20 votes

Reddit banned a page that trafficked in white supremacist content, but the problem is much bigger

Topic removed by site admin

35 comments

  1. [26]
    Deimos
    Link
    Glad to finally see milliondollarextreme (and billionshekelextreme) banned, it's been really bad for a long time. I'm curious what finally pushed them over the edge, I've seen a lot of speculation...

    Glad to finally see milliondollarextreme (and billionshekelextreme) banned, it's been really bad for a long time. I'm curious what finally pushed them over the edge, I've seen a lot of speculation that it was them targeting Serena Williams lately (who's married to Alexis, one of the founders).

    I'm hoping /r/greatawakening will be next, it's only a matter of time until something really bad happens as a result of that subreddit like it did with /r/pizzagate. It would be a nice change of pace to see reddit recognize that and act before it happens this time.

    27 votes
    1. [8]
      trojanhorse
      Link Parent
      What was pizzagate?

      What was pizzagate?

      7 votes
      1. [4]
        Deimos
        Link Parent
        Oh god, where to even start with that. This article looks like a reasonable quick summary: http://time.com/4590255/pizzagate-fake-news-what-to-know/

        Oh god, where to even start with that. This article looks like a reasonable quick summary: http://time.com/4590255/pizzagate-fake-news-what-to-know/

        13 votes
        1. [2]
          trojanhorse
          Link Parent
          People bought that!? And showed up to protest!? What in the world...... I mean a normal person would be like, "I need something concrete first. This seems a little whacky."

          People bought that!? And showed up to protest!? What in the world...... I mean a normal person would be like, "I need something concrete first. This seems a little whacky."

          10 votes
          1. KapteinB
            Link Parent
            I think you're severely overestimating the critical thinking of normal persons.

            I think you're severely overestimating the critical thinking of normal persons.

            8 votes
      2. [2]
        sublime_aenima
        Link Parent
        A conspiracy that some top Democrats had a pedo ring in the basement of a pizza parlor and some moron came in with a gun. Iirc the pizza place didn’t even have a basement.

        A conspiracy that some top Democrats had a pedo ring in the basement of a pizza parlor and some moron came in with a gun. Iirc the pizza place didn’t even have a basement.

        10 votes
        1. trojanhorse
          Link Parent
          People are so quick to believe nonsense. Ask questions people, have reasonable doubt in the beginning.

          People are so quick to believe nonsense. Ask questions people, have reasonable doubt in the beginning.

          7 votes
    2. [17]
      Comment removed by site admin
      Link Parent
      1. [16]
        cain
        Link Parent
        Realistically what does banning accomplish? /r/milliondollarextreme is like the 4th or 5th iteration or /r/niggers and /r/coontown is it not? And /r/braincels is just /r/incels which already got...

        Realistically what does banning accomplish? /r/milliondollarextreme is like the 4th or 5th iteration or /r/niggers and /r/coontown is it not?

        And /r/braincels is just /r/incels which already got the ban, and /r/braincels is seemingly more popular than /r/incels ever was, thanks to the likes of /r/inceltears and /r/againsthatesubreddits constantly showcasing them for the rest of reddit.

        It seems like an endless cycle that has never accomplished anything, until there is something more concrete than banning a community its just words and PR

        2 votes
        1. [9]
          Comment deleted by author
          Link Parent
          1. [8]
            cain
            Link Parent
            I'd be interested in seeing long term. This says /r/coontown was 20,000 subscribers at its time of banning and a sizable amount of users became inactive after the ban, that seems to be what...

            I'd be interested in seeing long term. This says /r/coontown was 20,000 subscribers at its time of banning and a sizable amount of users became inactive after the ban, that seems to be what they're getting at.

            /r/milliondollarextreme had over ~45,000 at the time of ban based on the screenshot in the article. Im sure a lot of those users are now inactive, no question, but I'd also argue that they will abandon their accounts and just make new accounts so it's not connected to /r/milliondollarextreme anymore.

            I have no doubt that short term the amount of toxicity is drastically reduced, what I'm saying is that unless more swift bans of these communities that pop up to take their place we just end up talking about the same exact thing a year or two from now when the admins take their head out of the sand to ban whatever subreddit pops up to take its place, see /r/braincels

            4 votes
            1. [3]
              Neverland
              (edited )
              Link Parent
              Crazy thought experiment: These subs are cancer, and they are tiny when compared to the entire userbase. When a person has cancer, the doctor cuts out healthy tissue along the margins to make sure...

              Crazy thought experiment:

              These subs are cancer, and they are tiny when compared to the entire userbase. When a person has cancer, the doctor cuts out healthy tissue along the margins to make sure they remove the entire growth.

              What if reddit banned the mods of these cancerous subs, and now this is really dramatic, what if they banned the most active subscribers as well?

              Maybe even include a ban message with a link to Voat, so as not to leave the cancer entirely butt hurt.

              11 votes
              1. [2]
                cain
                Link Parent
                Absolutely, I think any mod of a subreddit that is removed for site rules violations should be banned, that seems too logical to not do. I'm not sure if they have done that in the past but also...

                Absolutely, I think any mod of a subreddit that is removed for site rules violations should be banned, that seems too logical to not do. I'm not sure if they have done that in the past but also ban evasion is pretty damn easy to just come back with a fresh account.

                11 votes
                1. Neverland
                  Link Parent
                  Agreed, but at the very least it sends a message. And to reuse the medical analogy, this course of treatment has at least some efficacy.

                  but also ban evasion is pretty damn easy to just come back with a fresh account.

                  Agreed, but at the very least it sends a message. And to reuse the medical analogy, this course of treatment has at least some efficacy.

                  6 votes
            2. [2]
              Comment deleted by author
              Link Parent
              1. cain
                Link Parent
                Yes, this is exactly what I'm saying, if the admins didn't let these communities grow for years they wouldn't see reddit as a platform for racism and hate and they'd fuck off somewhere else, but...

                The lag in banning is more an issue with the admins rather than the bans themselves having no effect

                Yes, this is exactly what I'm saying, if the admins didn't let these communities grow for years they wouldn't see reddit as a platform for racism and hate and they'd fuck off somewhere else, but it takes them far too long for users to care about going somewhere else, if they can just hop from /r/coontown to /r/milliondollarextreme and chill there for what 3 years then what's going to make them go somewhere else? These groups have this platform that is reddit because the admins sit on their hands. That's what I'm saying.

                7 votes
            3. [2]
              nathan
              Link Parent
              Reddit has also increased dramatically in size, I wouldn’t be surprised if it was more than 75% increased since the banning of the original subreddit. Which would mean proportionally less users....

              Reddit has also increased dramatically in size, I wouldn’t be surprised if it was more than 75% increased since the banning of the original subreddit. Which would mean proportionally less users. Although with a less... discoverable? Name that might also contribute to the decrease in users (proportionally)

              5 votes
              1. cain
                Link Parent
                They'd be a lot less discoverable and less likely to grow if 'counter-hate' subreddits didn't put them on /r/all multiple times a week.

                They'd be a lot less discoverable and less likely to grow if 'counter-hate' subreddits didn't put them on /r/all multiple times a week.

                2 votes
            4. [2]
              Comment removed by site admin
              Link Parent
              1. cain
                Link Parent
                You're right I think we might be seeing the admins finally turn it around. A lot of the MDE alternatives are gone and now GreatAwakening so looks like the admins might have pulled their head out...

                You're right I think we might be seeing the admins finally turn it around. A lot of the MDE alternatives are gone and now GreatAwakening so looks like the admins might have pulled their head out of the sand at least temporarily.

                1 vote
        2. [8]
          Comment removed by site admin
          Link Parent
          1. [7]
            cain
            Link Parent
            What communities have actually left reddit, full stop gone, never came back? I can't think of a single community that has been banned from reddit that hasn't just popped up as a different name in...

            If you deplatform them then they go to another site and stop spreading hate and toxicity on reddit.

            What communities have actually left reddit, full stop gone, never came back? I can't think of a single community that has been banned from reddit that hasn't just popped up as a different name in a different sub. voat was it for a while but over time they all trickled back into reddit and are just as present as they ever have been, the same thing will continue to happen. Short term these may decrease toxicity but it slowly comes back.

            In addition, giving these folks a platform legitimizes their beliefs and enables them to continue to "red pill the normies" and recruit gullible idiots to white nationalism.

            The platform is reddit, they have a platform, they move around every few months/years to new communities but they always have been and always will be around unless something more concrete than banning a community is implemented. I'm not arguing that short term it kites the problem, but long term it isn't doing anything.

            1 vote
            1. [3]
              Archimedes
              Link Parent
              It's definitely a bit of whack-a-mole, but it does help reduce the absolute amount of hate speech, even if it doesn't eliminate it completely and permanently.

              It's definitely a bit of whack-a-mole, but it does help reduce the absolute amount of hate speech, even if it doesn't eliminate it completely and permanently.

              7 votes
              1. [2]
                cain
                Link Parent
                I agree, I'm simply saying it would be much less of a whack-a-mole if these communities were banned more swiftly instead of being allowed to grow for years after they all migrate from one to the...

                I agree, I'm simply saying it would be much less of a whack-a-mole if these communities were banned more swiftly instead of being allowed to grow for years after they all migrate from one to the other, just like /r/incels went directly to /r/braincels that same day and here were are what a year later trying to get them banned, it should have been over long ago.

                5 votes
                1. Archimedes
                  Link Parent
                  For sure. If you have to play whack-a-mole, don't give the moles a year to set up camp and metastasize before dealing with them.

                  For sure. If you have to play whack-a-mole, don't give the moles a year to set up camp and metastasize before dealing with them.

                  4 votes
            2. [3]
              spctrvl
              Link Parent
              Is FatPeopleHate still around? I haven't heard of or noticed them since maybe a month or two after the sub was banned.

              What communities have actually left reddit, full stop gone, never came back?

              Is FatPeopleHate still around? I haven't heard of or noticed them since maybe a month or two after the sub was banned.

              5 votes
              1. [2]
                cain
                Link Parent
                Yeah thinking about it I'd say FPH and the whole /r/creepshots community that went through 3 or 4 iterations after they were banned before they finally went elsewhere for good, unless I'm missing one.

                Yeah thinking about it I'd say FPH and the whole /r/creepshots community that went through 3 or 4 iterations after they were banned before they finally went elsewhere for good, unless I'm missing one.

                2 votes
                1. spctrvl
                  Link Parent
                  Going off your other comment, it does seem like the admins were more on top of banning the duplicate FPH subreddits, and that that's had a lasting effect on the suppression of that community. The...

                  Going off your other comment, it does seem like the admins were more on top of banning the duplicate FPH subreddits, and that that's had a lasting effect on the suppression of that community. The banning of the more recently popular far-right subreddits has been lukewarm and piecemeal at best, and so they persist.

                  2 votes
    3. [2]
      Comment removed by site admin
      Link Parent
      1. stephen
        Link Parent
        That's good news. Greatawakening gave me the fucking creeps. I have no illusions that the qAnon thing is here to stay but at least they have one less platform to disseminate.

        That's good news. Greatawakening gave me the fucking creeps.

        I have no illusions that the qAnon thing is here to stay but at least they have one less platform to disseminate.

        3 votes
  2. spit-evil-olive-tips
    Link
    "We are not, however, clear on how long that'll take. Usually we'll let the content fester for awhile and then only ban once it starts to gather media attention and it's obvious we can't ignore it...

    "We are very clear in our site terms of service that posting content that incites violence will get users and communities banned from Reddit."

    "We are not, however, clear on how long that'll take. Usually we'll let the content fester for awhile and then only ban once it starts to gather media attention and it's obvious we can't ignore it for any longer than we already have."

    14 votes
  3. KapteinB
    Link
    A true gentleman that one. These awful subreddits were one of the reasons I started looking for an alternative to Reddit. I like browsing /r/all, but there's long been a few super-toxic subreddits...

    BuzzFeed News emailed Hyde asking for comment about the social media bans. He responded with a racial slur.

    A true gentleman that one.

    These awful subreddits were one of the reasons I started looking for an alternative to Reddit. I like browsing /r/all, but there's long been a few super-toxic subreddits with high visibility that have put a damper on the fun. It improved a bit when they introduced the limit to how many posts a subreddit could have on /r/all simultaneously, but at that point I was already invested in several alternative sites.

    I believe Tildes is doing the right thing in not allowing users to create their own groups.

    13 votes
  4. [8]
    Comment deleted by author
    Link
    1. [3]
      Deimos
      Link Parent
      Looks like a decent number have moved over to Voat, as can be expected: https://voat.co/v/milliondollarextreme There are currently more users online in that subverse than almost all of the other...

      Looks like a decent number have moved over to Voat, as can be expected: https://voat.co/v/milliondollarextreme

      There are currently more users online in that subverse than almost all of the other major ones on the site.

      10 votes
      1. [2]
        teaearlgraycold
        Link Parent
        Off-topic, but I just noticed that Voat is a .NET application running on Windows. That's odd for a relatively new web application.

        Off-topic, but I just noticed that Voat is a .NET application running on Windows. That's odd for a relatively new web application.

        4 votes
        1. Deimos
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          As far as I know, it's because it was originally written as a college project. So the guy probably had to write a web app using .NET or something, and chose to build a reddit clone. It was really...

          As far as I know, it's because it was originally written as a college project. So the guy probably had to write a web app using .NET or something, and chose to build a reddit clone.

          It was really a clone initially too, he actually just totally copied reddit's HTML and CSS and then made it (partially) work by rebuilding the backend code in .NET. It looked exactly like reddit originally - here's one of the first snapshots from when it was originally called "Whoaverse" (which is why the "subreddits" are still called "subverses").

          9 votes
    2. [4]
      sublime_aenima
      Link Parent
      To any of the other dozens of subs that allow racism

      To any of the other dozens of subs that allow racism

      6 votes
      1. [3]
        trojanhorse
        Link Parent
        I really like /r/blackpeopletwitter and I get it is in good fun - But they do often post out-right racist things. Kinds of things /r/whitepeopletwitter could never get away with. But 86% of the...

        I really like /r/blackpeopletwitter and I get it is in good fun - But they do often post out-right racist things. Kinds of things /r/whitepeopletwitter could never get away with. But 86% of the time bpt is all in good humor.

        3 votes
        1. sublime_aenima
          Link Parent
          Yeah, I never liked the punching up attitude that lots of their user base have. At the same time, they get tons of racist white people being shitty in pretty much every popular post.

          Yeah, I never liked the punching up attitude that lots of their user base have. At the same time, they get tons of racist white people being shitty in pretty much every popular post.

          4 votes
        2. [2]
          Comment removed by site admin
          Link Parent
          1. trojanhorse
            Link Parent
            I don't mean those. Like I said, it's mostly in good humor, but there are some flat out I hate whitie posts over there. I'm not complaining. I am just more so talking about drawing a line on what...

            A lot of folks get insanely bent out of shape over the most mundane posts about being white.

            I don't mean those. Like I said, it's mostly in good humor, but there are some flat out I hate whitie posts over there. I'm not complaining. I am just more so talking about drawing a line on what is acceptable even if technically racist. Basically, I am saying subs like BPT do not equal things like fatpeoplehate