14 votes

Waymo outsources fleet operations to African fintech Moove in Phoenix and, soon, Miami

12 comments

  1. [8]
    tanglisha
    Link
    Anyone know if these first few cities are being chosen because they're easier to navigate? Tesla autopilot used to try to drive into the monorail pillars in Seattle, for example, so I'd expect to...

    Anyone know if these first few cities are being chosen because they're easier to navigate? Tesla autopilot used to try to drive into the monorail pillars in Seattle, for example, so I'd expect to to be categorized as difficult. (They did eventually fix this.)

    4 votes
    1. fefellama
      (edited )
      Link Parent
      Miami is weird. Driving is a nightmare given the sheer number of cars and the crazy drivers, but I would bet that this sort of thing is only going to be in very limited areas for the foreseeable...

      Miami is weird. Driving is a nightmare given the sheer number of cars and the crazy drivers, but I would bet that this sort of thing is only going to be in very limited areas for the foreseeable future where high-paying tourists are likely to be (Miami Beach mainly).

      In terms of navigation: streets are wide, no elevation change, and the whole city is a giant grid. It's honestly one of the easiest cities for humans to intuitively navigate, but I'm not sure if that translates well for self-driving cars since they rely on GPS. But being a completely flat massive grid probably lends itself well to self-driving cars. Plus you don't ever have to worry about snow or ice.

      Though I'm sure there are other cities that could work. Miami is probably on the list because of the money and because public transportation there is laughable at best, so an alternative to that might actually tempt quite a few people.

      edit: "Waymo would not share which neighborhoods the company is targeting in Miami" 100% it's going to be Miami Beach, Brickell, Coral Gables, maybe Downtown too. And then a few of the areas in between or with significant recent development like Wynwood, Dadeland, or Midtown.

      6 votes
    2. [4]
      Greg
      Link Parent
      I don’t know for sure, but I’d be surprised if any given US city is meaningfully more difficult than another when you’re training the system to just that area, so I’d suspect regulatory...

      I don’t know for sure, but I’d be surprised if any given US city is meaningfully more difficult than another when you’re training the system to just that area, so I’d suspect regulatory environment and good old profit projections have more influence on the decision.

      Situations like that autopilot glitch tend to be from general case systems getting thrown off by a situation they don’t recognise, and Waymo’s got the advantage of any given vehicle being limited to a specific area, so they should have pretty much 100% coverage for training data. Failure cases shift towards dynamic situations that could happen anywhere (construction, accidents, people behaving unexpectedly) rather than features of the city itself.

      3 votes
      1. [3]
        creesch
        Link Parent
        Weather conditions for one can make a huge difference, most cities they have been trained in have fairly stable weather. There are also plenty of other issues with self driving cars. Not all of...

        I’d be surprised if any given US city is meaningfully more difficult than another when you’re training the system to

        Weather conditions for one can make a huge difference, most cities they have been trained in have fairly stable weather. There are also plenty of other issues with self driving cars. Not all of them are technical in nature, here is a previous discussion on Tildes

        6 votes
        1. [2]
          Greg
          Link Parent
          Weather's a good example of a dynamic situation that does depend significantly on location, actually - I was thinking of differences in fixed geography and architecture when it comes to...

          Weather's a good example of a dynamic situation that does depend significantly on location, actually - I was thinking of differences in fixed geography and architecture when it comes to navigation, but yeah it'd be totally fair to throw weather into the bucket as a feature of the city rather than just an external event.

          The rest is... a much bigger topic that I honestly don't have the energy to get into as deeply it deserves. I very much see the problems that self driving cars could (and probably will) cause, but as with most automation I see them primarily as the same problems we've already got but bigger and faster. It's a catch 22: if we the had the organisation and political will to block the use of a given technology, that power would be better wielded by regulating in such a way that the technology actually benefits the community. If we don't have that power, it's already a foregone conclusion. Either way, I see it as a political failure more than anything.

          4 votes
          1. creesch
            Link Parent
            That's fair :) I honestly feel the same way, mostly because it has been a recurring topic on a fairly regular basis on Tildes recently.

            The rest is... a much bigger topic that I honestly don't have the energy to get into as deeply it deserves

            That's fair :) I honestly feel the same way, mostly because it has been a recurring topic on a fairly regular basis on Tildes recently.

            2 votes
    3. [2]
      stu2b50
      Link Parent
      I wouldn’t say Seattle is particularly more difficult than SF.

      I wouldn’t say Seattle is particularly more difficult than SF.

      1 vote
      1. tanglisha
        Link Parent
        A lot of these companies train their systems in the Bay Area. Having driven in both, I’d say they’re equally difficult, but with different difficulties. When someone can’t find a spot to park in...

        A lot of these companies train their systems in the Bay Area. Having driven in both, I’d say they’re equally difficult, but with different difficulties.

        Speaking of snow, I’d expect the Duluth/Superior area to be one of the last chosen. Hills, cobblestones, regular heavy snowfall and ice, and they used to have to declare a state of emergency most years so they could be allowed to use more salt on the roads. (I believe they’ve switched to something else.)

        4 votes
  2. [4]
    skybrian
    Link
    From the article: … Also, Waymo previously announced expansion to Austin and Atlanta. For some reason it will only be via the Uber app in those cities.

    From the article:

    Waymo will still operate Waymo One in Phoenix and Miami, but Moove will take over fleet operations in Phoenix and help the company build out the necessary charging infrastructure and depots for its fleet of Jaguar I-Paces in Miami. Waymo intends to transition operations to Moove in Phoenix early next year.

    In Miami, Waymo will start small-scale testing in early 2025, with a goal to launch a fully driverless commercial ride-hail service in the city in 2026. As the company tests, Moove will build out the infrastructure Waymo needs to deploy in Miami, per a Waymo spokesperson.

    Also, Waymo previously announced expansion to Austin and Atlanta. For some reason it will only be via the Uber app in those cities.

    3 votes
    1. [3]
      stu2b50
      Link Parent
      Seems like Waymo is trying to transition to be more of a service provider. They provide the self driving software, another company handles day-to-day operations like fetching stuck cars or...

      Seems like Waymo is trying to transition to be more of a service provider. They provide the self driving software, another company handles day-to-day operations like fetching stuck cars or handling customer funds. It’s a smart pivot.

      Uber gets the contract for Atlanta and Austin, it seems.

      8 votes
      1. [2]
        vord
        Link Parent
        See, to me it just seems like a way of offloading the blame when the cracks in the system get worse over time. "You just bought our software, blame Moove for running it badly!"

        See, to me it just seems like a way of offloading the blame when the cracks in the system get worse over time. "You just bought our software, blame Moove for running it badly!"

        4 votes
        1. stu2b50
          Link Parent
          And then Moove can blame Waymo.

          And then Moove can blame Waymo.

          2 votes