6 votes

Why Monero

20 comments

  1. [18]
    Akir
    Link
    Every time I read one of these, all I ever take from them is "this is why my speculative market is better than those other speculative markets". Every cryptocurrency has the same problems. Number...

    Every time I read one of these, all I ever take from them is "this is why my speculative market is better than those other speculative markets".

    Every cryptocurrency has the same problems. Number one is lack of stable value, and number two is that none of them have become remotely cashlike in simplicity; there's always a hoop to go through. Number two is largely a problem of adoption, so if you want to solve number two, you have to solve number one. People don't want to make the mistake of buying their pizza with a currency that will eventually be worth hundreds and thousands of dollars.

    The problem with literally every Altcoin is that they attempt to fix software problems when the problems are economic and/or social in nature. That's like renewing the varnish on the wooden fixtures on a boat with a hole in it. What's even worse is that everyone pushing them already knows that they're buying into a speculative market. Everyone makes the point of saying that there's not enough people using it to make it a real cash replacement, this one included. But they always pretend like that's just around the corner. And the sad thing is that altcoins don't make money except for the people who were there at ground zero for it, because the vast majority only seem to serve the function of increasing the value of Bitcoin.

    17 votes
    1. tomf
      Link Parent
      This could not be more true. I'm trying to send some BTC to someone, but now I'm required to jump through hoops to identify myself. It seems like the process takes a week or so. All this to send...

      none of them have become remotely cashlike in simplicity

      This could not be more true. I'm trying to send some BTC to someone, but now I'm required to jump through hoops to identify myself. It seems like the process takes a week or so. All this to send $10.

      I received a bunch of Stellar Lumens from that keybase drop a few years ago. I was going to cash out when it was up, but again -- the hoops. I hate it.

      8 votes
    2. streblo
      Link Parent
      That's the thing with cryptocurrency -- IMO its vastly preferable to have currency levers available to central banks (wink wink governments) even if they are woefully misused. Address that problem...

      Every cryptocurrency has the same problems. Number one is lack of stable value, and number two is that none of them have become remotely cashlike in simplicity; there's always a hoop to go through. Number two is largely a problem of adoption, so if you want to solve number two, you have to solve number one. People don't want to make the mistake of buying their pizza with a currency that will eventually be worth hundreds and thousands of dollars.

      That's the thing with cryptocurrency -- IMO its vastly preferable to have currency levers available to central banks (wink wink governments) even if they are woefully misused. Address that problem through voting, not trying to hijack the financial system. One of the problems with bitcoin and other decentralized currencies is that there are no brakes. Enthusiasts like to envision moon-levels of currency value and they are probably correct if it were ever to be adopted as a standard currency -- but they don't go on to critically evaluate how society would work in rapidly deflationary environment.

      3 votes
    3. [15]
      piedpiper
      Link Parent
      You can make an insane amount of money trading altcoins without buying in at ground zero.

      And the sad thing is that altcoins don't make money except for the people who were there at ground zero for it

      You can make an insane amount of money trading altcoins without buying in at ground zero.

      1. [4]
        DrTacoMD
        Link Parent
        Even if that's true, is that a good thing? It feels like every crypto currency I've seen, but especially Altcoins, can't make up their minds if they want to be a high-risk, high-reward asset to be...

        Even if that's true, is that a good thing?

        It feels like every crypto currency I've seen, but especially Altcoins, can't make up their minds if they want to be a high-risk, high-reward asset to be traded, or a currency. Currencies need to be stable and predictable for anyone to seriously consider adopting them.

        If you give me $100 USD today, or £100 GBP, or €100 EUR, I have a pretty solid idea of what its buying power will be tomorrow, next year, and in 20 years. But a BTC? Or worse, any of these fly-by-night Altcoins? Not a clue.

        11 votes
        1. [2]
          dubteedub
          Link Parent
          Yup, I 100% agree with you. I think the fundamental question for crypto supporters is: Do you view crypto as a get rich quick scheme or an alternative currency? I don't see how both can be true at...

          Yup, I 100% agree with you. I think the fundamental question for crypto supporters is: Do you view crypto as a get rich quick scheme or an alternative currency? I don't see how both can be true at the same time.

          If you want to treat crypto like a casino, by all means I guess. Just don't expect others to take it seriously as some potential replacement for the USD.

          7 votes
          1. piedpiper
            Link Parent
            But those aren't really the only two options. You might see investing in crypto as a get rich quick scheme, and I would agree that a lot of other people see it that way. But a lot of people see it...

            I think the fundamental question for crypto supporters is: Do you view crypto as a get rich quick scheme or an alternative currency?

            But those aren't really the only two options. You might see investing in crypto as a get rich quick scheme, and I would agree that a lot of other people see it that way. But a lot of people see it as a long term investment. So far, that strategy is working out pretty well. Time will tell if it keeps rising in value over time or if one day it will be obsolete and worthless.

            Also, there are other uses for crypto like NFT's, smart contracts, DAPPs. I won't pretend to know a lot about any of those, but my point is those aren't the only two options.

            2 votes
        2. piedpiper
          Link Parent
          Maybe not a good thing if you want to use it as a currency. I think most people treat them like assets and buy them with the intent of later selling at a higher price. Regardless, my comment was...

          Maybe not a good thing if you want to use it as a currency. I think most people treat them like assets and buy them with the intent of later selling at a higher price.

          Regardless, my comment was in response to the idea that alt coins don't make money unless you bought at ground zero. You can just look at the price charts of the biggest alt coins to see that isn't true. Of course, it's crazy volatile and you can just as easily lose money.

          I'm not saying its a good thing or bad thing. It just is what it is.

          2 votes
      2. [10]
        Akir
        Link Parent
        That's rather beside the point. With any speculative market, the people who get in early and sell their product before the decline do so at the expense of the people who purchase it at a later...

        That's rather beside the point. With any speculative market, the people who get in early and sell their product before the decline do so at the expense of the people who purchase it at a later point.

        What's worse is that crypto has no inherent worth. If I buy speculative tulips, at the very least I can press the leaves, dry them to make potpourri, or mulch them to make compost. When Crypto loses it's value, people forget their wallets and the currency effectively disappears altogether.

        5 votes
        1. [5]
          Contentus
          Link Parent
          The money we use (USD, EUR, etc), has no inherent value.

          The money we use (USD, EUR, etc), has no inherent value.

          2 votes
          1. [4]
            streblo
            Link Parent
            As long as you can pay taxes in those currencies, that's not actually true.

            As long as you can pay taxes in those currencies, that's not actually true.

            9 votes
            1. [3]
              Contentus
              Link Parent
              I meant outside of being a currency obviously

              I meant outside of being a currency obviously

              1. [2]
                streblo
                Link Parent
                But not just any currency. You can’t pay American taxes in Yen or Bitcoin, you have to acquire USD. That gives USD a floor value in America and so on for other currencies/countries....

                But not just any currency. You can’t pay American taxes in Yen or Bitcoin, you have to acquire USD. That gives USD a floor value in America and so on for other currencies/countries.

                Cryptocurrencies don’t have such a floor.

                4 votes
                1. Contentus
                  Link Parent
                  OK but that's not what intrinsic value means in discussing currencies. But i agree with what you said.

                  OK but that's not what intrinsic value means in discussing currencies. But i agree with what you said.

        2. [4]
          piedpiper
          Link Parent
          Of course the people who buy early are going to make the most, but that doesn't mean there is no money to be made buying later. You can simply look at the price charts to see that. Obviously if...

          Of course the people who buy early are going to make the most, but that doesn't mean there is no money to be made buying later. You can simply look at the price charts to see that. Obviously if you buy at an all time high right before a crash you are going to lose money, though if history is any indication you'd actually still make money if you held onto your coins long enough.

          It's weird to me how polarizing crypto is. It's like you either think its a scam or it's the next internet, and there are very few people in between. I personally don't really care. I see good arguments from either side. I think there is a lot of potential in the crypto space with a lot of very smart people doing interesting things, but it could just as easily crash and be totally worthless someday (though I don't think that will happen anytime soon).

          1. [3]
            Akir
            Link Parent
            I really want cryptocurrency to work. One of my utopian wishes for the world is that we had an instant electronic way to transfer money that would work everywhere, and it seemed that crypto was...

            I really want cryptocurrency to work. One of my utopian wishes for the world is that we had an instant electronic way to transfer money that would work everywhere, and it seemed that crypto was the answer. Unfortunately it didn't work out that way. There was a brief shining moment where online stores opened up that would accept them, but they are largely gone now that we know that none of them have managed to maintain a steady value.

            My problem with the overall crypto 'community' is that so many altcoins are constantly coming up that don't fix the underlying economic problems. It feels like they exist only to prop up the big name ones like Bitcoin or Etherium.

            2 votes
            1. [2]
              piedpiper
              Link Parent
              I don't entirely disagree with you, but I think it's still really early to say for sure that "it didn't work out that way". Crypto is still being actively developed and I see a lot more buy in...

              I don't entirely disagree with you, but I think it's still really early to say for sure that "it didn't work out that way". Crypto is still being actively developed and I see a lot more buy in from institutions every day, as well as new uses beyond just a currency.

              There's definitely a lot of problems in the crypto space, too many useless coins being one of them. But I also see a lot of interesting things happening.

              I'm curious, given your thoughts of crypto having failed as a currency, what are your thoughts on El Salvador adopting Bitcoin as legal currency? It seems like other countries are thinking about doing the same thing too.

              1. Akir
                Link Parent
                Just to be clear, I don't think that crypto is impossible. I just don't see anyone tackling the important economic problems I mentioned before. It seems to me that the majority of people involved...

                Just to be clear, I don't think that crypto is impossible. I just don't see anyone tackling the important economic problems I mentioned before. It seems to me that the majority of people involved in crypto right now are looking to make money off of it, or are geeky idealists who think that their code can change the world, but may not necessarily understand or have interest in why the crypto fails to replace fiat currency.

                El Salvador is on an adventure. Goodness knows that the residents aren't all that happy with it. From the perspective of governance, I don't think it was a wise choice, and the implementation was even worse. Beyond anything, it seems entirely insane to do it in a country where not everyone has internet access.

                The sad thing is that if they had created their own cryptocurrency I think it could have actually solved some of the economic issues with crypto. But honestly, I don't think there's a government competent enough to do that on this earth. In any case, I think Bitcoin was a very poor choice of cryptocurrency.

  2. [2]
    Akir
    Link
    Coincidentally, Anonymous just dropped a cache of data from Epik Hosting and on their site they asked for tips in the form of Monero. It's a bit too on-the-nose to learn about a new cryptocurrency...

    Coincidentally, Anonymous just dropped a cache of data from Epik Hosting and on their site they asked for tips in the form of Monero.

    It's a bit too on-the-nose to learn about a new cryptocurrency and how it's better because transactions are private, and the very first time I see anyone mention actually using it, it's to pay people for illegal activities.

    5 votes
    1. Moonchild
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      Cash is better than credit because transactions are private, and it is used heavily for illegal activities. EDIT: knives are also used heavily for illegal activities.

      Cash is better than credit because transactions are private, and it is used heavily for illegal activities.

      EDIT: knives are also used heavily for illegal activities.

      4 votes