SHANGHAI—The offer sounds like a scam—a new Toyota electric-powered sport-utility vehicle for about $15,000, complete with sunroof and cup holders.
But the Toyota bZ3X is real, and it is actually on sale starting at that price. There is a catch: To buy one, you have to be in China.
Auto executives once dreamed of a world car that could be designed once and sold everywhere. That world has fractured, and nowhere more so than in the two biggest markets, China and the U.S., which together account fornearly half of global vehicle sales.
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A majority of new vehicles sold in China are either fully electric or plug-in hybrids, and a look around the recent auto show in Shanghai showed that local makers have mostly stopped introducing new gasoline-powered models. In the U.S., by contrast, the traditional combustion engine still powers about eight in 10 new vehicles.
Most Chinese buyers these days are buying a local brand. Some, such as BYD, have begun to gain international recognition, but the malls are filled with dealers that offer brands virtually unknown abroad—Zeekr, Lynk & Co, Aion, Aito and many more.
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For a global company such as Toyota to compete in China, it needs a development process different from the one that serves American consumers with gasoline-powered RAV4 SUVs and Tacoma trucks.
Toyota said its bZ3X—the recently introduced model that starts at $15,000—was designed in China by the company’s engineers in the country, who worked with a local joint-venture partner. It is made in Guangzhou with Chinese batteries and driver-assistance software from Momenta, a Chinese leader in that field.
“This couldn’t happen without a Chinese supply chain,” said Masahiko Maeda, head of Toyota’s Asia business. “Unless you localize, it’s out of the question.”
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Almost all of the U.S.-branded vehicles sold in China are Chinese-made, taking advantage of the country’s supply chain. Imports from the U.S. are minuscule as a proportion of the total market.
You can buy the Toyota bZ4X in the US. It's just offered for more than double the price. I don't know what the differences are between the two of them to make such a difference, but this article...
I don't know what the differences are between the two of them to make such a difference, but this article came up when I did a quick search on it and the price on that model just two years ago was much higher in China.
But this article is just a new reminder of how incredibly disappointed at the US auto market. The big companies don't want to compete in the EV realm at all, it seems, and they aren't investing nearly enough and they're falling behind by miles and miles. I guess it's good that there's a tarrif on Chinese vehicles because if the US market had to compete with China fairly our domestic automakers would probably be on life support by the end of the decade. According to this article BYD's ultra-cheap Seagull models, which seem to start at around $10,000, include advanced driving assistance akin to Tesla's Autopilot in it's most basic form.
But more than anything, I'm annoyed at how it seems like every car in the US is a luxury model. The US bZ4X is at what feels like it should be a luxury model. But it's not. It's actually somehow cheap. The average price of a new car in the US is now $49,000. And of course, because all new cars are expensive, it means that used car prices will be going up as well. This is absolutely horrible when you consider that you practically need a car to participate in society across most of the country!
You could also buy it from Subaru if you wanted a Solterra. I agree with you though on pretty much all your points. It really sucks that I can't buy a basic car in America. It's part of what had...
You could also buy it from Subaru if you wanted a Solterra.
I agree with you though on pretty much all your points. It really sucks that I can't buy a basic car in America. It's part of what had me a bit excited (and still trepidatious) for the Slate truck a week or so ago. I don't want or need a luxury car, though I can see the appeal of adding on a few things piecemeal. I just can't imagine spending $50,000 on a car, especially after spending years driving $500 cars.
I haven't driven one, but I did get in one. Or at least, I tried to. In spite of it being fairly large it has a strangely small interior. I'm more than willing to call it the worst just for that. 😜
I haven't driven one, but I did get in one. Or at least, I tried to. In spite of it being fairly large it has a strangely small interior. I'm more than willing to call it the worst just for that. 😜
I mean, they do. They're just ass at it. Every US automaker invested heavily into EVs. Ford with their F-150, GM with the Bolt series. Because it's easier when you're starting. Scaling low margin...
The big companies don't want to compete in the EV realm at all, it seems,
I mean, they do. They're just ass at it. Every US automaker invested heavily into EVs. Ford with their F-150, GM with the Bolt series.
But more than anything, I'm annoyed at how it seems like every car in the US is a luxury model.
Because it's easier when you're starting. Scaling low margin vehicles while spending heavily on R&D is hard.
That's not to say that they're not shit at making EVs, they are, but it's not for lack of trying.
US car companies have always been ass, and they just use legislation and marketing bullshit to impede actual competition. In the 80s, 90s, and early 2000s Japanese brands were clearly far superior...
US car companies have always been ass, and they just use legislation and marketing bullshit to impede actual competition. In the 80s, 90s, and early 2000s Japanese brands were clearly far superior vehicles. We even had the "captive import" phase where they were rebadging Japanese-engineered vehicles.
The US auto industry has been abusing tariffs against European and Japanese brands all the way back to the "Chicken Tax," which is why JP brands and VW now have North American factories.
Then they dropped the CAFE standards and drove vehicle size and weight into the stratosphere, penalizing small and efficient vehicles and promoting fuel inefficient ones conveniently exempted from environmental requirements.
Now China is innovating in the EV market and leading on price. BYD is kicking ass in Australia, which US brands have mostly abandoned.
That "easier when starting" comment might be true... if they were brand new companies where they were risking the entire company on them. But these are giant multinational corporations with...
That "easier when starting" comment might be true... if they were brand new companies where they were risking the entire company on them. But these are giant multinational corporations with extremely talented engineers already on staff and a lot of factories who can and are already making a lot of the parts needed to make a complete automobile. But focusing on EVs is somewhat beyond the point because that $49K figure was for all new cars, roughly 80% of which are ICE. EVs are far more expensive in the US for many of the same reasons that cars in general are more expensive in the US. I'm sure that some degree of tarrifs, labor, and safety compliance are part of it, but I wonder how much of it is just plain old "profit maximization".
They're large companies, but they're optimized for building gas cars. The supply chains for EVs and gas cars are very different. That's why China is able to be a leader in EVs, when they weren't...
They're large companies, but they're optimized for building gas cars. The supply chains for EVs and gas cars are very different. That's why China is able to be a leader in EVs, when they weren't even close to leaders in ICE cars. Chinese companies are great at electric motors and batteries and integrating those together.
but I wonder how much of it is just plain old "profit maximization".
Chinese EV makers are absolutely profit maximizing.
What it says to consumers in Japan like me is that Toyota would rather offer us this same car with a one liter turbo for about $1,600 less… even though selling it here for $15,000 would undercut...
What it says to consumers in Japan like me is that Toyota would rather offer us this same car with a one liter turbo for about $1,600 less… even though selling it here for $15,000 would undercut the economy electric cars offered by its competitors by like $7-8k. Ugh.
https://archive.is/SiiKh
From the article:
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You can buy the Toyota bZ4X in the US. It's just offered for more than double the price.
I don't know what the differences are between the two of them to make such a difference, but this article came up when I did a quick search on it and the price on that model just two years ago was much higher in China.
But this article is just a new reminder of how incredibly disappointed at the US auto market. The big companies don't want to compete in the EV realm at all, it seems, and they aren't investing nearly enough and they're falling behind by miles and miles. I guess it's good that there's a tarrif on Chinese vehicles because if the US market had to compete with China fairly our domestic automakers would probably be on life support by the end of the decade. According to this article BYD's ultra-cheap Seagull models, which seem to start at around $10,000, include advanced driving assistance akin to Tesla's Autopilot in it's most basic form.
But more than anything, I'm annoyed at how it seems like every car in the US is a luxury model. The US bZ4X is at what feels like it should be a luxury model. But it's not. It's actually somehow cheap. The average price of a new car in the US is now $49,000. And of course, because all new cars are expensive, it means that used car prices will be going up as well. This is absolutely horrible when you consider that you practically need a car to participate in society across most of the country!
You could also buy it from Subaru if you wanted a Solterra.
I agree with you though on pretty much all your points. It really sucks that I can't buy a basic car in America. It's part of what had me a bit excited (and still trepidatious) for the Slate truck a week or so ago. I don't want or need a luxury car, though I can see the appeal of adding on a few things piecemeal. I just can't imagine spending $50,000 on a car, especially after spending years driving $500 cars.
They are different cars. The bZ3X is smaller.
Ah, that explains some of it. God, why does Toyota have to have such terrible names for their BEVs?
The bz4x is one of the worst EVs on the market, so don't worry about learning them.
I haven't driven one, but I did get in one. Or at least, I tried to. In spite of it being fairly large it has a strangely small interior. I'm more than willing to call it the worst just for that. 😜
I mean, they do. They're just ass at it. Every US automaker invested heavily into EVs. Ford with their F-150, GM with the Bolt series.
Because it's easier when you're starting. Scaling low margin vehicles while spending heavily on R&D is hard.
That's not to say that they're not shit at making EVs, they are, but it's not for lack of trying.
US car companies have always been ass, and they just use legislation and marketing bullshit to impede actual competition. In the 80s, 90s, and early 2000s Japanese brands were clearly far superior vehicles. We even had the "captive import" phase where they were rebadging Japanese-engineered vehicles.
The US auto industry has been abusing tariffs against European and Japanese brands all the way back to the "Chicken Tax," which is why JP brands and VW now have North American factories.
Then they dropped the CAFE standards and drove vehicle size and weight into the stratosphere, penalizing small and efficient vehicles and promoting fuel inefficient ones conveniently exempted from environmental requirements.
Now China is innovating in the EV market and leading on price. BYD is kicking ass in Australia, which US brands have mostly abandoned.
That "easier when starting" comment might be true... if they were brand new companies where they were risking the entire company on them. But these are giant multinational corporations with extremely talented engineers already on staff and a lot of factories who can and are already making a lot of the parts needed to make a complete automobile. But focusing on EVs is somewhat beyond the point because that $49K figure was for all new cars, roughly 80% of which are ICE. EVs are far more expensive in the US for many of the same reasons that cars in general are more expensive in the US. I'm sure that some degree of tarrifs, labor, and safety compliance are part of it, but I wonder how much of it is just plain old "profit maximization".
They're large companies, but they're optimized for building gas cars. The supply chains for EVs and gas cars are very different. That's why China is able to be a leader in EVs, when they weren't even close to leaders in ICE cars. Chinese companies are great at electric motors and batteries and integrating those together.
Chinese EV makers are absolutely profit maximizing.
So... adaptive cruise control?
What it says to consumers in Japan like me is that Toyota would rather offer us this same car with a one liter turbo for about $1,600 less… even though selling it here for $15,000 would undercut the economy electric cars offered by its competitors by like $7-8k. Ugh.
Give me the option to buy an electric econobox for €15,000. Instead, if I want a decent electric I have to shell out more than double.