15 votes

Nearly two-thirds of Uber customers don’t tip their drivers

56 comments

  1. [2]
    joelthelion
    (edited )
    Link
    To me the whole point of Uber (well, one of the main selling points, at least) was that you were given a price and that was it. When they added tipping, I assumed it was just as a thank you in...

    To me the whole point of Uber (well, one of the main selling points, at least) was that you were given a price and that was it. When they added tipping, I assumed it was just as a thank you in case of exceptional service. If it's to be viewed as an integral part of the cost, then it degrades the whole Uber experience significantly.

    15 votes
    1. mooseknuckle
      Link Parent
      That's how I feel about it too. Expect for a few services (restaurants, bell hops, etc), I think tipping should be for exceptional service, not a given. Uber is no exception and it's better that way

      That's how I feel about it too. Expect for a few services (restaurants, bell hops, etc), I think tipping should be for exceptional service, not a given. Uber is no exception and it's better that way

  2. [23]
    Comment deleted by author
    Link
    1. [10]
      Greg
      Link Parent
      Is it fair to consider it part of the cost of the service when it wasn't even possible to tip on Uber until two years ago, though? I understand that US tipping culture is a complex issue because...

      Is it fair to consider it part of the cost of the service when it wasn't even possible to tip on Uber until two years ago, though?

      I understand that US tipping culture is a complex issue because it's ingrained as a norm and at the legal level in restaurants, but I'm not sure I'm convinced that applies to a service which was specifically anti-tipping for the majority of its existence.

      19 votes
      1. [10]
        Comment deleted by author
        Link Parent
        1. Greg
          Link Parent
          Quite agreed that they're just a taxi company, and a fairly exploitative one at that (I actually just wrote a longer post about exactly that in another thread), but I think that's somewhat...

          Quite agreed that they're just a taxi company, and a fairly exploitative one at that (I actually just wrote a longer post about exactly that in another thread), but I think that's somewhat tangential to the tipping conversation.

          You said at the top that you'll fight against tipping culture, so I assume we're in broad agreement about its problems. When Uber set up their taxi company, one of the things they essentially said "we're taking the opportunity to redefine the expectations and we're not perpetuating tipping culture" - they even referenced some very valid points on discrimination (I'm sure their marketing team told them to, but that doesn't change the fact that they're true!).

          It seems like there was an honest opportunity for taxis to start becoming a non-tipped service, and I would see that as a good thing. Pushing tips back in doesn't strike me as a step in the right direction.

          6 votes
        2. [6]
          figment
          Link Parent
          we needed one to break the taxi monopoly

          dressed up taxi service

          we needed one to break the taxi monopoly

          4 votes
          1. [5]
            cfabbro
            (edited )
            Link Parent
            What monopoly? Isn't the competition in the taxi industry incredibly fierce pretty much everywhere? At least here in Toronto there were and still are quite a few major taxi companies and dozens of...

            What monopoly? Isn't the competition in the taxi industry incredibly fierce pretty much everywhere?

            At least here in Toronto there were and still are quite a few major taxi companies and dozens of minor/independent ones all competing with each other. Just because before Uber arrived they all followed roughly the same outdated business model, often relied on underhanded/shady business practices, had generally pretty shitty fleets of vehicles + customer service, and actually obeyed the city's employment and taxi license regulations does not mean the situation was a monopoly. Uber may have forced those other companies to improve their services and start addressing the problems that made them less appealing than Uber... but on balance Uber is still a shitty and harmful company, IMO.

            1. joelthelion
              (edited )
              Link Parent
              The problem with regular taxi companies is that consumer information sucks: when you arrive to a new city, it's hard to judge how good the service will be just by looking at a taxi. Last time I...

              The problem with regular taxi companies is that consumer information sucks: when you arrive to a new city, it's hard to judge how good the service will be just by looking at a taxi. Last time I took a taxi in SFO, I ended up with a driver that was almost blind! With Uber, you know you'll get a driver with good ratings and a decent car. That's a major improvement over the status quo.

              4 votes
            2. Loire
              Link Parent
              My significant other (somewhat) recently took a old fashioned cab and the bad service reminded me of what exactly uber brought to the table. From the Houston International Airport to my apartment...

              My significant other (somewhat) recently took a old fashioned cab and the bad service reminded me of what exactly uber brought to the table.

              From the Houston International Airport to my apartment is a straight shot down the freeway. You literally do not have to drive through any neighborhood roads. It costs about $35 dollars USD in an Uber. My significant other arrives in town, and not knowing Houston at all or whether or not she can get data for an Uber, hops in a yellow cab.

              The cab driver took her way off the beaten path through a very bad neighborhood, any local Houstonians on tildes would know as "Gunspoint". He racked up a $60.00 dollar tab for her, and nothing was done about it because she thought that was the normal route and didn't tell me about it until months later.

              What Uber brings to the table is the route is displayed for you right on your screen and the price is given. Even if the driver goes off that route the price will not change. There is no incentive to take rubes out of their way to keep the meter rolling. From a safety perspective your driver's information is right there on the screen and if they do anything wrong you can report them through the app.

              With a traditional cab you had none of that and prior to rideshare no cab company was working on modernizing the system. That's the monopoly that was broken up.

              3 votes
            3. ubergeek
              Link Parent
              Depends. In my area, there were 4 "separate" taxi companies. In reality, they were just different names on the the taxis. It was just one company. With horrific service.

              Isn't the competition in the taxi industry incredibly fierce pretty much everywhere?

              Depends. In my area, there were 4 "separate" taxi companies.

              In reality, they were just different names on the the taxis. It was just one company. With horrific service.

              2 votes
            4. figment
              Link Parent
              Not in Seattle. There's yellow or orange cab, but you were usually at the whim of who you could hail. You'd be forced to pay cash or if you hailed a cab going the wrong way they'd deny the ride...

              What monopoly? Isn't the competition in the taxi industry incredibly fierce pretty much everywhere?

              Not in Seattle. There's yellow or orange cab, but you were usually at the whim of who you could hail.

              You'd be forced to pay cash or if you hailed a cab going the wrong way they'd deny the ride and speed off. Old dirty cars and aggressive drivers.

              Cities, including Seattle, often have a set number of taxi medallions. That creates a fixed market where competition doesn't really matter. The demand vastly outnumbers the available cabs, allowing them to pull shenanigans or never innovate / improve (i.e. apps). It was funny how fast yellow cab came out with an app once Uber showed up.

              1 vote
        3. [2]
          stu2b50
          Link Parent
          I mean, to some extent, while it's evident now that Uber driving is not enough to make a living, it's not like the opportunity to drive for Uber makes drivers and people thinking about being...

          exploit low income workers even further

          I mean, to some extent, while it's evident now that Uber driving is not enough to make a living, it's not like the opportunity to drive for Uber makes drivers and people thinking about being drivers worse off.

          More options is objectively better, and if they weren't driving uber then evidently they would have an even worse occupation/no occupation, and if Uber didn't exists it's not like they'd have a better occupation/a occupation.

          1 vote
          1. spit-evil-olive-tips
            Link Parent
            If people sign up as Uber drivers based on false statements about how much drivers make, then yes, they absolutely can end up worse off. Doubly so if some of those drivers take out subprime car...

            it's not like the opportunity to drive for Uber makes drivers and people thinking about being drivers worse off

            If people sign up as Uber drivers based on false statements about how much drivers make, then yes, they absolutely can end up worse off.

            Doubly so if some of those drivers take out subprime car loans predicated on driving for Uber after hearing the exaggerated claims of how much money they can make.

            5 votes
    2. [11]
      Loire
      Link Parent
      It has nothing to do with what I can afford. Why should I have tip my uber driver? I have been using uber since it entered service and the entire point of the product was that everything is above...

      It has nothing to do with what I can afford. Why should I have tip my uber driver? I have been using uber since it entered service and the entire point of the product was that everything is above board, you can track your driver, track the route and the price is right there on the screen for you. There was never an expectation to tip until the last few years. That was never part.of the deal.

      If the price on the screen isn't the price for the ride then what's the point? Why should I use Uber over a cab service? The cars aren't cleaner. The drivers aren't better. What am I using the service for?

      When I order a ride I want the price for the ride advertised to me as is. That's why I use uber. If that is bo longer the deal then I no longer have any reason to use the service.

      14 votes
      1. [6]
        skybrian
        Link Parent
        It seems customers disagree both on the benefits of ride-sharing services and how much drivers should be paid?

        It seems customers disagree both on the benefits of ride-sharing services and how much drivers should be paid?

        3 votes
        1. [5]
          Loire
          Link Parent
          The drivers should be paid the majority of the fare. It's their labour, their vehicle, their gas, their time. Uber is just the glorified directory. Unfortunately I don't get that choice and I'm...

          The drivers should be paid the majority of the fare. It's their labour, their vehicle, their gas, their time. Uber is just the glorified directory.

          Unfortunately I don't get that choice and I'm not going to make it worse by supporting Uber's policies. The plight of waitresses in America hasn't improved because we tipped, how is tipping my Uber driver going to fix their battle with corporate?

          13 votes
          1. [4]
            Micycle_the_Bichael
            Link Parent
            "I don't like tipping so fuck the working poor. If they want to not be poor they should just go and find better paying jobs and I will conveniently ignore every obstacle against collective...

            "I don't like tipping so fuck the working poor. If they want to not be poor they should just go and find better paying jobs and I will conveniently ignore every obstacle against collective bargaining and low wages across the board making this nearly impossible."

            1 vote
            1. [2]
              Greg
              Link Parent
              That seems an unnecessarily antagonistic way to put it, which I don't think helps the conversation. That said, I do see where you're coming from. My issue is that this logic would suggest that the...

              That seems an unnecessarily antagonistic way to put it, which I don't think helps the conversation.

              That said, I do see where you're coming from. My issue is that this logic would suggest that the immediate moral responsibility to help any and all of the working poor (fast food, retail, etc.) lies with the individual customer.

              It's a genuinely difficult problem, because tipping now (in the situations where Americans currently do so, and in basically any interaction with a minimum wage worker, in order to be logically consistent) does indeed provide immediate help - but it does so in an uneven, unreliable, and discriminatory way. It also masks the underlying issue, to the point that workers' anger may be redirected to the customer for not tipping enough rather than the company for not paying enough.

              3 votes
              1. Micycle_the_Bichael
                Link Parent
                You're right. It was unnecessarily antagonistic. I'm just so sick of people pretending to take a moral stand while doing the literal most harmful option they could to the working class. Using a...

                You're right. It was unnecessarily antagonistic. I'm just so sick of people pretending to take a moral stand while doing the literal most harmful option they could to the working class. Using a service and not tipping gives (a) no incentive for the company to change because you are still giving them your service and they are still getting the part that generates most of their profit and (b) harming the employee because you're taking away the portion that helps them the most. Instead, people should (1) Not use the service, and list workers rights/pay as the reason you are no longer using them (2) Support workers unions (3) Vote for legislation that helps workers pay/benefits (4) Vote against laws that strip away collective bargaining (5) Support companies that pay a living wage to their employees. If none exists and you can't live without the service, support the one that treats their workers the best. As long as there is extreme poverty and people starving and homeless, there will be people who will work for shitty pay/tips because they will literally die without it. There aren't enough jobs that pay a living wage that allow workers to quit jobs that don't give a living wage, and there are enough at-will states, resistance/villination of unions, laws that make it easy to fire workers for any reason and enough people in poverty that workers will always face an incredibly steep uphill battle that will, at the end of the day, need the support of the general public to pass anyway to fix the tipping issue. The solution of "use service but don't tip" doesn't do anything other than kick the working poor while they are already down and ask why they don't just stand up.

                Some notes: This is entirely from the view of the US, I am not well-versed in the intricacies of labor laws in other countries. I also didn't really discuss the racial component to a lot of tipping industries/poverty which is really important but since I'm at work right now I don't have time to dig into that massive bucket of worms.

                6 votes
            2. ubergeek
              Link Parent
              That's not it at all, and tipping isn't going to make the working poor, not the working poor. Labor unionization is what makes the working poor not the working poor.

              That's not it at all, and tipping isn't going to make the working poor, not the working poor.

              Labor unionization is what makes the working poor not the working poor.

              1 vote
      2. [5]
        Comment deleted by author
        Link Parent
        1. [4]
          Loire
          Link Parent
          Did I get a choice in that? Did I get to choose cheap fares with the option to tip? Did I get the choice to choose higher fares with no option to tip? By tipping you support corporate Uber's...

          It's part of the deal now, especially since the economics for the drivers have gotten substantially worse over time.

          Did I get a choice in that? Did I get to choose cheap fares with the option to tip? Did I get the choice to choose higher fares with no option to tip?

          By tipping you support corporate Uber's actions. The drivers need to do their part and either move to a driver friendly rideshare or organize within Uber. I didn't get to choose their percentage of the ride fare, otherwise they would get the whole thing.

          what is essentially a luxury service

          Theres nothing luxury anout base level uber. Most of the vehicles I've been in have been in worse shape then the average Houston cab.

          If I can't afford to tip

          Again you keep discussing affordability, I make plenty of money, that's not the issue. I use rideshares for a very specific reason and apparently that reason has been stolen out from under me. I didn't choose uber because its cheap, and if the other benefits no longer exist then I have no reason not to use a taxi. Seriously what is the point of a rideshare otherwise?

          When I order my taxi I want the driver, the price and the route right there on the screen.

          9 votes
          1. [3]
            skybrian
            Link Parent
            It was nice when Uber subsidized taxi service, but apparently those days are over. It's not your fault that it came to an end, but it's not the driver's fault either. You don't get a choice about...

            It was nice when Uber subsidized taxi service, but apparently those days are over. It's not your fault that it came to an end, but it's not the driver's fault either. You don't get a choice about Uber's pricing and nothing you do unilaterally can make things go back to how they used to be.

            But if you think drivers don't get paid enough, you can do something about it.

            1. [2]
              joelthelion
              Link Parent
              I'm not sure supporting a system where you have every incentive not to tip, yet must do it in order for drivers to make a living is the best way to do it. It would be much better to call for Uber...

              But if you think drivers don't get paid enough, you can do something about it.

              I'm not sure supporting a system where you have every incentive not to tip, yet must do it in order for drivers to make a living is the best way to do it.

              It would be much better to call for Uber to be regulated and 1) include enough money for the driver in the base price 2) not abuse their quasi-monopoly by taking huge margins.

              3 votes
              1. skybrian
                Link Parent
                Calling for Uber to be regulated might make you feel better, but it doesn't change anything. And you don't get to control Uber's base price or margins. You do get to choose a different ride...

                Calling for Uber to be regulated might make you feel better, but it doesn't change anything. And you don't get to control Uber's base price or margins. You do get to choose a different ride service, though, or go back to taking a cab.

    3. NaraVara
      Link Parent
      The entire reason tipping culture exists is because business owners want to trick you into thinking you do have money for the service or product by artificially keeping the sticker price lower...

      If I don't have money to tip then I don't have the money for the service or product, flat out

      The entire reason tipping culture exists is because business owners want to trick you into thinking you do have money for the service or product by artificially keeping the sticker price lower than what is actually fair. You can’t have a system that is actively and deliberately lying to people about what they can afford and then be mad that they accept what is being told to them.

      9 votes
  3. [15]
    JXM
    Link
    Note: I would link directly to the paper referenced in the article but it's behind a paywall. I don't use Uber, but does the app automatically include a tip on the ride? i.e., you manually have to...

    Note: I would link directly to the paper referenced in the article but it's behind a paywall.

    I don't use Uber, but does the app automatically include a tip on the ride? i.e., you manually have to remove the tip if you don't want to give a tip.

    Roughly 16 percent of Uber rides are tipped. Yet, most riders (60 percent) never tipped over the research team’s four weeks of data collection.

    This is why tipping is mostly bad. If you give people the option to not give someone else money, there's a large percentage of people who just won't give that extra money.

    3 votes
    1. [3]
      stu2b50
      Link Parent
      But is that inherently wrong? Are tips supposed to be a norm, something you give to the "average" experience, or is it something that you give to extraordinary experiences (you made your driver...

      This is why tipping is mostly bad. If you give people the option to not give someone else money, there's a large percentage of people who just won't give that extra money.

      But is that inherently wrong? Are tips supposed to be a norm, something you give to the "average" experience, or is it something that you give to extraordinary experiences (you made your driver wait, they were helpful, etc.)?

      I'd argue that in the former, you should just skip the ceremony and fold the cost into the service.

      And in the latter, you'd expect it to be a smaller percent like, say, 16%.

      10 votes
      1. PetitPrince
        Link Parent
        Welcome to the European school of tipping !

        Welcome to the European school of tipping !

        9 votes
      2. JXM
        Link Parent
        That’s how I feel. It should be built into the cost of the service.

        That’s how I feel. It should be built into the cost of the service.

        2 votes
    2. [2]
      Kremor
      Link Parent
      At the end of your ride the app will ask you to rate the driver and then how much do you'd like to tip listing some predefined options: 10%; 15%; or 20% of the ride cost. You can also tip a custom...

      I don't use Uber, but does the app automatically include a tip on the ride? i.e., you manually have to remove the tip if you don't want to give a tip.

      At the end of your ride the app will ask you to rate the driver and then how much do you'd like to tip listing some predefined options: 10%; 15%; or 20% of the ride cost. You can also tip a custom amount of money or dismiss that option.

      4 votes
      1. JXM
        Link Parent
        I see. It works the same way Lyft does then.

        I see. It works the same way Lyft does then.

        1 vote
    3. [6]
      moocow1452
      Link Parent
      There's the fundamental issue that tipping through Uber is indistinguishable from tipping Uber, so it might be more moral to just offer no tip so Uber has to minimally reimburse them. Or bring cash.

      There's the fundamental issue that tipping through Uber is indistinguishable from tipping Uber, so it might be more moral to just offer no tip so Uber has to minimally reimburse them. Or bring cash.

      3 votes
      1. [5]
        JXM
        Link Parent
        Does it not specifically say "Tip your driver"?

        Does it not specifically say "Tip your driver"?

        1 vote
        1. [4]
          moocow1452
          Link Parent
          I'm probably confusing it with Doordash, but the rumor of them eating tips probably doesn't help things.

          I'm probably confusing it with Doordash, but the rumor of them eating tips probably doesn't help things.

          2 votes
          1. [3]
            cfabbro
            Link Parent
            Could this be what you're thinking of? https://blogs.findlaw.com/decided/2017/02/uber-settles-class-action-claim-of-stealing-driver-tips.html

            Could this be what you're thinking of?

            https://blogs.findlaw.com/decided/2017/02/uber-settles-class-action-claim-of-stealing-driver-tips.html

            According to the Order approving settlement, not only will Uber have to pay over $300,000 to the users that were tricked into believing the gratuities were solely for the drivers, but Uber will also have to pay for the class action attorneys' fees separately. After reviewing and approving the settlement, the court awarded the plaintiffs' attorney over $400,000 as well. In addition to the class relief and attorneys' fees, Uber was also ordered to pay the lead plaintiff an additional $5,000 as an incentive reward for having taken the time to serve as lead plaintiff.

            2 votes
            1. [2]
              moocow1452
              Link Parent
              Yeah, that's it. Couldn't find anything on that. Maybe some Google conspiracy...

              Yeah, that's it. Couldn't find anything on that. Maybe some Google conspiracy...

              1 vote
              1. cfabbro
                Link Parent
                It was the third result on google for Uber stealing tips for me. ;)

                It was the third result on google for Uber stealing tips for me. ;)

    4. [3]
      NaraVara
      Link Parent
      No. You have to manually add a tip. Also, the app only gives you a day or so grace period before charging your card, so if you book a ride and then don't open the app again for more than a day...

      I don't use Uber, but does the app automatically include a tip on the ride? i.e., you manually have to remove the tip if you don't want to give a tip.

      No. You have to manually add a tip. Also, the app only gives you a day or so grace period before charging your card, so if you book a ride and then don't open the app again for more than a day then it automatically charges the card with no tip authorized.

      1 vote
      1. [2]
        JXM
        Link Parent
        You'd think they could remind you with a notification to leave a tip or something.

        You'd think they could remind you with a notification to leave a tip or something.

        1 vote
        1. NaraVara
          Link Parent
          I'd rather they just charge a fair price and pay their workers from that instead of expecting people's largesse to fill in for the deficiencies in their business model.

          I'd rather they just charge a fair price and pay their workers from that instead of expecting people's largesse to fill in for the deficiencies in their business model.

          14 votes
  4. mrbig
    (edited )
    Link
    My country has no tipping culture whatsoever so this very alien to me. I believe people would be offended if I tipped them. We do have a 10% flat fee that’s automatically added to the check and is...

    My country has no tipping culture whatsoever so this very alien to me. I believe people would be offended if I tipped them.

    We do have a 10% flat fee that’s automatically added to the check and is supposed to go to the servers. You’re not obligated to pay. I only refuse to pay when the service is truly awful. Most people do the same.

    2 votes
  5. [16]
    vakieh
    Link
    Tipping culture is bonafide pants-on-fire-on-head retarded. What on earth is wrong with just having the pay for a service included in the money that is given to the employee by their employer? Why...

    Tipping culture is bonafide pants-on-fire-on-head retarded. What on earth is wrong with just having the pay for a service included in the money that is given to the employee by their employer? Why do you give that level of power to a consumer who has no repeat service motivation to provide this 'bonus money'?

    Nobody tips anybody anything here at all (unless they are dumb yankee tourists) - and it works.

    12 votes
    1. [10]
      emdash
      Link Parent
      I think there's more nuance to this argument that's important: not tipping in America is incredibly rude, and you should still do it—even if you disagree with it—because these people need the...

      I think there's more nuance to this argument that's important: not tipping in America is incredibly rude, and you should still do it—even if you disagree with it—because these people need the money from the tips they generate to pay their bills. Now, I'm not an American, and I agree it's a silly concept, but not tipping on some stand or principle because you believe tipping to be wrong is the wrong way to go about promoting change here.

      If you take an Uber in the U.S., you should tip your driver—irrespective of your opinion on tipping. It's cultural norm, even if nearly every foreigner, and many citizens themselves, think it's silly.

      6 votes
      1. [3]
        joelthelion
        Link Parent
        Given the statistics in the linked article, it certainly doesn't appear to be.

        If you take an Uber in the U.S., you should tip your driver—irrespective of your opinion on tipping. It's cultural norm

        Given the statistics in the linked article, it certainly doesn't appear to be.

        7 votes
        1. [2]
          emdash
          Link Parent
          Tipping is indeed cultural norm in the U.S.—I would consider it to be the socially polite and acceptable gesture to tip for the services rendered if the app/business provides a mechanism to do so.

          Tipping is indeed cultural norm in the U.S.—I would consider it to be the socially polite and acceptable gesture to tip for the services rendered if the app/business provides a mechanism to do so.

          1 vote
          1. joelthelion
            Link Parent
            It is for restaurants, yes, but it doesn't seem to be the case for Uber. When "only 1 percent of Uber customers always tip", I don't think you can talk about a social norm.

            It is for restaurants, yes, but it doesn't seem to be the case for Uber. When "only 1 percent of Uber customers always tip", I don't think you can talk about a social norm.

            8 votes
      2. [6]
        vakieh
        Link Parent
        I disagree. It is the ONLY way to promote change, because it is the only thing with any leverage whatsoever. Everybody stops tipping because they are selfish assholes, people in tipping jobs quit...

        is the wrong way to go about promoting change here

        I disagree. It is the ONLY way to promote change, because it is the only thing with any leverage whatsoever. Everybody stops tipping because they are selfish assholes, people in tipping jobs quit because $3 an hour isn't worth doing fuck all, companies wake up, bump menu prices, pay more, tipping culture dies.

        There is literally no other path that has the slightest possible chance of working.

        6 votes
        1. ubergeek
          Link Parent
          Well, another option is to organize labor. I surmise that's why tipping in Euro nations is pretty rare, because their labor movement never really died off.

          Well, another option is to organize labor. I surmise that's why tipping in Euro nations is pretty rare, because their labor movement never really died off.

          1 vote
        2. [4]
          emdash
          Link Parent
          Except that won't work; because there is no organised movement to eradicate tipping in the U.S. All you're done is post some hypothetical about how in some idealistic world it'd change, except we...

          Except that won't work; because there is no organised movement to eradicate tipping in the U.S. All you're done is post some hypothetical about how in some idealistic world it'd change, except we live in a pragmatic world where none of that is happening and there's no cohesive, organised support for what you're proposing.

          So sure, go ahead and not tip. All you're doing is looking like a douchebag to the waiters and waitresses while doing nothing to promote change.

          1 vote
          1. [3]
            vakieh
            Link Parent
            The linked post would imply you are incorrect. Show me a protest movement with 66% participation.

            The linked post would imply you are incorrect. Show me a protest movement with 66% participation.

            1 vote
            1. [2]
              emdash
              Link Parent
              What makes it a protest movement? What makes it organised? Furthermore, is there any indication that it's having any meaningful effect on the conversation around tipping on a wider scale? You're...

              What makes it a protest movement? What makes it organised? Furthermore, is there any indication that it's having any meaningful effect on the conversation around tipping on a wider scale? You're conflating a whole bunch of things to make an argument with little factual basis.

              1. mundane_and_naive
                Link Parent
                You misunderstood their point. Your earlier comment seems to suggest that since there's no organized movement to abandon tipping, the majority won't do it, so there'd be no change. Their point is...

                You misunderstood their point. Your earlier comment seems to suggest that since there's no organized movement to abandon tipping, the majority won't do it, so there'd be no change. Their point is that there's already a majority who have done it (abandoning tipping) despite there being no organized movement.

                It's no longer a question of whether you should or should not tip. According to the article, majority of people are already not doing it. The question now should be what can the drivers do about it. Are you going to demand your employers to pay you more? Or are you going to shame the customers into paying you more?

                2 votes
    2. [5]
      annadane
      Link Parent
      The only time I find tipping justified is ordering food for delivery (they use their own cars most of the time) and maybe for really long taxi rides that are unplanned because it makes them go a...

      The only time I find tipping justified is ordering food for delivery (they use their own cars most of the time) and maybe for really long taxi rides that are unplanned because it makes them go a long way out of their way... that said... fuck tipping. It's insane to treat the customer as rude or ungrateful when tipping is not at all clear that it should be a social norm. Charge more. Put extra on my bill. DON'T expect me to tip.

      4 votes
      1. Greg
        Link Parent
        Out of interest, do you think the "charge more, don't expect me to tip" logic doesn't work for food delivery services? I'd think that if they're using their own vehicles it would be helpful for...

        Out of interest, do you think the "charge more, don't expect me to tip" logic doesn't work for food delivery services? I'd think that if they're using their own vehicles it would be helpful for the drivers to have more predictability, not less.

        1 vote
      2. ubergeek
        Link Parent
        My only "cultural norm" of tipping is tipping a delivery guy, when I'm already paying a fee to have it delivered. Like,"What is the fee for then?" It's almost like someone is stealing value here.

        My only "cultural norm" of tipping is tipping a delivery guy, when I'm already paying a fee to have it delivered. Like,"What is the fee for then?"

        It's almost like someone is stealing value here.

        1 vote
      3. [2]
        tindall
        Link Parent
        The boss sets the bill, the prole gets the tip. Don't stiff the proles because the bosses want to make things appear cheaper.

        The boss sets the bill, the prole gets the tip. Don't stiff the proles because the bosses want to make things appear cheaper.

        1. ubergeek
          Link Parent
          The proles need to organize, and make the boss pay a fair wage.

          The proles need to organize, and make the boss pay a fair wage.

          2 votes