20 votes

Hundreds arrested after European law enforcement agencies monitored over 100 million encrypted messages sent through Encrochat, a network used by criminals

9 comments

  1. [5]
    JakeTheDog
    Link
    Am I the only one that is a bit surprised by this? It seems to me that the criminals caught in this raid were more amateur and lower on the distribution of tech-savvy. Why would anyone buy a third...

    Am I the only one that is a bit surprised by this? It seems to me that the criminals caught in this raid were more amateur and lower on the distribution of tech-savvy. Why would anyone buy a third party device and subscribe to a centralized system? The features described seem to be pretty basic, and something anyone could do using Signal or any other encrypted chat + darkweb markets + custom ROMs. I imagine the more competent criminal organizations have their own IT and even own software, so I'm not too impressed with this. Am I missing something?

    6 votes
    1. [2]
      ohyran
      Link Parent
      I think (EDIT: "think" = "guess" like I mention I have no fekking clue :) ) thats a severe overestimation of the skill set of violent career criminals. If the core strength you have is an ability...

      I think (EDIT: "think" = "guess" like I mention I have no fekking clue :) ) thats a severe overestimation of the skill set of violent career criminals. If the core strength you have is an ability for violence, IT-skills isn't that big up on the list and often something you don't mind just purchasing. If violence and non-taxed cash is your forte either of those solutions would probably be what you pick. Hell even the Sinaloa Cartel just bought an IT solution instead of rolling their own and as violent career criminals go they where fairly business like.

      Even businesses and politicians have this same issue. They aren't there for their wide ranging skills, but for holding skills that are severely niche.

      Technically these phones seems to be a combination of encryption, encrypted communications apps, and hardware modding - and then the correct contacts. I mean call me naive, but I wouldn't know where to even begin selling phones like this if I wanted to. Producing them if I have the backing is easy (or at least you know, "easIER") but selling them? No blessed clue. And then even if I was cool with these phones being used by, say the Sinaloa Cartel, would I even want to do business with them? Feels like there are way better clients available that are not known for their violence handling of internal dispute.

      2 votes
      1. Omnicrola
        Link Parent
        I think that probably hits it. Not only are private companies easier to find, they are easier to leave while still retaining your kneecaps and the kneecaps of your friends and family. There's...

        Feels like there are way better clients available that are not known for their violence handling of internal dispute.

        I think that probably hits it. Not only are private companies easier to find, they are easier to leave while still retaining your kneecaps and the kneecaps of your friends and family. There's always going to be a percentage of people who get into IT with criminal organizations for a variety of reasons, but the primary selection process isn't going to yield the best and the brightest it's going to result in the minimal passable competency.

        2 votes
    2. [2]
      DanBC
      Link Parent
      In the UK we have RIPA (regulation of investigatory powers act). Mostly this law stops government agencies from randomly spying on people, and brings all those surveillance powers under some...

      In the UK we have RIPA (regulation of investigatory powers act). Mostly this law stops government agencies from randomly spying on people, and brings all those surveillance powers under some semblance of a regulatory regime. But it also includes some stuff about key disclosure. If they correctly ask for your decryption keys and you don't provide them you can go to prison for 2 years, or 5 years for terrorism or child sexual exploitation.

      It seems like some of encrochat's appeal was that a phone had a hidden partition that wasn't obvious without a detailed search.

      1. JakeTheDog
        Link Parent
        I don't have any specific examples, but I'm pretty sure this is a trivial thing to do today. VeraCrypt (disk encryption software) has had this feature for a very long time. Though as a side note,...

        It seems like some of encrochat's appeal was that a phone had a hidden partition that wasn't obvious without a detailed search.

        I don't have any specific examples, but I'm pretty sure this is a trivial thing to do today. VeraCrypt (disk encryption software) has had this feature for a very long time. Though as a side note, forensic analysis may be able to reveal that there is a hidden partition.

        But maybe I have the burden of knowledge and indeed these are the moderately-tech-savvy-at-best crowd of criminals.

        3 votes
  2. [4]
    intuxikated
    Link
    Does these companies have no shame at all? Shouldn't saying these things publicly put these companies into legal repercussions?

    Already, other encrypted phone companies are trying to fill the void left by Encrochat. A company called Omerta has been advertising directly to Encrochat's old customers. "ENCROCHAT HACKED, USERS EXPOSED & ARRESTS GALORE - THE KING IS DEAD," a blog post on its site reads.

    "Did you narrowly escape the recent Mass Extinction Event? Celebrate with 10 percent off. Join the Omerta family and communicate with impunity."

    Does these companies have no shame at all? Shouldn't saying these things publicly put these companies into legal repercussions?

    2 votes
    1. [3]
      ohyran
      Link Parent
      According to the article these are sold in the same way as drugs themselves, through unique contacts. With payments being done using comparatively untraceable funds. Plus what kind of legal...

      According to the article these are sold in the same way as drugs themselves, through unique contacts. With payments being done using comparatively untraceable funds.

      Plus what kind of legal repercussions could you do if they sold it in a shop? Selling a heavily encrypted phone isn't a crime, even selling it with a name like "Omerta" (I mean the cheesiness of the name alone should be a crime) and on marketed on specific sites targeting drug dealers.

      2 votes
      1. [2]
        intuxikated
        Link Parent
        I was not talking about the illegality of selling encrypted phone, they are not even hiding who they are targeting as their customers by using the slogans I mentioned. Ads presented in a way that...

        I was not talking about the illegality of selling encrypted phone, they are not even hiding who they are targeting as their customers by using the slogans I mentioned. Ads presented in a way that the product can facilitate criminal activity isn't illegal?

        1. ohyran
          Link Parent
          Well its first off not like these companies exists on their own as legal entities probably. Second dragging someone through court to just hear them go "Well we don't know what people do with the...

          Well its first off not like these companies exists on their own as legal entities probably. Second dragging someone through court to just hear them go "Well we don't know what people do with the stuff they buy from us" would be kinda redundant right?

          1 vote