28 votes

Self promotion vs. Original content vs. Own content vs. User created vs. ...?

This question has come up a few times now in the "Unofficial Tildes Chat" Discord server meta/curation channels, but I wanted to open up the discussion to ~tildes at large so we can perhaps finally get a more definitive judgement on it. So here goes:

What are people's thoughts on using the above topic tags in cases where a Tildes user posts something that they themselves have created, have hosted on their own site (or another), and/or could potentially profit from (monetarily or otherwise)?

Should only one of the tags be standardized on, or is there enough of a distinction between some of them for their use to be situational?

Should such tags be required?

Can anyone think of any better tags for such situations than the ones listed?

85 comments

  1. [5]
    cfabbro
    (edited )
    Link
    posting my thoughts here so my opinion can be judged and voted-on separately from the topic I personally really dislike self promotion, since there is a somewhat negative and "selfish" connotation...

    posting my thoughts here so my opinion can be judged and voted-on separately from the topic
    I personally really dislike self promotion, since there is a somewhat negative and "selfish" connotation to it, especially in online communities, but not all user created content deserves that negativity, IMO.

    Because of that, the way I have generally been trying to tag such topics is using self promotion only when there is a very clear monetary aspect involved (i.e. the user is attempting to sell something, or promote their for-profit project), and using own content or user created when it's just someone sharing a cool/fun/interesting thing they made and there is no clear monetary gain to be had by them in doing so. I prefer user created over own content but I have waffled a bit on which I have used and when.

    15 votes
    1. [4]
      arp242
      Link Parent
      "Self promotion" guesses at the intent and motivation of the user, whereas "own content" or "user created" are neutral factual statements. I would not be a fan regardless of any negative...

      "Self promotion" guesses at the intent and motivation of the user, whereas "own content" or "user created" are neutral factual statements. I would not be a fan regardless of any negative connotation "self promotion" may or may not have.

      8 votes
      1. [3]
        cfabbro
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        Yeah, TBH the more I think about it (largely thanks to you expressing your concerns with the tag throughout this topic) the more I think doing away with self promotion altogether is probably the...

        Yeah, TBH the more I think about it (largely thanks to you expressing your concerns with the tag throughout this topic) the more I think doing away with self promotion altogether is probably the healthier/wiser choice for the community as a whole.

        p.s. Sorry if I came across as unduly harsh or directing my concerns/criticisms towards you or your submissions in our discussion about it below, as that was not my intent. I have enjoyed your posts here and wouldn't want to discourage you from posting any more in any way, regardless of the small and unobtrusive ad you have on your blog. ;)

        3 votes
        1. [2]
          hungariantoast
          Link Parent
          Indeed, we spent all this time thinking and talking about how we could tag things, only one of us bothered to question if we should. I'm down for just doing away with the self-promotion tag...

          Indeed, we spent all this time thinking and talking about how we could tag things, only one of us bothered to question if we should.

          I'm down for just doing away with the self-promotion tag entirely.

          However, I would still like to have some tag for identifying topics as user created, at the very least so that I can search and sort through them (because people are neat).

          3 votes
          1. cfabbro
            (edited )
            Link Parent
            Yeah, the last thing I want to do is discourage people from posting stuff they made that they feel is worthy of being shared, and tagging their submissions with self promotion would likely do...

            Yeah, the last thing I want to do is discourage people from posting stuff they made that they feel is worthy of being shared, and tagging their submissions with self promotion would likely do exactly that.

            However, I would still like to have some tag for identifying topics as user created, at the very least so that I can search and sort through them (because people are neat).

            Same. I love seeing other users' work on here, and having a nice/easy way to view it all can be a huge positive IMO. I am still heavily leaning towards user created instead of original content for that though, for all the reasons sprinkled throughout the comments here.

            2 votes
  2. [5]
    hungariantoast
    (edited )
    Link
    I am the person who has been pushing the own content tag. There are a few reasons for this: It is about as good as user created when it comes to explaining who the content actually belongs to It...

    I am the person who has been pushing the own content tag. There are a few reasons for this:

    • It is about as good as user created when it comes to explaining who the content actually belongs to
    • It is not as ambiguous as original content
    • It is definitely less ambiguous and has none of the negative connotations of self promotion

    Overall though, I am fine with changing all the topics tagged with own content to user created. The main reason I have continued to use own content is to add variety to the range of tags used in anticipation of having this discussion.

    That being said, I am vehemently against using self promotion overall. It carries some seriously negative connotations, is a very poor descriptor for every kind of user created content (poems posted to Tildes are not self-promotion), and I think overusing that tag could be harmful to the community. (We should try to make content creators feel welcome, not push them away.)

    In my opinion, the user created tag should be used for any content created by a Tildes user, regardless of how active they are (because some users will use alts to show off their creations, which is 100% okay).

    The exception to using user created, and when we should probably instead use self promotion, is when a user's purpose for sharing their own content here on Tildes is not just to show it off, but to drive subscriptions, purchases, or something else associated with the content.

    So, is @what's markdown app trying to gain subscriptions? No, it is just a free and open source note taking app, user created.

    Is @ThatFanficGuy's online outliner a paid service, from which they make money? Nope. Did they mention a place to donate to them in the topic announcing their outliner? Yes. Even still, I do not consider that self-promotion, user created.

    Does @Gyrfalcon's blog post bombard us with ads or nag us to subscribe to their newsletter? Nope, user created. (Actually, this was tagged own content, but was changed to self promotion. I am changing it again.)

    Same thing with @jmillikin's blog post.

    Is @DaveJarvis's photobook something that we are expected to buy if we want to view it? Yes! Finally! We can use self promotion. (That is not to say that the photobook topic does not belong here by the way, I think it is fine.)

    9 votes
    1. DaveJarvis
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      Thanks for the mention! I'm not sure who has the expectation that viewing the book requires a purchase. The second sentence on the home page reads: The preview is the full book, without any...

      Is @DaveJarvis's photobook something that we are expected to buy if we want to view it?

      Thanks for the mention! I'm not sure who has the expectation that viewing the book requires a purchase. The second sentence on the home page reads:

      The project describes 24 illustrated events spanning 48 layflat pages; see the free version for a full preview.

      The preview is the full book, without any omissions, which anyone can download for free. The license is CC BY 4.0. A low-resolution version is available; I pay for its bandwidth out of pocket. The high-resolution version will be available by building the code from the repository, which anyone can then print themselves.

      With that in mind, yes, an own content tag (or similar) is a great idea. +1

      4 votes
    2. [3]
      Algernon_Asimov
      Link Parent
      Just to be difficult (because that's what I do best!)... This post and this post are my own content. :) When someone links to their own blog, instead of making a text post here on Tildes, what are...

      Just to be difficult (because that's what I do best!)...

      • This post and this post are my own content. :)

      • When someone links to their own blog, instead of making a text post here on Tildes, what are they doing if not promoting their blog?

      1 vote
      1. unknown user
        Link Parent
        The word may match the linguistic definition, but doesn't convey any of the correct connection, connotation, or intent associated with the term 'self promotion'. It's an awful term and it should...

        The word may match the linguistic definition, but doesn't convey any of the correct connection, connotation, or intent associated with the term 'self promotion'.

        It's an awful term and it should be dispensed with as soon as feasible. We need to make genuine content creators feel welcome on this platform, and not sully good-faith work with monetary-driven/selfish shots across the bow.

        7 votes
      2. [2]
        Comment deleted by author
        Link Parent
        1. Algernon_Asimov
          Link Parent
          Showing off their fancy site design counts as "self promotion" to me.

          Showing off their fancy site design counts as "self promotion" to me.

          1 vote
  3. ThatFanficGuy
    Link
    I've just realized something: This is a fuckin' language discussion. People famously feel strongly when asked to edit their speech to a certain pattern. I've even written about it here on Tildes....

    I've just realized something:

    This is a fuckin' language discussion.

    People famously feel strongly when asked to edit their speech to a certain pattern. I've even written about it here on Tildes. It's a political, tribal topic that people feel very attached to.

    Sure, I'm okay with editing my speech to a standard I, personally feel confident about. I'll still feel reluctant when someone tells me what pattern to adopt, even if I agreed with it a second ago.

    This discussion must be held differently it is to bear any fruit. How? I have no idea – but there has to be a better way than squabbling over distinctions of two similar phrases. Ask a linguist who actually has a degree, or a psychologist.

    6 votes
  4. [19]
    unknown user
    Link
    I've never understood, what's wrong with oc. It's short, to the point, and most people on the Internet know what it means.

    I've never understood, what's wrong with oc. It's short, to the point, and most people on the Internet know what it means.

    5 votes
    1. [15]
      ThatFanficGuy
      Link Parent
      Problem is, most is not all. A clearer definition is preferable to a shorter one while it's still concise. For your understanding's benefit, this is the variable-naming problem.

      Problem is, most is not all. A clearer definition is preferable to a shorter one while it's still concise.

      For your understanding's benefit, this is the variable-naming problem.

      6 votes
      1. [14]
        anahata
        Link Parent
        It takes ten seconds to educate yourself. This is not an onerous request.

        It takes ten seconds to educate yourself. This is not an onerous request.

        3 votes
        1. hungariantoast
          Link Parent
          The general convention is to not use abbreviations in tags. @ainar-g So, while I think original content is an okay solution, oc should pretty much never be used. (Also, yep, we use state codes for...

          The general convention is to not use abbreviations in tags. @ainar-g

          So, while I think original content is an okay solution, oc should pretty much never be used.

          (Also, yep, we use state codes for tags relating to states in the United States. It drives me crazy.)

          9 votes
        2. [10]
          ThatFanficGuy
          Link Parent
          It's when you start demanding that everyone speak your language that you build a walled garden, and those never proliferate.

          It's when you start demanding that everyone speak your language that you build a walled garden, and those never proliferate.

          5 votes
          1. [2]
            unknown user
            Link Parent
            The language analogy sounds kind of like a reductio ad absurdum, to me at least. I think, what @anahata meant is closer to the “going to Tula with your own samovar”. There will always be a period...

            The language analogy sounds kind of like a reductio ad absurdum, to me at least. I think, what @anahata meant is closer to the “going to Tula with your own samovar”. There will always be a period of friction when entering a new community. One is always required to get a grasp of some basic mechanics before engaging. I don't think learning a couple of initialisms is too much to ask.

            3 votes
            1. ThatFanficGuy
              Link Parent
              It isn't too much to ask. I don't think one should be asked to begin with. Internet slang is not vital information.

              It isn't too much to ask. I don't think one should be asked to begin with. Internet slang is not vital information.

              4 votes
          2. [7]
            anahata
            Link Parent
            Asking someone to educate themselves on something is not creating a walled garden. That's more than a touch of exaggeration.

            Asking someone to educate themselves on something is not creating a walled garden. That's more than a touch of exaggeration.

            1 vote
            1. [5]
              ThatFanficGuy
              Link Parent
              ...on a subject of no vitality to the course of action whatsoever. That's what's bothering me: encouraging Internet slang, most of the goal for which is group segregation. Language of my tribe is...

              Asking someone to educate themselves

              ...on a subject of no vitality to the course of action whatsoever. That's what's bothering me: encouraging Internet slang, most of the goal for which is group segregation. Language of my tribe is a thing Tildes would do good to avoid.

              4 votes
              1. [4]
                anahata
                Link Parent
                You're ascribing motive where there absolutely isn't any. It's not a shibboleth. It's basic vocabulary for discussing content on the internet. You're still allowed to participate if you don't know...

                You're ascribing motive where there absolutely isn't any. It's not a shibboleth. It's basic vocabulary for discussing content on the internet. You're still allowed to participate if you don't know the words, things just won't be as clear for you.

                2 votes
                1. [3]
                  ThatFanficGuy
                  Link Parent
                  What else are we doing by passively promoting usage of Internet slang? A choice made by neglect is still a choice made. That's the point of slang: to discourage members of the out-group to join in...

                  You're ascribing motive where there absolutely isn't any.

                  What else are we doing by passively promoting usage of Internet slang? A choice made by neglect is still a choice made.

                  You're still allowed to participate

                  That's the point of slang: to discourage members of the out-group to join in on conversations of the in-group. It serves to alienate those whom one's own people already consider alien. Sure, you can hang around. Can you be a part of this tribe? Uhhh, no!

                  It's one of those things that define social structure in humans: the use of common language. It's why you feel camaraderie when you meet someone who is a native speaker of your first language. It's also why it's so easy to feel alienated when someone speaks a different language in your country. (Yes, you may be well above either of those. It's still a thing that guides people. It's worth considering when discussing an online community.)

                  Besides. What is the negative of a clearer phrasing?

                  3 votes
                  1. [2]
                    anahata
                    Link Parent
                    You have not managed to communicate the issue you see with this term and I have failed to ascertain where your objection is, or even that you have one worth making. Like with hungariantoast, I...

                    You have not managed to communicate the issue you see with this term and I have failed to ascertain where your objection is, or even that you have one worth making. Like with hungariantoast, I feel that the objection is overblown and exaggerated without any basis in reality. I have to ask whether you seriously, sincerely think that someone on this site won't know what the term original content is. It's not like we're inventing some new term that no one else uses, and then forbidding those who don't know what it is from participating. That's gatekeeping, that's what a shibboleth is. It's something you can easily find on the web with a quick search and then you can participate more fully.

                    This feels like bikeshedding (to illustrate my point, the first dozen results on DDG go into this in some depth) at this point.

                    1. ThatFanficGuy
                      Link Parent
                      oc, not original content. I don't doubt anyone's expertise in the English language to the point where they can't ascertain what the two words mean in conjunction. I doubt that everyone knows – or...

                      that someone on this site won't know what the term original content is

                      oc, not original content. I don't doubt anyone's expertise in the English language to the point where they can't ascertain what the two words mean in conjunction. I doubt that everyone knows – or is supposed to know – what Internet-isolated abbreviations such as oc stand for.

                      There's a baseline of accessible language to maintain where you don't even have to ask Google shit that seems so matter-of-factly to me your failure to grasp it feels almost deliberate.

                      and also

                      If you figure the argument isn't worth the discussion, at the very least don't act like it ain't worth taking. "Your position is shit" isn't the sort of attitude that promotes discussion.

                      And if the next thing you say is "Oh, I didn't say that thing you put in quotes, you said that" – something we've had a bit of experience with during chatting – that would betray a fundamental lack of good faith required for discussions to be productive.

                      2 votes
            2. DanBC
              Link Parent
              Great. Let's have all the tags in Cantonese.

              Great. Let's have all the tags in Cantonese.

              1 vote
        3. unknown user
          Link Parent
          Oh, it's a tag about people living in Orange County! Got it 😉

          Oh, it's a tag about people living in Orange County! Got it 😉

          2 votes
        4. Algernon_Asimov
          Link Parent
          When I searched for "oc" via a search engine, I found this page. It would take more than 10 seconds to read through that list.

          It takes ten seconds to educate yourself.

          When I searched for "oc" via a search engine, I found this page. It would take more than 10 seconds to read through that list.

          1 vote
    2. [2]
      skybrian
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      What do you mean most? I've never heard of it. Is it a Redditism? Tagging it as "self" seems almost as short? Update: or how about "self-post" or "mine"?

      What do you mean most? I've never heard of it. Is it a Redditism?

      Tagging it as "self" seems almost as short?

      Update: or how about "self-post" or "mine"?

      5 votes
      1. unknown user
        Link Parent
        I first met that abbreviation on 2ch.ru, which got it from 4chan.org, so I assume it's either as old as 4chan.org, or even older. Possibly dating to the times of BBSs. Oh well, Eternal September,...
        What do you mean most? I've never heard of it. Is it a Redditism?

        I first met that abbreviation on 2ch.ru, which got it from 4chan.org, so I assume it's either as old as 4chan.org, or even older. Possibly dating to the times of BBSs. Oh well, Eternal September, I guess.

        2 votes
    3. Algernon_Asimov
      Link Parent
      I don't like oc because it's an abbreviation. There was a television show called "The OC". It's ambiguous - it could mean any number of things.

      I don't like oc because it's an abbreviation. There was a television show called "The OC". It's ambiguous - it could mean any number of things.

      2 votes
  5. [4]
    drannex
    Link
    "Original Content" or "OC" Purely, because this is already an accepted language for most of the past twenty years and universally recognized at this point.

    "Original Content" or "OC" Purely, because this is already an accepted language for most of the past twenty years and universally recognized at this point.

    5 votes
    1. [2]
      skybrian
      Link Parent
      It seems rather obscure to me. What evidence is there that it's popular?

      It seems rather obscure to me. What evidence is there that it's popular?

      6 votes
      1. drannex
        Link Parent
        This has been roughly standard on forums since the early 2000s (earlier?)

        This has been roughly standard on forums since the early 2000s (earlier?)

        2 votes
    2. DanBC
      Link Parent
      It's not universally recognised. My first page of Google hits contain at least three different, incompatible, definitions.

      It's not universally recognised. My first page of Google hits contain at least three different, incompatible, definitions.

      4 votes
  6. [4]
    pseudolobster
    Link
    I think the tag "own content" is syntactically and grammatically awkward, but it's what I've been using for content that happens to be hosted on the submitter's site. "OC" and "User Created" work...

    I think the tag "own content" is syntactically and grammatically awkward, but it's what I've been using for content that happens to be hosted on the submitter's site. "OC" and "User Created" work to say the same thing to a degree, but they don't convey ownership and make it clear that it's OP's OC specifically.

    "Self promotion" is distinct enough I've been using it separately. The person who keeps shilling their VPN gets tagged self promotion. A musician saying check out my band we just released a new album would fit into this.

    I think it comes down to intent. I'm tagging these things based on what I think the submitter's motivation for submitting is. Someone wants to write up a long, well thought out article on their own blog that has no ads, that's user created original content. Compare to VPN person whose motivation is mostly to drive signups, that's self-promotion.

    Basically I use @Deimos' guideline from reddit. It's okay to be a redditor with a business, but not a business with a reddit account. I use the "self promotion" tag on the former.

    4 votes
    1. [3]
      Algernon_Asimov
      Link Parent
      I think you mean "the latter"? (i.e. the business with a reddit account)

      It's okay to be a redditor with a business, but not a business with a reddit account. I use the "self promotion" tag on the former.

      I think you mean "the latter"? (i.e. the business with a reddit account)

      1 vote
      1. [2]
        pseudolobster
        Link Parent
        Ehh, not really. It's a wishy-washy fine line we're talking about, but if someone's a redditor (insert tildes eponym) who has a business, that implies they're a tilder first, a business second....

        Ehh, not really. It's a wishy-washy fine line we're talking about, but if someone's a redditor (insert tildes eponym) who has a business, that implies they're a tilder first, a business second. Their primary purpose for being on this site is to be on this site, interact with it, etc. A business with a tildes account whose only purpose is to market their business doesn't belong on this site, and they wouldn't get the benefit of the doubt and a self promotion tag, they'd just be reported.

        The VPN self-promotion example I mentioned is borderline. I'd be inclined to report them outright, but instead tagged them as self-promotion. Here's their post. The linked article was a very basic and straightforward comparison benchmark. The article was clearly self promotion if you know the history of the user, but it stood on its own as a semi-interesting article. This is the ideal use-case for the self-promotion tag if you ask me. It's there for full disclosure, to identify the motivations behind an article.

        I guess now that I've said that I'm going to have to try and defend @nkv and why they're a tilder, tildoe, tildoor, tildee, etc rather than a business. I honestly can't, and it's all subjective.

        6 votes
        1. Algernon_Asimov
          Link Parent
          Ah. I didn't realise that you would use self promotion for the lesser grade of promoters, and you would report the higher grade of promoters. That makes sense now.

          A business with a tildes account whose only purpose is to market their business doesn't belong on this site, and they wouldn't get the benefit of the doubt and a self promotion tag, they'd just be reported.

          Ah. I didn't realise that you would use self promotion for the lesser grade of promoters, and you would report the higher grade of promoters. That makes sense now.

          2 votes
  7. [3]
    ThatFanficGuy
    Link
    As someone who's used self promotion in the past, I don't care. As long as the tag is agreed-upon as meaning "This is something I've created and want to share with you folks", I'm in. Y'all just...

    As someone who's used self promotion in the past, I don't care. As long as the tag is agreed-upon as meaning "This is something I've created and want to share with you folks", I'm in. Y'all just give me something.

    Also...

    the "Unofficial Tildes Chat" Discord server

    Link!

    4 votes
  8. mycketforvirrad
    Link
    I had been utilising original content when tagging, but will go with whichever is the preferred dominant tag from here on out.

    I had been utilising original content when tagging, but will go with whichever is the preferred dominant tag from here on out.

    4 votes
  9. [8]
    anahata
    Link
    I also really dislike "own content". As a native English speaker, it's in that linguistic uncanny valley that non-native speakers sometimes fall into. That said, we already have a precedent for...

    I also really dislike "own content". As a native English speaker, it's in that linguistic uncanny valley that non-native speakers sometimes fall into.

    That said, we already have a precedent for this, one that I've used here and that seems the obvious choice: original_content. This is what I use and it's what a lot of other people use, including on other sites.

    3 votes
    1. [6]
      cfabbro
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      My biggest issue with original content is that it's ambiguous and not very clear what the meaning is to someone not already familiar with the term, since almost all pieces of content are...

      My biggest issue with original content is that it's ambiguous and not very clear what the meaning is to someone not already familiar with the term, since almost all pieces of content are "original" in some way or another, and whether a user on this particular site actually created it or not has nothing to do with that. Whereas the primary alternative to that, user created, is a lot less ambiguous and much clearer in meaning IMO.

      7 votes
      1. [5]
        anahata
        Link Parent
        A ten second search engine query and then you know what the term means. I think it's entirely reasonable to expect this kind of thing so that we can use consistent words everywhere. I've had...

        A ten second search engine query and then you know what the term means. I think it's entirely reasonable to expect this kind of thing so that we can use consistent words everywhere.

        I've had similar discussions with folks about genres in video games, and I have the same view there. It's worth making the new person search a bit, once.

        1 vote
        1. [3]
          hungariantoast
          Link Parent
          original content is probably the most widely used term for user created content on the Internet, but I don't think it is the best term. None of the ambiguity surrounding original content exists...

          original content is probably the most widely used term for user created content on the Internet, but I don't think it is the best term.

          None of the ambiguity surrounding original content exists with user created. So, even if original content is the more globally popular option, why should we give in to Internet trends when it comes to making decisions about our folksonomy?

          3 votes
          1. [2]
            anahata
            Link Parent
            I have to admit that I'm not seeing any ambiguity. And I seriously, sincerely think that people are assuming people are way dumber than they actually are, especially people who are here. Do you...

            I have to admit that I'm not seeing any ambiguity. And I seriously, sincerely think that people are assuming people are way dumber than they actually are, especially people who are here. Do you seriously think that people here won't understand what original content is? Really?

            It's not "giving in to internet trends" to use a standard term for something. I feel that you're being contrary for its own sake without much justification for your objection.

            3 votes
            1. hungariantoast
              Link Parent
              I am not assuming anyone is dumb. Please do not try to reduce my opinions to "assuming people are way dumber than they actually are" or "being contrary for its own sake". It is fine that you...

              I am not assuming anyone is dumb. Please do not try to reduce my opinions to "assuming people are way dumber than they actually are" or "being contrary for its own sake". It is fine that you disagree with me, but there are better ways to express your disagreement.

              I think "user created" is easier to understand than "original content". I think it is much clearer for users who are not arriving here from Reddit and I think users who are already familiar with what "original content" means will understand "user created" easily enough.

              While "original content" is definitely the most popular term, it is not universal or "standard". Not everyone who comes to Tildes is going to arrive here from Reddit or Hacker News. It is a minor point, but I think "user created" is the best tag because it is more immediately understandable.

              4 votes
        2. Macil
          Link Parent
          I've seen the phrase a lot of times before and I didn't even realize I've been misunderstanding it. I just thought it meant something was both new and specifically related to the place it was...

          I've seen the phrase a lot of times before and I didn't even realize I've been misunderstanding it. I just thought it meant something was both new and specifically related to the place it was being linked, not that it was made by the person posting it.

          2 votes
    2. ThatFanficGuy
      Link Parent
      how dare you, my english is perfect

      As a native English speaker, it's in that linguistic uncanny valley that non-native speakers sometimes fall into.

      how dare you, my english is perfect

      2 votes
  10. [5]
    MetArtScroll
    Link
    Here is Tildes' current policy. I really appreciate creative work by other users, and would encourage them to label it in some standardised way (both own content and original content are fine with...

    Here is Tildes' current policy.

    in cases where a Tildes user posts something that they themselves have created

    I really appreciate creative work by other users, and would encourage them to label it in some standardised way (both own content and original content are fine with me, and the OC abbreviation covers both; actually, this is one of the very few features of new Reddit that I do not dislike). However, they may have valid reasons to omit the label.

    have hosted on their own site (or another)

    If the content has been created by the user in question, my previous point applies. However, I am not sure about content created by others but hosted on the user's site, as this would often not be in line with the current policy (it would be promotion of the user's site rather than of the user's creative work).

    and/or could potentially profit from (monetarily or otherwise)?

    This depends on how exactly the content is presented. If the link leads to the user's site with a Donate link in the footer, I have no problem. If the user's site immediately produces a toxic pop-up with a call to donate, or if a call to donate is conspicuously included in the Tildes topic, I do have a problem. There are, of course, cases in between (e.g., a 10-minute video with the last 30 seconds being the author asking for support is still OK with me).


    P.S.

    This question has come up a few times now in the "Unofficial Tildes Chat" Discord server meta/curation channels, but I wanted to open up the discussion to ~tildes at large so we can perhaps finally get a more definitive judgement on it.

    Given the privacy and other issues with Discord, I would suggest that any discussion of this type should be opened in ~tildes.

    3 votes
    1. cfabbro
      Link Parent
      Yeah, I 100% agree with that. I don't think anything definitive policy-wise should be decided on an unofficial chat that not everyone is a part of, which is why I posted this here.

      Given the privacy and other issues with Discord, I would suggest that any discussion of this type should be opened in ~tildes.

      Yeah, I 100% agree with that. I don't think anything definitive policy-wise should be decided on an unofficial chat that not everyone is a part of, which is why I posted this here.

      4 votes
    2. [2]
      hungariantoast
      Link Parent
      Hm, I don't think that's correct. This is what the policy says: It does not seem like posting links to your own blog would be an issue, so long as you did it in moderation and were active in the...

      However, I am not sure about content created by others but hosted on the user's site, as this would often not be in line with the current policy

      Hm, I don't think that's correct. This is what the policy says:

      If you have your own site/project/channel/etc. that you'd like to share on Tildes, that's generally fine (in moderation), but it shouldn't be the primary reason that you post on the site. Tildes is a community, not a free advertising platform. Sharing your own content is welcome as long as you're involved in the community, but don't just treat Tildes as a source of an audience.

      It does not seem like posting links to your own blog would be an issue, so long as you did it in moderation and were active in the community. Or, is that what you meant to say?

      (Also, I'd like to point out that there is not a lot of flexibility for sharing content directly on Tildes at the moment. If I wrote a blog post and wanted to display images embedded in the blog post, I can't do that here on Tildes, I would have to host that blog post on my own site and link my site here.)

      or if a call to donate is conspicuously included in the Tildes topic, I do have a problem.

      How do you feel about this topic? The author mentions how we can donate to them and how those donations help them. I'm just curious where you stand on that.

      4 votes
      1. MetArtScroll
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        I assume that “involved in the community” in the current policy refers to the Tildes community, and not to the community of the user's site. So here I develop my idea: if a Tildes user who...

        It does not seem like posting links to your own blog would be an issue, so long as you did it in moderation and were active in the community.

        I assume that “involved in the community” in the current policy refers to the Tildes community, and not to the community of the user's site.

        So here I develop my idea: if a Tildes user who operates an own platform sees something Tildes-worthy posted by another user of that user's platform, then I would recommend sending that poster an invite to Tildes rather than posting a Tildes topic more or less equivalent to “Hey, look at that interesting stuff someone posted on my site,” which is basically “treat[ing] Tildes as a source of an audience.”
        —this is what I mean by “this would often not be in the line with the current policy.”

        How do you feel about this topic? The author mentions how we can donate to them and how those donations help them. I'm just curious where you stand on that.

        On my big screen, I needed to scroll nearly two screen heights to get to the donation part, and that part was not specially formatted in any way (as opposed to some bold or even bold italic h2 link at the beginning of the post—in other words, it was really not conspicuous). Moreover, according to the topic log, the self promotion tag was added by the topic starter at the time of posting.

        In other words: if a user is asking for donations, then at the very minimum it should be explicitly stated in the tags—IMHO.

        1 vote
    3. Algernon_Asimov
      Link Parent
      Good point. It's called "self-promotion" in the site rules.

      Here is Tildes' current policy.

      Good point. It's called "self-promotion" in the site rules.

      2 votes
  11. skybrian
    Link
    Hacker News uses "Show HN", abbreviated to "show" in the UI. Maybe a "show Tildes" or "show and tell" tag would work?

    Hacker News uses "Show HN", abbreviated to "show" in the UI. Maybe a "show Tildes" or "show and tell" tag would work?

    3 votes
  12. Wes
    Link
    Have to agree with the others, own content really does not flow well. self-promotion or oc is fine, depending on what the content is (eg. art submission vs promoting own website). I do think...

    Have to agree with the others, own content really does not flow well.

    self-promotion or oc is fine, depending on what the content is (eg. art submission vs promoting own website). I do think disclosure in some form is important though.

    2 votes
  13. mrbig
    (edited )
    Link
    With the exception of originalf content, which has a positive connotation, self tags generally have the effect of devaluing what is being shared. It's the rhetorical equivalent of saying "I am...

    With the exception of originalf content, which has a positive connotation, self tags generally have the effect of devaluing what is being shared. It's the rhetorical equivalent of saying "I am probably putting forth this content because I want to divulge it, not because I believe it is worthy of your attention". Like confessing a crime, but one should only confess things that make them guilty.

    Such tags will make the thread draw less attention than others. I don't think that is fair. Content posted by an author should be evaluated just like the others: by title and content itself.

    So I believe this proposal would harm Tildes' content curation process, and I disagree with it.

    2 votes
  14. [25]
    Algernon_Asimov
    Link
    Did this discussion reach any conclusion? Have we decided which tag(s) to apply when a Tilder posts their own website/page/channel here?

    Did this discussion reach any conclusion? Have we decided which tag(s) to apply when a Tilder posts their own website/page/channel here?

    2 votes
    1. [12]
      cfabbro
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      Well, though kind of hard to judge based on the small amount of votes and comments so far, the general consensus does seem to be against using self promotion unless the submission is a case where...

      Well, though kind of hard to judge based on the small amount of votes and comments so far, the general consensus does seem to be against using self promotion unless the submission is a case where the user is clearly attempting to profit off the content (which is what I was using it for already).... so I intend to just stick with that. And otherwise it seems to be somewhat split between original content and user created, though leaning slightly towards user created perhaps. The terms being synonymous would probably be the ideal, but seeing as we don't have that ability yet, one or the other probably needs to be picked as the standard. I would be curious what @Deimos thinks of them before any decision is reached one way or the other though.

      4 votes
      1. [4]
        Deimos
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        I was somewhat staying out of it, but my personal vote would be no tag at all. I feel like this subject of how to distinguish people submitting their own content gets brought up all the time in...

        I was somewhat staying out of it, but my personal vote would be no tag at all.

        I feel like this subject of how to distinguish people submitting their own content gets brought up all the time in different communities, but I think it's not nearly as important as a lot of people act like it is. Excessive self-promotion absolutely can cause issues, but mostly, people submitting their own stuff is totally fine and should be encouraged, not discouraged. I think trying to make sure it's all tagged just makes people scrutinize everything even more, and increases some of the negative aspects more than the positive ones. The cases that are actual problems are usually pretty egregious and can be noticed without needing a tag or anything for it.

        Outside of the semantic arguments about how exactly to label (which is a lot of this thread), I think there are a ton of edge cases that often end up in arguments. When is someone associated "enough" with something that it deserves the tag? When are they posting things with that tag "too much"? People getting mad because the tag feels like a negative mark on their post when they were just legitimately trying to share something, etc.

        In general, I just think this type of tag has very few positive uses or benefits, but causes a lot of strife and confusion.

        9 votes
        1. [3]
          cfabbro
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          Fair enough, that works for me, and definitely makes everyone's lives here easier. Thanks for answering and sorry for dragging you into this. ;) Although, while not super important, I do still...

          Fair enough, that works for me, and definitely makes everyone's lives here easier. Thanks for answering and sorry for dragging you into this. ;)

          Although, while not super important, I do still feel there is some value in having a tag to let people know the content was user created, to make that easier to seek out for people. Not out of some malicious purpose, but just because, at least in my case, I often find myself curious what others in a community have created themselves so it's nice to have a way for that to be easily recognizable and viewed.

          2 votes
          1. [2]
            Deimos
            Link Parent
            Well, my vote doesn't necessarily need to be the deciding one (and that's part of why I was staying out of it). There are various other users—@mycketforvirrad probably most prominently—who are...

            Well, my vote doesn't necessarily need to be the deciding one (and that's part of why I was staying out of it). There are various other users—@mycketforvirrad probably most prominently—who are putting a lot more effort into tagging topics consistently than me.

            I agree there are positive pieces to it too, I just think it's hard to get those without the negative ones that tend to be tied up in it as well. I'm not sure exactly how to articulate it, but I feel like instead of it being "here's something I made that I want to share" it often ends up closer to "you are required to disclose any personal ties or benefits from your posts".

            3 votes
            1. cfabbro
              (edited )
              Link Parent
              Gotcha. 👍 Though IMO your opinion on even these "community" issues still should, and does, matter... so it's nice to know it. :P That's kind of why I was trying to push for User Created since it's...

              Well, my vote doesn't necessarily need to be the deciding one (and that's part of why I was staying out of it).

              Gotcha. 👍 Though IMO your opinion on even these "community" issues still should, and does, matter... so it's nice to know it. :P

              I just think it's hard to get those without the negative ones that tend to be tied up in it as well.

              That's kind of why I was trying to push for User Created since it's as non-judgemental a term as I/we could come up with, and doesn't have the baggage that Self Promotion and Original Content do.

              5 votes
      2. [3]
        Algernon_Asimov
        Link Parent
        How do we determine whether someone is attempting to profit from their post? If they run a YouTube channel, which gets partly funded by ads, each click adds revenue. Does posting one's own YouTube...

        How do we determine whether someone is attempting to profit from their post? If they run a YouTube channel, which gets partly funded by ads, each click adds revenue. Does posting one's own YouTube video here count as profiting from one's post? What about blog pages that serve ads? Does that count as profiting?

        I honestly don't care about original content versus user created. They're practically the same thing.

        I do care about the difference between original content / user created and self promotion. How do I know when to apply, and when not to apply, these tags?

        In short: what is considered self-promotion?

        1 vote
        1. [2]
          cfabbro
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          As with most things when it comes to moderation/curation, IMO this ultimately comes down to just trying your best to use common sense and sound judgement. If it is a branded channel and/or...

          As with most things when it comes to moderation/curation, IMO this ultimately comes down to just trying your best to use common sense and sound judgement.

          Does posting one's own YouTube video here count as profiting from one's post?

          If it is a branded channel and/or monetized/sponsored video, I would say so, yes. If it's just someone sharing something they made and YouTube just happens to be the video host they chose, probably not.

          What about blog pages that serve ads? Does that count as profiting?

          Also yes, IMO. And @hungariantoast provided quite a few real world examples on Tildes and his particular judgement calls on them, which I largely agree with, but if you have any other specific ones you would like to go over, I can try to give you my thoughts/advice on those as well to help clear things up.

          3 votes
          1. Algernon_Asimov
            (edited )
            Link Parent
            This comes down to intent, though. There's no practical difference between someone promoting their ad-supported YouTube channel, and someone just happening to post a video on YouTube with ads...

            If it is a branded channel and/or monetized/sponsored video, I would say so, yes. If it's just someone sharing something they made and YouTube just happens to be the video host they chose, probably not.

            This comes down to intent, though. There's no practical difference between someone promoting their ad-supported YouTube channel, and someone just happening to post a video on YouTube with ads supporting it.

            This discussion seems to be coming down to the consensus that spam self-promotion is not considered a problem on Tildes. People are allowed, even encouraged, to share their own content here. That's different to Reddit.

            For my own sanity, I'll just stop caring about these user/own/self tags. I'll leave it to the rest of you. That reduces problems all round. :)

            2 votes
      3. [4]
        arp242
        Link Parent
        I don't see why it would matter; if it's good content, then it's good content; why cares who posted it and if they have YouTube ads or not? If you think a user is spamming their own content too...

        unless the submission is a case where the user is clearly attempting to profit off the content

        I don't see why it would matter; if it's good content, then it's good content; why cares who posted it and if they have YouTube ads or not?

        If you think a user is spamming their own content too much, or keeps posting their own low-quality content then you can just leave a comment, which strikes me as vastly superior over passively aggressively slapping on a "self-promotion" tag. For starters, the OP can reply to that, either to explain or to apologize.

        1 vote
        1. [3]
          cfabbro
          (edited )
          Link Parent
          For me, the purpose of applying a self promotion tag is a matter of honest disclosure to the community, not being passive aggressive about anything. If it's good content I can still appreciate it...

          For me, the purpose of applying a self promotion tag is a matter of honest disclosure to the community, not being passive aggressive about anything. If it's good content I can still appreciate it regardless, but even so, I like to know the difference since that often dictates how I treat something. E.g. A user posting their drawings purely for the purposes of sharing or getting feedback, I will likely be far more generous to and less critical of than one who is clearly trying to profit from it in some obvious/obnoxious way.

          It also helps make the distinction between spam and genuine content easier to spot. E.g. A user who only ever posts imgur albums with their art is much less likely to be considered spamming than one who only ever posts items from their Etsy storefront.

          p.s. And just to be clear, I don't have any issues with people trying to make a living from their work or promoting it on the site (so long as it's not the only thing they do here), but IMO they (and we as a site) should be honest and upfront about when that is the case.

          2 votes
          1. [2]
            arp242
            Link Parent
            Posting a link to the NYT or any other newspaper will profit them. I don't see how it's really all that different from someone having some ads on their weblog or YouTube channel. In the end, I...

            A user posting their drawings purely for the purposes of sharing or getting feedback, I will likely be far more generous to and less critical of than one who is clearly trying to profit from it in some obvious/obnoxious way.

            Posting a link to the NYT or any other newspaper will profit them. I don't see how it's really all that different from someone having some ads on their weblog or YouTube channel. In the end, I think it would be best if the content is judged, regardless of who posted it.

            Like I said in my reply to your other comment, "original content" is a neutral and informative term, just like all the existing ones, whereas "self promotion" isn't. I have ads on my "self-promoted" website; I get maybe $35/month from it at the most, which is some nice pocket change I guess, but I don't post anything here to "self-promote" this. It just so happens to have ads, too.

            Besides, traffic from Tildes is so small that you're really barking up the wrong tree if you're coming here to "self promote" anything.

            A user who only ever posts imgur albums with their art is much less likely to be considered spamming than one who only ever posts items from their Etsy storefront.

            I suppose that's a very clear-cut case, but I'm not sure how often that happens? A lot of the examples mentioned I've seen mentioned before are very murky at best (like me posting a to my site).

            What about someone who links their imgur with a link to Etsy? Or with a link to their website which contains a link to their Etsy?

            3 votes
            1. cfabbro
              (edited )
              Link Parent
              Sure, but ideally not the person posting it, since when something does profit the person posting it, IMO it can sometimes call into question their motivations and purpose on the site. E.g. if the...

              Posting a link to the NYT or any other newspaper will profit them.

              Sure, but ideally not the person posting it, since when something does profit the person posting it, IMO it can sometimes call into question their motivations and purpose on the site. E.g. if the NYT or some other newspaper was all a user ever posted and they never engaged in the comments, or elsewhere in the community, that would be a red flag which moderators (and admins) use to weed out bad actors. And before you say that sounds unrealistic:
              https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffbercovici/2012/06/13/reddit-bans-the-atlantic-businessweek-in-anti-spam-crusade/

              I get maybe $35/month from it at the most, which is some nice pocket change I guess, but I don't post anything here to "self-promote" this. It just so happens to have ads, too.

              Besides, traffic from Tildes is so small that you're really barking up the wrong tree if you're coming here to "self promote" anything.

              The amount you make is irrelevant IMO, it should still be disclosed that you are attempting to do so. And that low traffic issue will hopefully not always be the case. If Tildes gets even 1/100th the size of reddit you can bet your ass there will be people on here trying to take full advantage of the views they can get, by any means necessary. And that can often have horrible consequences for the quality of submissions and comments on a social media site if such people are left completely unchecked, which properly labeling content should help with.

              2 votes
    2. [12]
      hungariantoast
      Link Parent
      I went ahead and converted all the topics tagged own content over to user created, since it was pretty clear that was not the popular choice. And I specifically converted those topics to user...

      I went ahead and converted all the topics tagged own content over to user created, since it was pretty clear that was not the popular choice.

      And I specifically converted those topics to user created because, based on the votes, that does seem to be the popular choice.

      I expect we won't end up with just one tag though. self promotion will probably remain for certain topics while another tag is used for the rest.

      3 votes
      1. [11]
        Algernon_Asimov
        Link Parent
        Thanks for the update. Is it okay to tag this post with self promotion? The user has been on Tildes for nearly 3 months, made only 4 posts - and 2 of those posts are to their own website.

        Thanks for the update.

        Is it okay to tag this post with self promotion? The user has been on Tildes for nearly 3 months, made only 4 posts - and 2 of those posts are to their own website.

        1 vote
        1. [10]
          hungariantoast
          Link Parent
          I wouldn't (and didn't) for a couple of reasons: @arp242 is an active user Their stuff gets shared all the time on Lobsters There is not a product or service being promoted in that blog post, it's...

          I wouldn't (and didn't) for a couple of reasons:

          • @arp242 is an active user
          • Their stuff gets shared all the time on Lobsters
          • There is not a product or service being promoted in that blog post, it's just @arp242 sharing their opinion
          4 votes
          1. [9]
            Algernon_Asimov
            Link Parent
            Being an active user is irrelevant when determining when someone is promoting their own wares. We would expect someone who's promoting their wares to be active. A lack of activity means a lack of...
            • Being an active user is irrelevant when determining when someone is promoting their own wares. We would expect someone who's promoting their wares to be active. A lack of activity means a lack of promotion.

            • Most of those shares are by the author, which reinforces the opinion that they're promoting their own blog

            • The post here on Tildes promotes the blog itself. It drives traffic to, and increases readership for, the blog.

            I'm not seeing anything here to contradict the idea of someone promoting their own wares. I'm not saying it's malicious. But it is self promotion, as far as I can see.

            What are the criteria for "self promotion" if it's not about promoting one's own blog/website/channel/whatever?

            1 vote
            1. [6]
              arp242
              Link Parent
              Here's my thinking for sharing it: I like Tildes, and want it to succeed, I'd like to see more non-tech content here; I believe that was a major point from other people in the recent survey as...

              Here's my thinking for sharing it:

              I like Tildes, and want it to succeed, I'd like to see more non-tech content here; I believe that was a major point from other people in the recent survey as well. To be honest I think HN and Lobsters are already great sites for that, so I don't really see the value in sharing tech stories here (not that I'm against that, of course).

              I'm pretty busy at the moment, and don't have too much time to contribute here, or read articles. I'll definitely share interesting articles when I come across them, but in practice that doesn't really happen all that often. While my site is mostly technical, I've written some non-technical stuff over the years too that strikes me as interesting enough to post here (although, I am of course biased on this). Just sharing my own website is just an easy time-efficient way to share (hopefully interesting) content because it costs me almost no time.

              I should perhaps go though my bookmarks as well, as I'm sure there's some interesting stuff in there. But it's a cluttered mess :-(

              The post here on Tildes promotes the blog itself. It drives traffic to, and increases readership for, the blog.

              The amount of traffic from Tildes is hardly worth writing home about: 124 pageviews

              made only 4 posts - and 2 of those posts are to their own website.

              I made a bunch of comments as well on various stories.

              I have very little to gain from this "promotion", other than people disagreeing with me about what I wrote 😅 This, I think, is actually valuable.

              Personally, I like it when people post their own content. I find that engaging with the author is generally a positive experience. There's no "I think the author intended [..]" or "I think the author perhaps isn't aware of [..]".

              7 votes
              1. [5]
                Algernon_Asimov
                Link Parent
                Here's one question I've never had answered sufficiently. If you want to share your opinion and your thoughts, why not just write them in a text-post here on Tildes? Why put them on another...

                Here's one question I've never had answered sufficiently. If you want to share your opinion and your thoughts, why not just write them in a text-post here on Tildes? Why put them on another website, so people have to go to your website to read your thoughts?

                Anyway, this isn't about you personally (which is why I didn't tag you). I'm trying to ascertain some general principles to understand what is and is not considered self-promotion here on Tildes. In my eyes, you're promoting your own blog. However, other people seem to disagree. So, I'm trying to understand what is considered self-promotion here, so I know when (and when not) to apply the self promotion tag.

                1. arp242
                  Link Parent
                  Well, I've already written it. Guess I could copy/paste to Tildes, but why bother? The general way sites like Tildes work is as a link aggregator; I don't really see a reason to treat posts you've...

                  Well, I've already written it. Guess I could copy/paste to Tildes, but why bother? The general way sites like Tildes work is as a link aggregator; I don't really see a reason to treat posts you've written yourself as any different?

                  I like putting stuff on my website for future reference and such (I often polish articles after feedback, sometimes years after I originally wrote them). Actually, a lot of them are synthesised from comments I left on various places, or are posted in place of them. That anti-vaxx one started life as a comment on Ars Technica, but then I figured it would be a worthwhile point to make on my website instead of on the 8th page of an Ars thread, so I ended up posting it there instead.

                  It gives me a nice index of "this is stuff I've written that I think is worthwhile".

                  There's also a higher barrier for publishing something on my website vs. leaving a comment (or even starting a text thread) and I generally put much more effort in them. I think that's a good thing (I have well over 150 drafts in various stages of completion).

                  5 votes
                2. [3]
                  cfabbro
                  (edited )
                  Link Parent
                  The Tildes markdown system is a step above reddit's already in terms of what you can do with it, but this site is not a blog platform or even remotely close being able to compete with a one (or a...

                  If you want to share your opinion and your thoughts, why not just write them in a text-post here on Tildes? Why put them on another website, so people have to go to your website to read your thoughts?

                  The Tildes markdown system is a step above reddit's already in terms of what you can do with it, but this site is not a blog platform or even remotely close being able to compete with a one (or a custom site) in terms of features, which limits the freedom with which one can creatively express oneself here, and limits how effectively/conveniently one can convey their message to others. E.g. These (IMO) amazing recent posts wouldn't have been possible to do entirely on Tildes without hosting a ton of assets on third party sites and being a PITA to read as a result.

                  https://ciechanow.ski/gears/
                  https://dev.to/richharris/a-new-technique-for-making-responsive-javascript-free-charts-gmp

                  And that's not even getting into the stickier issues that typically come from posting/hosting your content on third-party sites, e.g. there is no guarantee Tildes will be here tomorrow, six months, or six years from now, but my own blog hosted on my own site/server will be, so long as I continue to pay for it, maintain it, and have good backup policies to ensure I don't lose any data should something happen.

                  3 votes
                  1. [2]
                    Algernon_Asimov
                    Link Parent
                    Dammit. Written text is so hard to communicate subtle points in! I don't want to understand the technical differences between hosting content on one's own site and hosting content on Tildes. If...

                    Dammit. Written text is so hard to communicate subtle points in!

                    I don't want to understand the technical differences between hosting content on one's own site and hosting content on Tildes.

                    If someone wants to talk about widgets on Tildes, why do they do it by writing a blog post about widgets and posting that blog to Tildes, rather than just making a post about widgets on Tildes directly?

                    1. cfabbro
                      (edited )
                      Link Parent
                      I answered that... and even gave examples to back it up. And the reason I mentioned the technical differences is because those are directly responsible for the limitations I mentioned above. And...

                      If someone wants to talk about widgets on Tildes, why do they do it by writing a blog post about widgets and posting that blog to Tildes, rather than just making a post about widgets on Tildes directly?

                      I answered that... and even gave examples to back it up.

                      ...which limits the freedom with which one can creatively express oneself here, and limits how effectively/conveniently one can convey their message to others. . E.g. These (IMO) amazing recent posts wouldn't have been possible to do entirely on Tildes without hosting a ton of assets on third party sites and being a PITA to read as a result.

                      https://ciechanow.ski/gears/
                      https://dev.to/richharris/a-new-technique-for-making-responsive-javascript-free-charts-gmp

                      And the reason I mentioned the technical differences is because those are directly responsible for the limitations I mentioned above. And as to why people would rather post on a platform with less limitations and more control, I should think that would be rather self-evident.

                      1 vote
            2. [2]
              hungariantoast
              Link Parent
              So, just to make sure I understand your position here, you prefer to use the tag self promotion because it's the most technically correct term, correct?

              So, just to make sure I understand your position here, you prefer to use the tag self promotion because it's the most technically correct term, correct?

              4 votes
              1. Algernon_Asimov
                Link Parent
                Actually, I'm hoping someone can explain when posting one's own blog/site/video/whatever is not considered self-promotion. I get the vibe here that people are against the tag self promotion for...

                Actually, I'm hoping someone can explain when posting one's own blog/site/video/whatever is not considered self-promotion. I get the vibe here that people are against the tag self promotion for most posts involving a user's own blog/site/video/whatever. Fine. I'm happy to abide by the group's agreed standards.

                However, there also seems to be a vibe that there are some cases which should be tagged self promotion. I would therefore like to understand the difference between "user created" and "self promotion". Where's the dividing line? How do I know when to apply the tag user created and when to apply the tag self promotion? Because I don't see the difference: to me, they're all self-promotion. I need someone to explain it to me.

                2 votes
  15. xstresedg
    Link
    I'm in camp "You Choose." I like own content because it's a bit linguistically jarring (as a native English speaker) and stands out compared to user created. I also agree with the sentiments...

    I'm in camp "You Choose."

    I like own content because it's a bit linguistically jarring (as a native English speaker) and stands out compared to user created. I also agree with the sentiments regarding self promotion being related to for-profit, whereas the former two are not-for-profit. However, I don't see an issue with someone using self-promotion for not-for-profit things either. That's a choice on the poster.

    2 votes
  16. Algernon_Asimov
    Link
    An exclusive news article or an opinion piece or a YouTube video are all original content, just as much as a Tilder's personal blog. They're all original in some way or another, whether the Tilder...

    Self promotion vs. Original content vs. Own content vs. User created vs. ...?

    An exclusive news article or an opinion piece or a YouTube video are all original content, just as much as a Tilder's personal blog. They're all original in some way or another, whether the Tilder found it or made it themself.

    A text post is a Tilder's own content and this post is also user created. These descriptors don't sufficiently differentiate off-site content from on-site content.

    I'm using self promotion in the absence of something more appropriate: the Tilder is promoting their own blog/channel/website/whatever. Especially for text-based content, there's no reason they couldn't write a text post on Tildes, instead of linking to an off-site blog. The only reason for linking the blog/whatever is to promote it to more readers.

    I agree a label is useful in this circumstance, and it should be standardised. I've just never known what that standard is for Tildes.

    1 vote