13 votes

Among the three major operating systems, which one cares the most about their user's privacy?

Here are my views on this:

  • Windows: The Windows attitude towards privacy isn't good with their telemetry and other data collection increasing gradually from 8 to 10 to 11. In fact, most geeks across the support forums think that 7 is probably the safest and most privacy friendly Windows version but MS is doing everything it can to ensure that newer software doesn't support 7 and it just goes into obsolescence.

    The "default" state in which a W10/11 laptop comes today is so privacy unfriendly that it sends all kinds of data like contacts, location, etc. to Microsoft and their "trusted partners". You can't turn off this data unless you've visited power user forums and know exactly where to find those settings, and basic telemetry still won't be disabled of course.

    As ironic and unintuitive as it sounds, Microsoft Windows was probably much better in privacy department during the bad old days of Gates and Ballmer compared to the good "open source and geek friendly" days of Satya Nadella!

  • Mac: Apple systems should ideally be privacy friendly considering the amount of premium they charge to their products and services. But how well does that work in practice? I've never used an Apple product but those who use them seem to have the impression that they're no good in this department compared to others.
    Logic tells me that a more capitalist devil should be no different than the less capitalist one, they're probably all the same when it comes to throwing user's privacy in the bin!

  • Linux: Linux used to be the holy grail of users who cared about privacy many years ago but does that still hold good today? Ubuntu was also in some data collection controversy or other many times in past, but how are the state of things today? And what about the derivative distros, are they good too?

7 comments

  1. [6]
    knocklessmonster
    (edited )
    Link
    The Linux community in general cares about preserving your privacy. Ubuntu did some stuff like enabling Amazon references you need to opt out of, but it was easy to disable and remove, and to my...
    • Exemplary

    Linux used to be the holy grail of users who cared about privacy many years ago but does that still hold good today?

    The Linux community in general cares about preserving your privacy. Ubuntu did some stuff like enabling Amazon references you need to opt out of, but it was easy to disable and remove, and to my knowledge don't do any shady stuff like that in their distribution anymore. GNU/Linux is an open ecosystem so you can always just build your own secure OS, unless you also find a project that you can trust to do it for you. However, distributions based on Ubuntu that aren't flavours also cut out a lot of Ubuntu's specific stuff, like Mint, which is basically newer Debian every release. The worst thing you'll probably find in Ubuntu based distros is "oopsie," which is used to report issues to the dev team, but doesn't do anything unless you tell it to.

    Most distros simply don't care because it's not their thing, they package open source and requested software for users, that's all. Arch, NixOS, Debian (and non-corporate derivatives), Slackware, all just sort of do their thing packaging software for you to use, so just choose software from developers you trust, and a distribution you trust to package it. There's also the BSDs which, like the other projects I mentioned that don't have the interest or infrastructure for user tracking and are harder to target for obscurity reasons.

    You could even trust the RHEL clones, and even RHEL itself, since they don't have any invested interest in doing anything with your data. But, to this point, Ubuntu doesn't collect any user data that isn't volunteered.

    I think if you care about privacy as much as you claim to, you should just build your own OS up from a minimalist base. Avoid corporate-backed distros like OpenSUSE, Ubuntu and Fedora, and you'll be 100% fine unless you choose to install something, most likely a web browser or some other binary program, that tracks you.

    Microsoft is transparent about their data use but don't have the headlines backing them like Apple used to. If you go in either corporate direction you're trusting an entity with your data, and if any of this is a concern, I would avoid MacOS and Windows. Apple and Microsoft do have every reason to protect your data, since the last thing they want is a class action lawsuit.

    12 votes
    1. vord
      Link Parent
      TBH I think Microsoft's transparency is mostly just a function of having a legal department. They use more or less the same exact wordings as Google. At the end of the day, they gather a massive...

      TBH I think Microsoft's transparency is mostly just a function of having a legal department.

      They use more or less the same exact wordings as Google. At the end of the day, they gather a massive amount of telemetry that can be distributed to whomever they want. Especially disturbing for employees...your employer can get fairly detailed reports of how you use Microsoft products they provide. If that's not chilling I don't know what is.

      I'll believe any corporation's privacy policies substantially more when all telemetry and data collection is opt-in, rather than opt out.

      4 votes
    2. [3]
      noble_pleb
      Link Parent
      Thanks for your insights. I do care a lot about privacy but I'm also pragmatic and know the limitations of how deep one can get into technology. Building your own OS from scratch requires sound...

      Thanks for your insights. I do care a lot about privacy but I'm also pragmatic and know the limitations of how deep one can get into technology. Building your own OS from scratch requires sound knowledge of computing internals like disk partitioning and fragmenting, bootstrapping a program or OS, memory management, etc. and while I've studied these concepts during my college days, never practically done anything beyond little experiments. I've never even installed Arch Linux yet after looking at its lengthy process!

      A Windows OS is fine with me, I started my career with a computer course that taught Foxpro 2.6 running on a Windows 3.11 PC! It's just that the world has changed a lot today and these tech companies have become way more aware about data collection than we have become aware about personal data privacy and security!

      1 vote
      1. 0d_billie
        Link Parent
        It's honestly come a long way, and it's very easy to use. I have an Arch install that I have been running for 4 years at this point and it's rock solid. The learning curve is relatively steep, but...

        I've never even installed Arch Linux yet after looking at its lengthy process!

        It's honestly come a long way, and it's very easy to use. I have an Arch install that I have been running for 4 years at this point and it's rock solid. The learning curve is relatively steep, but their documentation is excellent, and the forums are also very good. I'd recommend spinning it up in a VM if you're at all curious to give it a try, as it might surprise you just how quick and easy it is to get off the ground with what you want :)

        2 votes
      2. knocklessmonster
        Link Parent
        Arch is only long because you do what every other OS automates, but they have an installer as well. There are pre-configured Arch-based distros, and even the corporate backed distros (Ubuntu, Red...

        Arch is only long because you do what every other OS automates, but they have an installer as well. There are pre-configured Arch-based distros, and even the corporate backed distros (Ubuntu, Red Hat, Fedora, SuSE) only collect enough data for bug reports, and you have to approve any send. Debian is pretty easy to use, as well, wirh graphical installers available

        For the core concern, Your data is less likely to escape with any major Linux distro than it is with Windows or MacOS, but Microsoft and Apple don't just give your data to the government or other vendors when asked, they at least wait for due process (a subpoena, usually, after Apple's legal tests, but these are huge cases).

        If you're truly concerned. to my knowledge I have never received third-party spam from any Microsoft accounts, and even if you use MS seevices unsubscribing from their marketing is easily done. I've given my work email to a few high-profile vendors who seemed to send it to other orgs, for example, but I wouldn't worry about what MS does with your data. Nobody has ever been reported for even illegal data without somebody having hardware access to the computer, and if you aren't doing that stuff, you're fine, they only want telemetry for marketing purposes. That's not great, either.

        2 votes
    3. acupofcoffee
      Link Parent
      One thing I always consider, and I give kudos to Apple for being right, is they fought against the US Government wanting a backdoor into their products... AND THEY WON. I'm not saying they are...

      One thing I always consider, and I give kudos to Apple for being right, is they fought against the US Government wanting a backdoor into their products... AND THEY WON.

      I'm not saying they are perfect, but we already know that Windows has these backdoors. This at least elevates MacOS in my mind in terms of security of your data. Apple fought the good fight on that one.

  2. bhrgunatha
    Link
    Linux: I think some clarity on terminology will help. I'm not being pedantic, confrontational or political, I'm just trying to provide some clarity. Linux is an operating system (OS) kernel that...

    Linux:


    I think some clarity on terminology will help. I'm not being pedantic, confrontational or political, I'm just trying to provide some clarity.

    Linux is an operating system (OS) kernel that provides services for interacting with hardware but it's difficult to use only those services productively.

    An OS generally refers to the kernel plus additional software that makes it easier to use the kernel's services. Even then a basic OS made from a Linux kernel is not very user friendly.

    Over time, many projects were created to bundle even more additional software together to make it far easier to run, interact and see the results of programs.

    Such a project is usually called a Distribution.

    Ubuntu is one distribution (and probably the most well-known and popular). Ubuntu itself is derived from another distribution called Debian. They are separate projects and both choose what software and applications to bundle along with how they are all initially configured.


    To give my opinion about privacy using Linux.

    As you said Ubuntu made some decisions about the software that gets installed and runs automatically that caused people to worry about privacy. I think most would say that Debian is more on the careful side of privacy than Ubuntu.

    Ubuntu became very popular and a whole myriad of distributions were made based on Ubuntu - each one making its own decisions about the software installation and configuration.

    There are also lots of other Linux based OS/distributions that make radically different choices of software and configurations. The point is you can choose and research which distribution matches you desire and needs but it often takes more work and dedication than Debian or Ubuntu. There's no magic bullet - you'd have to investigate and research each one to be certain about the privacy you consider important.

    11 votes