14 votes

Opera Reborn 3: No modern browser is perfect, but this may be as close as it gets

33 comments

  1. [4]
    Bal
    Link
    Absolutely no way I'm using a closed-source Chinese-owned browser.

    Absolutely no way I'm using a closed-source Chinese-owned browser.

    30 votes
    1. [3]
      zmk5
      Link Parent
      I thought it was owned by a Norwegian company?

      I thought it was owned by a Norwegian company?

      2 votes
      1. Staross
        Link Parent
        It used to, Opera people are making Vivaldi now.

        It used to, Opera people are making Vivaldi now.

        17 votes
  2. [18]
    Elronnd
    Link
    Still not using presto.

    Still not using presto.

    9 votes
    1. [11]
      Micycle_the_Bichael
      Link Parent
      Genuinely asking, why does that matter? Googling a bit I see presto is the old opera proprietary browser engine, and it is now built on Google's blink engine. Is the dislike because it is a...

      Genuinely asking, why does that matter? Googling a bit I see presto is the old opera proprietary browser engine, and it is now built on Google's blink engine. Is the dislike because it is a google-built engine? Is it something else? Is it something casual browser users would notice or mostly just power users? I really don't know much about browsers and browser engines to figure out why not using presto is bad.

      7 votes
      1. [9]
        lionirdeadman
        Link Parent
        I think it's more so that we're slowly going towards a monopoly on the browser engines. Basically it's down to : Gecko/Servo Webkit Blink Before we also had : Presto Trident (Internet explorer)...

        I think it's more so that we're slowly going towards a monopoly on the browser engines.

        Basically it's down to :

        • Gecko/Servo
        • Webkit
        • Blink

        Before we also had :

        • Presto
        • Trident (Internet explorer)
        • EdgeHTML (Edge)

        We've killed 50% of our engines in the last decade basically. Sure, we can say it's good that now all of our engines are open source but if nobody can keep up with the browser engines, we're only inching more and more towards making the web ecosystem proprietary to those engines rather than using standards that anyone can follow. We can see that more and more with websites basically only working on Chrome.

        14 votes
        1. [8]
          Diff
          Link Parent
          Aren't Webkit and Blink still pretty closely blood-related, too?

          Aren't Webkit and Blink still pretty closely blood-related, too?

          2 votes
          1. lionirdeadman
            Link Parent
            Really? no. Not only has it been 6 years as @oden mentioned but Blink uses the V8 javascript engine instead of JavascriptCore and the Chromium ecosystem is really different at this point. At the...

            Really? no. Not only has it been 6 years as @oden mentioned but Blink uses the V8 javascript engine instead of JavascriptCore and the Chromium ecosystem is really different at this point. At the core, they are "similar-ish" but in practical use, they are very different.

            The most popular webkit is Safari and Blink is Chromium, they are two very different beasts at this point both for compatibility and speed.

            7 votes
          2. [2]
            Wes
            Link Parent
            Well if Trident and EdgeHTML count as different engines, then I'd argue so do Blink and WebKit.

            Well if Trident and EdgeHTML count as different engines, then I'd argue so do Blink and WebKit.

            2 votes
            1. Diff
              Link Parent
              Different engines, but I'd say Edge and Trident are even more closely related personally because there are actual examples of their lack of diversity slapping them both upside the head with the...

              Different engines, but I'd say Edge and Trident are even more closely related personally because there are actual examples of their lack of diversity slapping them both upside the head with the same exploits. I don't know if any exist for Webkit/Blink which is why I'm asking if they suffer from the same problem.

              1 vote
          3. [3]
            oden
            Link Parent
            It was forked from WebKit, but it's been almost 6 years now so I'd be surprised if the code (for new features at least) isn't significantly different.

            It was forked from WebKit, but it's been almost 6 years now so I'd be surprised if the code (for new features at least) isn't significantly different.

            1. dblohm7
              Link Parent
              The size of a browser engine's codebase alone pretty much guarantees that there is still a lot of shared code between the two.

              The size of a browser engine's codebase alone pretty much guarantees that there is still a lot of shared code between the two.

              2 votes
            2. Diff
              Link Parent
              Talking out my butt here but they're probably still architecturally very similar, right? EdgeHTML was very different from Trident, but they shared enough DNA that quite a few of the same exploits...

              Talking out my butt here but they're probably still architecturally very similar, right? EdgeHTML was very different from Trident, but they shared enough DNA that quite a few of the same exploits affected both.

              1 vote
      2. Elronnd
        Link Parent
        What the sibling said; also, there was some really solid tech there, presto used to be faster than all the competition.

        What the sibling said; also, there was some really solid tech there, presto used to be faster than all the competition.

        4 votes
    2. [6]
      KapteinB
      Link Parent
      And it never will. Presto is dead.

      And it never will. Presto is dead.

      1 vote
      1. [5]
        Elronnd
        Link Parent
        Last I checked, there were still some patches to it being thrown around.

        Last I checked, there were still some patches to it being thrown around.

        1. [4]
          KapteinB
          Link Parent
          Yep, as recently as February 2016.

          Yep, as recently as February 2016.

          3 votes
          1. [3]
            Elronnd
            Link Parent
            I meant unofficial patches for the leaked source code.

            I meant unofficial patches for the leaked source code.

            1. [2]
              KapteinB
              Link Parent
              Ah, I didn't know anyone was working on that. That's neat. Got any links?

              Ah, I didn't know anyone was working on that. That's neat. Got any links?

              1 vote
              1. Elronnd
                Link Parent
                I don't think so. I looked into it briefly a while back, but lost interest. You'll probably find something if you google around, though.

                I don't think so. I looked into it briefly a while back, but lost interest. You'll probably find something if you google around, though.

  3. [6]
    Comment deleted by author
    Link
    1. [2]
      PopeRigby
      Link Parent
      I really like Firefox because of its vast quantity of customization options. Between about:config (advanced settings) and userChrome (in-depth CSS and JavaScript customization for Firefox's UI), I...

      I really like Firefox because of its vast quantity of customization options. Between about:config (advanced settings) and userChrome (in-depth CSS and JavaScript customization for Firefox's UI), I have a lot to mess around with and really make the browser work for me. Other browsers are too locked down for my tastes.

      17 votes
      1. Amarok
        Link Parent
        I feel the same. When quantum dropped most of my issues with firefox disappeared. At this point all of the plugins have adapted or been replaced with new ones that have similar functions, so the...

        I feel the same. When quantum dropped most of my issues with firefox disappeared. At this point all of the plugins have adapted or been replaced with new ones that have similar functions, so the rocky part of the transition is over. I seriously doubt any other browser could ever tempt me away from my firefox build - mozilla would have to screw firefox up to get me to switch at this point.

        6 votes
    2. [2]
      KapteinB
      Link Parent
      Firefox' Panorama feature revolutionised my workflow. Then they removed it, because very few users actually used it… Then several users reimplemented it as extensions, because really, this feature...

      What cool and life changing abilities have I been sleeping on when I just use my browser to browse?

      Firefox' Panorama feature revolutionised my workflow.

      Then they removed it, because very few users actually used it…

      Then several users reimplemented it as extensions, because really, this feature is the best.

      6 votes
      1. unknown user
        Link Parent
        Ugh, I loved Panorama so much. It brought sanity to my browser workspace of dozens upon dozens of tabs.

        Ugh, I loved Panorama so much. It brought sanity to my browser workspace of dozens upon dozens of tabs.

        2 votes
    3. CrazedGeek
      Link Parent
      I'm a big fan of Vivaldi, although since it's halfway-closed source it might not be the best browser perceived security-wise. It has a lot of features out-of-the-box that I find a bit too valuable...

      I'm a big fan of Vivaldi, although since it's halfway-closed source it might not be the best browser perceived security-wise. It has a lot of features out-of-the-box that I find a bit too valuable (side tabs, page capturing, lots of behavior customization) and it still feels like a slightly-older browser in some respects (I like having a status bar...).

      4 votes
  4. [5]
    jgb
    Link
    I will not use browsers with WebKit User-Agent strings for general purpose browsing. Fight the monoculture!

    I will not use browsers with WebKit User-Agent strings for general purpose browsing. Fight the monoculture!

    5 votes
    1. unknown user
      Link Parent
      User-Agent strings are honestly a mess, and should be completely deprecated at this point as 99%+ of all internet traffic is sent from browsers which don't obey the original intent of the...

      User-Agent strings are honestly a mess, and should be completely deprecated at this point as 99%+ of all internet traffic is sent from browsers which don't obey the original intent of the User-Agent string, which had questionable intent in the first place, as a way to prevent or promote certain UA's from performing certain functions—completely against the principles of an open & equal internet.

      8 votes
    2. [3]
      lionirdeadman
      Link Parent
      Webkit? You mean Blink?

      Webkit? You mean Blink?

      3 votes
      1. [2]
        jgb
        Link Parent
        Possibly I do, yeah.

        Possibly I do, yeah.

        1. lionirdeadman
          Link Parent
          Blink is Chromium, Webkit is Safari. Atleast, those are the most popular with each :P

          Blink is Chromium, Webkit is Safari. Atleast, those are the most popular with each :P

          1 vote
  5. aymm
    Link
    I really want a Vivaldi, but based on Gecko. Guess I'm stuck with FF. (Stuck is a strong word though, it is a good browser)

    I really want a Vivaldi, but based on Gecko. Guess I'm stuck with FF. (Stuck is a strong word though, it is a good browser)

    1 vote