51 votes

New groups added, more work still happening on rearranging, moving topics, etc.

Tags: groups

Alrighty, after the discussion last week, I've finally added the new groups, and everyone will have been mostly auto-subscribed to all of them. I'm still working on some of the details like adding descriptions, and there will be some awkward pieces and interface aspects since we're still in the transition phase before I get those larger changes to subscriptions/etc. in (which I really hope will be soon), but it should mostly be fine.

If you want to change your subscriptions quickly, use this page: https://tildes.net/groups (linked from a button at the bottom of the home page's sidebar)

First, here are the new groups:

New top-level groups (everyone auto-subscribed)

New sub-groups (auto-subscribed only if you were subscribed to the parent group)

Some of this will be a little experimental and I'm not totally sure how it's going to work out (splitting ~science into the branches of science especially), but we'll see what happens. The names and such aren't necessarily 100% final either.

Since we now have some real sub-groups that people other than me can post in, I made a small behavior change to how sub-groups work until those larger changes are ready. Previously, subscribing to a group would automatically include all posts from its sub-groups in your home page as well. That is, if you subscribed to ~tildes, you would also see all posts from ~tildes.official, regardless of whether you subscribed to it or not.

Now, your home page will only include posts from groups (and sub-groups) that you are specifically subscribed to. So if you want to see topics from ~games but not ~games.tabletop, you should subscribe to ~games and unsubscribe from ~games.tabletop. However, if you visit ~games directly, posts from ~games.tabletop will still be included in the list there, regardless of whether you're subscribed or not. I know this isn't ideal, but it's not permanent and should be fine for now.

I'm going to get back to working on updating these groups and moving some of the older topics around now, but let me know if you have any questions or thoughts.

And as usual, I've topped everyone's invites up to 10. You can get your invite links here: https://tildes.net/invite

32 comments

  1. [5]
    emdash
    (edited )
    Link
    I take it someone will be on hand to move the topics to the correct group when I inevitably post to these new science subgroups? Is there still a way to submit directly to ~science so I can eschew...

    I take it someone will be on hand to move the topics to the correct group when I inevitably post to these new science subgroups? Is there still a way to submit directly to ~science so I can eschew these new groups?

    I frankly don't have enough expertise to know where to place topics into ~science.*. The new subgroups of formal, natural, and social seem far too removed from everyday vernacular of what people consider science, to the point that I can only make basic assumptions about where topics go. It's also at odds (IMO) with your definition @Deimos that subgroups are about interests, not about taxonomy. This is clearly a taxonomical definition.

    Sure, earth studies in natural, sociology studies in social, everything else in formal, I guess? Where does physics go? Formal? Natural? What is "formal science" to a layman? I don't know, and I think having to be educated in this demonstrates why these subgroups are not a great idea—it's such a niche definition not many people are aware of, or fully understand the boundaries of.

    That's the problem I see with these new groups, they're going to make submitting scientific topics unapproachable, and given the very strong opinions on these groups some have expressed here, whatever I think will probably not be the exact same opinion as someone else.

    So apologies if I submit to the wrong group, I'm sure someone with more opinions than me will be around to correct my mistake though.

    21 votes
    1. [2]
      Deimos
      Link Parent
      Yep, that's definitely the trickiest one that's likely to be the most confusing and I think is still questionable. We're also doing it quite a bit earlier than it's really necessary—there aren't...

      Yep, that's definitely the trickiest one that's likely to be the most confusing and I think is still questionable. We're also doing it quite a bit earlier than it's really necessary—there aren't that many science topics being posted, it doesn't really need to be split into 3 pieces.

      However, I think it's going to be a really good test case for aspects of the group hierarchy. The separation between the branches is generally quite clean and well-defined, and a lot of other groups won't be able to split as nicely. There will still definitely be some confusion from it, but we can try to help it with the descriptions, and overall people are usually quite good at noticing the patterns. For example, if they notice that physics topics are always in ~science.natural, they'll pick up on that being where they should submit too. And like you said, even if they don't, there are a fair number of users that can move the topic anyway (and we can always give that permission to more people).

      It probably also wouldn't be that difficult to add some automation to it, and have posts in ~science get automatically moved to the right sub-group based on their tags. I think it'll work well as a test case, we can see how it goes. It's easy to eliminate the sub-groups if it looks like it's going poorly.

      8 votes
      1. emdash
        Link Parent
        I feel much better about this knowing I can still submit directly to ~science, which allows me to otherwise ignore this new taxonomy when I'm not sure about where to submit, thanks.

        I feel much better about this knowing I can still submit directly to ~science, which allows me to otherwise ignore this new taxonomy when I'm not sure about where to submit, thanks.

        4 votes
    2. [2]
      Algernon_Asimov
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      There are a few people with the ability to move topics - me, for one, but there are others. And, given that I'm the one who pushed for a separate group/sub-group for the social sciences, it's in...

      I take it someone will be on hand to move the topics to the correct group when I inevitably post to these new science subgroups?

      There are a few people with the ability to move topics - me, for one, but there are others. And, given that I'm the one who pushed for a separate group/sub-group for the social sciences, it's in my interest to make this new structure work... which means I'll be moving stuff around as necessary.

      Where does physics go? Formal? Natural? What is "formal science" to a layman?

      Physics is a natural science. Natural sciences are the sciences which study nature: physics, chemistry, biology, geology, astronomy, cosmology, and so on.

      Formal sciences are sciences which study formal systems ("think-y" stuff). They include mathematics and logic and statistics - and even computer science.

      EDIT: And the social sciences are sciences which study human society: sociology, anthropology, economics, even psychology.

      7 votes
      1. cge
        Link Parent
        I have to wonder where this categorization leaves interdisciplinary sciences. For example, where would the abstract computational power of molecular interactions go?

        I have to wonder where this categorization leaves interdisciplinary sciences. For example, where would the abstract computational power of molecular interactions go?

        1 vote
  2. envy
    Link
    ~finance - the description could suggest topics such as Business, Economics, Personal Finance, Investing, Trading, Careers, Alt-coins etc...

    ~finance - the description could suggest topics such as Business, Economics, Personal Finance, Investing, Trading, Careers, Alt-coins etc...

    6 votes
  3. [4]
    Eylrid
    (edited )
    Link
    I moved all of the ~tech posts tagged space or rocketry to ~space (except one that is more about the future of war tech, of which space is one part)

    I moved all of the ~tech posts tagged space or rocketry to ~space (except one that is more about the future of war tech, of which space is one part)

    6 votes
    1. [3]
      Deimos
      Link Parent
      Oh, thanks! I've been gradually making my around moving topics as well (for example I moved everything in ~games tagged with board games or tabletop into ~games.tabletop). It's probably a lot...

      Oh, thanks! I've been gradually making my around moving topics as well (for example I moved everything in ~games tagged with board games or tabletop into ~games.tabletop).

      It's probably a lot easier for me since I can do them in bulk though, so if there's any other larger sets you think should be moved around, definitely let me know.

      5 votes
      1. Eylrid
        Link Parent
        I'm excited for ~space and was itching to get it going. It didn't take me too long. If I think of any other big tags I'll let you know.

        I'm excited for ~space and was itching to get it going. It didn't take me too long. If I think of any other big tags I'll let you know.

        2 votes
      2. Eylrid
        Link Parent
        There are a number of topics tagged design across a variety of groups: https://tildes.net/?tag=design

        There are a number of topics tagged design across a variety of groups: https://tildes.net/?tag=design

  4. Wes
    Link
    Woo, ~space! Hoping there'll be an uptick in space news being posted.

    Woo, ~space! Hoping there'll be an uptick in space news being posted.

    5 votes
  5. Litmus2336
    Link
    Cool! I'm curious if we will generate enough traffic to support fleshing out of subgroups. I'm sure time will tell. I think the handling of subscriptions to subgroups but not main groups and...

    Cool! I'm curious if we will generate enough traffic to support fleshing out of subgroups. I'm sure time will tell. I think the handling of subscriptions to subgroups but not main groups and vice-versa is good.

    I am excited to the tabletop games subgroup.

    3 votes
  6. [3]
    Algernon_Asimov
    (edited )
    Link
    I'm going to add my voice to the chorus thanking you for adding ~space - but for the opposite reason to everyone else. While everyone else wants to subscribe to this new group, I can now...

    I'm going to add my voice to the chorus thanking you for adding ~space - but for the opposite reason to everyone else. While everyone else wants to subscribe to this new group, I can now unsubscribe and stop seeing all those posts about boys and their toys (I'm not really interested in knowing how we're building bigger, better, faster rockets). In fact, I've already unsubscribed from that one group.

    And thanks for the ~science sub-groups, including ~science.social.

    EDIT: I did mean ~space!

    3 votes
  7. gpl
    Link
    It's exciting to see some new groups. I'm not 100% on board with the natural/formal sciences distinction for similar reasons as ~emdash - I don't think it's a distinction super familiar to many...

    It's exciting to see some new groups. I'm not 100% on board with the natural/formal sciences distinction for similar reasons as ~emdash - I don't think it's a distinction super familiar to many people, and one that feels heavily taxonomical in nature. Nonetheless I am happy to go about shifting topics around if I were to have the ability. I feel like I have a relatively good grasp on what would go where.

    3 votes
  8. [2]
    Algernon_Asimov
    Link
    Your proposed behaviour for subscribing and unsubscribing to groups & sub-groups makes sense (only partly because it's what I suggested previously!). Is it possible to list a group's sub-groups in...

    Your proposed behaviour for subscribing and unsubscribing to groups & sub-groups makes sense (only partly because it's what I suggested previously!).

    Is it possible to list a group's sub-groups in the sidebar? This would be important for discoverability, especially when people are not automatically subscribed to sub-groups when subscribing to groups. For example, if someone subscribes to ~games, they won't see any posts from ~games.games_design or ~games.tabletop (which is as it should be). However, they won't necessarily know these sub-groups exist for them to subscribe to if they're interested.

    2 votes
    1. Deimos
      Link Parent
      Yes, that should definitely be possible pretty easily. I'll add an issue to remember to look at that later, since I'm pretty deep into trying to move old topics around for now (especially in...

      Yes, that should definitely be possible pretty easily. I'll add an issue to remember to look at that later, since I'm pretty deep into trying to move old topics around for now (especially in ~science, where almost everything needs to be moved).

      3 votes
  9. [3]
    dabluecaboose
    Link
    I'm sorry for the necro, I'm new and still reading around. Is there another group request thread anywhere? The only one I see is from July, and I've got a few suggestions for hobby sub-groups. Thanks!

    I'm sorry for the necro, I'm new and still reading around. Is there another group request thread anywhere? The only one I see is from July, and I've got a few suggestions for hobby sub-groups. Thanks!

    2 votes
    1. [2]
      Deimos
      Link Parent
      I'm not really planning to add any more groups in the near future, but which ones were you thinking of? ~hobbies is generally one of the most inactive groups, and the new ~hobbies.automotive has...

      I'm not really planning to add any more groups in the near future, but which ones were you thinking of?

      ~hobbies is generally one of the most inactive groups, and the new ~hobbies.automotive has hardly had any activity so far. You can always submit and use tags for categorizing the posts, there doesn't need to be a sub-group.

      1 vote
      1. dabluecaboose
        Link Parent
        specifically, ~hobbies.aquariums, ~hobbies.camping, ~hobbies.watches, and ~hobbies.guns (although I can see those last two being a bit too niche for now) I can just post my aquarium stuff in...

        specifically, ~hobbies.aquariums, ~hobbies.camping, ~hobbies.watches, and ~hobbies.guns (although I can see those last two being a bit too niche for now)

        I can just post my aquarium stuff in ~hobbies general for now I suppose. Fishkeeping is a hobby that benefits greatly from discussion about water parameters and kinda "softer" methodology (rather than "do this and it'll work" like for computers). Just thought I'd put in my two cents as a new member, I'm very interested to see where this goes!

        2 votes
  10. emdash
    (edited )
    Link
    Thank you for introducing ~space, much appreciated! Just spent the last 5 minutes moving a few dozen of my own submissions over :)

    Thank you for introducing ~space, much appreciated! Just spent the last 5 minutes moving a few dozen of my own submissions over :)

    1 vote
  11. [2]
    mycketforvirrad
    Link
    Is there perhaps a way to flag previously posted content that you think would be better served in one of the newly formed groups?

    Is there perhaps a way to flag previously posted content that you think would be better served in one of the newly formed groups?

    1 vote
    1. Deimos
      Link Parent
      I can just give you access to move topics (and have now). Feel free to move ones if you think they obviously belong in one of the new groups. Don't worry too much about it though, the groups will...

      I can just give you access to move topics (and have now). Feel free to move ones if you think they obviously belong in one of the new groups. Don't worry too much about it though, the groups will keep changing over the site's lifetime and we don't necessarily need to go back and relocate a ton of the old topics every time that happens.

      4 votes
  12. [8]
    envy
    Link
    ~space - For some reason, I always read this and wonder "space for what? Chill space?" not "space exploration."

    ~space - For some reason, I always read this and wonder "space for what? Chill space?" not "space exploration."

    1. [7]
      JakeTheDog
      Link Parent
      Would ~cosmos be better? I'm a fan. Plus the added homage to Carl Sagan...

      Would ~cosmos be better? I'm a fan. Plus the added homage to Carl Sagan...

      1. emdash
        Link Parent
        Discussion has been had, but generally ~space is a more inclusive topic for things like spaceflight politics, commercial spaceflight, rocket engine development, etc. "cosmos" evokes a sense of...

        Discussion has been had, but generally ~space is a more inclusive topic for things like spaceflight politics, commercial spaceflight, rocket engine development, etc.

        "cosmos" evokes a sense of astronomy & cosmology, topics which would arguably fall into one of the weird new ~science subgroups that I don't entirely understand 😂.

        10 votes
      2. [5]
        envy
        Link Parent
        I'm afraid we are a day late and a dollar short on proposing new names. How about a cool description like "The final frontier"

        I'm afraid we are a day late and a dollar short on proposing new names.

        How about a cool description like "The final frontier"

        1 vote
        1. [4]
          JakeTheDog
          Link Parent
          But is it the final? Maybe the "next" frontier... Or "current"?

          But is it the final? Maybe the "next" frontier... Or "current"?

          1. [3]
            envy
            Link Parent
            It's from the original Star Trek:

            It's from the original Star Trek:

            Space. The Final Frontier. These are the voyages of the starship Enterprise....

            2 votes
            1. [2]
              JakeTheDog
              Link Parent
              Oh I that I know. I just figured the Star Trek writers weren't aware of the multiverse theory and such :P

              Oh I that I know. I just figured the Star Trek writers weren't aware of the multiverse theory and such :P

              1. Algernon_Asimov
                Link Parent
                Yes, they were. The original series includes an episode about a mirror universe where everyone is evil: 'Mirror, Mirror' (which spawned a few sequels in later series). Then there's 'The Magicks of...

                I just figured the Star Trek writers weren't aware of the multiverse theory and such :P

                Yes, they were. The original series includes an episode about a mirror universe where everyone is evil: 'Mirror, Mirror' (which spawned a few sequels in later series). Then there's 'The Magicks of Mega-Tu' in the animated series which took place in an alternate universe where magic is real. And, of course, the ultimate parallel universe episode: 'Parallels' in TNG, where thousands of universes intersect with each other.

                But this isn't about finding a literal and scientifically accurate nomenclature. It's about making a reference to a well-known phrase: "Space. The Final Frontier."

                2 votes