other desirable drug effect. Some drugs create powerful physical dependencies when used for extended periods of time and some dependencies are harder or more dangerous to break than others. We can, and should be cognizant of what harms drugs can cause and what benefits they bring when deciding which drugs to use for different reasons. This can be done at the same time as the recognition that different people get different things out of different drugs.
I believe you are referring to opioids and not methamphetamine. There are legal amphetamines (not meth, but very similar) which are prescribed for ADHD and other issues, however, to further your narrative about good/bad.
I only replied to one part of your message before but re-reading it I realized a very very important part of all my comments here that I missed saying.
I've been talking a lot in the abstract about drugs and drug use but I want to make one thing very very clear: Age is probably one of if not the biggest factor in all of this. If you're under 25, your brain is still developing. Drugs will affect the way your brain develops and you'd be trying them when you've got a teenager brain that hasn't fully developed impulse control yet. Also, you're a kid and doing illegal things, which might carry a lighter sentence but its still not great for future prospects to have an arrest record. I'm not saying never take any drugs until after you are 25, if for no other reason than I'd be incredibly hypocritical. But when you are young the ideas of frequency and dosage are skyrocketed in terms of importance I don't think I can overstate how important it is to be careful, do your research in advance, and if you decide to try something to always err on the side of caution both in terms of dosage, frequency, and what substances you are considering taking
Good advice. I'll add that while you are young, drugs are probably not going to dogpile up on you like they do when you hit 40+. A hangover at 20 is a very, very different thing than a hangover at 40 - at least for me, they got worse, and I had to swap beer for hard liquor for light social drinking because even two light beers can send me straight into a headache now. When I was in my 20s it was pitchers of beer, I think the record was nine in one day (I was sharing with 4 others, but still). Back then I'd barely have a hangover. That was craft beer too, 9%-18% alcohol, nothing like bud light.
It may feel like you're bulletproof if you're younger, but you really aren't. Those drugs are still doing what they are going to do to you, but your sense of how much damage they are doing can be misleading. Just because you feel fine doesn't mean you are fine.
My last tip of advice is a quote a professor for one of my intro classes said every Friday: "Remember kids, if you're going to drink, drink water."
Whenever you're drinking or taking a substance, make sure you're staying hydrated. Both for health/safety, and also because a crippling dehydration headache the next morning SUUUUUUCCCCCKKKKKKSSSSSS
That helps a lot with drinking at a bar. One beer, one water, one beer, keep that cycle going and it's less apt to kick your ass, though you may as well wear a diaper you'll be heading to the bathroom so often. Pace yourself. If I go out drinking there's a high probability I'll be there from 5pm until closing time. Find the dose where you get the best buzz for the least amount of bad mojo and once you've identified that place, aim for it. I want to come out of the bar either buzzed with a ride home or sober and ready to drive, not blackout drunk. I save that level of drinking for special occasions, like once a year tops.
I think I partly enjoy the drugs for the test of willpower. You'll find out right quick if you have problems in that area - and can aim to do better next time. It's a process. The altered perceptions are enjoyable as a break from sobriety, but one should be sober the vast majority of the time. Drugs are a treat or a lifesaver, not a lifestyle.
I am referring to both, at least that is the case EDIT: TRIGGER WARNINGS FOR DISCUSSION OF SEX TRAFFICING, DEPRESSION, ADDICTION: in Southern Ohio and Kentucky where heroine leads people to meth and then meth is dirt cheap and rehabs don't have any medical tools to help with meth addiction the way they do heroine/fent. Some quotes from the source:
To get into a bit of personal issues: At some point in the not-distant-but-not-recent past I got a DUI. I was young and stupid and very lucky I didn't hurt myself or anyone else and it was the straw that forced me to reflect on my issues with drinking I had shoved down. I had to take a dui course and everyone in the room shared the story of how they got their DUI. The number of people who were in there for driving under the influence of Xanax was insane to me. This one person somehow managed to have the most insane story of staying awake for 60 hours straight by mixing Xanax for entertainment and Adderall/cocaine to stay awake and only got caught because she fell asleep at the wheel. That whole long story to get to the point of: Xanax and Adderall are also drugs that serve a generally good purpose but can be abused and become 'bad'
Oh, wow.
I have a few questions.
If good drugs and bad drugs isn't really a division that makes sense, what do people mean when they say weed is no more dangerous than alcohol?
Is there a way to figure out if someone can take any given substance well or not without just trying it? And what does this mean concerning legalization?
More whimsically, what do you think of this meme?
They may mean a variety of things but perhaps the best answer to your question is one which is clinical in nature. There was a fantastic review of drug culture and harms in the UK that came out roughly a decade ago.
This graph pops up all the time online when people are discussing the harms of drugs, as in this paper they attempted to classify common street drugs by how much harm they caused to the person and to society through a variety of measures such as the damage it does to cells, whether or not it has a physical dependency and what that entails, how much damage to property and life are caused by people on the drug, whether people addicted to the drug tend to turn to crime to support their addiction, how much of an affect the drug has on the user's family and social connections, and much more.
I think this is a big issue when having this conversation: when we discuss the danger of a drug, should it be limited to the drug itself, or the culture around it? To put it differently: should things like "do I have to interact with dangerous people and/or crime to get a substance" be used to determine if a drug is dangerous? A large part of me says 'yes' but then there is a part of my brain that says 'no because if we legalized those dangers would disappear. They aren't a feature of the drug but are a feature of the society surrounding the drug'.
I think so, but those types of danger should be categorized separately and the former should be reinforced as artificial, unfortunate and troublesome, like you've said.
A few things:
I would argue that weed is, in fact, less dangerous than alcohol, but that's not really the point you're trying to get at I don't think.
When people say weed is no more dangerous than alcohol what they really mean in my mind is "All other variables held constant, weed and alcohol have the same possibility of harming the user or those around them. Both are more recreational as the chance of getting addicted is lower and they are more socially acceptable, but they are in fact dangerous. Taking either one if you get behind the wheel you are driving impaired and are risking the lives of yourself and everyone nearby the roads you're driving on.
Just because I don't think there are good or bad drugs doesn't mean other people don't. I generally have a very pro-decriminalization and some-legalization mindset. Generally, I think the problems with many common drugs come down to the user and the situation, not the drug. We'll put a big ol' asterisk on that because there are so many exceptions to that statement. Rambling example: If you are consuming a drug that is illegal, you almost guaranteed had to buy it from a source where you don't know every step in the supply chain. It is hard, especially for a layman who doesn't know better, to test what you buy to know it isn't laced with something else. Legalization allows for users to buy from a certified source where you know what you are getting is "safe", or at least is what you want to buy. Example: When my dad was growing up weed was illegal and he would regularly buy weed and find out after he smoked it that it was laced with PCP or speed, and came real close to buying synthetic weed. Now, he has a medical card and buys from a dispensary and knows the product he is getting isn't going to be laced with shit that is dangerous or that he doesn't want. Some of this comes down to the drug you are using, but in general unless you're buying from someone who makes the drug themselves and you trust them, you have no way to know for sure what you are buying is purely what you wanted. Does that make the drug more dangerous/bad because buying it illegally is dangerous? Yeah. Do I think that makes a drug itself bad? No, because it isn't the fault of the drug that people aren't able to safely buy it. That's an unregulated market problem.
You can make well-informed and educated guesses that'll probably get pretty close to the right answer, but you'll never be able to know for sure unless you try them (with some exceptions). Like we can say if you try heroine you're going to be addicted and so it is bad, but with things like shrooms, weed, alcohol, caffeine it is not as cut-and-dry. But to get back to the question, if you basically take all my situational things and generalize them to longer timespans I think you get a good idea of how a person would react on a drug. My personal philosophy for myself and when I'm talking to friends about this is to always err on the side of caution and not take a substance if you've got concerns. There are a number of drugs I really, really want to try but I know I can't. Some because I don't have a source I'd call safe, some because I don't think I have the right mentality for it, some because I know I have a highly addictive personality and I don't want to risk it, and then I want to try heroine because I need to know what that experience is like but I refuse to do it until I am terminally ill so I don't ruin my life.
I'm not sure. I honestly haven't given it much thought because I don't know that legalization is the right step for many substances and in many places. I think more than anything else the biggest struggle legalization is going to face is around addiction. Too many people still think that addiction is a moral failing and not a medical issue, and across both groups there are large sections of people that still think prison is the place for drug-related crimes and not rehab. For legalization to continue happening it'll require a shift in mindset of the general public to thinking that situations and abuse of a drug bad, not inherently the drug itself, that addicts need compassion and support not punishment, and that external factor such as poverty also affect drug use vs drug abuse.
Two things you didn't mention in the "obvious differences" section, that are unfortunately largely outside people's control, and I think play a huge role in how they handle drugs, is genetics and psychological makeup. Some people just seem to be more susceptible to addiction, and some people also seem unable to handle psychedelic experiences (i.e. divergences from normal modes of thought/feelings), as well as others do. And IMO no drugs are totally immune to causing either of those issues, since even drugs that aren't physiologically addicting can still be psychologically addicting (esp when self-medicating, used as a coping mechanism, etc.)... and even some of the drugs I have never had a single bad experience on, I personally know some people who have had absolutely terrifying and terrible experiences with.
As for which drugs I personally have had the "best" experiences with, those would be ecstasy, ketamine, LSD, and mushrooms. Although even that statement needs to come with caveats, since I can't/won't touch any of the "hard" drugs anymore due to developing a pretty severe addiction to some of them (K and meth mostly) in my teens, and having had to fight a hard battle to finally free myself of them.
I have been "sober" for 20+ years now, but I definitely have to put that in air quotes because I still occasionally do mushrooms, regularly smoke pot, and drink alcohol. So my version of "sober" is highly relative... which some might even call a flimsy excuse that I use so that I can justify to myself my continued use of "soft" drugs. ;)
And BTW, the reason I didn't include pot in the "best" list is because it's historically been a real crapshoot for me; Sometimes it makes me feel relaxed but gluttonous, sometimes it amps me up and gets me motivated to do things (like clean my apt), and sometimes it makes me ultra-paranoid and super anxious. However, lately (thanks to the legalization in Canada/Ontario) I have been getting much more consistent and predictable results when I smoke pot though. Low THC + High CBD stuff seems to give me most of the good without much of the bad.
The simple truth - you won't know how a drug affects you personally until you take it. There are no universals here, our knowledge of medicine and science on this topic are still very much in the realm of 'practice' and based on observations of large groups of people. There's no method to measure an individual person and derive how they will experience any given drug. It's all generalizations. Every drug out there has the potential to be a nightmare for someone - even cannabis can trigger latent schizophrenia.
The distinction between a legal drug and an illegal drug is an artificial one. Don't let that enter into your thinking - hold the same suspicion of any legal or prescription drug that you would for the worst illegal drugs. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that because it came from a doctor or a pharmacy that it can't fuck you up. It certainly can - some people have negative reactions to simple aspirin. For myself, I hate ibuprofen because it makes my heart pound like crazy and raises my blood pressure - I feel awful if I take it. Acetaminophen and aspirin are just fine for me, though.
There are some basic guidelines one can follow to avoid trouble. Frankly this is the sort of thing that programs like D.A.R.E. should be teaching rather than the 'drugs are bad' mantra.
That's served me well as a guideline for drug use. I'd also add don't take the drugs, especially painkillers, unless you need them. I had a lipoma removed and they gave me an oxy prescription. Took one dose, hated it (pure brain fog, ugh) and the pain wasn't bad to begin with so I just skipped the painkillers. I can do without the addiction risk for a little itchy/hot cut.
If you go out drinking, do the hangover and stop busting your liver with painkillers. You're better off with a multivitamin (it's B & K you're depleting with alcohol) and water or gatorade before bed than a liver doing double duty. Space out your drinking nights - one a week is a lot less likely to damage you than three times a week, and you don't need to be blackout drunk to enjoy yourself. This applies to more than alcohol, too. The liver has to clean up the mess in your blood, and making it do double or triple duty and work three day straight shifts is going to get you into trouble.
If you actually need a drug, that's between you and your doctors, and you're a fool for not heeding their advice - though there's no harm in second opinions. If you're taking the drug daily/weekly, you'd damn sure better be aware of any interactions it has with other recreational drugs you may take. A lot of people make the mistake of crossing prescriptions with alcohol or psychedelics or painkillers and end up dead. Tell your doctor if you take other legal or illegal drugs - they aren't the police and they need to know if they are giving you prescriptions.
Be extra suspicious of drugs that have a high level of addiction potential, legal or otherwise. I give these a hard pass, period.
I can't speak to the efficacy of this chart, so I'm suspicious of it (and you should share that suspicion for non-medical online resources) but I'm going to link it just to give you some idea of the kinds of interactions that arise when you combine multiple drugs. Even this chart is dangerous because it implies you can get away with certain combinations without taking your own personal biology into consideration. It's not a license to experiment, it's a map of death risks.
Picking up rando drugs at a party is also a risk. You don't know what it is, it's not like LSD comes labeled from a factory. Pedigree matters. One could grow cannabis in toxic soil and end up smoking toxic compounds, for example. Plants and shrooms absorb elements of their environments. Stay away from needles - any drug that requires a needle better be administered in a hospital by a nurse or a doctor. It's a hassle/risk you don't need. Don't take random pills.
Obviously I'm not a doctor - so take this (and any other) advice with a grain of salt.
In the broadest terms, definitely agree. Benzos and alcohol, for example, seems about as bad as weed and alcohol, but one of those combos can kill you. If I may suggest a similar rule - decide on dose before you dose. Don't be inebriated trying to eyeball your ketamine because you can't use the scale. Just do more next time if you missed your target. Don't decide that you're going to combine two substances under the influence of one of them.
Just gonna add to this: if you're getting it at a party, you probably aren't gonna go to the back room and break out your Erlich's reagent. Test your drugs, for real. It's important to know what you're getting hasn't been adulterated or replaced with something with a different risk profile. BunkPolice (no affiliation) is one site that sells test kits. Legal to buy (in the US, and most countries, I think), and helps you know what you're putting in your body.
I wrote a bunch of stuff, but I'm not actually sure if it helps answer your questions. I don't know if you were looking for personal experiences or not, but I chose not to include any of mine and instead tried to explore what I thought about your questions.
"What separates positive or negative experiences" or "What separates good or bad" type questions including topics of legalization, tend to fall under ethics/moral philosophy. Unfortunately, I am definitely not an expert, so I will try to refrain from acting like one.
Wikipedia's page for drugs separates the article into sections for medication, spiritual and religious use, smart drugs and designer drugs, and recreational drugs. I want to say drug abuse/misuse might be defined as when a drug intended for medical, spiritual/religious use, or smart drug/nootropic is:
Defining it in this way thus ignores which specific drugs (e.g. caffeine, steroids, cocaine, pain medications, etc.) might be good/bad and instead focuses on how they are used. However, this also reveals problems like who decides what a drug is used for and what the heck does more harm than good really mean (a form of the trolley problem)? I'm not exactly sure how addiction is measured, but I feel like that or how much of a dependence is formed along with how much physical/psychological harm is done plays a large role in whether someone's experience with a drug is negative. Because each person's biology is different and including differences in their culture, these types of questions are harder to answer, which is why the drinking age in various countries is not the same (among other reasons).
Regarding recreational drugs, I discovered this Wikipedia article that covers some guidelines on usage, but even this might be highly contested.
I think two indicators for when a drug falls into the negative category might be when it is actively interfering with someone's responsibilities and second, slightly harder to define, is when a person feels they require a drug to continue functioning but probably should not be using it.
Your comment made me think of another question around
goodandbadfor terms with drugs, specifically this quote:Who decides if an experience is positive or negative? Me? My Doctor? My friends and family? My community? Society at large? If I get hammered and have a great night but at the bar I was at I took a shit on the floor, was that positive or negative? From my perspective I had a great night and so it was positive, but for everyone who had to deal with my poop on the floor it was certainly negative. Does my ruining other people's night make the experience positive or negative, and does that answer change if I don't have any memory of the night or my actions? Or alternatively: If I am an alcoholic and don't see anything wrong with my actions but they impact those around me negatively, is it a positive or negative experience with drugs?
I have my own answers to these questions, and I feel pretty confident if we did a survey the results wouldn't be shocking (though I guess that's what everyone says before shocking results, don't they?). Still, I think the idea of who's perspective we are looking from when we ask if something is 'good' or 'bad' is important.
I mean really at the end of the day all this eventually boils down to arguments of ethics and morality and the answers will always be a gray area and "it depends".
I don't know much about it, but Scott Alexander posted an interesting article about amphetamines. He is a psychiatrist who prescribes them as part of his job.