27 votes

Reddit's 'Manosphere' and the Challenge of Quantifying Hate

45 comments

  1. [15]
    Dogyote Link
    I've been wondering how many of the toxic "manosphere" users are just kids, like 12 to 18 years old. There can't be that many angry adults, right?

    I've been wondering how many of the toxic "manosphere" users are just kids, like 12 to 18 years old. There can't be that many angry adults, right?

    17 votes
    1. [11]
      dubteedub Link Parent
      It really depends on what subreddit you are referring to. /r/Braincels and /r/Incels definetely skews younger. I would say their average age is older teens and younger twenties judging from their...

      It really depends on what subreddit you are referring to.

      /r/Braincels and /r/Incels definetely skews younger. I would say their average age is older teens and younger twenties judging from their selfies and discussions on school, etc. On the other hand, /r/theredpill and /r/MGTOW are definitely an older crowd, I would say more likely to be in their 30s. They often talk of how they are trying to pick up women in bars / clubs or how they are divorced and "those dirty cheating whore" ex-wives.

      Hell, TRP's founder was an actual state legislator in New Hampshire.

      I think it is easy to write off a lot of the hate and bigotry rampant online is just edgy kids being kids that will surely grow out of it. Unfortunately, that is just not the case. This is a serious, systemic issue that covers a broad range of angry men around the world.

      36 votes
      1. [10]
        Douglas Link Parent
        Added to that are the ones who deem themselves as centrists, which seem to spend more time picking apart women's rights, trans rights, lgbtqia, etc. than anything else. And because the only types...

        Added to that are the ones who deem themselves as centrists, which seem to spend more time picking apart women's rights, trans rights, lgbtqia, etc. than anything else. And because the only types of people who are willing to dogpile on those conversations are those on the right, I often see the centrists slowly ebb their way in along with them.

        Several years ago I decided to friend-breakup with two people who were anti-feminist and transphobic, and would just not budge whatsoever on either talking points to the point of intolerance and throwing hurtful comments my way when I'd cornered them in a debate. I know their reddit accounts and check in on them every now and again, and they've both slowly fallen into pitfalls of equating fascists to anti-facsists, seeing homosexuality as a mental disorder, etc., all while touting themselves as "not wanting to hurt feelings, these are just facts."

        17 votes
        1. dubteedub Link Parent
          It is a cliche of right wing extremists like Sargon of Akkad and other altright / Dark Enlightenment personaliries to claim themselves to be centrists or "Classical Liberals" while esposuing...

          It is a cliche of right wing extremists like Sargon of Akkad and other altright / Dark Enlightenment personaliries to claim themselves to be centrists or "Classical Liberals" while esposuing extremist, hate filled views.

          It helps them appeal to unwitting and naive men and convince them to listen to their propaganda, as well as not so subtly claim that their sexist, racist, or islamophobic views are normal and wide spread.

          18 votes
        2. [8]
          Artrax Link Parent
          equating fascists and anti-fascists and seeing mental disorder ist not centrism, it's right wing extremism.

          equating fascists and anti-fascists and seeing mental disorder ist not centrism, it's right wing extremism.

          13 votes
          1. [7]
            Douglas Link Parent
            Absolutely, which is why I'd only said they deem themselves as centrists. I don't know that I've ever encountered a true centrist/am not sure what that would look like, but it feels like it's...

            Absolutely, which is why I'd only said they deem themselves as centrists. I don't know that I've ever encountered a true centrist/am not sure what that would look like, but it feels like it's either a label right-wingers apply to themselves as a defense mechanism on account they're too afraid to express their true feelings, or just a label they use to portray themselves as above party politics, despite soliciting obviously extremist right-wing ideas.

            15 votes
            1. [6]
              Loire Link Parent
              Hi. I'm probably a "true" centrist. Although with the continued shift of the overton window what might have been considered centrism is continuously moving into the American left.

              Hi. I'm probably a "true" centrist. Although with the continued shift of the overton window what might have been considered centrism is continuously moving into the American left.

              5 votes
              1. [3]
                dubteedub Link Parent
                GIven how far extremists and nationalists like Trump, Bannon, the Tea Party and the Koch brothers have pushed the Republican party to the right, I am going to strongly disagree with you on your...

                GIven how far extremists and nationalists like Trump, Bannon, the Tea Party and the Koch brothers have pushed the Republican party to the right, I am going to strongly disagree with you on your assessment of the current political landscape in America.

                “The Republican Party leans much farther right than most traditional conservative parties in Western Europe and Canada, according to an analysis of their election manifestos. It is more extreme than Britain’s Independence Party and France’s National Rally (formerly the National Front), which some consider far-right populist parties. The Democratic Party, in contrast, is positioned closer to mainstream liberal parties.”

                Sure the Democratic party has shifted a bit to the left in recent years, but there is no comparison to the hardline and extremists stances of the GOP.

                Hell the Democrats signature legislation of recent years the Affordable Care Act was initially supported by the Koch brothers as a middle ground policy based on Romneycare in Massachusetts.

                I am honestly baffled that you could think the Overrton window is pushing left when white supremacists and the altright have gained such national prominence, we have a President trying to ban Muslims from entering the country, and migrant chidren separated from parents at the border and out in cages.

                12 votes
                1. Macil Link Parent
                  I think Loire meant that America has changed such that people who used to have been considered centrists are now considered liberal (assuming they kept the same opinions).

                  I think Loire meant that America has changed such that people who used to have been considered centrists are now considered liberal (assuming they kept the same opinions).

                  13 votes
                2. Loire Link Parent
                  See @Macil's response. Those qualities considered "moderate" increasingly belong to the liberal side of American politics as conservatives/Republicans rush to the extreme right.

                  See @Macil's response.

                  Those qualities considered "moderate" increasingly belong to the liberal side of American politics as conservatives/Republicans rush to the extreme right.

                  7 votes
              2. [2]
                Douglas Link Parent
                Oh man, I hadn't considered how off-center American politics have become over time. Didn't Shapiro recently assume a British conservative was liberal? I fully admit I am unfamiliar with what's...

                Oh man, I hadn't considered how off-center American politics have become over time. Didn't Shapiro recently assume a British conservative was liberal? I fully admit I am unfamiliar with what's considered American left versus a more global left.

                Can you give some examples of beliefs you consider to be on the left and right?

                7 votes
                1. Loire Link Parent
                  Globally? Or American scale? Generally Speaking: Left: Higher taxes More/better public services Universal healthcare Better Public Education More regulation Expansive welfare system Empathetic...

                  Globally? Or American scale?

                  Generally Speaking:

                  Left:

                  • Higher taxes
                  • More/better public services
                  • Universal healthcare
                  • Better Public Education
                  • More regulation
                  • Expansive welfare system
                  • Empathetic policies.
                  • Legislated equality
                  • Unionization/support for labour
                  • Atheistic or less spiritual

                  Right:

                  • Lower taxes
                  • Less regulations (more "freedoms')
                  • Free market principles
                  • Personal responsibility
                  • More "choice" in healthcare/education/services.
                  • "Tough on crime"
                  • Laissez-faire equality
                  • Disdain for unionization/support for ownership
                  • Traditionalist and/or religious

                  Now we all know that, especially in America, many of these beliefs have bled out or been discarded. Republicans certainly aren't balancing any budgets or taking any personal responsibility. We are also seeing a period of growth in the extremes of both left and right politics skewing. But this is a small list of qualities I would personally assign ti the traditional wings of the political scale.

                  5 votes
    2. spit-evil-olive-tips Link Parent
      There's probably a fair number of teenagers and young adults, but I think that makes it worse than if this was nothing but jaded 30-somethings discussing their romantic troubles. Children are...

      There's probably a fair number of teenagers and young adults, but I think that makes it worse than if this was nothing but jaded 30-somethings discussing their romantic troubles.

      Children are information sponges, they'll soak up whatever they're given. And sex ed / "relationship ed" in US schools is hugely lacking. I think there's a very real risk that a lot of kids will go on to reddit looking for relatively harmless stuff like how to ask their crush out, advice on kissing, or whatever, get "redpilled" at a very young age, and grow up with a severely distorted picture of what real adult relationships are like.

      15 votes
    3. nothis Link Parent
      First, wishful thinking, there's lots of angry adults. Secondly, isn't that even more frighting? You're building a lot of personality in your teen years, and while many people leave that behind as...

      First, wishful thinking, there's lots of angry adults.

      Secondly, isn't that even more frighting? You're building a lot of personality in your teen years, and while many people leave that behind as they grow older, it stays in your mind. I've seen examples of incel forum type posts that were basically blaming their inability to find girlfriends on humiliating highschool experiences. It's tradition that you overcome this stuff but now we have a community wallowing in it. That can't be healthy.

      10 votes
    4. ammut Link Parent
      I would bet a satoshi that you're right. Children and trolls.

      I would bet a satoshi that you're right. Children and trolls.

      1 vote
  2. [2]
    Atvelonis (edited ) Link
    I appreciate the general message that this is sending, but it doesn't mention any of the subreddits that exist to counter the misogynistic take that /r/TheRedPill and other such communities have...

    I appreciate the general message that this is sending, but it doesn't mention any of the subreddits that exist to counter the misogynistic take that /r/TheRedPill and other such communities have taken. My favorite one is /r/MensLib, which takes a far more nuanced and less circlejerk-y approach to any and all discussions of "men's issues" than /r/MensRights et al. From the sidebar:

    Welcome! /r/MensLib is a community to explore and address men's issues in a positive and solutions-focused way. Through discussing the male gender role, providing mutual support, raising awareness on men's issues, and promoting efforts that address them, we hope to create active progress on issues men face, and to build a healthier, kinder, and more inclusive masculinity. We recognize that men's issues often intersect with race, sexual orientation and identity, disability, socioeconomic status, and other axes of identity, and encourage open discussion of these considerations. We consider ourselves a pro-feminist community.

    Emphasis mine. This is a productive way to engage in discussion about these topics, yet it gets staggeringly little media attention, or even from Redditors themselves. Even many users on Reddit who do not actively participate in toxic subs still identify more strongly with the kneejerk reactions and paranoid rants about women that happen in redpilled communities than they do with the legitimate, level-headed, and thoughtful discourse that exists in bluepilled ones. Hence, /r/MensLib has 70,000 subscribers, and /r/MensRights has 225,000. The later is older, certainly, but the author of this article is still completely right to state that the tone of men's issues has shifted in the past few years, and not for the better. Redditors make it worse by turning a blind eye.

    17 votes
    1. Tygrak Link Parent
      r/MensLib really is great, it is one of the few good subreddits where quality conversation actually happens.

      r/MensLib really is great, it is one of the few good subreddits where quality conversation actually happens.

      6 votes
  3. [3]
    dubteedub (edited ) Link
    Here is the direct link to the study for anyone interested in checking it out. Exploring Misogyny across the Manosphere in Reddit I certainly have felt that misogynist and sexist comments have...

    Here is the direct link to the study for anyone interested in checking it out.

    This analysis was conducted on 6 million posts, from 300K conversations created between 2011 and December 2018. Our results shows increasing patterns on misogynistic content and users as well as violent attitudes, corroborating existing theories of feminist studies that the amount of misogyny, hostility and violence is steadily increasing in the manosphere.

    I certainly have felt that misogynist and sexist comments have gotten more prominent over the last few years on Reddit, so it is great to have some proof to validate those feelings.


    I think this is a solid article, but particularly think the concluding paragraph here is important.

    Understanding the patterns of misogyny online shouldn’t just help people find better ways to put individual hateful users in a time out. It should also give insight into how a young man becomes a misogynist. Vossen once taught courses on gender and gaming at Seneca College in Toronto, where the Toronto van attacker went to school. “I didn’t teach him personally,” she said. “But I had to go and check, because the views he held weren’t uncommon among his peers. There were lots of pro-rape perspectives in their essays.” People who think of men’s rights activists as rare, isolated weirdos aren’t wrong, but they’re missing the point. “There are a thousand steps before incel, and none of them are good,” Vossen says. Tracing the steps of radicalization might someday help people walk away.

    I would really like to see some follow-up research that details the manosphere progression on Reddit. Similar to how folks have detailed YouTube's altright pathway of taking users from altlite folks like Rogan / Peterson to white nationalists and conspiracy theorists, I would love for a future study to track where the average manosphere users post/comment over time and see how those connections across subreddits were made.


    One last comment I have is that despite the massive amounts of data included in this study, it only covers MGTOW, badwomensanatomy, incelswithouthate, inceltears, incelsinaction, braincels, and trufemcels. It is notably missing reddit's largest pro-rape forum /r/TheRedPill, among others.

    13 votes
    1. [2]
      Bullmaestro (edited ) Link Parent
      I used to follow TRP about five years ago when a redditor recommended I go there. But my initial impression of the place was like a mix of a self-improvement board and r/seduction. Then I noticed...

      I used to follow TRP about five years ago when a redditor recommended I go there. But my initial impression of the place was like a mix of a self-improvement board and r/seduction. Then I noticed that the community was becoming increasingly belligerent. The point where I decided to leave was when I got messages from others in the community that were just chewing me out with offensive language like they were some wannabe drill sergeant.

      A year later, I met a girl on Okcupid (who later became my colleague) who told me about how paranoid the Red Pill community made her, particularly because RooshV was holding a march in a neighbouring city to ours, and as I later learned, that guy is a notorious spousal rape advocate.

      Also, wasn't expecting the Open University article to label 'blackpill' as an example of a misogynistic term. It means a truth so harsh and damning that it's soul crushing, and it's been attributed to any claims that women really do go after the 10/10 male model looks and chiselled jawlines you often see associated with chads.

      4 votes
      1. dubteedub Link Parent
        Thats a bit of misrepresentation of what blackpills really mean on incel boards. Blackpills are often also called suifuel or suicide fuel and cover a range of topics. Its not just a belief that...

        Also, wasn't expecting the Open University article to label 'blackpill' as an example of a misogynistic term. It means a truth so harsh and damning that it's soul crushing, and it's been attributed to any claims that women really do go after the 10/10 male model looks and chiselled jawlines you often see associated with chads.

        Thats a bit of misrepresentation of what blackpills really mean on incel boards. Blackpills are often also called suifuel or suicide fuel and cover a range of topics.

        Its not just a belief that women prefer 10/10 guys. They think that women only go for "chads" and that young women "ride the cock carousel" until they settle down for a "beta" who will marry them and pay for their stuff all while still cheating on the "betas."

        Other black pills are that you will never be laid because your skull size is the wrong shape, you have the wrong chin, or you are the wrong race. This then leads them down a rabbit hole of spiraled thinking like well if ill never get laid, ill never amount to anything, and if ill never amount to anything I may as well kill myself or go oit taking down some "stacies" and "chads" with me.

        The "black pills" they push on eachother present an entirely warped sense of reality that is hateful and misogynist.


        Im on mobile now, so hard to pull up some examples for you, but Contrapoints showcases a ton on her "Incels" video here

        https://youtu.be/fD2briZ6fB0

        12 votes
  4. [10]
    TheJorro Link
    So... what's the over/under for how long it takes the reddit admins to ban a bunch of these subreddits now that there's an article written about it in a major publication?

    So... what's the over/under for how long it takes the reddit admins to ban a bunch of these subreddits now that there's an article written about it in a major publication?

    8 votes
    1. [9]
      Douglas Link Parent
      They've actually been surprisingly active for the past week in banning a few toxic communities. While I'm sure the quarantine of t_d was meant to just be temporary damage control by spez, my hope...

      They've actually been surprisingly active for the past week in banning a few toxic communities.

      While I'm sure the quarantine of t_d was meant to just be temporary damage control by spez, my hope is that community will just fold in on themselves with outrage and hatred and move themselves towards a full ban.

      10 votes
      1. [8]
        Bullmaestro Link Parent
        I'd be fine with Reddit's admins quarantining communities for offensive/violent comments if they enforced their guidelines equally. r/ChapoTrapHouse is probably just as if not more problematic...

        I'd be fine with Reddit's admins quarantining communities for offensive/violent comments if they enforced their guidelines equally.

        r/ChapoTrapHouse is probably just as if not more problematic than t_d was. On the SRC subreddit there have been frequent posts of CTH users inciting violence and harassing other users. Yet they're not quarantined...

        5 votes
        1. [3]
          alyaza Link Parent
          chapo was literally almost banned outright not even three months ago for the heinous crime of users expressing the take "kill slave owners" (which is an objectively good, reasonable take) so i...

          r/ChapoTrapHouse is probably just as if not more problematic than t_d was. On the SRC subreddit there have been frequent posts of CTH users inciting violence and harassing other users. Yet they're not quarantined...

          chapo was literally almost banned outright not even three months ago for the heinous crime of users expressing the take "kill slave owners" (which is an objectively good, reasonable take) so i don't think this line of criticism works anymore, sorry.

          20 votes
          1. Douglas Link Parent
            Remember that spez sees himself as "someone in charge" or "at least not a slave" if society collapses. The two options imply to me that he sees himself as someone who would own slaves in a...

            Remember that spez sees himself as "someone in charge" or "at least not a slave" if society collapses.

            The two options imply to me that he sees himself as someone who would own slaves in a post-collapse society, which is why he took special offense to a community expressing they would kill slave owners.

            (...half /s)

            15 votes
          2. Bullmaestro Link Parent
            Reddit is also the kind of place where you can be site-wide banned for posting the US Navy Seals copypasta.

            Reddit is also the kind of place where you can be site-wide banned for posting the US Navy Seals copypasta.

        2. [2]
          TheJorro Link Parent
          I wouldn't trust SRC to give a reasonable viewpoint of any situation. From what I've seen of CTH, nothing they did is in the same realm as what t_d did. Remember: t_d actually got someone killed...

          I wouldn't trust SRC to give a reasonable viewpoint of any situation. From what I've seen of CTH, nothing they did is in the same realm as what t_d did. Remember: t_d actually got someone killed and many people physically hurt.

          13 votes
          1. Rez Link Parent
            While CTH isn't that bad, they are still a pretty toxic subreddit that frequently causes moderation issues. Users there feel emboldened to be toxic and threatening elsewhere due to a...

            While CTH isn't that bad, they are still a pretty toxic subreddit that frequently causes moderation issues. Users there feel emboldened to be toxic and threatening elsewhere due to a self-righteous attitude; that any and all toxicity is justifiable in the fight against the far right. SRC gets a lot of stuff wrong with a lot of loons trying to fabricate or stir up drama but they aren't far from the mark with CTH.

            5 votes
        3. Fdashstop Link Parent
          CTH isn't that great and all, but please don't trust SRC.

          On the SRC subreddit

          CTH isn't that great and all, but please don't trust SRC.

          10 votes
        4. Deva Link Parent
          While I agree with the notion that CTH members are pain in the ass to deal with (especially when cop related post comes up), you really shouldn't trust anything that comes out of SRC. That sub is...

          While I agree with the notion that CTH members are pain in the ass to deal with (especially when cop related post comes up), you really shouldn't trust anything that comes out of SRC. That sub is just a facade to whine about "free speech" and mod-abuse which is a thin veneer to promote their own circlejerk and rule breaking behavior.

          5 votes
  5. [9]
    vakieh Link
    It doesn't really inspire hope in a meaningful conversation when the article decides to go for outrage culture with: I mean, yes there are definitely radicals in there and the culture is...

    It doesn't really inspire hope in a meaningful conversation when the article decides to go for outrage culture with:

    Manosphere members might think of themselves as “involuntarily celibate,” like the man who drove a van into Toronto pedestrians last year

    I mean, yes there are definitely radicals in there and the culture is horrifying, but what exactly do you expect to gain by jumping to the most hyperbolic position possible and preventing any sort of connection or middle ground to prevent that radicalisation?

    2 votes
    1. [8]
      Algernon_Asimov Link Parent
      If members of the "manosphere" just sat in their stereotypical basements and exchanged memes with each other, we wouldn't care about them much. It's only because those online communities have...

      If members of the "manosphere" just sat in their stereotypical basements and exchanged memes with each other, we wouldn't care about them much. It's only because those online communities have induced people to action across the broader internet and to violence in the real world that those "manosphere" communities matter. This example and others like it are therefore extremely relevant to this discussion.

      10 votes
      1. [7]
        vakieh Link Parent
        This seems like a cause for the issue rather than something unrelated to the situation. Nobody seems to care about mental health problems until someone with those problems does something violent...

        we wouldn't care about them much

        This seems like a cause for the issue rather than something unrelated to the situation. Nobody seems to care about mental health problems until someone with those problems does something violent to someone else, but that doesn't mean you introduce a bunch of people with a mental illness as 'here are a group of people with schizophrenia, like that person who shot somebody thinking they were a hallucination'. That's not in any way helpful to anybody, it just gets article clicks and shares.

        3 votes
        1. [6]
          alyaza Link Parent
          calling it purely a product of mental illness is disingenuous framing at best and actively ridiculous and ignorant of what causes such violence at worst. most of these people are not doing these...

          Nobody seems to care about mental health problems until someone with those problems does something violent to someone else, but that doesn't mean you introduce a bunch of people with a mental illness as 'here are a group of people with schizophrenia, like that person who shot somebody thinking they were a hallucination'.

          calling it purely a product of mental illness is disingenuous framing at best and actively ridiculous and ignorant of what causes such violence at worst. most of these people are not doing these things explicitly because they're "mentally ill" (although some people would say that the only way they could commit such crimes is because of underlying mental illness), they're doing it because they're engaged in the same sort of brinksmanship that pushes people on 4chan and 8chan to shoot up mosques and synagogues in the name of Deus Vult or establishing a white homeland and ending the (((Jewish Cabal))) which controls the world. if incel spaces didn't consist almost entirely of disaffected people whose idea of the female sex is that they're literal subhumans, whose idea of justice for what they "do" to men is rape and murder and disfiguration, and who think the only solution to the problems females bring is to instate a program of sex slavery and state enforced girlfriends or something else, you would absolutely not see this sort of pathological, consistent pattern of violence among them as a group of people. we can acknowledge that mental illness is a part of the problem, but let's not act like the main driving feature isn't the toxicity of incel spaces and the ideas that fester and constitute normality in them and that removing that aspect wouldn't cause the level of violence that has taken place because of incels so far to plummet.

          5 votes
          1. [5]
            Algernon_Asimov Link Parent
            umm... @vakieh didn't say that misogynist violence is a product of mental illness. He was using mental illness as an analogy. He was comparing the two separate situations of introducing incels by...

            calling it purely a product of mental illness is disingenuous framing at best and actively ridiculous and ignorant of what causes such violence at worst.

            umm... @vakieh didn't say that misogynist violence is a product of mental illness.

            He was using mental illness as an analogy. He was comparing the two separate situations of introducing incels by talking about their real-world violence, and introducing people with mental illness by talking about their real-world violence. He was saying that, similarly to us not caring about incels until they commit violence, we also don't care about mentally ill people until they commit violence - but we don't introduce schizophrenics by talking about their violent offenders, so we should do the same thing for incels: don't introduce them by talking about their violent offenders, either.

            I may disagree with him, but I understand what I'm disagreeing with.

            5 votes
            1. [4]
              alyaza Link Parent
              i really feel like you shouldn't speak on his behalf and assert that you alone know exactly what he's saying or that everybody else is misinterpreting it personally considering that he's perfectly...

              i really feel like you shouldn't speak on his behalf and assert that you alone know exactly what he's saying or that everybody else is misinterpreting it personally considering that he's perfectly capable of responding on his own and making that case himself, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯¯

              3 votes
              1. [3]
                Algernon_Asimov Link Parent
                I've been on the wrong side of these misunderstandings too often on Tildes. A lot of people here don't seem to recognise analogies or metaphors. It's a common problem on Tildes (so common that I...

                I've been on the wrong side of these misunderstandings too often on Tildes. A lot of people here don't seem to recognise analogies or metaphors. It's a common problem on Tildes (so common that I think of it as "The Literalism Problem of Tildes"). I've seen it often enough by now to know what it looks like.

                And, if I can help clear up one of these misunderstandings, I will.

                Keep in mind that sometimes people just give up discussing things when they feel like they're not being heard or they're wasting their time. They're not always going to come back to explain themselves - especially when the other party is someone like you or me, who enjoys arguing points to the death. Sometimes they think it's better to just walk away rather than be subjected to yet another of our diatribes.

                3 votes
                1. [2]
                  alyaza Link Parent
                  if you're going to just ignore most of my point i'm not going to waste my time because conversations like this irritate me to no end. please, for your own sake, don't assume literally everybody on...

                  if you're going to just ignore most of my point i'm not going to waste my time because conversations like this irritate me to no end. please, for your own sake, don't assume literally everybody on this website wants you to correct other people on their behalf, because far too often some of you lot seem to assume that everybody on here magically agrees with what you personally think is the right thing to do in this situation and that's not actually the case. maybe you are correct that vakieh's point was misrepresented by me or whatever--however, that does not inherently mean he wants you to intervene in this situation and speak on his behalf about how he feels, and if it were me in this situation being misinterpreted i would want no fucking part of you doing that for me. that's my point.

                  1 vote
                  1. Algernon_Asimov Link Parent
                    I didn't intervene for his sake. I didn't comment for his benefit. I was helping you. Or so I thought. But you don't want my help. Got it.

                    I didn't intervene for his sake. I didn't comment for his benefit. I was helping you. Or so I thought. But you don't want my help. Got it.

                    3 votes
  6. [6]
    spit-evil-olive-tips Link
    I...should not have googled this.

    with a group that spends as much time spewing hate as discussing sex toys like the vajankle

    I...should not have googled this.

    5 votes
    1. MimicSquid Link Parent
      Well... a day where we learn something new is not a day wasted, but I'm not sure what I want to do with the new knowledge I have.

      Well... a day where we learn something new is not a day wasted, but I'm not sure what I want to do with the new knowledge I have.

      4 votes
    2. [4]
      The_Fad Link Parent
      It's an ankle you can fuck, isnt it.

      It's an ankle you can fuck, isnt it.

      4 votes
      1. [3]
        Iliketoast Link Parent
        Close. It's a severed foot with the vagina on top (where the bone would be) so it's not even really a foot fetish thing, it's a serial killer, fuck you in the stab wound fetish.

        Close. It's a severed foot with the vagina on top (where the bone would be) so it's not even really a foot fetish thing, it's a serial killer, fuck you in the stab wound fetish.

        4 votes
        1. Mitijea Link Parent
          I'm getting to the point where the internet (aka "people") really disturbs me. I don't know if I'm just getting old, or what, but I think I'm happier just not knowing stuff like this exists. Man,...

          I'm getting to the point where the internet (aka "people") really disturbs me. I don't know if I'm just getting old, or what, but I think I'm happier just not knowing stuff like this exists. Man, and I really love learning new stuff. It's a quandary.

          3 votes
        2. feigneddork Link Parent
          sigh what ever happened to just having a tenga?

          sigh what ever happened to just having a tenga?