2 votes

Why was my comment removed?

Topic removed by site admin
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36 comments

  1. [6]
    unknown user
    Link
    This post is a train wreck, and is exactly why I oppose “removal reasons” being publicised on discussion forums. Unfortunately it’s impossible for any viewpoint here to not deteriorate into...

    This post is a train wreck, and is exactly why I oppose “removal reasons” being publicised on discussion forums. Unfortunately it’s impossible for any viewpoint here to not deteriorate into bickering—as shown by this post (even from people swearing at OP asking him to leave!)

    I’m explicitly not commenting on the subject matter this post is pertaining to in a last ditch effort to avoid it, just consider this my (and probably a lot of other people’s) opinion on the topic for why removals should mostly be done quietly. The correct medium for these sort of discussions is nearly always private messaging if dispute resolution is needed.

    9 votes
    1. [2]
      Comment deleted by author
      Link Parent
      1. unknown user
        Link Parent
        Yup. It sucks! People can be really hateful when all the have in front of them is a keyboard and monitor. 😣

        Yup. It sucks! People can be really hateful when all the have in front of them is a keyboard and monitor. 😣

        1 vote
    2. [4]
      agentseven
      Link Parent
      If there were guidelines as to what could be posted and there were answers given when posts that clearly met those guidelines were deleted then this wouldn't happen. I am posting this and it...

      If there were guidelines as to what could be posted and there were answers given when posts that clearly met those guidelines were deleted then this wouldn't happen. I am posting this and it appears you have altered/removed/deleted my original thread instead of providing any answers.

      This is going to get all of us exactly nowhere.

      1. [2]
        unknown user
        Link Parent
        So I’ll try to explain from the perspective of an ex-moderator of a fairly large reddit community: guidelines actually don’t help resolve situations as much as people think they do, adding...

        So I’ll try to explain from the perspective of an ex-moderator of a fairly large reddit community: guidelines actually don’t help resolve situations as much as people think they do, adding guidelines or rules gives people and bad actors more space to skirt intent, not less—there’s always scenarios the rules don’t consider, and bloating rules means there’s less chance people will read them which actually makes things a whole lot worse.

        The majority of situations that occur that aren’t desirable on an online community are so diverse that rules don't cover them effectively—consider merely 'simmering combative' users who don't break rules so much as skirt under them, but turn enough people away from the community that their effect is just as deleterious as telling someone to "fuck off", which someone unfortunately did to you in this thread.

        Situations are best resolved by "ninja moderators", frankly. Work behind the scenes, mediation via PM, and banning intolerant users are the best ways I've found moderating an online community works, and it ensures the purpose of the forum is not clogged with "meta" commentary, which can be tiring for both moderators and other users who usually just want to focus on the topic. Thankfully I'm just another user now, and will never ever touch moderator controls on any site again 😊.

        A lot of us have come here to escape Reddit and its constant bickering, so you can imagine trying to introduce bickering 'entropy' as it were won't be received well.

        10 votes
        1. agentseven
          Link Parent
          I appreciate your moderate and well-reasoned response. I was a moderator of one or more large subreddits in my day as well and like you, I want nothing to do with any of that because of it. I've...

          I appreciate your moderate and well-reasoned response. I was a moderator of one or more large subreddits in my day as well and like you, I want nothing to do with any of that because of it. I've been there. I never used this particular alias, but if anyone was to ask me, I could provide credentials and boy, you'd very likely pity me.

          This isn't reddit and this has nothing to do with reddit and it has nothing to do with reddit moderation. In this case, here is what happened (as I see it):

          1. Someone posted an absolutely loathsome article that was written to make it seem as if it was not loathsome.
          2. No one on Tildes responded.
          3. I posted an extremely natural, if blunt and useless response in the thread. If nothing else, I could claim that I was posting my shit comment in the void in order to discourage shit posts like this one in the future.
          4. My post was deleted.
          5. I asked why in the thread.
          6. I was ignored. Somebody was cognizant enough of my post to delete it, but somehow cognition breaks the fuck down subsequently so my post asking why was clearly not enough.
          1 vote
      2. [2]
        Comment deleted by author
        Link Parent
        1. [2]
          Comment deleted by author
          Link Parent
          1. agentseven
            Link Parent
            Oh come ON, more than one awesome thing came out of this thread.

            Oh come ON, more than one awesome thing came out of this thread.

  2. [30]
    agentseven
    Link
    I haven't participated on Tildes since October, 2019. During that month, I posted a comment on a thread that contained a dirty word (and depending on your point of view, a nasty sentiment). It was...

    I haven't participated on Tildes since October, 2019. During that month, I posted a comment on a thread that contained a dirty word (and depending on your point of view, a nasty sentiment). It was the only response in the thread. Here is the response:

    Cry me a fucking river.

    Here is the thread:

    https://tildes.net/~finance/i3g/peter_rahal_started_rxbar_out_of_his_moms_kitchen_then_sold_it_for_600_million_life_on_the_other

    I subsequently noticed, in big orange letters:

    This comment has been removed and is not visible to other users.

    And I posted the response in the thread, which is likely all that you can see:

    Why was my comment here removed?

    I got no response.

    And so I quit posting on Tildes.

    I still check it out, from time to time, I see it is not growing. I see there is now a "progress to sustainability." I was a patreon contributor until October 2019.

    The reason I withdrew both my participation and my support was this:

    No answer.

    It doesn't bother me that my comment was disliked. It doesn't even bother me that my comment was removed. I would accept it if it was considered that comments of this sort were not welcome on Tildes. But I want an explanation, and I asked for one, and I didn't get it.

    I value high quality discussion and I know that that has to by design be exclusive. But there has to be something stated, something in stone, there has to be some kind of accountability. You can't just willy-nilly delete shit and tell your users to suck it, even if it's by omission.

    1. [5]
      Algernon_Asimov
      Link Parent
      Why didn't you follow up on this 6 months ago? Why are you back now, demanding an answer? If you want an answer, here's mine. A five-word sarcastic comment is not the high-quality discussion that...
      • Exemplary

      Why didn't you follow up on this 6 months ago? Why are you back now, demanding an answer?

      If you want an answer, here's mine.

      A five-word sarcastic comment is not the high-quality discussion that this site was made or, that you say you value.

      As for the lack of an answer, I doubt that Deimos has the time or inclination to respond individually to every single person who disagrees with one of his decisions. Even in private conversations I've had with him about decisions like this, I've noticed that he often fails to take the bait. I state my disagreement, he explains his side, I explain why I disagree with his explanation... and that's the last I hear from him. Once, he didn't even reply to me at all. And I understand that (I may not like it, but I understand it). I'm argumentative. I will argue a point until the cows come home. And he knows that. So he simply refuses to take the bait. I respect that. I can't be him, but his way is probably better than mine. (Funnily enough, when I'm moderating and not being a difficult user, I know better than to engage with difficult users!)

      If he had to individually engage every person on Tildes who disagrees with him, he would never get anything else done. So he lets some slide.

      Especially when it's as obvious as this example. "Cry me a fucking river." is not a worthy response for Tildes. If someone can't work that out for themselves, then it's probably a waste of time trying to explain it to them.

      14 votes
      1. [4]
        agentseven
        (edited )
        Link Parent
        I don't know. Why did you leave for several months? Because, that's why. You know what's REALLY conspicuous about this thread? That everybody's shitting all over it, but there's not been one REAL...

        Why didn't you follow up on this 6 months ago? Why are you back now, demanding an answer?

        I don't know. Why did you leave for several months? Because, that's why.

        As for the lack of an answer...

        You know what's REALLY conspicuous about this thread? That everybody's shitting all over it, but there's not been one REAL answer except "Deimos doesn't have to answer."

        I respectfully disagree. There does have to be an answer. Say why. It's OK. I don't care what the reason is. I want to be able to avoid it in the future. There should be easy to understand posting guidelines. If there are posts that go against those guidelines, then feel free to delete them. Iif they don't clearly go against those guidelines and you want to delete them, fine. But explain why.

        Also: my 5-word shit discussion was the only discussion in this thread, so I don't feel I can be pinged that badly for that.

        1. [2]
          Comment deleted by author
          Link Parent
          1. timo
            Link Parent
            Should we assume everyone will just read those docs and subsequently understand that their removed comment did not meet these guidelines? I would argue that "Labels" are a sufficient way of...

            Should we assume everyone will just read those docs and subsequently understand that their removed comment did not meet these guidelines? I would argue that "Labels" are a sufficient way of dealing with a comment like OP's. It would hide the comment and I think for the "malice" label you can add some text. The described comment should be hidden, not removed.

            And I agree with you that a direct message to Deimos would have been better since he would get notified.

        2. Algernon_Asimov
          Link Parent
          Ah, but I didn't make my return conditional on whether Deimos answered a question or not. My reasons for leaving had nothing to do with the Tildes system or how Deimos was running it. When I...

          I don't know. Why did you leave for several months? Because, that's why.

          Ah, but I didn't make my return conditional on whether Deimos answered a question or not. My reasons for leaving had nothing to do with the Tildes system or how Deimos was running it. When I decided to come back, it was of my own accord, for my own reasons, and knowing full well what I was getting into. I didn't demand any change to Tildes or Deimos' actions. I just came back, quietly and without fuss (the same way I left - I don't believe in making dramatic "I'm leaving!" posts).

          If getting an answer to this question was so important to you, why did you leave it for 6 months? And, having left it for 6 months, why are you suddenly demanding an answer now?

          There does have to be an answer. Say why. It's OK. I don't care what the reason is.

          But I gave you an answer. And at the time I wrote my comment, so had a couple of other people. Since then, you've received many other answers. And they all boil down to the same thing: it was a bad comment. Simple as that.

          Also: my 5-word shit discussion was the only discussion in this thread,

          All that means is that your bad comment was more obvious, not that it was justified.

          3 votes
        3. vakieh
          Link Parent
          No discussion is better than bad discussion, and removing bad discussion isn't being pinged badly at all.

          No discussion is better than bad discussion, and removing bad discussion isn't being pinged badly at all.

          2 votes
    2. [2]
      Grzmot
      Link Parent
      I'm not the guy that removed the comment, but my best guess would be because the comment was hostile and not in any way contributing to the discussion. I haven't read the article, but what was...

      I'm not the guy that removed the comment, but my best guess would be because the comment was hostile and not in any way contributing to the discussion.

      I haven't read the article, but what was your comment even trying to say? It offered no worthwhile addition on its own, no one could reply to because you didn't initiate a discussion, and it was in bad tone.

      I can definitely tell you it wasn't the swearing though, I've done it plenty here and no one minds.

      11 votes
      1. agentseven
        Link Parent
        The article attempted to make me feel the pain of a successful multi-multi-millionaire. Here is the first paragraph, since you didn't actually read it to decide whether it was in any way...

        The article attempted to make me feel the pain of a successful multi-multi-millionaire. Here is the first paragraph, since you didn't actually read it to decide whether it was in any way contemptuous or not:

        "Peter Rahal, the 33-year-old energy bar impresario who sold RxBar to Kellogg for $600 million and became something of a consumer products legend in the process, stands in the gigantic, spotless kitchen of his new Miami Beach mansion. Behind him, floor-to-ceiling windows revealed his pool, his outdoor bar, and Sunset Harbour. Throughout the house are expensive-looking modernist metal chandeliers. The kitchen drawers are filled with gold utensils.

        And for dinner, Rahal is eating a can of beans.

        Correction: He isn’t even eating the beans. He’s just showing the dinner for one — chickpeas, eggs, avocado — that he makes most nights."

    3. [22]
      teaearlgraycold
      Link Parent
      Deimos is a busy person and probably isn't completely opposed to explaining deletions. He actually has a great track record with these things from what I've seen. Your comment was likely missed.

      Deimos is a busy person and probably isn't completely opposed to explaining deletions. He actually has a great track record with these things from what I've seen. Your comment was likely missed.

      8 votes
      1. [21]
        agentseven
        Link Parent
        Well let's hear what he has to say now then.

        Well let's hear what he has to say now then.

        1. [19]
          Algernon_Asimov
          Link Parent
          If I was Deimos, I'm not sure I'd want to answer. You seem to be coming at this very combatively. I get a hint of "Come out & fight, you coward!" from this post.

          If I was Deimos, I'm not sure I'd want to answer. You seem to be coming at this very combatively. I get a hint of "Come out & fight, you coward!" from this post.

          14 votes
          1. [18]
            agentseven
            Link Parent
            Who cares? The comment was deleted, I'm looking for an answer why. If he doesn't want to answer, then that's also fine. I'm just here to give him a mirror. I've remained silent since October 2019....

            Who cares? The comment was deleted, I'm looking for an answer why. If he doesn't want to answer, then that's also fine. I'm just here to give him a mirror. I've remained silent since October 2019. Has that helped him any?

            1. [4]
              stu2b50
              Link Parent
              I'm pretty sure it would be the best for all parties involved if you calmed down, deleted this post, and never went on tildes again.

              I'm pretty sure it would be the best for all parties involved if you calmed down, deleted this post, and never went on tildes again.

              2 votes
              1. spit-evil-olive-tips
                Link Parent
                I think you're fighting fire with fire here. I don't believe it's productive.

                I think you're fighting fire with fire here. I don't believe it's productive.

                8 votes
              2. [2]
                agentseven
                Link Parent
                I'm actually trying to help. I confess that this kind of response is not what I was expecting. But if I did what you describe, I would just be continuing what I have already been doing for 6...

                I'm actually trying to help. I confess that this kind of response is not what I was expecting.

                But if I did what you describe, I would just be continuing what I have already been doing for 6 months now. It would be exactly zero skin off my nose. I bring this up because I'd actually like to see Tildes become something.

                1. stu2b50
                  Link Parent
                  Exactly! And it was better for everyone. Better for you, better for everyone here, etc. It's ok. Just leave this place you dislike.

                  I would just be continuing what I have already been doing for 6 months now

                  Exactly! And it was better for everyone. Better for you, better for everyone here, etc.

                  It's ok. Just leave this place you dislike.

                  3 votes
            2. [2]
              determinism
              Link Parent
              I'm glad you're here and hope you get an answer to your question. I'm sure this miscommunication will be resolved with charity and grace.

              I'm glad you're here and hope you get an answer to your question. I'm sure this miscommunication will be resolved with charity and grace.

              2 votes
              1. agentseven
                Link Parent
                Thanks. :) seems like you're in the minority thus far.

                Thanks. :) seems like you're in the minority thus far.

            3. [12]
              Comment deleted by author
              Link Parent
              1. [11]
                agentseven
                Link Parent
                Hey man, I've already been gone 6 months. This is my last stand. If this site doesn't want people like me replying "cry me a river" to naked pro-capitalist propaganda, then by fucking golly, you...

                Hey man, I've already been gone 6 months. This is my last stand. If this site doesn't want people like me replying "cry me a river" to naked pro-capitalist propaganda, then by fucking golly, you won't have to worry about seeing my posts, I promise you.

                1. [6]
                  Whom
                  Link Parent
                  I agree with your assessment of [what i know of] of the article, but no, I don't want to see you posting like that. It doesn't add anything to the site but some angry noise. I agree with you and I...

                  I agree with your assessment of [what i know of] of the article, but no, I don't want to see you posting like that. It doesn't add anything to the site but some angry noise. I agree with you and I have no more insight into my agreement. People who disagree sure aren't getting anything from it. I can't imagine an angle where "cry me a fucking river" would be useful or even just of interest to anyone browsing the thread.

                  I do think Tildes had and still does have problems with not letting people properly express frustration or anger without cries of "civility!!", but at the same time I don't think your comment was in the range of those worth saving. There was nothing productive, informative, or even any context that would let someone know why you feel how you do.

                  I am almost certain that if you had a comment that still amounted to "cry me a river" but instead elaborated on why this person is not deserving of sympathy and the article acts as a piece of capitalist propaganda, it wouldn't be removed. I've expressed similar sentiments in the past and haven't had that response.

                  8 votes
                  1. [5]
                    agentseven
                    Link Parent
                    That's fine and I don't disagree, but this is not stated anywhere. My comment was deleted without comment.

                    That's fine and I don't disagree, but this is not stated anywhere. My comment was deleted without comment.

                    1. [2]
                      Whom
                      Link Parent
                      Guidelines for commenting exist throughout the docs, wikis, and in comments all around. We're all happy to point you toward what you could do to fit this community's standards better.

                      Guidelines for commenting exist throughout the docs, wikis, and in comments all around. We're all happy to point you toward what you could do to fit this community's standards better.

                      7 votes
                      1. agentseven
                        Link Parent
                        I'm sorry, is there a doc or wiki entry that I missed that says clearly that posting "cry me a river" in response to a disgusting naked pro-capitalist article is inappropriate?

                        I'm sorry, is there a doc or wiki entry that I missed that says clearly that posting "cry me a river" in response to a disgusting naked pro-capitalist article is inappropriate?

                    2. Algernon_Asimov
                      Link Parent
                      What do you need? Do you need a rule saying "Comments saying 'Cry me a fucking river' will be deleted"?

                      What do you need? Do you need a rule saying "Comments saying 'Cry me a fucking river' will be deleted"?

                      2 votes
                    3. timo
                      Link Parent
                      I completely agree with @Whom about your comment, yet I also agree that it should be made clear to you why your comment got removed. In that way, you are able to learn from it. One could even...

                      I completely agree with @Whom about your comment, yet I also agree that it should be made clear to you why your comment got removed. In that way, you are able to learn from it. One could even argue that it should be made clear to other users why a comment was removed, or labeled in a certain way. This creates transparency about how bad* behavior is dealt with.

                      • Bad meaning violating site rules
                2. [3]
                  spit-evil-olive-tips
                  Link Parent
                  Here's the thing. I agree with your sentiment. The problem isn't with your sentiment, it's with the quick-and-dirty commenting style. If this were a reddit thread, a comment like that would be...

                  If this site doesn't want people like me replying "cry me a river" to naked pro-capitalist propaganda

                  Here's the thing. I agree with your sentiment. The problem isn't with your sentiment, it's with the quick-and-dirty commenting style. If this were a reddit thread, a comment like that would be normal. I'd probably upvote it. But Tildes Is Not Reddit.

                  Completely separate from the the political aspect of your comment, it was low effort and didn't really contribute much. I come to Tildes for substantive, thought-provoking comments, regardless of whether they go with or against my own political leaning. Your comment did not do that.

                  6 votes
                  1. [2]
                    agentseven
                    Link Parent
                    There was no other comment in the thread. As I have said elsewhere, this is fine, but what is the definition of substantive? Is there a word count you're looking for? I make $50k a year and I feel...

                    There was no other comment in the thread. As I have said elsewhere, this is fine, but what is the definition of substantive? Is there a word count you're looking for? I make $50k a year and I feel like I'm doing pretty good. When I see an article about a guy who makes $600 fucking million in a year and I'm asked to feel sympathy for him, you'll have to forgive me if I post a knee-jerk bullshit reaction. In an empty thread. But again, I'm OK with it, if I would have known why I shouldn't have posted it.

                    1. Algernon_Asimov
                      (edited )
                      Link Parent
                      To borrow from what I used to say on /r/AskHistorians, we're happy to wait longer for a good comment rather than have a bad comment quickly.

                      There was no other comment in the thread.

                      To borrow from what I used to say on /r/AskHistorians, we're happy to wait longer for a good comment rather than have a bad comment quickly.

                      5 votes
                3. [2]
                  Comment deleted by author
                  Link Parent
                  1. agentseven
                    Link Parent
                    No, I did not, I confess. Maybe I should have.

                    No, I did not, I confess. Maybe I should have.

                    2 votes
        2. spit-evil-olive-tips
          Link Parent
          This thread is an excellent example of why Deimos does not, and should not, go into detail on every single moderation decision. Meta discussion like this can get very heated, very quickly. It can...

          This thread is an excellent example of why Deimos does not, and should not, go into detail on every single moderation decision.

          Meta discussion like this can get very heated, very quickly. It can overwhelm in volume the actual meaningful discussion on the site.

          6 votes