29 votes

Tesla launches long-awaited standard Model 3 starting at $35,000

19 comments

  1. [6]
    Sahasrahla Link
    Musk has become a controversial figure but I don't think you could argue he went into orbital rockets and electric cars when he did because they were good investments. He has a vision for what he...

    "We think it's a mistake from a strategic perspective and are skeptical of the gross margins on that $35,000 vehicle. In our view, they would be better served sticking to premium electric vehicles instead of this mass market, Henry Ford-type mentality of affordable vehicles for all," said Garrett Nelson from CFRA.

    Musk has become a controversial figure but I don't think you could argue he went into orbital rockets and electric cars when he did because they were good investments. He has a vision for what he wants to do and it's not about money.

    17 votes
    1. [4]
      elcuello (edited ) Link Parent
      This to me is what's wrong with the world today. He's an analyst and based on his focus on making profit he's probably right but fuck me I'm so sick and tired on this being the only viable train...

      "We think it's a mistake from a strategic perspective and are skeptical of the gross margins on that $35,000 vehicle. In our view, they would be better served sticking to premium electric vehicles instead of this mass market, Henry Ford-type mentality of affordable vehicles for all," said Garrett Nelson from CFRA.

      This to me is what's wrong with the world today. He's an analyst and based on his focus on making profit he's probably right but fuck me I'm so sick and tired on this being the only viable train of thought. Yes, Tesla shouldn't go out of business because of this but God forbid anyone is not thinking about money all the fucking time.

      13 votes
      1. [2]
        cfabbro (edited ) Link Parent
        To be fair, that's largely Elon's fault, and any other former private owner/s who takes their company public. As soon as you invite stock holders and investors into the mix, while it has its...

        To be fair, that's largely Elon's fault, and any other former private owner/s who takes their company public. As soon as you invite stock holders and investors into the mix, while it has its benefits regarding generating additional capital, serving their interests becomes paramount and if you don't they and/or the board of directors can and often will remove you from your position as CEO. And given Elon's long list of recent fuck ups and precarious position already thanks to the settlement with the SEC, not trying to maximize the profits on the model 3 could be the end for him if enough stockholders agree with the assessment that the profit margin is far too slim and think this is the final straw.

        IPOs and VCs are Pandora's box and the only way to not involve outright greed in companies' operational decisions is to incorporate as a non-profit from the outset (like Tildes has) or if private, never give in to the temptation to open that box and instead remain private, since it's very hard to un-ring that bell once rung. ;)

        5 votes
        1. papasquat Link Parent
          I'm sure Elon was never thrilled about these companies being public, but even as rich as he was from paypal, you just can't break into industries as entrenched as auto manufacturing and aerospace...

          To be fair, that's largely Elon's fault, and any other former private owner/s who takes their company public.

          I'm sure Elon was never thrilled about these companies being public, but even as rich as he was from paypal, you just can't break into industries as entrenched as auto manufacturing and aerospace without a ridiculous amount of capital. There's no other way he could have possibly done it in my view.

          3 votes
      2. papasquat Link Parent
        The guy writing that is writing it for investors, not the world at large. Investors literally only care about return on investment. A huge amount of investors don't even know what companies...

        This to me is what's wrong with the world today. He's analyst an based on his focus on making profit he's probably right but fuck me I'm so sick and tired on this being the only viable train of thought.

        The guy writing that is writing it for investors, not the world at large. Investors literally only care about return on investment. A huge amount of investors don't even know what companies they're invested in. Because ROI is the one metric that really matters, investment platforms are commodities in a way. I'm sure this guy doesn't have anything personally against Tesla or what Elon's trying to do, but as an investment analyst, it's really his one job to report on how viable an investment product is.

        2 votes
    2. onyxleopard Link Parent
      At the same time, if his ventures aren’t financially successful, it’s a lot harder to accomplish his goals.

      At the same time, if his ventures aren’t financially successful, it’s a lot harder to accomplish his goals.

      1 vote
  2. [3]
    dubteedub (edited ) Link
    Tesla also just announced they are closing all of their retail stores and will only be selling cars online from now on....

    Tesla also just announced they are closing all of their retail stores and will only be selling cars online from now on.

    https://www.theverge.com/2019/2/28/18245296/tesla-stores-closing-online-only-car-sales

    This seems like a huge change in strategy for the company, particularly after they spent millions in lobbying to be able to set these stores up in the first place.

    6 votes
    1. [2]
      papasquat Link Parent
      That's kind of interesting. If I were to want to buy a Tesla, how would I ever know if I liked it or not first? Is there some sort of other facility to allow people to test drive cars? Do people...

      That's kind of interesting. If I were to want to buy a Tesla, how would I ever know if I liked it or not first? Is there some sort of other facility to allow people to test drive cars? Do people really consider buying a car they've never driven before?

      6 votes
      1. Diff Link Parent
        Sounds like the remaining retail stores are turning into galleries.

        Sounds like the remaining retail stores are turning into galleries.

        1 vote
  3. [4]
    PathOfTheProkopton Link
    I'd love to get one of these, but I'm not sure how long the batteries will last. Anyone have estimates on the lifespan of the batteries that Model 3s use and the cost of replacement?

    I'd love to get one of these, but I'm not sure how long the batteries will last.

    Anyone have estimates on the lifespan of the batteries that Model 3s use and the cost of replacement?

    1 vote
    1. Bedevere Link Parent
      The reports from people with early Model S's are that the batteries are performing even better than promised. Here's one link with some data:...

      The reports from people with early Model S's are that the batteries are performing even better than promised. Here's one link with some data: https://cleantechnica.com/2018/04/16/tesla-batteries-have-90-capacity-after-160000-miles-may-last-for-500000-miles/ You will probably never replace the battery, but lose a little bit of range over time.

      On a side note, Tesla is now releasing an over the air update giving an extra 15 miles of range on long range Model 3's because of improved firmware, so after a year of ownership, my battery has effectively improved. (This car is absolutely amazing, and unlike anything I've ever driven before. I love it so much for so many reasons).

      8 votes
    2. Akir Link Parent
      I have a 2012 Nissan Leaf. There are somewhere between 12 to 16 indicator bars for capacity. I have pretty heavy use and have only lost a capacity bar last year at about 70,000 miles. But I also...

      I have a 2012 Nissan Leaf. There are somewhere between 12 to 16 indicator bars for capacity. I have pretty heavy use and have only lost a capacity bar last year at about 70,000 miles. But I also live in a very temperate environment, generally free of freezing weather, which is bad for these batteries.

      I looked up how much it costs to replace the battery pack and it looks like it costs anywhere between $3000 and $6000. But the Tesla battery pack has much more capacity and energy density. AFAIK they have not released any pricing for replacing their battery. I saw an article that the current model standard capacity battery is estimated to cost Tesla $8800. The consumer cost is going to be substantially higher.

      3 votes
    3. Weldawadyathink Link Parent
      I don't know specifically about the use in cars, but I have heard good things about the batteries separately. You can buy Tesla 18650 lipos on ebay and from the one thing I saw about them, they...

      I don't know specifically about the use in cars, but I have heard good things about the batteries separately. You can buy Tesla 18650 lipos on ebay and from the one thing I saw about them, they had something like 92% capacity after the same number of cycles as the next best Samsung cell, which had 80%. I only saw this a very long time ago, so I'm not sure about the numbers. Also, things may have changed since then.

      2 votes
  4. [6]
    Heichou Link
    Teslas have always sounded very neat, and I wish I could switch to a straight electric car to reduce my footprint, but I don't think 35k is something I could ever comfortably drop until I'm 35....

    Teslas have always sounded very neat, and I wish I could switch to a straight electric car to reduce my footprint, but I don't think 35k is something I could ever comfortably drop until I'm 35. Somehow I think things will be more expensive in 14 years from now

    1 vote
    1. [2]
      Akir Link Parent
      I'm willing to bet that prices will continue to drop on electric cars. The more people adopt electric, the more the industry will invest into building them, the cheaper they get. Beyond that, 14...

      I'm willing to bet that prices will continue to drop on electric cars. The more people adopt electric, the more the industry will invest into building them, the cheaper they get.

      Beyond that, 14 years from now there will be a pretty good used market on electric cars. Heck, you can buy a pretty good used Leaf right now for practically nothing - though they admittedly offer nowhere near the driving range of this Tesla model

      5 votes
      1. timo Link Parent
        Exactly. A lot of companies other than Tesla have started selling good electric cars (think Jaguar I-Pace, Hyundai Kona, Kia Niro). Many others will do so this year or the next (Audi e-tron, VW's...

        Exactly. A lot of companies other than Tesla have started selling good electric cars (think Jaguar I-Pace, Hyundai Kona, Kia Niro). Many others will do so this year or the next (Audi e-tron, VW's lineup). All these mentioned have very good range. The high-end brands are, and will always be, expensive. But most people aren't buying those anyway.

        Both Hyundai and Kia show that they can make good electric cars for a reasonable price (like the Model 3). And for most companies (except maybe BMW), this is only their first attempt. With dropping battery prices and improved production capacity, prices will drop. When EVs are prices similar to their ICE counterparts, the choice is easy: EVs are cheaper to drive and need less maintenance.

        1 vote
    2. [3]
      papasquat Link Parent
      The issue I have with Tesla is the issue I have with Apple, Samsung, HTC, Huawei, etc. It seems that as soon as a tech company gets their grubby paws on an industry, you no longer own those...

      The issue I have with Tesla is the issue I have with Apple, Samsung, HTC, Huawei, etc. It seems that as soon as a tech company gets their grubby paws on an industry, you no longer own those devices.

      You can barely repair a Tesla yourself. Features are locked behind non-modifiable firmware. Finding parts is a nightmare. They want this car to be a black box that you go to a Tesla store to get service and fixed and you don't worry about.
      That's fine for many people, but I, and many others like to be able to know that I actually own the thing I spent 35k on. I don't take cars to dealers for oil changes or brake jobs, or coolant flushes. They're easy to do on most cars, but the trend is for them to arbitrarily get harder to do for no reason that I can tell except for necessitating a trip to a licensed dealer. Tesla may be the single worst auto manufacturer I've ever seen regarding this stuff.

      5 votes
      1. onyxleopard Link Parent
        I’m pretty sure the parts are hard to find because there aren’t that many cars on the road, relatively, and Tesla has been flat out just fulfilling their orders, rather than concentrating on spare...

        I’m pretty sure the parts are hard to find because there aren’t that many cars on the road, relatively, and Tesla has been flat out just fulfilling their orders, rather than concentrating on spare parts. I think once the company has their proverbial feet planted on the ground rather than sprinting from one mile marker to the next, that issue should be alleviated. That said, in many ways Teslas are simpler, and should require less maintenance. In other ways they are more like computers than mechanical devices, so you need a totally different skill set to work on them. But, still, there is a niche community of people who hack and modify their Teslas. If you look around I’m sure you could find out the info you need.

        2 votes
      2. Heichou (edited ) Link Parent
        Y'know I can actually echo this sentiment. I do basic maintenence on my car all the time but I have a feeling jacking up a tesla and replacing brakes or a rotor wouldn't quite be as easy as it is...

        Y'know I can actually echo this sentiment. I do basic maintenence on my car all the time but I have a feeling jacking up a tesla and replacing brakes or a rotor wouldn't quite be as easy as it is on my 02 Grand Am. I just yearn for a car that's nice, but also serves a purpose

        1 vote