I'm so annoyed at our dumb law that I just wrote a letter to my MP. I hope some people feel strongly enough to do the same and send letters of their own. https://www.theyworkforyou.com/
I'm so annoyed at our dumb law that I just wrote a letter to my MP. I hope some people feel strongly enough to do the same and send letters of their own.
Probably worth pointing out that it's only been pulled for new users in the UK and current UK users have an undefined time to disable it. Considering their response in the article, I don't think...
Probably worth pointing out that it's only been pulled for new users in the UK and current UK users have an undefined time to disable it. Considering their response in the article, I don't think Apple has any plans to eliminate it for everyone else at this time.
It’s also worth pointing out that this doesn’t satisfy the UK law. I am not a lawyer, and I haven’t read the text of the law, but I read and listen to what I think are reputable sources. The UK...
It’s also worth pointing out that this doesn’t satisfy the UK law. I am not a lawyer, and I haven’t read the text of the law, but I read and listen to what I think are reputable sources. The UK law apparently requires Apple to build a backdoor for UK law enforcement for all users worldwide. Based on the current law, the only way for Apple to satisfy the law would be to exit the UK market so they no longer have jurisdiction. Absolutely wild.
I was deactivated last night. Very disappointed in this. Which leads me to an ask. I feel strongly about privacy, and would probably prefer criminals have access to my data than the idiots in...
I was deactivated last night. Very disappointed in this.
Which leads me to an ask. I feel strongly about privacy, and would probably prefer criminals have access to my data than the idiots in government in the UK, but I’d prefer to keep it to myself thank-you-very-much-indeed.
One of the reasons I was in team Apple was their lesser of the evils standing compared to the likes of Google and Microsoft. Now I can’t rely on E2EE for my data with Apple, I’m looking for alternatives. Does anyone have any experience with AOSP / Linux phones and their suitability for daily driving? I am willing to give up some flexibility in favour of privacy, but need something that can function reliably as I use my phone a lot…
As for ASOP, if you have a device they support, GrapheneOS works wonderfully. Banking apps, etc. are all fine. I can use it as just a normal everyday phone. There is/has been some controversy...
As for ASOP, if you have a device they support, GrapheneOS works wonderfully. Banking apps, etc. are all fine. I can use it as just a normal everyday phone.
There is/has been some controversy around the main developer. The person has been very anti-social and offended many peers. My interpretation is that he is suffering from some kind of mental illness, but that is just me responding to some things I read on the internet. He stepped down as lead developer in 2023. As a user, this has never affected me, but I can understand if other people have issues with that.
Yeah I'm sticking with Graphene. Don't know where I'd go if that stopped. Probably struggle with some kind of Linux phone. Brodie showed one off in a recent video that didn't look /too/ terrible.
Yeah I'm sticking with Graphene. Don't know where I'd go if that stopped.
Probably struggle with some kind of Linux phone. Brodie showed one off in a recent video that didn't look /too/ terrible.
Unfortunately, there are no linux phones on the market that are sutable for daily driving. (trust me, Ive tried several). Linux phones are where linux in general was in the late 90's/early 2000's....
Unfortunately, there are no linux phones on the market that are sutable for daily driving. (trust me, Ive tried several). Linux phones are where linux in general was in the late 90's/early 2000's. Many drivers dont work properly, power management is awful, Phone calls and SMS work... most of the time, and there is no acess to to apps like signal. (and even if there was, apps dont run when the device is asleep, meaning you wouldnt get calls if your phone was in your pocket) (that last one makes linux phones less private than say, a google phone.)
Unfortunately, Apple is still probably the most private option. If you live in the UK, you may want to do whatever you can to disable iCloud.
Do you have the ability to move your Apple account out of the UK? If you don’t pay for subscriptions, and don’t need to purchase anything else, you should be able to do it without too much hassle....
Do you have the ability to move your Apple account out of the UK? If you don’t pay for subscriptions, and don’t need to purchase anything else, you should be able to do it without too much hassle. If you do, you need a billing address and payment method for the country you want to move it to. But if you can manage that, you should be able to reactivate advanced data protection for your account.
Key reason I was using it was because it satisfied my privacy requirements whilst taking almost no effort. If I’m going to have to fix it / fudge it / roll my own, I’d rather spend the energy...
Key reason I was using it was because it satisfied my privacy requirements whilst taking almost no effort. If I’m going to have to fix it / fudge it / roll my own, I’d rather spend the energy required to move my iCloud account to another country to build a permanent solution.
No, but the key feature that I get from ADP is the knowledge that all of my iCloud account data is E2EE. If that is stripped away, you need to find a way to store backups, photos, etc using E2EE....
No, but the key feature that I get from ADP is the knowledge that all of my iCloud account data is E2EE. If that is stripped away, you need to find a way to store backups, photos, etc using E2EE. This is made harder in the Apple ecosystem as there is no obvious way to back up the devices other than to use iCloud or a cable. I suspect this would be easier to achieve with Android, and believe some of the more privacy centred offerings such as GrapheneOS include solutions by default. I don’t know at this point how reliable they are, but that’s for future me to find out!
The real benefit you get from using de-googled AOSP is the de-googling. You get the flexibility of Android, the ability to roll your own solutions where necessary, and don’t have to accept Google as a solution for privacy.
I don’t like what Apple have done, but I applaud them for taking the stand. It will make my life more complicated as I will likely switch away from Apple and have to run some of my own services now, but that’s been something I’ve long been considering anyway!
What's with the UK's general tendency towards the nanny state? I don't know why, but it always seems that among western countries, the UK is the one that always tends towards pervasive...
What's with the UK's general tendency towards the nanny state? I don't know why, but it always seems that among western countries, the UK is the one that always tends towards pervasive surveillance, monitoring of its citizens, and policing what they do within their own private lives.
I'm speaking as an outsider from the US which has had its own share of privacy issues, but from the notorious CCTV programs, TV detector vans, banning of encryption and so on, what's up with that? A lot of those measures would have pretty widespread bipartisan opposition. One of the few things most liberals and conservatives agree on in the US is that pervasive government surveillance into everyone is too invasive, which is why the revelations of Edward Snowden were so shocking.
It seems like that wouldn't have been nearly as big of a deal in the UK though. Is it a cultural thing? Or a quirk of how the government works? Something else?
I understand why, but it's kind of sad to see Apple trying to appease this absolute nonsense. In a way I hope that the UK pushes harder for their original global goal just because I doubt Apple...
I understand why, but it's kind of sad to see Apple trying to appease this absolute nonsense. In a way I hope that the UK pushes harder for their original global goal just because I doubt Apple would cave to that and the fallout would be interesting.
I don't really love that they wield this much power, but I imagine that if Apple sent a push notification to all Apple devices in the UK that read something like "Due to [law] Apple can no longer...
I don't really love that they wield this much power, but I imagine that if Apple sent a push notification to all Apple devices in the UK that read something like "Due to [law] Apple can no longer service the UK market. All Apple devices and services will cease to function effective [date]." then the law would probably die within a week.
So yes, pulling out of the market. But I'm not sure if removing iCloud in UK would be enough. They may need to fully exit jurisdiction. But I also doubt that would actually happen because I think that in the real world Apple has far more leverage than UK legislators do.
If it comes down to it, the UK population is marginal in the scheme of all Apple users. So withdrawing from the market, or at least threatening to, seems like the best move if other attempts to...
If it comes down to it, the UK population is marginal in the scheme of all Apple users. So withdrawing from the market, or at least threatening to, seems like the best move if other attempts to influence the government fail. Especially since the UK is determined to compromise non-residents' accounts.
They should also immediately ban all members of parliament for terms of service violations. I'm sure conspiring to compromise the security of other users' private data is covered by their abuse policies.
Apple wouldn’t do it, but theoretically swapping out the iCloud backend for something self-hosted could skirt around this situation, no? I don’t think there’s ever a situation where there’s no...
Apple wouldn’t do it, but theoretically swapping out the iCloud backend for something self-hosted could skirt around this situation, no?
I don’t think there’s ever a situation where there’s no solution, it’s just that the solution(s) aren’t viewed favorably enough by a or multiple stakeholders. Which is fair and fine! But then we may also be allowed to criticize Apple for not making their defense point more publicly, more loudly.
I agree that I wish they would fight it in court or something but since they aren’t, I think disabling it and being completely transparent with users that their data is not encrypted anymore is...
I agree that I wish they would fight it in court or something but since they aren’t, I think disabling it and being completely transparent with users that their data is not encrypted anymore is the right way to go
Edit: Also, it’s entirely possible they are fighting it but are not allowed to mention it. Remember that they aren’t even allowed to mention that they received such a request from the UK government and the process for appeals could be completely secret. If you read their statement, it makes no mention of the reason why they are disabling the feature. We only know because of a leak.
I'm pretty sure this is exactly what's happening. True appeasement would be creating the backdoor. Openly telling users in the UK they are unable to offer a service is saying, "we refuse to create...
I'm pretty sure this is exactly what's happening. True appeasement would be creating the backdoor. Openly telling users in the UK they are unable to offer a service is saying, "we refuse to create the back door."
I'm so annoyed at our dumb law that I just wrote a letter to my MP. I hope some people feel strongly enough to do the same and send letters of their own.
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/
I did. And some Lords. 'scuse me, Milord (doffs hat), this seems like a jolly rotten idea. Daft system.
Probably worth pointing out that it's only been pulled for new users in the UK and current UK users have an undefined time to disable it. Considering their response in the article, I don't think Apple has any plans to eliminate it for everyone else at this time.
It’s also worth pointing out that this doesn’t satisfy the UK law. I am not a lawyer, and I haven’t read the text of the law, but I read and listen to what I think are reputable sources. The UK law apparently requires Apple to build a backdoor for UK law enforcement for all users worldwide. Based on the current law, the only way for Apple to satisfy the law would be to exit the UK market so they no longer have jurisdiction. Absolutely wild.
I was deactivated last night. Very disappointed in this.
Which leads me to an ask. I feel strongly about privacy, and would probably prefer criminals have access to my data than the idiots in government in the UK, but I’d prefer to keep it to myself thank-you-very-much-indeed.
One of the reasons I was in team Apple was their lesser of the evils standing compared to the likes of Google and Microsoft. Now I can’t rely on E2EE for my data with Apple, I’m looking for alternatives. Does anyone have any experience with AOSP / Linux phones and their suitability for daily driving? I am willing to give up some flexibility in favour of privacy, but need something that can function reliably as I use my phone a lot…
As for ASOP, if you have a device they support, GrapheneOS works wonderfully. Banking apps, etc. are all fine. I can use it as just a normal everyday phone.
There is/has been some controversy around the main developer. The person has been very anti-social and offended many peers. My interpretation is that he is suffering from some kind of mental illness, but that is just me responding to some things I read on the internet. He stepped down as lead developer in 2023. As a user, this has never affected me, but I can understand if other people have issues with that.
Yeah I'm sticking with Graphene. Don't know where I'd go if that stopped.
Probably struggle with some kind of Linux phone. Brodie showed one off in a recent video that didn't look /too/ terrible.
Thanks, I’ll give it a look. I’ve heard it spoken about before in a vaguely negative way but I can’t remember why!
Unfortunately, there are no linux phones on the market that are sutable for daily driving. (trust me, Ive tried several). Linux phones are where linux in general was in the late 90's/early 2000's. Many drivers dont work properly, power management is awful, Phone calls and SMS work... most of the time, and there is no acess to to apps like signal. (and even if there was, apps dont run when the device is asleep, meaning you wouldnt get calls if your phone was in your pocket) (that last one makes linux phones less private than say, a google phone.)
Unfortunately, Apple is still probably the most private option. If you live in the UK, you may want to do whatever you can to disable iCloud.
Do you have the ability to move your Apple account out of the UK? If you don’t pay for subscriptions, and don’t need to purchase anything else, you should be able to do it without too much hassle. If you do, you need a billing address and payment method for the country you want to move it to. But if you can manage that, you should be able to reactivate advanced data protection for your account.
Key reason I was using it was because it satisfied my privacy requirements whilst taking almost no effort. If I’m going to have to fix it / fudge it / roll my own, I’d rather spend the energy required to move my iCloud account to another country to build a permanent solution.
Do AOSP solutions have ways to bake in E2EE at the OS level the same way ADP did?
No, but the key feature that I get from ADP is the knowledge that all of my iCloud account data is E2EE. If that is stripped away, you need to find a way to store backups, photos, etc using E2EE. This is made harder in the Apple ecosystem as there is no obvious way to back up the devices other than to use iCloud or a cable. I suspect this would be easier to achieve with Android, and believe some of the more privacy centred offerings such as GrapheneOS include solutions by default. I don’t know at this point how reliable they are, but that’s for future me to find out!
The real benefit you get from using de-googled AOSP is the de-googling. You get the flexibility of Android, the ability to roll your own solutions where necessary, and don’t have to accept Google as a solution for privacy.
I don’t like what Apple have done, but I applaud them for taking the stand. It will make my life more complicated as I will likely switch away from Apple and have to run some of my own services now, but that’s been something I’ve long been considering anyway!
What's with the UK's general tendency towards the nanny state? I don't know why, but it always seems that among western countries, the UK is the one that always tends towards pervasive surveillance, monitoring of its citizens, and policing what they do within their own private lives.
I'm speaking as an outsider from the US which has had its own share of privacy issues, but from the notorious CCTV programs, TV detector vans, banning of encryption and so on, what's up with that? A lot of those measures would have pretty widespread bipartisan opposition. One of the few things most liberals and conservatives agree on in the US is that pervasive government surveillance into everyone is too invasive, which is why the revelations of Edward Snowden were so shocking.
It seems like that wouldn't have been nearly as big of a deal in the UK though. Is it a cultural thing? Or a quirk of how the government works? Something else?
I understand why, but it's kind of sad to see Apple trying to appease this absolute nonsense. In a way I hope that the UK pushes harder for their original global goal just because I doubt Apple would cave to that and the fallout would be interesting.
What would non-appeasement look like? Just yank all iCloud services from the UK?
I don't really love that they wield this much power, but I imagine that if Apple sent a push notification to all Apple devices in the UK that read something like "Due to [law] Apple can no longer service the UK market. All Apple devices and services will cease to function effective [date]." then the law would probably die within a week.
So yes, pulling out of the market. But I'm not sure if removing iCloud in UK would be enough. They may need to fully exit jurisdiction. But I also doubt that would actually happen because I think that in the real world Apple has far more leverage than UK legislators do.
If it comes down to it, the UK population is marginal in the scheme of all Apple users. So withdrawing from the market, or at least threatening to, seems like the best move if other attempts to influence the government fail. Especially since the UK is determined to compromise non-residents' accounts.
They should also immediately ban all members of parliament for terms of service violations. I'm sure conspiring to compromise the security of other users' private data is covered by their abuse policies.
Apple wouldn’t do it, but theoretically swapping out the iCloud backend for something self-hosted could skirt around this situation, no?
I don’t think there’s ever a situation where there’s no solution, it’s just that the solution(s) aren’t viewed favorably enough by a or multiple stakeholders. Which is fair and fine! But then we may also be allowed to criticize Apple for not making their defense point more publicly, more loudly.
I agree that I wish they would fight it in court or something but since they aren’t, I think disabling it and being completely transparent with users that their data is not encrypted anymore is the right way to go
Edit: Also, it’s entirely possible they are fighting it but are not allowed to mention it. Remember that they aren’t even allowed to mention that they received such a request from the UK government and the process for appeals could be completely secret. If you read their statement, it makes no mention of the reason why they are disabling the feature. We only know because of a leak.
I'm pretty sure this is exactly what's happening. True appeasement would be creating the backdoor. Openly telling users in the UK they are unable to offer a service is saying, "we refuse to create the back door."
Yep. And it’s possible we won’t even know the outcome unless one day they put out a press release saying the feature is available again.