I, again, gave Firefox a try on my iPhone but it didn't stick and I'm back to Safari. Swiping the address bar to easily switch between tabs is something I regularly use. Also, there's little...
I, again, gave Firefox a try on my iPhone but it didn't stick and I'm back to Safari.
Swiping the address bar to easily switch between tabs is something I regularly use.
Also, there's little upside to switch to Firefox as all web browsing on an iOS device is shitty regardless of the browser as there's no ad blocking extensions available.
Since the introduction of browser choice screens in 2024, Firefox's daily active users on iOS have grown by 99% in Germany and 111% in France, showing that when users are given a real choice, many move away from default browsers.
A ~100% increase seems to be very impressive but it should be taken in perspective of the market share of Firefox. I can't find any data for iOS specific but the market share for mobile browsers for Firefox is ~0.5%.
I don't really get the focus on market share for browsers.
I don't care what anybody else is using, I only care about my browser.
This has been a "new idea" since 2022 https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/ideas/swipe-between-open-tabs-on-ios/idi-p/2088 I guess the development for iOS is lacking as there's less interest in a...
Until these new DMA rules Firefox has been forbidden by Apple from really being anything except a reskin of Safari. Due to these restrictions I don't think there was a lot of appetite to really...
Until these new DMA rules Firefox has been forbidden by Apple from really being anything except a reskin of Safari. Due to these restrictions I don't think there was a lot of appetite to really bother much with the iOS code base. Maybe now, when they can switch to Gecko and it be a real distinct product, they'll support it better.
For anyone seeking a short version of why: Apple has forbidden code interpreters inside apps, except for what Apple provided. Since a browser kind of needs to support JS this meant using the provided WebKit engine was the only way to make a browser at all.
Most users don't pick a browser based on engine, unless that engine is bad at rendering popular sites. They pick a browser based on UI/UX before they'll pick based on engine.
Most users don't pick a browser based on engine, unless that engine is bad at rendering popular sites. They pick a browser based on UI/UX before they'll pick based on engine.
What I was meaning is that the engine limitations put limits on what Mozilla could effectively do, like this also blocked their plugin system. And because of these restrictions there was probably...
What I was meaning is that the engine limitations put limits on what Mozilla could effectively do, like this also blocked their plugin system. And because of these restrictions there was probably a bit of a "what's the point?" attitude.
So it's not directly that users pick engines. It's that there probably wasn't much internal appetite for just building Safari a second time when they wanted to build Firefox.
It did not block their ability to create a good UI. I download it every couple of years in hopes they get their heads out of their ass and, idk, actually make a good browser on iOS. It's better...
It did not block their ability to create a good UI. I download it every couple of years in hopes they get their heads out of their ass and, idk, actually make a good browser on iOS. It's better this year than before, but still meh. Up until a year ago, I was a full time desktop Firefox user, so the incentives to switch on mobile were there but still no.
I could not care any less that the engine was not Gecko for the sake of switching. A real adblock would have been nice too, but since I would have been coming from Safari I would not have dinged Firefox for it. My reasons for not using Firefox on iOS were solely UI/UX related.
Chrome understood that and subsequently has 32x the market share of Firefox despite the same engine limitation.
Yeah, the percentage of mobile users who have any idea of what “web engine” means is small. It only drives decisions for the technically inclined (and I suspect within that small segment, the half...
Yeah, the percentage of mobile users who have any idea of what “web engine” means is small. It only drives decisions for the technically inclined (and I suspect within that small segment, the half that’s more technical yet).
UI/UX is pivotal, and that of mobile Firefox (both iOS and Android) is not great, especially on tablets. For the mobile version of Chrome specifically I think much of its popularity can be attributed to Google’s incessant pushiness to use Chrome that’s peppered throughout other Google services and apps. Every time you tap a link in Gmail for iOS for example, instead of just opening your default browser it asks you if you want to open it in Chrome instead even if you don’t have it installed.
I use Chrome on my iPad because I use it elsewhere and it's an easy way to sync bookmarks, passwords, etc to my tablet. I haven't noticed any issues that I can attribute to it using a different...
I use Chrome on my iPad because I use it elsewhere and it's an easy way to sync bookmarks, passwords, etc to my tablet. I haven't noticed any issues that I can attribute to it using a different web engine.
I do see problems with bloated web pages causing other tabs to reload when I switch between them, but I assume that's due to the tablet having less memory.
That was more of a workaround for the early days where iOS did not let you change the default browser. It let people stay in the Google ecosystem should they so please instead of being sent to Safari.
That was more of a workaround for the early days where iOS did not let you change the default browser. It let people stay in the Google ecosystem should they so please instead of being sent to Safari.
That’s true, but iOS has had a default browser setting for almost 5 years by now (it debuted in iOS 14) and so with the greater bulk of iOS users using one of the two most recent major iOS...
That’s true, but iOS has had a default browser setting for almost 5 years by now (it debuted in iOS 14) and so with the greater bulk of iOS users using one of the two most recent major iOS versions, it’s outlived its usefulness by at least two or three years. I can see maybe leaving it enabled for stragglers on iOS 13 or below (if Google still targets iOS versions that old) but for 14+ it should just respect the default browser setting instead of pestering the user.
Can't speak for Apple products (which I refuse to ever buy because of what I feel are strongly monopolistic and consumer-harming practices), but Firefox on Android is a godsend. It does everything...
Can't speak for Apple products (which I refuse to ever buy because of what I feel are strongly monopolistic and consumer-harming practices), but Firefox on Android is a godsend.
It does everything you expect from a browser, and you can even install extensions. I see virtually no ads with uBlock origin installed
I hate to say it, but in this case, switching from iOS to Android would solve 2 problems: both the tab swiping and the ad blocking. But I know people can't switch willy nilly. I just now looked...
I hate to say it, but in this case, switching from iOS to Android would solve 2 problems: both the tab swiping and the ad blocking.
But I know people can't switch willy nilly. I just now looked into the barriers to ad blocking on iOS, and I'm sorry to say that this seems to be due to Apple's policy of disallowing iOS apps from using web engines outside of WebKit.
I don't know when/if you have a hardware upgrade planned, but if this is important to you, I'd consider an Android mobile device.
I have an iPhone that I keep glued (metaphorically) to my wall to use for work, because I wanted a device that was /just/ for work, due to MDM. Anyway, it means I can compare and contrast, the...
I have an iPhone that I keep glued (metaphorically) to my wall to use for work, because I wanted a device that was /just/ for work, due to MDM.
Anyway, it means I can compare and contrast, the device is an iPhone 14 Pro Max. Firstly, why would anyone upgrade /from/ this [if you like iPhones]? The thing's a beast. The UI is fast and fluid, the cameras are great, screen is great, loads of storage, and 98% battery health. Can't believe I only paid £300 for it (a colleague was upgrading).
BUT, I can't do simple things like reliably (I tested these things before wiping it again and installing InTune) uploading my camera photos to my NextCloud. The sync is not good. A cynical view would be that Apple want me to pay for iCloud storage instead. In fact, everything seems geared around pushing you to iCloud for everything. The apps for KeePass databases are all sketchy or expensive, or both, and none support what little use I make of PassKeys. There are zero good TOTP applications that I can see that let me export and back up my secrets. There is no real browser choice, just skinned safari. Ugh.
All the apps are little tiny walled gardens and creating files in one and opening in another seems much more trouble than I think it should be.
Contrasting with my personal phone I just bought, Pixel 9 Pro XL, and I have much more freedom. Google Android replaced with Graphene, apps that let me have control over my data. My photo camera sync works flawlessly. And the 9 Pro XL was £799 new, that iPhone was £1199 new.
The feel in the hand is the same for both, both feel like properly expensive devices, and I guess they are, but there's no way the iPhone is a 50% value on top of the Pixel for me.
Plenty people like the iPhone though I guess. I can't see the restrictions ever being a compromise worth making for me. I tried to live with this iPhone as my daily driver for 2 weeks before retiring it into its role as a wall mounted teams notifier.
Also, it's true I'm a grumpy old curmudgeon so there's that.
Syncing troubles usually come down to devs not understanding the iOS background processing model. With it, devs need to request a background task at some point in the future, which iOS will then...
Syncing troubles usually come down to devs not understanding the iOS background processing model. With it, devs need to request a background task at some point in the future, which iOS will then run roughly adjacent to the requested time based on how well behaved the process is (processes that are too resource-intensive, take too long, don’t provide clear signals of success/failure, crash, etc don’t get run as often). Things like availability and quality of network connections among other things also influence scheduling to help conserve power and make it more likely for the process to succeed. The process is then given the opportunity to do its thing, clean up, and close in a timely manner.
This is very different from models on desktop and Android (though less so more recently on the latter) where devs have something much closer to carte blanche and there are few or no rules, and so it confuses a lot of devs, especially those who have little experience writing for iOS (as is commonly the case for FOSS projects).
KeePass clients across the board have always felt kinda dodgy to me. Even on Mac where things are less restricted it seems like there’s a revolving door KeePass client projects in which the one that's most actively maintained and “best” is always changing, which turned me off from that ecosystem.
As for TOTP, at minimum Step Two allows straightforward export of data. It just dumps an RTF file wherever you ask it to.
I used Android for a long time but switched to iOS. My list with pros and cons on mobile OS's still favor iOS. This tabswiping and adblocking is a minor issue as I generally dislike mobile...
I used Android for a long time but switched to iOS.
My list with pros and cons on mobile OS's still favor iOS. This tabswiping and adblocking is a minor issue as I generally dislike mobile browsing.
Switching between Android and iOS is not really an issue as I tend not to use Google or Apple services for email, backup, file storage, etc.
Some people here mentioned Kagi's Orion browser for iOS which allows Firefox (and Chrome) extensions and also has tab swiping.
There’s also a bunch of ad blocking extensions for Safari which in my experience work adequately well. The ones I’ve tried are Wipr 2, 1Block, and Purify.
There’s also a bunch of ad blocking extensions for Safari which in my experience work adequately well. The ones I’ve tried are Wipr 2, 1Block, and Purify.
Have you tested it with Orion's adblocker disabled? Orion's uBlock Origin support has been a popular misconception for many years because while you could "install" it, it was nonfunctional and...
Have you tested it with Orion's adblocker disabled? Orion's uBlock Origin support has been a popular misconception for many years because while you could "install" it, it was nonfunctional and what was actually powering the work was the built-in adblocker, which was much weaker than uBO (e.g., you'll typically ads flash as they get skipped on YouTube).
I believe that the DMA opens up the possibility to run actual uBO on iOS, although I'm not in the EU so I'm not too up to date on efforts to do so.
I don’t know about on iOS but on macOS, uBO on Orion is clearly doing something because I’ve seen it display the “link blocked” page when opening URLs with trackers embedded. I haven’t verified...
I don’t know about on iOS but on macOS, uBO on Orion is clearly doing something because I’ve seen it display the “link blocked” page when opening URLs with trackers embedded. I haven’t verified the extent of its functionality, but I don’t think it’s nonfunctional.
It does work on macOS since browsers can use their own engines there. Their FAQ specifically states that Orion can run uBO on Mac. Meanwhile, it is not supported on iOS for the same reason why...
It does work on macOS since browsers can use their own engines there. Their FAQ specifically states that Orion can run uBO on Mac. Meanwhile, it is not supported on iOS for the same reason why Firefox and Chrome cannot support extensions on iOS (until now).
Yes, I specifically tested it with the internal blocker disabled. I still prefer Safari with 1Blocker, however, so I am not using Orion at the moment. Safari has better ergonomics and cross device...
Yes, I specifically tested it with the internal blocker disabled. I still prefer Safari with 1Blocker, however, so I am not using Orion at the moment. Safari has better ergonomics and cross device syncing.
In terms of good alternative open source browsers for iOS, I can highly recommend Orion browser. It is made by the people behind Kagi but can be used freely by everyone. Have been quite happy with...
In terms of good alternative open source browsers for iOS, I can highly recommend Orion browser. It is made by the people behind Kagi but can be used freely by everyone. Have been quite happy with now for over a year without any substantial issues. And it has that swipe feature you mention. Didn't even know that, so thanks for learning me something new as well.
I did see it pop up in discussions before. I just installed it and like it so far. Great that I finally have ad blocking. Let's see how long it takes before Apple kills this.
I did see it pop up in discussions before. I just installed it and like it so far.
Great that I finally have ad blocking. Let's see how long it takes before Apple kills this.
Just wanted to chip in here to say that as well as the plugins for safari noted in this thread already, you can also use Brave or Vivaldi, which both offer native ad blocking by default. I tend to...
Just wanted to chip in here to say that as well as the plugins for safari noted in this thread already, you can also use Brave or Vivaldi, which both offer native ad blocking by default.
I tend to swap and change between the two because Vivaldi requires a ludicrous amount of configuration which irritates me, but Brave has a bunch of crypto crap built in that also irritates me. That said, I prefer either to Safari.
I would go all-in on Orion, but it still doesn't play well with 1Password.
Brave got caught adding affiliate links in their auto complete a few years ago. https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/8/21283769/brave-browser-affiliate-links-crypto-privacy-ceo-apology
Minor necro here, but I wanted to report back that I've been using Orion exclusively since this post, and everything is working. The integration with 1Password still isn't as slick as it is on...
Minor necro here, but I wanted to report back that I've been using Orion exclusively since this post, and everything is working. The integration with 1Password still isn't as slick as it is on chromium based browsers, but it works. Please don't use my previous comment as a reason not to try it out. You might like it!
I'm assuming you're using 1Password as a plugin for Orion? Why aren't you using it as a system wide password manager in iOS? I've got Bitwarden setup as a system wide password manager and it's...
I'm assuming you're using 1Password as a plugin for Orion?
Why aren't you using it as a system wide password manager in iOS?
I've got Bitwarden setup as a system wide password manager and it's working great.
Off course, not as smooth as the iOS password manager but that's to be expected on iOS.
I'm happy to see that the DMA Choice Screen is actually doing something, although I fear it is perhaps too little and too late. I wholeheartedly expected more people to stick with the browser they...
I'm happy to see that the DMA Choice Screen is actually doing something, although I fear it is perhaps too little and too late.
I wholeheartedly expected more people to stick with the browser they used prior to this change.
I do wonder, if anyone has seen data depicting a similar change regarding search engines?
What does the DMA Choice Screen look like? Is it similar to the Browser Choice program Microsoft had to include in an update after their antitrust suit?
What does the DMA Choice Screen look like? Is it similar to the Browser Choice program Microsoft had to include in an update after their antitrust suit?
I recently bought a new Android phone (HMD #buyeuropean) and got to experience it first hand. It's really quite neat! Not the malicious compliance thing Microsoft pulled on Windows back then.
I recently bought a new Android phone (HMD #buyeuropean) and got to experience it first hand. It's really quite neat! Not the malicious compliance thing Microsoft pulled on Windows back then.
Actually, when I look at the archived page, it's not as bad as I remember it. Back then I got the feeling that Microsoft wanted to overwhelm the user with choices so they wouldn't bother changing...
Actually, when I look at the archived page, it's not as bad as I remember it. Back then I got the feeling that Microsoft wanted to overwhelm the user with choices so they wouldn't bother changing at all. Reading Wikipedia now, it's a bit unclear if the EU mandated which browsers should be available, or if they left those details to Microsoft.
The source code of the page itself came under criticism. The order of the browsers on screen was at first insufficiently random, which led to uneven distribution.[17][18] This was later fixed by Microsoft.[19]
The choice of browsers was also criticised.[20] At the time of its inception, half of the suggested browsers used Internet Explorer's Trident rendering engine, thus users who choose web browsers other than Internet Explorer for the intention of avoiding it might still end up using IE's layout engine.[20] This had resulted in criticism amongst the web development community even though Microsoft was adhering to the court agreement's methodology.[20]
Finally, the overall ability for users to access the site was criticised. Opera Software complained that the ballot screen could not be reached in some cases because of the start configuration screens of IE.[21] In 2012 Microsoft had issues with both Windows 7 and Windows 8 no longer leading new users in the European Union to the page. The Windows 7 SP1 retail release was initially missing BrowserChoice.eu functionality, affecting 28 million computers. The error remained unpatched for 14 months, and as a result in March 2013 the European Commission fined Microsoft €561 million.[22] Windows 8 was also released without the browser choice screen functionality and patched several days after the release. Mozilla's general counsel estimated that 6–9 million downloads of Firefox web browser alone were lost due to the mistake.[23][24]
I like where Zen is going. It’s the good parts of Arc without the iffy ones (like Arc’s decision to do away with bookmarks) and without the looming threat of enshittification that comes with...
I like where Zen is going. It’s the good parts of Arc without the iffy ones (like Arc’s decision to do away with bookmarks) and without the looming threat of enshittification that comes with venture-funded startups like The Browser Company.
It also makes use of OS window translucency (Vibrancy on macOS, Mica on Windows) which is a nice touch and makes Zen feel more native and desktop-integrated than Firefox does.
Arc’s endhittification isn’t looming. It’s here. Well, to be precise, it’s just been abandoned wholesale. The company announced that they consider Arc to be complete, and isn’t developing it at all.
Arc’s endhittification isn’t looming. It’s here. Well, to be precise, it’s just been abandoned wholesale. The company announced that they consider Arc to be complete, and isn’t developing it at all.
I tried using zen but its not as snappy as arc is and there's no cross platform syncing. So i had to go back to arc. I did like what Zen is doing and think it will get there but for now arc is...
I tried using zen but its not as snappy as arc is and there's no cross platform syncing. So i had to go back to arc. I did like what Zen is doing and think it will get there but for now arc is still better to me as someone that uses mac and pc regularly.
I, again, gave Firefox a try on my iPhone but it didn't stick and I'm back to Safari.
Swiping the address bar to easily switch between tabs is something I regularly use.
Also, there's little upside to switch to Firefox as all web browsing on an iOS device is shitty regardless of the browser as there's no ad blocking extensions available.
A ~100% increase seems to be very impressive but it should be taken in perspective of the market share of Firefox. I can't find any data for iOS specific but the market share for mobile browsers for Firefox is ~0.5%.
I don't really get the focus on market share for browsers.
I don't care what anybody else is using, I only care about my browser.
Is this something only missing on iOS? On Android, this feature works just fine. Odd omission.
This has been a "new idea" since 2022
https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/ideas/swipe-between-open-tabs-on-ios/idi-p/2088
I guess the development for iOS is lacking as there's less interest in a different browser than on Android.
Until these new DMA rules Firefox has been forbidden by Apple from really being anything except a reskin of Safari. Due to these restrictions I don't think there was a lot of appetite to really bother much with the iOS code base. Maybe now, when they can switch to Gecko and it be a real distinct product, they'll support it better.
For anyone seeking a short version of why: Apple has forbidden code interpreters inside apps, except for what Apple provided. Since a browser kind of needs to support JS this meant using the provided WebKit engine was the only way to make a browser at all.
Most users don't pick a browser based on engine, unless that engine is bad at rendering popular sites. They pick a browser based on UI/UX before they'll pick based on engine.
What I was meaning is that the engine limitations put limits on what Mozilla could effectively do, like this also blocked their plugin system. And because of these restrictions there was probably a bit of a "what's the point?" attitude.
So it's not directly that users pick engines. It's that there probably wasn't much internal appetite for just building Safari a second time when they wanted to build Firefox.
It did not block their ability to create a good UI. I download it every couple of years in hopes they get their heads out of their ass and, idk, actually make a good browser on iOS. It's better this year than before, but still meh. Up until a year ago, I was a full time desktop Firefox user, so the incentives to switch on mobile were there but still no.
I could not care any less that the engine was not Gecko for the sake of switching. A real adblock would have been nice too, but since I would have been coming from Safari I would not have dinged Firefox for it. My reasons for not using Firefox on iOS were solely UI/UX related.
Chrome understood that and subsequently has 32x the market share of Firefox despite the same engine limitation.
Yeah, the percentage of mobile users who have any idea of what “web engine” means is small. It only drives decisions for the technically inclined (and I suspect within that small segment, the half that’s more technical yet).
UI/UX is pivotal, and that of mobile Firefox (both iOS and Android) is not great, especially on tablets. For the mobile version of Chrome specifically I think much of its popularity can be attributed to Google’s incessant pushiness to use Chrome that’s peppered throughout other Google services and apps. Every time you tap a link in Gmail for iOS for example, instead of just opening your default browser it asks you if you want to open it in Chrome instead even if you don’t have it installed.
I use Chrome on my iPad because I use it elsewhere and it's an easy way to sync bookmarks, passwords, etc to my tablet. I haven't noticed any issues that I can attribute to it using a different web engine.
I do see problems with bloated web pages causing other tabs to reload when I switch between them, but I assume that's due to the tablet having less memory.
That was more of a workaround for the early days where iOS did not let you change the default browser. It let people stay in the Google ecosystem should they so please instead of being sent to Safari.
That’s true, but iOS has had a default browser setting for almost 5 years by now (it debuted in iOS 14) and so with the greater bulk of iOS users using one of the two most recent major iOS versions, it’s outlived its usefulness by at least two or three years. I can see maybe leaving it enabled for stragglers on iOS 13 or below (if Google still targets iOS versions that old) but for 14+ it should just respect the default browser setting instead of pestering the user.
I see. That's pretty terrible... I can't imagine not having that gesture. But I guess Mozilla fumbling something isn't a shock.
I care because more people using a browser, the more reason to continue developing it. The more people to (hopefully) submit bug reports. Etc.
Yes that's completely true. Shortly after posting my comment I already understood why a broader userbase would be beneficial to me.
Can't speak for Apple products (which I refuse to ever buy because of what I feel are strongly monopolistic and consumer-harming practices), but Firefox on Android is a godsend.
It does everything you expect from a browser, and you can even install extensions. I see virtually no ads with uBlock origin installed
I hate to say it, but in this case, switching from iOS to Android would solve 2 problems: both the tab swiping and the ad blocking.
But I know people can't switch willy nilly. I just now looked into the barriers to ad blocking on iOS, and I'm sorry to say that this seems to be due to Apple's policy of disallowing iOS apps from using web engines outside of WebKit.
I don't know when/if you have a hardware upgrade planned, but if this is important to you, I'd consider an Android mobile device.
I have an iPhone that I keep glued (metaphorically) to my wall to use for work, because I wanted a device that was /just/ for work, due to MDM.
Anyway, it means I can compare and contrast, the device is an iPhone 14 Pro Max. Firstly, why would anyone upgrade /from/ this [if you like iPhones]? The thing's a beast. The UI is fast and fluid, the cameras are great, screen is great, loads of storage, and 98% battery health. Can't believe I only paid £300 for it (a colleague was upgrading).
BUT, I can't do simple things like reliably (I tested these things before wiping it again and installing InTune) uploading my camera photos to my NextCloud. The sync is not good. A cynical view would be that Apple want me to pay for iCloud storage instead. In fact, everything seems geared around pushing you to iCloud for everything. The apps for KeePass databases are all sketchy or expensive, or both, and none support what little use I make of PassKeys. There are zero good TOTP applications that I can see that let me export and back up my secrets. There is no real browser choice, just skinned safari. Ugh.
All the apps are little tiny walled gardens and creating files in one and opening in another seems much more trouble than I think it should be.
Contrasting with my personal phone I just bought, Pixel 9 Pro XL, and I have much more freedom. Google Android replaced with Graphene, apps that let me have control over my data. My photo camera sync works flawlessly. And the 9 Pro XL was £799 new, that iPhone was £1199 new.
The feel in the hand is the same for both, both feel like properly expensive devices, and I guess they are, but there's no way the iPhone is a 50% value on top of the Pixel for me.
Plenty people like the iPhone though I guess. I can't see the restrictions ever being a compromise worth making for me. I tried to live with this iPhone as my daily driver for 2 weeks before retiring it into its role as a wall mounted teams notifier.
Also, it's true I'm a grumpy old curmudgeon so there's that.
Syncing troubles usually come down to devs not understanding the iOS background processing model. With it, devs need to request a background task at some point in the future, which iOS will then run roughly adjacent to the requested time based on how well behaved the process is (processes that are too resource-intensive, take too long, don’t provide clear signals of success/failure, crash, etc don’t get run as often). Things like availability and quality of network connections among other things also influence scheduling to help conserve power and make it more likely for the process to succeed. The process is then given the opportunity to do its thing, clean up, and close in a timely manner.
This is very different from models on desktop and Android (though less so more recently on the latter) where devs have something much closer to carte blanche and there are few or no rules, and so it confuses a lot of devs, especially those who have little experience writing for iOS (as is commonly the case for FOSS projects).
KeePass clients across the board have always felt kinda dodgy to me. Even on Mac where things are less restricted it seems like there’s a revolving door KeePass client projects in which the one that's most actively maintained and “best” is always changing, which turned me off from that ecosystem.
As for TOTP, at minimum Step Two allows straightforward export of data. It just dumps an RTF file wherever you ask it to.
I'll check this one out should the need arise in future, thanks
I used Android for a long time but switched to iOS.
My list with pros and cons on mobile OS's still favor iOS. This tabswiping and adblocking is a minor issue as I generally dislike mobile browsing.
Switching between Android and iOS is not really an issue as I tend not to use Google or Apple services for email, backup, file storage, etc.
Some people here mentioned Kagi's Orion browser for iOS which allows Firefox (and Chrome) extensions and also has tab swiping.
You can install extensions on iOS in Orion. I just tested it with uBlock Origin (Firefox xpi from gorhill GitHub release) and it works.
There’s also a bunch of ad blocking extensions for Safari which in my experience work adequately well. The ones I’ve tried are Wipr 2, 1Block, and Purify.
Thanks for the suggestion, just installed Orion. I like it.
Have you tested it with Orion's adblocker disabled? Orion's uBlock Origin support has been a popular misconception for many years because while you could "install" it, it was nonfunctional and what was actually powering the work was the built-in adblocker, which was much weaker than uBO (e.g., you'll typically ads flash as they get skipped on YouTube).
I believe that the DMA opens up the possibility to run actual uBO on iOS, although I'm not in the EU so I'm not too up to date on efforts to do so.
I don’t know about on iOS but on macOS, uBO on Orion is clearly doing something because I’ve seen it display the “link blocked” page when opening URLs with trackers embedded. I haven’t verified the extent of its functionality, but I don’t think it’s nonfunctional.
It does work on macOS since browsers can use their own engines there. Their FAQ specifically states that Orion can run uBO on Mac. Meanwhile, it is not supported on iOS for the same reason why Firefox and Chrome cannot support extensions on iOS (until now).
Yes, I specifically tested it with the internal blocker disabled. I still prefer Safari with 1Blocker, however, so I am not using Orion at the moment. Safari has better ergonomics and cross device syncing.
In terms of good alternative open source browsers for iOS, I can highly recommend Orion browser. It is made by the people behind Kagi but can be used freely by everyone. Have been quite happy with now for over a year without any substantial issues. And it has that swipe feature you mention. Didn't even know that, so thanks for learning me something new as well.
I did see it pop up in discussions before. I just installed it and like it so far.
Great that I finally have ad blocking. Let's see how long it takes before Apple kills this.
Just wanted to chip in here to say that as well as the plugins for safari noted in this thread already, you can also use Brave or Vivaldi, which both offer native ad blocking by default.
I tend to swap and change between the two because Vivaldi requires a ludicrous amount of configuration which irritates me, but Brave has a bunch of crypto crap built in that also irritates me. That said, I prefer either to Safari.
I would go all-in on Orion, but it still doesn't play well with 1Password.
Brave got caught adding affiliate links in their auto complete a few years ago.
https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/8/21283769/brave-browser-affiliate-links-crypto-privacy-ceo-apology
They've been caught doing a lot of shady stuff over the years and they still get a pass for some reason.
Orion seems work fine with Bitwarden that I've configured as password manager on iOS so I'll be sticking with Orion for the time being.
Minor necro here, but I wanted to report back that I've been using Orion exclusively since this post, and everything is working. The integration with 1Password still isn't as slick as it is on chromium based browsers, but it works. Please don't use my previous comment as a reason not to try it out. You might like it!
I'm assuming you're using 1Password as a plugin for Orion?
Why aren't you using it as a system wide password manager in iOS?
I've got Bitwarden setup as a system wide password manager and it's working great.
Off course, not as smooth as the iOS password manager but that's to be expected on iOS.
I am. It's on the desktop that it struggles...
I'm happy to see that the DMA Choice Screen is actually doing something, although I fear it is perhaps too little and too late.
I wholeheartedly expected more people to stick with the browser they used prior to this change.
I do wonder, if anyone has seen data depicting a similar change regarding search engines?
What does the DMA Choice Screen look like? Is it similar to the Browser Choice program Microsoft had to include in an update after their antitrust suit?
I recently bought a new Android phone (HMD #buyeuropean) and got to experience it first hand. It's really quite neat! Not the malicious compliance thing Microsoft pulled on Windows back then.
Off topic: could you share more about this? I remember the antitrust lawsuit but didn't remember at all what Microsoft's implementation looked like.
Actually, when I look at the archived page, it's not as bad as I remember it. Back then I got the feeling that Microsoft wanted to overwhelm the user with choices so they wouldn't bother changing at all. Reading Wikipedia now, it's a bit unclear if the EU mandated which browsers should be available, or if they left those details to Microsoft.
But also:
I came across https://zen-browser.app/ somewhere recently and I like it a lot. It's firefox based. Looks a lot like arc browser
I like where Zen is going. It’s the good parts of Arc without the iffy ones (like Arc’s decision to do away with bookmarks) and without the looming threat of enshittification that comes with venture-funded startups like The Browser Company.
It also makes use of OS window translucency (Vibrancy on macOS, Mica on Windows) which is a nice touch and makes Zen feel more native and desktop-integrated than Firefox does.
Arc’s endhittification isn’t looming. It’s here. Well, to be precise, it’s just been abandoned wholesale. The company announced that they consider Arc to be complete, and isn’t developing it at all.
I tried using zen but its not as snappy as arc is and there's no cross platform syncing. So i had to go back to arc. I did like what Zen is doing and think it will get there but for now arc is still better to me as someone that uses mac and pc regularly.