About a year ago Electrek wrote a fiery editorial excoriating American car manufacturers, because the car industry was lobbying the US government to roll back the climate/efficiency/emissions...
About a year ago Electrek wrote a fiery editorial excoriating American car manufacturers, because the car industry was lobbying the US government to roll back the climate/efficiency/emissions standards. "Making EVs is too haaaaard", said the car industry. "Americans don't want EVs!"
"Shut up, whiners," said Electrek. "You are lobbying for your own destruction. If you don't build cheap, good-quality EVs, China will. If you rest on your laurels and postpone EV development, you are going to cede the entire market to China. The day is coming sooner than you think that selling combustion-engine cars is going to be like selling film cameras. Put down the dinosaur juice and get to work."
That electrek editorial just kicks ass in every way. Thanks for the link. In fact, the shortsightedness of the auto industry with respect to emission standards and EVs is the same shortsightedness...
That electrek editorial just kicks ass in every way. Thanks for the link.
In fact, the shortsightedness of the auto industry with respect to emission standards and EVs is the same shortsightedness of any business, media company, or oligarch who supports or helped elect Trump and republicans. The chaos and corruption and nonsense is hurting your business and the world. Why are you so stupidly worrying about short term tax cuts and removal of regulations? That’s the path to the decline of civilization. I guess some people want to rule over ashes.
The so-called “super e-platform” will be capable of peak charging speeds of 1,000 kilowatts (kW), enabling cars that use it to travel 400 km (249 miles) on a 5-minute charge, founder Wang Chuanfu said at an event livestreamed from the company’s Shenzhen headquarters.
Charging speeds of 1,000 kW would be twice as fast as Tesla
’s superchargers whose latest version offers up to 500 kw charging speeds. Fast-charging technology has been key to increasing EV adoption as it is seen to help assure EV drivers’ concerns over being able to charge their cars quickly.
Some quick math: a typical gas-powered car with a 16 gallon tank that gets 40 MPG and fills at a gas station in about 5 minutes can drive for 600 miles. These EVs can charge enough to travel 250...
Some quick math: a typical gas-powered car with a 16 gallon tank that gets 40 MPG and fills at a gas station in about 5 minutes can drive for 600 miles. These EVs can charge enough to travel 250 miles in 5 minutes. If we compare directly in units of "miles of range per minute of refueling", the new EVs stand at 50 miles/minute and typical gas-powered cars at 120 miles/minute. That is genuinely impressive how comparable those are. Both refueling rate and total range are actually becoming competitive with gas-powered cars!
I found this on BYDs website a few months ago. I haven't shared it with anyone besides my girlfriend yet, but I need everyone to appreciate it. Introducing BYDs "About BYD" video. An absolute...
I found this on BYDs website a few months ago. I haven't shared it with anyone besides my girlfriend yet, but I need everyone to appreciate it.
Introducing BYDs "About BYD" video. An absolute fever dream of an advertisement, crammed with as much AI as they can muster. It's the most ridiculous attempt at an ad I've ever seen.
"He is the dream teammate you can ever wish for"
"He is the inheritor of our heritage"
"Simply, an unforgettable model I've ever seen"
It’s not very pretty, but it doesn’t have to be. The cars have nice specifications, cheap prices and features that you need to pay extra for with other manufacturers. I wouldn’t buy one...
It’s not very pretty, but it doesn’t have to be. The cars have nice specifications, cheap prices and features that you need to pay extra for with other manufacturers. I wouldn’t buy one personally, but I see the broad appeal. I’ve been seeing a lot of them on the streets, especially the last month or two.
To be honest, seems like any other car commercial to me. Just with very bad English dubbing. As long as I can remember many car commercials are these "fever dream of advertising" as you put it....
To be honest, seems like any other car commercial to me. Just with very bad English dubbing. As long as I can remember many car commercials are these "fever dream of advertising" as you put it. Also, I might be missing it, but I am not seeing much in the way of AI generated imagery?
Interesting tech and it would be great innovation if they work it out. I was looking into getting a new car recently and was looking into EVs. I quickly made the decision not to get a Chinese EV...
Interesting tech and it would be great innovation if they work it out.
I was looking into getting a new car recently and was looking into EVs.
I quickly made the decision not to get a Chinese EV as the amount of data EVs (and smarter) cars generate is a lot. I'd rather not be sending that data straight to the Chinese government.
If I would've chosen an EV I would've probably gone for a Skoda. My data would still be in the hands of a megacorp but at least it would be one that's in the EU/NATO.
I did a bunch of digging on car privacy, and outside of Tesla I've come to the conclusion that any information on actual telemetry being sent to car manufacturers is highly speculative. The main...
I did a bunch of digging on car privacy, and outside of Tesla I've come to the conclusion that any information on actual telemetry being sent to car manufacturers is highly speculative. The main question is: how? For Tesla, we know how and why; they do document it.
When your Tesla is connected to Wifi, it will stream back telemetry data, as well as the video from the cameras for their self driving project.
For traditional cars, it's mainly peripheral data - they'll keep your address and phone and all that from your initial purchase and registration and sell it to SiriusXM to spam the ever living shit out of you. Apart from that? Just a lot of speculation, because of very loose wording on privacy policies.
If you don't download the app for your car, I'm honestly not sure any serious threat about the data your car's instruments has going to the manufacturer passes Occam's razor.
Genuine question - what is your concern with a Chinese company having this "data"? As far as I know my Hyundai EV doesn't phone home with telemetry but I don't care if it does. I know for a fact...
Genuine question - what is your concern with a Chinese company having this "data"?
As far as I know my Hyundai EV doesn't phone home with telemetry but I don't care if it does. I know for a fact that my previous dinosaur juice car (a 2014 Skoda) generated huge amounts of data because I have seen it doing it via an ODB reader so I'm not sure why you're singling out EVs specifically.
All modern cars are stuffed full of sensors and processing for the data they generate. I have no idea how that data being in the hands of China, or VW or anyone could harm me. It seems like that information is useful to improve the next generation of that company's cars, of course. It's useful for designers to know how their products are being used, but I don't see how that could turn into a problem.
edit: thought about this a bit more and I'm absolutely certain that an EV generates considerably less data than an ICE vehicle. Far fewer moving parts, far fewer sensors = less data.
I cannot speak for @Sunkiller, but personally I care because I want a company to justify why they need it and then be subject to restrictions on what they can do with it. I shouldn't need to...
I cannot speak for @Sunkiller, but personally I care because I want a company to justify why they need it and then be subject to restrictions on what they can do with it. I shouldn't need to opt-out of data collection, any given company should be required to justify and convince me why I should opt-in.
I don't mind that my car generates data, I care that I have control of when and who has access to it. For cars that generate data locally and can only be extracted by ODB reader, that's much easier to control. Once that data collection is linked into the internet, it can go many places and terms and conditions about what is done with it can change at any time. Leaving me with the choice to either get a completely different vehicle if I want to opt out, or more likely decide I have too many other garbage fires to navigate and just accept it.
Regarding China specifically, I have a lot of concerns about what is done with my data in the future. I have no idea what they intend to do with any data they gather, and more importantly, I have no way of preventing them from using that data in the future. If they find a use for it 5 years from now that I object to, I have no ability to rescind that permission and require them to delete it (as a US citizen, EU would have better options). Data protection laws differ by country, and I have even more limited options to advocate for restrictions and enforcement of data privacy laws in China than I do in the US. And the US isn't all that great to begin with.
Five or six years ago I got a call from my insurance company offering a discount on my car insurance if I linked up a specialized ODB reader to my phone and allowed the company to gather data on my driving habits. I said "no, and fuck no", which apparently caught the agent by surprise. They where curious about how adamant I was that I wouldn't allow it. So we had a discussion about how the US laws governing data privacy and control are lacking. I would want way more control over my individual data before I would be comfortable with that kind of data collection, like the ability to restrict it's sale to 3rd parties and delete it at any time. I like to think I educated someone even if they themselves have no ability to change anything.
OK, so what I'm getting here is that you are concerned about access to your "data" as a general concept, which is fine if that's your thing - but that doesn't answer my question. What,...
OK, so what I'm getting here is that you are concerned about access to your "data" as a general concept, which is fine if that's your thing - but that doesn't answer my question. What, specifically, do you think might happen with your car's data which is bad? You have said what you're worried about but I still don't know why.
I can't think of any reasons why having Skoda or BYD or anyone (including myself!) know how often I turn my demister on or that I tend to accelerate harder when the stereo is louder or whatever can, in any meaningful, real-world way, affect my life.
We are, of course, assuming that modern cars actually do phone home with these data. I have no idea if that is true. My car connects to my wifi when I get home so I guess it could. I'm not interested enough to sit and sniff packets to see if it does.
Cars can generate location related data from the GPS, mobile data or camera systems. This data can be sent back to the company. The government can take this data and link it to me. I don't want my...
Cars can generate location related data from the GPS, mobile data or camera systems.
This data can be sent back to the company.
The government can take this data and link it to me.
I don't want my own government to know where I drive my car but that's not going to be possible as there's loads of camera's on the high way.
As an EU citizen I certainly don't want a government outside the EU to have this data.
What if the Chinese government sees I'm going to a club every week where people meet to discuss the liberation of Uyghur people? I might end up on a list and the next time I have to visit China for work I'm fucked.
I must add this data thing is a pet peeve of mine. I don't expect this to be the general consensus.
I jump through all these hoops to try to protect my data. I use protonmail instead of something like gmail. I use Nextcloud for data storage instead of something like Dropbox or Google Drive.
I get that these precautions in the end are in vain.
If a foreign government wants my data they'll get it but I don't want to hand it over willingly.
About a year ago Electrek wrote a fiery editorial excoriating American car manufacturers, because the car industry was lobbying the US government to roll back the climate/efficiency/emissions standards. "Making EVs is too haaaaard", said the car industry. "Americans don't want EVs!"
"Shut up, whiners," said Electrek. "You are lobbying for your own destruction. If you don't build cheap, good-quality EVs, China will. If you rest on your laurels and postpone EV development, you are going to cede the entire market to China. The day is coming sooner than you think that selling combustion-engine cars is going to be like selling film cameras. Put down the dinosaur juice and get to work."
I'm starting to think they had a point.
That electrek editorial just kicks ass in every way. Thanks for the link.
In fact, the shortsightedness of the auto industry with respect to emission standards and EVs is the same shortsightedness of any business, media company, or oligarch who supports or helped elect Trump and republicans. The chaos and corruption and nonsense is hurting your business and the world. Why are you so stupidly worrying about short term tax cuts and removal of regulations? That’s the path to the decline of civilization. I guess some people want to rule over ashes.
You don’t need to worry about competition from China if China is tariffed to double the price.
(Insert image macro meme here.)
Some quick math: a typical gas-powered car with a 16 gallon tank that gets 40 MPG and fills at a gas station in about 5 minutes can drive for 600 miles. These EVs can charge enough to travel 250 miles in 5 minutes. If we compare directly in units of "miles of range per minute of refueling", the new EVs stand at 50 miles/minute and typical gas-powered cars at 120 miles/minute. That is genuinely impressive how comparable those are. Both refueling rate and total range are actually becoming competitive with gas-powered cars!
This is without solid-state batteries too. Once those become the norm, EVs will have no genuine downsides compared to ICE vehicles
I found this on BYDs website a few months ago. I haven't shared it with anyone besides my girlfriend yet, but I need everyone to appreciate it.
Introducing BYDs "About BYD" video. An absolute fever dream of an advertisement, crammed with as much AI as they can muster. It's the most ridiculous attempt at an ad I've ever seen.
"He is the dream teammate you can ever wish for"
"He is the inheritor of our heritage"
"Simply, an unforgettable model I've ever seen"
It’s not very pretty, but it doesn’t have to be. The cars have nice specifications, cheap prices and features that you need to pay extra for with other manufacturers. I wouldn’t buy one personally, but I see the broad appeal. I’ve been seeing a lot of them on the streets, especially the last month or two.
To be honest, seems like any other car commercial to me. Just with very bad English dubbing. As long as I can remember many car commercials are these "fever dream of advertising" as you put it. Also, I might be missing it, but I am not seeing much in the way of AI generated imagery?
Interesting tech and it would be great innovation if they work it out.
I was looking into getting a new car recently and was looking into EVs.
I quickly made the decision not to get a Chinese EV as the amount of data EVs (and smarter) cars generate is a lot. I'd rather not be sending that data straight to the Chinese government.
If I would've chosen an EV I would've probably gone for a Skoda. My data would still be in the hands of a megacorp but at least it would be one that's in the EU/NATO.
I did a bunch of digging on car privacy, and outside of Tesla I've come to the conclusion that any information on actual telemetry being sent to car manufacturers is highly speculative. The main question is: how? For Tesla, we know how and why; they do document it.
When your Tesla is connected to Wifi, it will stream back telemetry data, as well as the video from the cameras for their self driving project.
I read through most of the entries here: https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/categories/cars/
For traditional cars, it's mainly peripheral data - they'll keep your address and phone and all that from your initial purchase and registration and sell it to SiriusXM to spam the ever living shit out of you. Apart from that? Just a lot of speculation, because of very loose wording on privacy policies.
If you don't download the app for your car, I'm honestly not sure any serious threat about the data your car's instruments has going to the manufacturer passes Occam's razor.
Genuine question - what is your concern with a Chinese company having this "data"?
As far as I know my Hyundai EV doesn't phone home with telemetry but I don't care if it does. I know for a fact that my previous dinosaur juice car (a 2014 Skoda) generated huge amounts of data because I have seen it doing it via an ODB reader so I'm not sure why you're singling out EVs specifically.
All modern cars are stuffed full of sensors and processing for the data they generate. I have no idea how that data being in the hands of China, or VW or anyone could harm me. It seems like that information is useful to improve the next generation of that company's cars, of course. It's useful for designers to know how their products are being used, but I don't see how that could turn into a problem.
edit: thought about this a bit more and I'm absolutely certain that an EV generates considerably less data than an ICE vehicle. Far fewer moving parts, far fewer sensors = less data.
I cannot speak for @Sunkiller, but personally I care because I want a company to justify why they need it and then be subject to restrictions on what they can do with it. I shouldn't need to opt-out of data collection, any given company should be required to justify and convince me why I should opt-in.
I don't mind that my car generates data, I care that I have control of when and who has access to it. For cars that generate data locally and can only be extracted by ODB reader, that's much easier to control. Once that data collection is linked into the internet, it can go many places and terms and conditions about what is done with it can change at any time. Leaving me with the choice to either get a completely different vehicle if I want to opt out, or more likely decide I have too many other garbage fires to navigate and just accept it.
Regarding China specifically, I have a lot of concerns about what is done with my data in the future. I have no idea what they intend to do with any data they gather, and more importantly, I have no way of preventing them from using that data in the future. If they find a use for it 5 years from now that I object to, I have no ability to rescind that permission and require them to delete it (as a US citizen, EU would have better options). Data protection laws differ by country, and I have even more limited options to advocate for restrictions and enforcement of data privacy laws in China than I do in the US. And the US isn't all that great to begin with.
Five or six years ago I got a call from my insurance company offering a discount on my car insurance if I linked up a specialized ODB reader to my phone and allowed the company to gather data on my driving habits. I said "no, and fuck no", which apparently caught the agent by surprise. They where curious about how adamant I was that I wouldn't allow it. So we had a discussion about how the US laws governing data privacy and control are lacking. I would want way more control over my individual data before I would be comfortable with that kind of data collection, like the ability to restrict it's sale to 3rd parties and delete it at any time. I like to think I educated someone even if they themselves have no ability to change anything.
OK, so what I'm getting here is that you are concerned about access to your "data" as a general concept, which is fine if that's your thing - but that doesn't answer my question. What, specifically, do you think might happen with your car's data which is bad? You have said what you're worried about but I still don't know why.
I can't think of any reasons why having Skoda or BYD or anyone (including myself!) know how often I turn my demister on or that I tend to accelerate harder when the stereo is louder or whatever can, in any meaningful, real-world way, affect my life.
We are, of course, assuming that modern cars actually do phone home with these data. I have no idea if that is true. My car connects to my wifi when I get home so I guess it could. I'm not interested enough to sit and sniff packets to see if it does.
Cars can generate location related data from the GPS, mobile data or camera systems.
This data can be sent back to the company.
The government can take this data and link it to me.
I don't want my own government to know where I drive my car but that's not going to be possible as there's loads of camera's on the high way.
As an EU citizen I certainly don't want a government outside the EU to have this data.
What if the Chinese government sees I'm going to a club every week where people meet to discuss the liberation of Uyghur people? I might end up on a list and the next time I have to visit China for work I'm fucked.
I must add this data thing is a pet peeve of mine. I don't expect this to be the general consensus.
I jump through all these hoops to try to protect my data. I use protonmail instead of something like gmail. I use Nextcloud for data storage instead of something like Dropbox or Google Drive.
I get that these precautions in the end are in vain.
If a foreign government wants my data they'll get it but I don't want to hand it over willingly.