111 votes

Tildes made me realise how ubiquitous Reddit's bigotry is [a short rant]

cw: discussion of specific types of bigotry

I used to kind of think that Reddit's bigotry was relegated to the hate subs (TD and friends), and that you'd only find it if you went looking. But wow, Tildes has made me realise that it is EVERYWHERE.

Whenever I take a trip back to Reddit, I'm always blindsided by the fact ordinary threads about unrelated topics are so hateful. For example today I was on an r/movies thread about the new Terminator movie and there's queerphobia, transphobia and sexism all highly upvoted, right near the top of the comments. I guess being immersed in that environment for the last seven years of my life made me a bit desensitised to it, but now I'm horrified everytime.

Reddit is a far worse cesspit than I realised, I'm glad Tildes exists and I hope it keeps getting better and better. The internet needs it.

107 comments

  1. [33]
    spctrvl Link
    Yeah the idea of containment subs, if anyone ever actually believed in them and they weren't just an excuse for being lazy, has really ruined large swaths of reddit, default subs like r/movies in...

    Yeah the idea of containment subs, if anyone ever actually believed in them and they weren't just an excuse for being lazy, has really ruined large swaths of reddit, default subs like r/movies in particular. I don't know how anyone could think giving fascists a place to organize on your site will make them less pervasive than banning them, but I guess they do buy a lot of gold and view a lot of ads.

    67 votes
    1. [17]
      frickindeal Link Parent
      It just shows the hypocrisy of reddit leadership. Advertisers won't like r/creepshots or r/jailbait, or even r/FatPeopleHate, but they're fine with fascists, white supremacists, racists,...

      It just shows the hypocrisy of reddit leadership. Advertisers won't like r/creepshots or r/jailbait, or even r/FatPeopleHate, but they're fine with fascists, white supremacists, racists, anti-Semites and the like? I've seen the highly downvoted "when are you going to ban T_D for radicalizing young white men" copypasta posts on any admin announcement, but they have a good point: reddit is facilitating the organization of large groups of people with hate and destruction on their collective minds, in far more than just T_D, and even with their new advertising-friendly "redesign," they still don't seem concerned about it. It's going to take another popular article like the one that outed that mod of r/jailbait to get them to even pay attention.

      42 votes
      1. [8]
        Amarok Link Parent
        Rage drives traffic. I think reddit corporate knows this and is taking willful advantage of it for the clicks it generates just to pad their advertising numbers and appear sexy for their shitty...

        Rage drives traffic. I think reddit corporate knows this and is taking willful advantage of it for the clicks it generates just to pad their advertising numbers and appear sexy for their shitty clickbait overlords. It only works for a while, though - eventually the fatigue sets in and everyone leaves.

        35 votes
        1. [7]
          vxx Link Parent
          Recently, I started to think that it goes way deeper. I expect them to get money directly from mindfactories that are out to radicalise people. I just doubt that they would ignore the real value...

          Recently, I started to think that it goes way deeper. I expect them to get money directly from mindfactories that are out to radicalise people. I just doubt that they would ignore the real value of their propaganda tool, especially since the approach to monetize it with ads has been failing for a lot of years now.

          9 votes
          1. [5]
            dubteedub Link Parent
            Some of Reddit's largest investors are altright techbros like Peter Thiel. Jared Kushner's brother is also a large investor in the site. Spez himself is a doomsday prepper. Even Reddit's Board...

            Some of Reddit's largest investors are altright techbros like Peter Thiel. Jared Kushner's brother is also a large investor in the site. Spez himself is a doomsday prepper.

            Even Reddit's Board member and lead investor Sam Altman thinks that "we have to allow people to say disparaging things about gay people if we want them to be able to say novel things about physics"

            https://www.reddit.com/r/AgainstHateSubreddits/comments/8rzm5g/reddits_board_member_and_lead_investor_sam_altman/

            26 votes
            1. [4]
              vxx Link Parent
              This all is sickening me for a while now. I wish I could just leave reddit.

              This all is sickening me for a while now. I wish I could just leave reddit.

              8 votes
              1. [3]
                sublime_aenima Link Parent
                I used to spend like 12 hours a day on reddit, but the blatant shift from aggregating content to aggregating ad views turned me off. I deleted my main account almost a year ago and really only go...

                I used to spend like 12 hours a day on reddit, but the blatant shift from aggregating content to aggregating ad views turned me off. I deleted my main account almost a year ago and really only go there now for a small handful of subs. With tildes growing, I find myself going to reddit less and less. The hardest part is figuring out something else to kill time while at work

                10 votes
                1. vxx Link Parent
                  I was pretty much the same and spent a lot of time on reddit. The last year, I've only been active on 2 subs really amd recently I just check reddit for a couple of minutes everyday. Havin tildes...

                  I was pretty much the same and spent a lot of time on reddit. The last year, I've only been active on 2 subs really amd recently I just check reddit for a couple of minutes everyday.

                  Havin tildes as a comparison now, I'm visiting it less and less.

                  5 votes
                2. Amarok Link Parent
                  Mine the quiet still sane corners of reddit for good content to share here. The good stuff never makes it anywhere near reddit's front page / popular areas. That's how I split my time.

                  Mine the quiet still sane corners of reddit for good content to share here. The good stuff never makes it anywhere near reddit's front page / popular areas. That's how I split my time.

                  3 votes
          2. sublime_aenima Link Parent
            It ties in with the new lack of vote manipulation. It starts with allowing brigading and “upvote for x” and pretty soon it’ll be Twitter and Facebook and Reddit with propogandists fueling each...

            It ties in with the new lack of vote manipulation. It starts with allowing brigading and “upvote for x” and pretty soon it’ll be Twitter and Facebook and Reddit with propogandists fueling each other. It was already super easy to game, but allowing blatant manipulation just lets them make that much more money

            6 votes
      2. [8]
        delicious_grownups Link Parent
        My bet is that it will be the GreatAwakening sub that causes the next big change. That sub is a breeding ground for hate and crazy and I think it's going to eventually have real world impact that...

        My bet is that it will be the GreatAwakening sub that causes the next big change. That sub is a breeding ground for hate and crazy and I think it's going to eventually have real world impact that will give Reddit the kind of attention that it desperately doesn't want

        19 votes
        1. [8]
          Comment deleted by author
          Link Parent
          1. [7]
            smoontjes Link Parent
            Have you got a link to that?

            It got mentioned on vice news tonight, only a matter of time now.

            Have you got a link to that?

            3 votes
            1. [6]
              dubteedub (edited ) Link Parent
              I saw it on NBC this week https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/youtube-search-results-list-celebrities-hijacked-conspiracy-theorists-n895926 Edit: Also on MSNBC yesterday...
              6 votes
              1. [4]
                smoontjes Link Parent
                Thank you. This is some pretty scary stuff.

                Thank you.

                This is some pretty scary stuff.

                4 votes
                1. [3]
                  frostycakes (edited ) Link Parent
                  Putting aside the QAnon insanity, this guy's shirt is nutty and horrifying in its own right.

                  Putting aside the QAnon insanity, this guy's shirt is nutty and horrifying in its own right.

                  3 votes
                  1. [2]
                    smoontjes Link Parent
                    I'm not American - what is the 14th amendment?

                    I'm not American - what is the 14th amendment?

                    3 votes
                    1. Bahamut Link Parent
                      The 14th amendment does a lot of things, but the shirt is probably referencing Rowe V Wade, a case where the Supreme Court of the US ruled that the 14th amendment protects a woman's right to an...

                      The 14th amendment does a lot of things, but the shirt is probably referencing Rowe V Wade, a case where the Supreme Court of the US ruled that the 14th amendment protects a woman's right to an abortion.

                      2 votes
              2. NoblePath Link Parent
                Also npr (sorry no link).

                Also npr (sorry no link).

                2 votes
    2. [2]
      lars Link Parent
      And this ties into how certain Subs will go against certain types of people. Personal finance will eat certain types of users alive. So will legal advice. It's all just misdirected anger at this...

      And this ties into how certain Subs will go against certain types of people. Personal finance will eat certain types of users alive. So will legal advice. It's all just misdirected anger at this point.

      Someone posts in personal finance asking how to get out of some situation that wasn't their fault, and it's just nothing but people shiting all over them and telling them 50 different ways they could have avoided it.

      Someone mentioned having to dip into their HSA and was asking about taxes and methods to get on a payment plan because they were so much and people were literally commenting, "You're an idiot. This could have all been avoided if you understood how much the penalties would be." And I'm just thinking, how does knowing exactly what the taxes were going to be make them need that money in any less. How is that going to reverse time and make them not need the money to where they have to take it out. It doesn't matter if they understood or didn't understand how much it was going to be, because they didn't have a choice they, needed the money regardless. Understanding the taxes and how much it was going to be didn't magically make them not need the money. Cut them a break. People screw up.

      Legal advice is just one big shit on everybody free for all.

      And please excuse my negativity and my bad language, it's just a major issue with me just to see all that misdirected anger. And then you have those instances where the user gets irritated and says one thing back, and the next thing you know the mods are banning them.

      21 votes
      1. papasquat Link Parent
        I think people just like getting their two cents in no matter what. It's pretty irritating when the same exact unhelpful thing has been said 25 times, but someone can't contain themselves and has...

        I think people just like getting their two cents in no matter what. It's pretty irritating when the same exact unhelpful thing has been said 25 times, but someone can't contain themselves and has to get their word in.

        I don't know if it's voting systems that cause or encourage that behavior, or if it's just standard mob mentality, but it's one of the worst parts of discussion boards in general.

        5 votes
    3. [6]
      delicious_grownups Link Parent
      I remember reading that they found that banning those subs like FPH and CT didn't have the flood-gate affect that was often cited as being the integral reason why people wanted to keep those subs.

      I remember reading that they found that banning those subs like FPH and CT didn't have the flood-gate affect that was often cited as being the integral reason why people wanted to keep those subs.

      14 votes
      1. [3]
        lars Link Parent
        FPH wasn't even that terrible. I mean compared to other subs it was about the same level of toxicity. I don't know what CT was.

        FPH wasn't even that terrible. I mean compared to other subs it was about the same level of toxicity. I don't know what CT was.

        2 votes
        1. apoctr Link Parent
          I believe they're talking about r/CoonTown, coon being a racist term for black people.

          I believe they're talking about r/CoonTown, coon being a racist term for black people.

          6 votes
        2. delicious_grownups Link Parent
          Think raccoon without the "rac" and the T stood for "town"

          Think raccoon without the "rac" and the T stood for "town"

    4. [7]
      Kijafa Link Parent
      People still try to push that "containment board" nonsense. And the thing is that containment boards act more like an infection. You don't give an infection somewhere to live and thrive, because...

      People still try to push that "containment board" nonsense. And the thing is that containment boards act more like an infection. You don't give an infection somewhere to live and thrive, because it'll just spread.

      13 votes
      1. [4]
        BlackLedger Link Parent
        Right. If it was actually "containment" then, at a minimum, posting there would prevent you posting anywhere else. Obviously, that can be circumvented but it's at least a start.

        Right. If it was actually "containment" then, at a minimum, posting there would prevent you posting anywhere else. Obviously, that can be circumvented but it's at least a start.

        6 votes
        1. [2]
          lars Link Parent
          I commented in FPH once. It wasn't a bad comment. More of a "Whoa, really?" kind of comment. I got banned from about a dozen subs, and none would un-ban me. Saying I participated in hate subs.

          I commented in FPH once. It wasn't a bad comment. More of a "Whoa, really?" kind of comment. I got banned from about a dozen subs, and none would un-ban me. Saying I participated in hate subs.

          4 votes
          1. Octofox Link Parent
            My old reddit account is banned from something like 50 subreddits I have never been to.

            My old reddit account is banned from something like 50 subreddits I have never been to.

      2. [2]
        halfjew22 Link Parent
        I've thought of a way where containment boards and allowing absolute free speech can actually work to help filter out content from people who are just utter assholes. Imagine this and let me know...

        I've thought of a way where containment boards and allowing absolute free speech can actually work to help filter out content from people who are just utter assholes.

        Imagine this and let me know what you think:

        1. Allow everyone to participate wherever they please, regardless of how bigoted
        2. Keep a running record of 'hateful' or 'abrasive' keywords.
        3. Allow individual users to configure how much of those hateful or abrasive keywords they're willing to tolerate
        4. If a user surpasses those thresholds, the offender's content will not be shown to the user who chose to filter that content

        Thoughts? Do you think this solves the problem? One thing is certain - kicking people off of websites because they are sick will just send them somewhere else, and perhaps even give them more attention than they deserve.

        3 votes
        1. DashEquals Link Parent
          I think the problem is that containment boards don't just contain users, they attract them. If you have r/fatpeoplehate to contain those that hate fat people, it will also attract more users that...

          I think the problem is that containment boards don't just contain users, they attract them. If you have r/fatpeoplehate to contain those that hate fat people, it will also attract more users that hate fat people to your site. There's no possible way to fix that system except for having the boards on a totally unrelated site (which is the same things as banning the boards from yours).

          5 votes
  2. [17]
    pleure Link
    It really is ridiculous, I wouldn't even consider myself that progressive on lgbt / gender / etc issues but even my milquetoast views like "we should be nice to trans people" and "women are just...

    It really is ridiculous, I wouldn't even consider myself that progressive on lgbt / gender / etc issues but even my milquetoast views like "we should be nice to trans people" and "women are just as varied in personality and character as men so you shouldn't stereotype them" are considered radical or even "dangerous" by a substantial portion of the reddit user base.

    47 votes
    1. [12]
      StellarTabi Link Parent
      It truly is sad that "don't be mean to women and minorities" is seen as dangerous and fringe.

      It truly is sad that "don't be mean to women and minorities" is seen as dangerous and fringe.

      36 votes
      1. [9]
        temporalarcheologist Link Parent
        which is why boards like r/socialistRA pop up, not saying that SRA is in the wrong, but radicals spur more radicals on the opposite side. T_D, GreatAwakening, TumblrInAction, CringeAnarchy,...

        which is why boards like r/socialistRA pop up, not saying that SRA is in the wrong, but radicals spur more radicals on the opposite side. T_D, GreatAwakening, TumblrInAction, CringeAnarchy, Conservative, and MGTOW all really need to go or be drastically changed or they are going to overwhelm moderate boards.

        10 votes
        1. [7]
          Belds (edited ) Link Parent
          This is the problem for sure. People have different feelings about what is acceptable and what isn’t. The fact that you included r/conservative in there says so much. You don’t wanna ban hate...

          This is the problem for sure. People have different feelings about what is acceptable and what isn’t. The fact that you included r/conservative in there says so much. You don’t wanna ban hate speach or bigots, you wanna ban anyone who disagrees. (Not necessarily you but this is the vibe I get based on comments and the number of votes for said comments on this site as a whole)

          In my opinion, ban people who are being assholes or harassing/threatening people and leave everyone else alone or you’ll end up with a giant echo chamber.

          7 votes
          1. [5]
            Kaono Link Parent
            Including /r/conservative is not out of line when they upvote headlines like: "Feminist Murder Group Plans to Target Pro-Life Congressman in AMC TV Show" It would be great if /r/conservative were...

            Including /r/conservative is not out of line when they upvote headlines like:

            "Feminist Murder Group Plans to Target Pro-Life Congressman in AMC TV Show"

            It would be great if /r/conservative were a place for people to be intellectually honest and discuss the pros of conservativism. That sub is not that place though. It's a subset of T_D.

            18 votes
            1. [4]
              Belds Link Parent
              I’m confused, they’re talking about a tv show? Why would that mean they should be banned from reddit? And if you’re looking for intellectually honest then you might as well ban the majority of...

              I’m confused, they’re talking about a tv show? Why would that mean they should be banned from reddit? And if you’re looking for intellectually honest then you might as well ban the majority of reddit. You can find little pockets of that here and there but it’s certainly not the majority. In that case it’s interesting that you only mentioned the questionable subs that lean right and not r/politics, latestagecapitalism and similar subs.

              3 votes
              1. [3]
                Kaono Link Parent
                We're talking about hateful speech and bigotry. All subs that espouse it need to go. I responded to you to illuminate why /r/conservative often fits into the above category. It was a quick example...

                We're talking about hateful speech and bigotry. All subs that espouse it need to go.

                I responded to you to illuminate why /r/conservative often fits into the above category. It was a quick example drawn from their front page. There are plenty more to find for those willing to dive deeper.

                I am not the original person you responded to, so have no comment on why they did not mention the other subs you listed.

                15 votes
                1. [2]
                  Belds Link Parent
                  But if you’re agreeing that conservative should be banned and you provide an example, that example should showcase the problem you’re talking about. Just because you don’t like the topic that you...

                  But if you’re agreeing that conservative should be banned and you provide an example, that example should showcase the problem you’re talking about. Just because you don’t like the topic that you mentioned doesn’t mean it’s hate speech.

                  1 vote
                  1. Kaono Link Parent
                    You're the only one here using the words "hate speech".

                    You're the only one here using the words "hate speech".

                    2 votes
          2. Mango Link Parent
            I was going to disagree, but I looked into it more first and now I'm inclined to agree with you. There's a more sizable difference in rhetoric between /r/t_d and /r/conservative that I remembered.

            I was going to disagree, but I looked into it more first and now I'm inclined to agree with you. There's a more sizable difference in rhetoric between /r/t_d and /r/conservative that I remembered.

            5 votes
        2. papasquat Link Parent
          I actually used to like TIA when it just showcased absolutely ridiculous groups of people like otherkin talking about how they're just as oppressed as black people, or TERFs, or the shoplifting...

          I actually used to like TIA when it just showcased absolutely ridiculous groups of people like otherkin talking about how they're just as oppressed as black people, or TERFs, or the shoplifting community, but over the past few years, it's just become another alt-right bastion to shit on people who are different from them. It seems like any sub that has a tenancy to criticise people who are leftists for any reason eventually just gets this unstoppable creep towards radicalism.

          7 votes
      2. BlackLedger Link Parent
        It's nuts. I grew up around conservative politics (at least by Canadian standards) and would describe myself as somewhat right of center by that metric. By circumstance, my family situation is...

        It's nuts. I grew up around conservative politics (at least by Canadian standards) and would describe myself as somewhat right of center by that metric. By circumstance, my family situation is very "patriarchal", as I'm an expat and my wife doesn't have a work permit where we live. This would put us well toward the conservative/traditional side by normal standards, but by reddit standards it is like I live in a hippy commune.

        3 votes
      3. Belds Link Parent
        But obviously that’s not seen as dangerous or fringe to the vast majority of people. Just because you can find a few people who say that on a site with over a hundred million users doesn’t mean...

        But obviously that’s not seen as dangerous or fringe to the vast majority of people. Just because you can find a few people who say that on a site with over a hundred million users doesn’t mean that a sizable amount of people think that way.

        2 votes
    2. Mango Link Parent
      Yeah for real. I get a lot of my memes there from like /r/TrollXChromosomes. I'm not even female, but it's like at least a place where people are pretty decent to each other as long as you're nice.

      Yeah for real. I get a lot of my memes there from like /r/TrollXChromosomes. I'm not even female, but it's like at least a place where people are pretty decent to each other as long as you're nice.

      10 votes
    3. NessY Link Parent
      What subs did you usually go to on Reddit? I've been on reddit for 7+ years and by this point I'm out of nearly every default sub into the smaller niche ones that I only explicitly care about and...

      What subs did you usually go to on Reddit? I've been on reddit for 7+ years and by this point I'm out of nearly every default sub into the smaller niche ones that I only explicitly care about and there's very little of that in my daily viewing. Definitely non-zero, but compared to the horror stories here I have to assume most people are strolling the front page of /r/all.

      10 votes
    4. [2]
      Askme_about_penguins Link Parent
      Where? Maybe on more radical subs that deal with “male vs female” topics? I've never had this same experience. If anything, it's the contrary, with people always reminding others not to put women...

      but even my milquetoast views like "we should be nice to trans people" and "women are just as varied in personality and character as men so you shouldn't stereotype them" are considered radical or even "dangerous" by a substantial portion of the reddit user base.

      Where? Maybe on more radical subs that deal with “male vs female” topics?

      I've never had this same experience. If anything, it's the contrary, with people always reminding others not to put women on a pedestal and reminding them they are human beings (with faults and strengths) just as men are. But I also tend to avoid subs that treat these topics.

      4 votes
      1. Diet_Coke Link Parent
        I have had people argue with me in /r/Askreddit and in my local subreddit when I said the best way to react to multiple women independently claiming the same guy assaulted them in the same way was...

        Where? Maybe on more radical subs that deal with “male vs female” topics?

        I have had people argue with me in /r/Askreddit and in my local subreddit when I said the best way to react to multiple women independently claiming the same guy assaulted them in the same way was to believe the women. When I said I wouldn't go to that guy's restaurant as a result I was told I was basically in a lynch mob. Seriously.

        I've seen people on my local subreddit say - without anyone else saying anything to them - that BLM wants black men to only be arrested 'when they want to be' and that protesters who block highways should be run over.

        It's a deep rot in the whole website, or really more correctly the culture of young white men who make up the majority of Reddit. Reddit is just a mirror.

        5 votes
  3. [4]
    IwataFan Link
    One day a long time ago, I went to college. It was the first day, and it so happened that one of my friends happened to go to this same college, 1,000 miles away from home. He said to me, "Wow,...

    One day a long time ago, I went to college.

    It was the first day, and it so happened that one of my friends happened to go to this same college, 1,000 miles away from home.

    He said to me, "Wow, it's so different here. There are no social cliques, no cool kids and losers, we're all just friends." I was skeptical when he said this to me, as it was literally within the first hour of arriving on campus for the first time at an orientation picnic we went to while RAs hauled our stuff into our dorm rooms.

    Well, a week later, after a bunch of events related to orientation and the first days of class, we all got to know each other well enough and, well, I don't think I have to tell you what happened next.

    We all just showed up to Tildes' campus, but when everyone shows up and we all get to know one another well enough, rest assured that the same social dynamics you find elsewhere will show up here as well.

    It's all about how our communities here get managed that will determine the ideas we end up encountering and confronting here.

    37 votes
    1. [2]
      zoec Link Parent
      And I'd like to add, it's how we, the community, comport ourselves that will determine our experience here. I also think it's reasonable to expect "the same social dynamics you find elsewhere"...

      It's all about how our communities here get managed that will determine the ideas we end up encountering and confronting here.

      And I'd like to add, it's how we, the community, comport ourselves that will determine our experience here. I also think it's reasonable to expect "the same social dynamics you find elsewhere" resurface, but we're not bound to behave in the same manner.

      Perhaps in this small, burgeoning, and somewhat intentional community, it's easier for everyone to cope better and be at ease. More breathing space, maybe. Whatever the reason, I think that we can benefit from the very act of paying attention to the reason why we're here and how we want it to be.

      19 votes
      1. papasquat Link Parent
        If it stays invite only, then it has the chance to stay this way. Once you open up the floodgates, the newcomers start overwhelming the culture of the place. It's happened with every single online...

        If it stays invite only, then it has the chance to stay this way. Once you open up the floodgates, the newcomers start overwhelming the culture of the place. It's happened with every single online platform that's ever gotten popular.

        Maybe if you moderated that growth and kept a constant trickle of new people, they would be forced to adapt, instead of bringing bad habits over with them.

        5 votes
    2. NoblePath Link Parent
      Wisdom. Incidentally this is the phenomenon behind the suggestion the governments need periodic revolts to stay fair, just, and efficient.

      Wisdom.

      Incidentally this is the phenomenon behind the suggestion the governments need periodic revolts to stay fair, just, and efficient.

      1 vote
  4. [8]
    m0rtadello Link
    Yeah Reddit can get horrible. I remember arguing with someone who was telling me that only white mens could do amazing things and innovate, and that everyone else was inferior. You would expect to...

    Yeah Reddit can get horrible. I remember arguing with someone who was telling me that only white mens could do amazing things and innovate, and that everyone else was inferior. You would expect to find this kind of comments in some dark, recluse places on Reddit right? Well no, it was in /r/linuxmasterrace, a subreddit for linux enthusiasts. Here's the link to the discussion, his comment got deleted but you can see with my own comments how the "debate" was going.

    What's so annoying is that, when you're arguing, a lot of those people throw a lot of lies and claims without any proofs and supports, and then you have to either respond to a wall of text, lose your time and then expect to get into a circular debate without end or abandon and then make the one you're arguing with think he's objectively right. That's why I stopped going into Reddit. I check from times to times to see if there's new contents, but otherwise I'm mostly on discord with actual moderated and amazing communities.

    23 votes
    1. MrGrey Link Parent
      I wouldn't call that sub enthusiasts. It's more of a meme convention for people who know that linux exists.

      /r/linuxmasterrace, a subreddit for linux enthusiasts

      I wouldn't call that sub enthusiasts. It's more of a meme convention for people who know that linux exists.

      22 votes
    2. [5]
      snakehonk Link Parent
      I mean, the name itself is a reference to Nazis having the right idea.

      /r/linuxmasterrace

      I mean, the name itself is a reference to Nazis having the right idea.

      5 votes
      1. [3]
        Krael Link Parent
        I think that's a little disingenuous. It's a spoof of /r/pcmasterrace, which itself is a reference to a Zero Punctuation review which sarcastically referred to PC elitists as "the glorious PC...

        I think that's a little disingenuous. It's a spoof of /r/pcmasterrace, which itself is a reference to a Zero Punctuation review which sarcastically referred to PC elitists as "the glorious PC master race".

        Ultimately yes, it is a reference to Nazis, but it's several degrees of separation from the original tongue-in-cheek comment that was never meant to be taken seriously.

        25 votes
        1. [2]
          snakehonk Link Parent
          It seems to me that it's at least a little bit of a dog whistle. Like, sure most folks can recognize it as a joke. But some find it or gravitate to it based solely on the name. Do you think it's...

          It seems to me that it's at least a little bit of a dog whistle. Like, sure most folks can recognize it as a joke. But some find it or gravitate to it based solely on the name. Do you think it's possible that the joke from the original review has been through so many permutations that some people take it seriously?

          2 votes
          1. Krael Link Parent
            I have no doubt that some people look at the name and think it seriously means they're superior to Windows users. People looking at the name and thinking "ah, I've found my fellow fascists"? Not...

            I have no doubt that some people look at the name and think it seriously means they're superior to Windows users. People looking at the name and thinking "ah, I've found my fellow fascists"? Not so much.

            I mean, the whole FOSS movement is rather... communist when you think about it.

            17 votes
      2. m0rtadello Link Parent
        As Krael said, it's taken from the /r/pcmasterrace's name. And trying to link this subreddit to anything racist/fascist/heinous is a huge no-no there (it's in their rules). Altho I would say that...

        As Krael said, it's taken from the /r/pcmasterrace's name. And trying to link this subreddit to anything racist/fascist/heinous is a huge no-no there (it's in their rules). Altho I would say that /r/linuxmasterrace is unfortunately more lax about that.

        5 votes
    3. NoblePath Link Parent
      Every so often I take these people to the mat. I find asking questions to be a useful tool, also hypotheticals. Attempts at empathy really blow their mind sometimes.

      Every so often I take these people to the mat. I find asking questions to be a useful tool, also hypotheticals. Attempts at empathy really blow their mind sometimes.

      1 vote
  5. [5]
    Kraetos Link
    I mean, yeah. Did you see this "joke" today, where the punchline consists solely of "nonbinary gender don't real?" That's it. That was the whole joke. 18k upvotes, gilding, frontpage.

    I mean, yeah. Did you see this "joke" today, where the punchline consists solely of "nonbinary gender don't real?" That's it. That was the whole joke. 18k upvotes, gilding, frontpage.

    23 votes
    1. [2]
      Deimos Link Parent
      And the #1 post on The_Donald is celebrating that post: https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/93zjtn/rjokes_getting_more_woke/

      And the #1 post on The_Donald is celebrating that post: https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/93zjtn/rjokes_getting_more_woke/

      19 votes
      1. Spiraler Link Parent
        I'd like to look at a particularly interesting comment from that post. "Every sub on this site that isn't rigorously moderated by SJWs is low key conservative." Let's assume that this poster is...

        I'd like to look at a particularly interesting comment from that post.

        "Every sub on this site that isn't rigorously moderated by SJWs is low key conservative."

        Let's assume that this poster is correct (and take "SJW" so mean anyone who dislikes bigotry), then that would, if anything, confirm the paradox of tolerance. In other words, if we tolerate intolerant beliefs, those intolerant beliefs will push out tolerant people. If a sub is not modded to remove toxicity and bigotry, then those who don't like toxicity and bigotry will jump ship, making an overall shift towards those who are at least tolerant of it.

        Side note: I'm not saying conservatives are more likely to be bigoted, but that's what came across from the comment. To them, being ok with blatant bigotry is conservative.

        16 votes
    2. [2]
      smoontjes Link Parent
      That post is only 58% upvoted and still sits at 20,7k points. That's insane how many people upvoted that shit...

      That post is only 58% upvoted and still sits at 20,7k points. That's insane how many people upvoted that shit...

      6 votes
      1. EscReality Link Parent
        I will be honest, I laughed. I don't agree with it personally or politically, I just have a really dark sense of humor. So I can understand why people are upvoting it, that does not however...

        I will be honest, I laughed.

        I don't agree with it personally or politically, I just have a really dark sense of humor.

        So I can understand why people are upvoting it, that does not however explain why its allowed when there is a clear and separate sub for "dark" jokes.

        8 votes
  6. [24]
    Akir Link
    Did you see that post about how 538 had that database of troll tweets released recently? It was showing that things are actually getting worse. If things are getting worse in Twitter, they're...

    Did you see that post about how 538 had that database of troll tweets released recently? It was showing that things are actually getting worse. If things are getting worse in Twitter, they're probably getting worse elsewhere.

    Beyond that, the default subs on Reddit will always get the lowest common denominators as their subscribers. It kind of blows my mind that r/blackpeopletwitter is a default sub, because it seems to me that it only exists to make fun of black people.

    14 votes
    1. [3]
      fchu Link Parent
      I don't see how it makes fun of black people at all... It's not a "point-and-laugh" sub like r/justneckbeardthings. I think it's worth pointing out that black Twitter is an actual thing, and as...

      because it seems to me that it only exists to make fun of black people.

      I don't see how it makes fun of black people at all... It's not a "point-and-laugh" sub like r/justneckbeardthings. I think it's worth pointing out that black Twitter is an actual thing, and as far as I can tell r/blackpeopletwitter is like a "best of" of that space.

      18 votes
      1. PostPostModernism Link Parent
        Thanks this was my thought as well. BUT I should admit that I might have a bias about that subreddit as I'm not subscribed and only interact with it via r/all. So maybe a lot of content there is...

        Thanks this was my thought as well. BUT I should admit that I might have a bias about that subreddit as I'm not subscribed and only interact with it via r/all. So maybe a lot of content there is bad but the generally positive stuff gets upvoted to the front page?

        5 votes
      2. dubteedub Link Parent
        yup, pretty much exactly

        yup, pretty much exactly

        1 vote
    2. [13]
      Algernon_Asimov Link Parent
      There are no "default" subreddits on Reddit any more. They retired that concept about a year ago, when they introduced /r/Popular for subreddit discovery. And /r/BlackPeopleTwitter was never a...

      It kind of blows my mind that r/blackpeopletwitter is a default sub

      There are no "default" subreddits on Reddit any more. They retired that concept about a year ago, when they introduced /r/Popular for subreddit discovery.

      And /r/BlackPeopleTwitter was never a default. It got that popular all on its own. :/

      16 votes
      1. [12]
        Amarok Link Parent
        When listentothis was a quiet young sub of 200k users, we'd get around a thousand new subscriptions a day, with the occasional 8k-12k burst if we were namedropped in a thread in a more popular...

        When listentothis was a quiet young sub of 200k users, we'd get around a thousand new subscriptions a day, with the occasional 8k-12k burst if we were namedropped in a thread in a more popular subreddit like askreddit or music.

        Krispy asked us to become a default on May 6th 2014. Our subscriber numbers were around 8k daily for the next four years, driving our then 218k subscriber total up to around 12.5 million.

        The content never changed, our bots performed like spartans and ate up every scrap of off-topic content. We knew they could do it, which is the main reason we didn't mind going default. The comments, however, almost immediately worsened, and on top of that, it seemed like most of the commenters didn't even understand they were in a subreddit or community - it was all 'reddit' to them... and boy, were they ever entitled assholes about it. The mere mention of our rules would send users into fits of rage, so we just used automod to shadowban all content/submissions/comments from accounts under 6 months of age or under 50 comment karma. Funny how that little 50 comment karma requirement was enough to block damn near all of the bullshit.

        Reddit ended 'defaults' late last year. Our subscriber numbers went right back to just above the pre-default level, around 1.5k a day and occasional bursts up to 25k for namedropping.

        The calculation for the default subscriptions is a bit odd - all new accounts were auto-subscribed, but they didn't show up in our numbers as a new subscription until after that user changed something about their subscriptions by adding or removing a subreddit. That was the day they got 'counted' towards those totals.

        For all the talk on reddit about these numbers, they mean remarkably little.

        25 votes
        1. [10]
          Algernon_Asimov Link Parent
          I was on the /r/AskHistorians moderator team when we were asked to become a default. We unanimously voted "FUCK NO!!!" - because of that entitled asshole behaviour you describe. We knew there...

          I was on the /r/AskHistorians moderator team when we were asked to become a default. We unanimously voted "FUCK NO!!!" - because of that entitled asshole behaviour you describe. We knew there would be absolutely no way of maintaining our carefully curated high standards of quality if millions of people swarmed in, most of whom had little interest in history and even less interest in informed high-quality discussions about history.

          I think they got asked once more some time after I left, and the answer was the same.

          Becoming a default was the death-knell of quality in a subreddit.

          22 votes
          1. [4]
            Amarok Link Parent
            Would you have done it if you had bots that could fact-check comments and submissions in real-time? ;) That was why we risked it - our bots could lookup the artists and all their popularity data,...

            Would you have done it if you had bots that could fact-check comments and submissions in real-time? ;)

            That was why we risked it - our bots could lookup the artists and all their popularity data, and make the same decisions we would automatically. All I can say is that the place didn't really get any worse, overall, though we did have a lot of automation work to build those first couple months. 200k subscribers is already well into 'shitty community' territory, another 20 million doesn't change much.

            8 votes
            1. [3]
              Algernon_Asimov Link Parent
              History's a little different than music. ;) It's a little less factual, and a little more interpretative. It's one thing to know the dates of a particular war, it's another thing entirely to be...

              Would you have done it if you had bots that could fact-check comments and submissions in real-time? ;)

              History's a little different than music. ;) It's a little less factual, and a little more interpretative. It's one thing to know the dates of a particular war, it's another thing entirely to be able to explain the causes of that war.

              /r/AskHistorians wasn't primarily about facts, it was about asking historians to give their informed answers to historical questions. The biggest problem there wasn't factually wrong answers, it was shallow comments and jokes. Admittedly, we could have run a bot which removed any comment with less than a minimum number of words, but that would have picked up too many false positives. The next biggest problem was racists, bigots, Holocaust deniers, Nazis, and homophobes - sometimes even the questions were problematic ("Why did Africans never develop civilisation?" was just a Trojan horse for the OP to proselytise about how Africans were less intelligent than everyone else.).

              We just felt there was so much subjective interpretation required of each comment that it needed lots of human eyes on the job. Not that we ever really considered a bot as an alternative. We were not really the type to start writing bots of any kind!

              16 votes
              1. [2]
                Amarok Link Parent
                You set everything to auto-remove and then re-approved the good stuff manually, yeah? We stole that model from you a bit - our bots would remove a lot of comments, but us mods would browse most of...

                You set everything to auto-remove and then re-approved the good stuff manually, yeah? We stole that model from you a bit - our bots would remove a lot of comments, but us mods would browse most of the threads during the day and re-approve the not-crap ones, not that there were all that many of them. Most of our comments have always been variations on ' I saw these guys live and they rule ' or ' this isn't [this genre] it's [that genre] ' and accompanying flamewar threads. The good comments are ' if you like this music check out these bands ' but they've kinda fallen by the wayside lately.

                I think a lot of communities suffer on reddit because their focus is just too general - what exactly is 'on topic' for /r/music anyway? That's why I'm rather excited about the hierarchy and bubble-up promotion model we've discussed here, it seems like it can solve that problem. ~music here is small now, but by the time it becomes like /r/music it'll have spiraled out into hundreds of smaller yet still linked/associated musical communities. That general focus graduates into a sort of gatekeeper status where one can subscribe to get the best of all the children.

                I really want to see that work out.

                3 votes
                1. Algernon_Asimov Link Parent
                  No. We barely used AutoMod at all. Almost all removals were done manually. Things might be different now - it has been a few years since I left that sub - but it was all manual back then....

                  You set everything to auto-remove and then re-approved the good stuff manually, yeah?

                  No. We barely used AutoMod at all. Almost all removals were done manually. Things might be different now - it has been a few years since I left that sub - but it was all manual back then. Although, given how that subreddit works, I doubt they're using a lot of automation even now.

                  If you were auto-removing and then manually approving, you got that from somewhere else, not /r/AskHistorians.

                  That's why I'm rather excited about the hierarchy and bubble-up promotion model we've discussed here

                  To me, it addresses a different problem: group discovery and duplication. There were too many hard-to-find subreddits, which led to too many subreddits being duplicated. Ironically, /r/AskHistorians itself was a duplicate: /r/AskHistory already existed, but /u/Artrw didn't see it when he created his own subreddit for history questions.

                  10 votes
          2. [5]
            vxx Link Parent
            Wasn't it a mod of /r/askhistorians that released an article about reddit, racism and moderation recently? You don't happen to be able to link me to it? I can't find it for my life.

            Wasn't it a mod of /r/askhistorians that released an article about reddit, racism and moderation recently? You don't happen to be able to link me to it? I can't find it for my life.

            4 votes
            1. [2]
              Deimos Link Parent
              There were a couple recently about their approach to dealing with Holocaust denial (in response to Mark Zuckerberg saying that he didn't think it needed to be removed from Facebook). Not sure if...

              There were a couple recently about their approach to dealing with Holocaust denial (in response to Mark Zuckerberg saying that he didn't think it needed to be removed from Facebook). Not sure if that's what you're referring to, but they're good articles anyway:

              9 votes
              1. vxx Link Parent
                Thanks, the first is the one I was looking for.

                Thanks, the first is the one I was looking for.

                4 votes
            2. Atvelonis Link Parent
              Are you talking about this thread? Even if you're referring to something else, it's an interesting read.

              Are you talking about this thread? Even if you're referring to something else, it's an interesting read.

              6 votes
        2. clerical_terrors Link Parent
          I like /r/listentothis and still use it on ocassion, I feel like you and the other mods have done a pretty good job.

          I like /r/listentothis and still use it on ocassion, I feel like you and the other mods have done a pretty good job.

          2 votes
    3. [2]
      dubteedub Link Parent
      I mod BPT. It is not a default and has never been one. The biggest complaint about the sub we get is that its racist towards white people because it occasionally pokes fun at them for not...

      It kind of blows my mind that r/blackpeopletwitter is a default sub, because it seems to me that it only exists to make fun of black people.

      I mod BPT. It is not a default and has never been one.

      The biggest complaint about the sub we get is that its racist towards white people because it occasionally pokes fun at them for not seasoning food or something else.

      The posts on the sub are all tweets by black people and we make a point to emphasize a number of positive and political tweets on the sub as well so that its not just black people memes.

      10 votes
      1. Farun (edited ) Link Parent
        I love BPT and I think you guys do a good job with the sub. The only "big" issues are really when people either get mad at jokes about white people, or, alternatively, when someone claims that BPT...

        I love BPT and I think you guys do a good job with the sub. The only "big" issues are really when people either get mad at jokes about white people, or, alternatively, when someone claims that BPT has zero black people on it anyways and the whole subthread devolves in people fighting about that.

        Well, political threads also often go wild, but at least there is good discussion to be had in those.

        4 votes
    4. [4]
      spctrvl Link Parent
      That's a default sub? Jesus. Maybe the atmosphere changes are coming from the top down.

      It kind of blows my mind that r/blackpeopletwitter is a default sub, because it seems to me that it only exists to make fun of black people.

      That's a default sub? Jesus. Maybe the atmosphere changes are coming from the top down.

      4 votes
      1. [2]
        Algernon_Asimov Link Parent
        No, it's not, and it never was.

        No, it's not, and it never was.

        6 votes
        1. spctrvl Link Parent
          Thanks for the clarification, I wasn't aware they'd deprecated default subs.

          Thanks for the clarification, I wasn't aware they'd deprecated default subs.

          3 votes
      2. papasquat Link Parent
        You should browse the sub. It's not what you apparently think it is. It's a collection of top posts from black twitter, that is, a lose network of twitter users who are black and post memes and...

        You should browse the sub. It's not what you apparently think it is. It's a collection of top posts from black twitter, that is, a lose network of twitter users who are black and post memes and jokes relating to black culture.

        It's not a sub based around making fun of black people whatsoever.

        4 votes
    5. BuckeyeSundae Link Parent
      I'm not sure if that would have been my interpretation of those graphs. Certainly the troll accounts didn't stop trolling as the news about them was so prominent. They continued to perform just...

      I'm not sure if that would have been my interpretation of those graphs. Certainly the troll accounts didn't stop trolling as the news about them was so prominent. They continued to perform just about as they had in 2016 in early 2017 as well, but they have recently banned a ton of accounts so the continued posting from those accounts is in question (and you could see in some of the graphs that the number of tweets was decreasing throughout the end of 2017).

      I do think there is a bleeding effect when it comes to the tone on various platforms (especially of any scale), where a notoriously negative community will bleed into the rest of the platform. I'm just not sure the Russian troll dataset necessarily proves this larger trend that well because it only contains the tweets of accounts known to be associated with ... well, the Russian attempts to influence the American election. Any other bleeding effects to other tweeting behaviors isn't included.

      3 votes
  7. [2]
    wunderboi Link
    There are a lot of aggressively confrontational people as well. Like, it's just normal to be over-defensive / aggressive over an innocuous comment.

    There are a lot of aggressively confrontational people as well. Like, it's just normal to be over-defensive / aggressive over an innocuous comment.

    10 votes
    1. emdash Link Parent
      I think that comes with the expectation on Reddit that you're going to get called out, or because people feel the need to get aggressive to prematurely ward off this happening. If Tildes can be...

      I think that comes with the expectation on Reddit that you're going to get called out, or because people feel the need to get aggressive to prematurely ward off this happening. If Tildes can be fostered to be inclusive, genuinely kind, and in good faith, we won't have this problem :)

      4 votes
  8. blanketNTea Link
    This is why I came here.

    This is why I came here.

    8 votes
  9. [4]
    Algernon_Asimov Link
    If you want to discuss bigotry on Reddit, might I suggest you post in ~tech with a "social media" tag? If you want to discuss bigotry in general, maybe try ~misc. As for discussing the culture of...

    If you want to discuss bigotry on Reddit, might I suggest you post in ~tech with a "social media" tag? If you want to discuss bigotry in general, maybe try ~misc. As for discussing the culture of Tildes, ~tildes is the ideal place for that.

    5 votes
    1. [3]
      Batcow Link Parent
      Fair enough. I chose ~lgbt because it was mainly the completely out-of-left-field queerphobia and transphobia that shocked me (not that the sexism wasn't bad) but I'll keep that in mind.

      Fair enough. I chose ~lgbt because it was mainly the completely out-of-left-field queerphobia and transphobia that shocked me (not that the sexism wasn't bad) but I'll keep that in mind.

      16 votes
      1. [2]
        Deimos Link Parent
        I moved it to ~tildes since it seemed to mostly be "Tildes vs. Reddit". Hopefully that's alright.

        I moved it to ~tildes since it seemed to mostly be "Tildes vs. Reddit". Hopefully that's alright.

        15 votes
  10. [4]
    MarkusG Link
    I don't think this is reddit's problem. Like Joe Rogan says in his bit about vegans, if you get 100 people in a room, 1 of them is bound to be an asshole. When you have millions of users, that...

    I don't think this is reddit's problem. Like Joe Rogan says in his bit about vegans, if you get 100 people in a room, 1 of them is bound to be an asshole. When you have millions of users, that turns out to be a lot of assholes. I guarantee that we'll be seeing hateful content here as Tildes grows and exits its invite-only phase. We'll just have to hope Tildes' moderation system and future moderators are up to the task when that happens.

    5 votes
    1. [2]
      dubteedub Link Parent
      If you haven't read it yet, you should check out this piece that /u/deimos linked in his announcement blog for this site If your website's full of assholes, it's your fault...

      If you haven't read it yet, you should check out this piece that /u/deimos linked in his announcement blog for this site

      If your website's full of assholes, it's your fault

      http://anildash.com/2011/07/20/if_your_websites_full_of_assholes_its_your_fault-2/

      13 votes
      1. MarkusG Link Parent
        That's a good read. After reading it, I think part of the reason reddit can be so toxic is that the administrators of reddit usually don't take any moderation actions, and leave them to the...

        That's a good read. After reading it, I think part of the reason reddit can be so toxic is that the administrators of reddit usually don't take any moderation actions, and leave them to the moderators of the subreddit. Therefore, toxic people can lead subreddits of more toxic people without being stopped by any moderators. Maybe if Tildes had a moderation system in which moderators moderated the whole site, we would see a reduced toxicity level compared to reddit.

        8 votes
    2. Batcow Link Parent
      You're right that people like that will end up coming to Tildes, but I have high hopes that unlike the Reddit administration which actively and intentionally encourages toxic communities, Tildes...

      You're right that people like that will end up coming to Tildes, but I have high hopes that unlike the Reddit administration which actively and intentionally encourages toxic communities, Tildes will show little tolerence for intolerance.

      7 votes
  11. [5]
    star69 Link
    As someone who identifies as generally 'right' - I'm a little shocked at some of the comments here to be honest. If you think that T_D is the worst that Reddit has to offer, I think it's worth...

    As someone who identifies as generally 'right' - I'm a little shocked at some of the comments here to be honest.

    If you think that T_D is the worst that Reddit has to offer, I think it's worth taking another look with an open mind. Both 'bad left' and 'bad right' are equally bad but the left is certainly far more prevalent on Reddit. r/politics, r/news, r/worldnews, r/whitepeopletwitter, r/blackpeopletwitter, r/murderedbywords, even r/pics have a left leaning stance.

    1 vote
    1. [2]
      Algernon_Asimov Link Parent
      Noone here has said or implied that. T_D is being used as a prominent and well-known example of a place where bigotry can be found, but not as the worst place for bigotry. You're correct that the...

      If you think that T_D is the worst that Reddit has to offer

      Noone here has said or implied that. T_D is being used as a prominent and well-known example of a place where bigotry can be found, but not as the worst place for bigotry.

      Both 'bad left' and 'bad right' are equally bad but the left is certainly far more prevalent on Reddit.

      You're correct that the politics of Reddit (and Tildes, for that matter) lean mostly left-ward. However, that's not really relevant to the main point that bigotry and hate speech are widespread across Reddit.

      4 votes
      1. star69 Link Parent
        Let me say this another way.. The venomous nature of r/politics is far more often seen on the front page than T_D. Personally I find the majority of the content on T_D equally deplorable, to the...

        Let me say this another way..

        The venomous nature of r/politics is far more often seen on the front page than T_D. Personally I find the majority of the content on T_D equally deplorable, to the point I have spent time trying to block the sub from showing up on my feed. This doesn't appear to be the case for r/politics where as of right now, the post on the front page has 1.6K comments, predominantly people fighting over who thinks Trump is the worst, or trying to find new angles to hate him from. Even as a non-American - after so many years of this, it's tiring! You say something even neutral about Trump or the Republican party and you're a Russian bot or some other insult. It's a horrible place that I am trying to get away from.

        TL/DR: I came to Tildes to get away from the bigotry of BOTH sides. I hope I made the right decision.

        2 votes
    2. [2]
      anowlcalledjosh Link Parent
      Just out of curiosity: how did you come across a thread that's over 5 months old?

      Just out of curiosity: how did you come across a thread that's over 5 months old?

      1. star69 Link Parent
        I just started on here today after getting an invite and went exploring. I set the filter to all time for a start, then went through various Sub..tildes(?) by top votes.

        I just started on here today after getting an invite and went exploring. I set the filter to all time for a start, then went through various Sub..tildes(?) by top votes.

        3 votes