2 votes

Hacker News is unable to discuss the difficult subject that Hacker news is unable to discuss difficult subjects

Topic removed by site admin

14 comments

  1. [6]
    tomf
    Link
    All of the Mueller threads were removed. This isn't about the subject matter being 'difficult' -- its about following the posting guidelines for the site (adjusted to proper case) On-topic:...

    All of the Mueller threads were removed. This isn't about the subject matter being 'difficult' -- its about following the posting guidelines for the site (adjusted to proper case)

    • On-topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity.
    • Off-topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on tv news, it's probably off-topic.

    (source)

    I'm not even sure this thread belongs here.

    5 votes
    1. [4]
      dredmorbius
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      Addresed directly in the thread: There are numerous specific isues in the report concerning Internet, Web, Silicon Valley, and related technologies, firms, practices, and concerns, most especially...

      Addresed directly in the thread:

      There are numerous specific isues in the report concerning Internet, Web, Silicon Valley, and related technologies, firms, practices, and concerns, most especially Facebook and Twitter.
      Among other outcomes, the consequences and repercussions are all but certain to include massive changes to self- and externally-imposed industry regulation. The Net's age of innocence is over.

      Blanket declarations that the story is off-topic seem at best parlous thin.

      And further: the discussion on the linked post, as memorialised at the Internet Archive, is distinctly free of the spamming [that comment's parent] describe.

      Contrast a current front-page story on ... college football.

      1 vote
      1. [3]
        tomf
        Link Parent
        I would say you can filter most through, 'If they'd cover it on tv news, it's probably off-topic' -- the college football story will not be on the evening news, whereas the Mueller report will be...

        I would say you can filter most through, 'If they'd cover it on tv news, it's probably off-topic' -- the college football story will not be on the evening news, whereas the Mueller report will be dominating the news for the next few weeks.

        While the football story is technically a sports story, its really about concussions.

        You're not new to HN -- you should be more than familiar with the sort of content that is flagged by now.

        2 votes
        1. [2]
          dredmorbius
          Link Parent
          I'm very familiar with it. And in a majority of cases, it is not a problem. That leaves a very problematic minority, however.

          I'm very familiar with it. And in a majority of cases, it is not a problem.

          That leaves a very problematic minority, however.

          1 vote
          1. tomf
            Link Parent
            maybe so -- but its a focused community. There are plenty of other communities (like this one) where political discussions are more than welcome, and often have a lot of overlapping contributors.

            maybe so -- but its a focused community. There are plenty of other communities (like this one) where political discussions are more than welcome, and often have a lot of overlapping contributors.

            2 votes
    2. unknown user
      Link Parent
      Political issues that even lightly (or sometimes not at all) touch tech are routinesly "discussed" on HN. The quote marks because HN is not a place for discussion. It is for agreement: you have to...

      Political issues that even lightly (or sometimes not at all) touch tech are routinesly "discussed" on HN.

      The quote marks because HN is not a place for discussion. It is for agreement: you have to agree Paul Graham, you have to agree moderation and no questions, you have to agree the "typical US middle class male engineer that is mildly concerned with progressive ideals and movements but remove a couple layers of political correctness and lo and behold your average conservative priviledged white male" worldview, and it doesn't end there. But don't do these, and you are uncivil, your criticism is ad hominem, and you are perpetrating flamewars.

      I am happy I mostly left that place. The links are good, but I use Hacker Newsletter which picks the best ones. There are still good comments, and I do read them time to time, but I don't participate anymore.

      1 vote
  2. [4]
    Deimos
    Link
    Please don't use Tildes as a "side channel" for other sites. It's fine if there's something truly noteworthy or significant happening, but not just in response to moderation decisions, getting...

    Please don't use Tildes as a "side channel" for other sites. It's fine if there's something truly noteworthy or significant happening, but not just in response to moderation decisions, getting undeservedly downvoted, etc.

    5 votes
    1. [3]
      dredmorbius
      Link Parent
      Given that the site itself doesn't care to discuss the matter, side channels are all that is. The question of how to have difficult discussions is one that online fora need to face. At a meta...

      Given that the site itself doesn't care to discuss the matter, side channels are all that is.

      The question of how to have difficult discussions is one that online fora need to face. At a meta level, this includes Tildes.

      Again, the matter at HN itself extends well beyond this post, story, or topic.

      1. [2]
        Deimos
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        I agree that it could be a reasonable topic, but I don't think you framed this one in that way. It could make a decent discussion to talk about what makes HN behave in this way so often...

        I agree that it could be a reasonable topic, but I don't think you framed this one in that way. It could make a decent discussion to talk about what makes HN behave in this way so often (mechanics? culture? something else?) and/or how we can avoid having similar issues on Tildes, but this seemed a lot more like "my post got flagged and I'm unhappy about it".

        It also has so many layers of indirection involved that I'm not even entirely sure what you were trying to direct attention to. This is a link to an archive.org copy of an HN post that links to a Mastodon toot that links to an archive.org copy of an HN post. It's very possible that some of the flags on your HN post came from submitting such a strange thing, and not even the subject matter itself.

        2 votes
        1. dredmorbius
          Link Parent
          The post in question initially was not in fact mine. The meta post on what topics HN cannot discuss was mine. The problem generally is one I've tracked on HN for some years (mostly at G+, where...

          The post in question initially was not in fact mine.

          The meta post on what topics HN cannot discuss was mine.

          The problem generally is one I've tracked on HN for some years (mostly at G+, where ... the posts are themselves no longer available publicly, though I have archives).

          I'd intended the meaning in your 2nd sentence, though with an implied criticism: what is it about HN that makes the site unable to discuss difficult, and often political, topics.

          1 vote
  3. [2]
    alyaza
    Link
    i feel like this is a problem most communities have in general, where they have specific trouble subjects that never go well, but all the efforts that try to address that then also recursively go...

    i feel like this is a problem most communities have in general, where they have specific trouble subjects that never go well, but all the efforts that try to address that then also recursively go poorly because they end up just becoming proxies for the same sentiments people express when the actual topic itself is being discussed.

    1 vote
    1. dredmorbius
      Link Parent
      Many, though not all. Reddit has TheoryOfReddit, beta, and AskTheAdmins, though TBF it also has SRS. HN seem to be following the Slashdot principle of declaring metadiscussion off-topic. I've made...

      Many, though not all.

      Reddit has TheoryOfReddit, beta, and AskTheAdmins, though TBF it also has SRS.

      HN seem to be following the Slashdot principle of declaring metadiscussion off-topic.

      I've made a point of not commenting on negative treatment of my own posts, as a rule, this being a notable exception.

  4. nic
    Link
    https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

    https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

    On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity.

    Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic.

    1 vote
  5. dredmorbius
    Link
    Post inquiring about flagged Mueller report post is flagged.

    Post inquiring about flagged Mueller report post is flagged.