Every day I drive the neighborhoods on the west side of San Francisco. I have become intimately familiar with Waymo driving habits. Just yesterday a friend and I remarked on these new behavioral...
Every day I drive the neighborhoods on the west side of San Francisco. I have become intimately familiar with Waymo driving habits.
Just yesterday a friend and I remarked on these new behavioral changes. Not aggressive but assertive. In the tempo of traffic and making quick decisions.
I continue to prefer driving with them on the street instead of humans.
Most humans do not have sufficient training and practice to operate a 2-ton machine which requires constant vigilance and a modicum of patience. That doesn't stop them from doing so, sadly. It's a...
Most humans do not have sufficient training and practice to operate a 2-ton machine which requires constant vigilance and a modicum of patience.
That doesn't stop them from doing so, sadly. It's a good day if I almost die only twice.
Yes most people don’t understand stopping distance and how it depends on the street surface and weather conditions and speed and weight distribution. Also they are easily distracted and many...
Yes most people don’t understand stopping distance and how it depends on the street surface and weather conditions and speed and weight distribution. Also they are easily distracted and many vehicles have a lot of blind spots, and different people have different reaction times and situational awareness.
One thing that’s pretty good is that many newer cars have sensors that can be pretty helpful to check surroundings and imminent problems. Also traction control.
The level of driver education in the US is appalling. We have to learn what's under the hood and point and name parts, to passing a written test about road rules (both rote and intuition is...
The level of driver education in the US is appalling. We have to learn what's under the hood and point and name parts, to passing a written test about road rules (both rote and intuition is tested) and driving for at least 30-40 hours before taking the actual exam and being allowed to drive.
It's no wonder people enjoy having a modicum of road safety in the form of driverless cars.
I had to have way more hours on the road, had to pass a written test and behind the wheel test, but didn't have to do an under the hood test. That was to get a license at 16, years ago. Now the 16...
I had to have way more hours on the road, had to pass a written test and behind the wheel test, but didn't have to do an under the hood test.
That was to get a license at 16, years ago. Now the 16 year olds have even more restrictions on who they can drive with and when.
This varies by state but I don't think your understanding of the process in the US is comprehensive.
Other than knowing about what's under the hood and the written exam being probably shorter and less rigorous, your description is more or less identical to what I was required to do in Ohio. In...
Other than knowing about what's under the hood and the written exam being probably shorter and less rigorous, your description is more or less identical to what I was required to do in Ohio. In fact, I think the requirements for hours driven prior to the test were higher. It certainly is now, as the current rules are 50 hours of driving (including at least 10 hours of night driving). As a minor, I also needed to complete structured driver education courses (including both in-class sessions and practical sessions on the road with an instructor), though at least when I did it, people over 18 didn't have this requirement.
Now, were the requirements a lot less rigorous than it would be here in Germany? Absolutely. It was also much, much cheaper. But since it's more or less impossible to accomplish anything in Ohio without being able to drive, I think it would be pretty tangibly harmful to make it as hard or as expensive to get a license as it is here in Germany. The economic environment and infrastructure are just wildly different, and it's why just making the requirements stricter isn't really a solution.
Germany seemed to think the requirements in Ohio were sufficient to approve exemptions from the written and road tests when converting an Ohio driver's license to a German one -- something that is only the case for some states and is evaluated on a state by state basis due to the differences in difficulty within the US. For instance, someone with a Florida driver's license is only exempt from the road test, and someone with a California license doesn't have any tests waived and essentially has to go through the entire German process from scratch if they're staying in Germany a year or longer and want to legally drive. Presumably Germany is doing some sort of assessment of the requirements for a license in these states to decide who gets what waivers to account for the variation between states.
I just got my license last year and even now I’m left feeling like I accidentally cheated or something. There was a “written” (computer-based) multiple choice test that was easily passed by...
I just got my license last year and even now I’m left feeling like I accidentally cheated or something.
There was a “written” (computer-based) multiple choice test that was easily passed by reviewing an Anki deck for a while to get my permit, somewhere around 6 or so 1hr driving lessons from a local school, and a 20m driving tested administered by another driving school.
No minimum time driven with my permit was required (since I’m in my 30s) and during the test I didn’t even have to prove I can parallel park. The test consisted of driving around town, through a residential area, changing lanes, pulling off to the side of the road, and re-entering traffic. That was it, the guy scored me, I stopped by the DMV with proof, and I was handed a license.
I’ve been able to run around locally and grab groceries and such without issue in the time since but I aim try to go out when the roads are more empty because I still get nervous when they’re even moderately busy, and I’ve not often taken advantage of my newfound ability to go for longer distances (30m+ drives) for the same reason. It’s difficult to have confidence when passing the test is so easy.
I believe the requirements listed were only for people under the age of 18 getting a license. Adults can get a license very quickly by simply taking a road sign test and passing a driving exam. I...
I believe the requirements listed were only for people under the age of 18 getting a license. Adults can get a license very quickly by simply taking a road sign test and passing a driving exam.
I remember delaying getting my license until I was 18 so I didn't have to do all of the requirements.
(This may only apply to my state, I have no idea how the DMV works outside of NC)
Yep that’s exactly the case for my state too. I don’t really like it though. It’s just such a strange feeling that much more trivial things that don’t have potential implications on others’ lives...
Yep that’s exactly the case for my state too. I don’t really like it though. It’s just such a strange feeling that much more trivial things that don’t have potential implications on others’ lives posed more of a challenge than getting a license did.
It has to be easy because you need to be able to drive in most of the country to live. It is incredibly hard to be a non-driver and live a real life almost everywhere except very urban cities. It...
It has to be easy because you need to be able to drive in most of the country to live. It is incredibly hard to be a non-driver and live a real life almost everywhere except very urban cities.
It sucks because it contributes to literally killing thousands of people a year but if it was adequately difficult to meaningfully improve the quality of driver on the road, I don't believe the majority of the population could pass it, at least quickly.
It is when the infrastructure does not exist for you to have access to basic economic opportunities without driving. US transport infrastructure needs to change dramatically first so that people...
It is when the infrastructure does not exist for you to have access to basic economic opportunities without driving. US transport infrastructure needs to change dramatically first so that people who can't legally drive are still able to safely get groceries and go to work on their own -- something that's an impossibility for far too many Americans right now.
The whole point of the comment is that it is because you have to be able to drive to be a member of American society. If you tell an employer you can't drive in an interview you will not get the...
The whole point of the comment is that it is because you have to be able to drive to be a member of American society. If you tell an employer you can't drive in an interview you will not get the job. You can't get your own groceries unless the store is right down the road. You can't go to the doctor's office without spending hours walking or trying to take the bus.
You can suggest whatever you want, but the reality of the situation is that Americans have been forced into a system where they HAVE to be able to drive.
Not much outside of the urban centers you already didn't need to drive in because of decent public transportation. It is not safe to ebike anywhere on the roads in most of the United States. (I'm...
Not much outside of the urban centers you already didn't need to drive in because of decent public transportation. It is not safe to ebike anywhere on the roads in most of the United States.
(I'm an avid biker and own an ebike, I often try to go to places on my bike rather than driving, and I always feel like I'm taking my life in my hands every time)
As a pedestrian and cyclist I prefer them as well. I’ve been saying for years humans are (generally) not qualified to drive cars on streets. I’m happy to see fewer humans driving on our streets.
As a pedestrian and cyclist I prefer them as well. I’ve been saying for years humans are (generally) not qualified to drive cars on streets. I’m happy to see fewer humans driving on our streets.
if Waymo copies the behavior of LA drivers, it's all over. speeding up when seeing a turn signal, super hard on brakes, this need to weave around a person 50 meters from a red light, simply...
if Waymo copies the behavior of LA drivers, it's all over. speeding up when seeing a turn signal, super hard on brakes, this need to weave around a person 50 meters from a red light, simply breaking on the freeway instead of passing their exit. Absolute insaniy.
I once was in a Lyft in LA headed to a party and the driver confessed he took meth so he could drive all night. He missed a turn, and when a friend mentioned we were running a little late for the...
I once was in a Lyft in LA headed to a party and the driver confessed he took meth so he could drive all night. He missed a turn, and when a friend mentioned we were running a little late for the party, the driver decided to do us a favor by speeding to get us there.
I wonder if driverless cars will need region specific behaviors? I assume they can already due this for legal reasons (differing state laws) but what about the "cultural" aspect of how people...
I wonder if driverless cars will need region specific behaviors? I assume they can already due this for legal reasons (differing state laws) but what about the "cultural" aspect of how people drive in a particular area?
I’ve been in two SF Waymo in the last couple days. It was interesting to see it navigate some tough congestion on Market. Interestingly it pulled over to let some traffic pass before merging back...
I’ve been in two SF Waymo in the last couple days. It was interesting to see it navigate some tough congestion on Market. Interestingly it pulled over to let some traffic pass before merging back in. It then wanted to cross three lanes of bumper-to-bumper traffic. It put its blinker on but gave up pretty quick and then went around the block.
Last night we were also in one that wanted to turn right across some busy pedestrian traffic. I was actually quite impressed and how cautious but assertive it was at finding a gap and moving through it confidently but safely.
Waymo’s electric Jaguar SUVs, once known for the rote behavior associated with machine learning, have become more naturalistic and confident. Since launching passenger service in San Francisco a year ago, the vehicles have acclimated to a heavy and diverse mix of traffic: snarled roads, delivery trucks, scooters and cyclists who jockey for space on the road. Within that crowded ecosystem, Waymos now seem less afraid of confrontations. If another driver cuts off a robotaxi these days, the robot might even honk.
“From an evolutionary standpoint, you’re seeing a lot more anticipation and assertiveness from the vehicles,” Riggs told the reporter as their car crested a hill in Noe Valley, the first leg of a rambling journey on a Friday afternoon in May. That day the pair would take three Waymo trips, observing how the cars negotiated sloped streets and busy intersections, weaving around cyclists in the Presidio and making hairy left-hand turns in the Sunset. Throughout these rides, the cars conveyed their human-like qualities in dozens of complex micro-movements. Riggs described these with a term of art: “tentatively evasive” or “minimum risk” maneuvers.
...
“We imagined that it might be kind of a trade-off,” Margines told the Chronicle during a video call. “It wasn’t that at all. Being an assertive driver means that you’re more predictable, that you blend into the environment, that you do things that you expect other humans on the road to do.”
To illustrate the transition, Margines presented several videos of Waymos claiming their right of way in chaotic situations. In one instance, a Waymo glides through an intersection on a rainy night in Austin, Texas. To its right, a sedan emerges from behind a truck, plowing into the Waymo’s path. The Waymo rapidly brakes and swerves left to prevent a crash. Then it course-corrects right, tapping its horn. Chastened, the human in the sedan slows and turns down a side street.
Archive.today and even Wayback Machine are struggling with this site's CAPTCHA, so unfortunately there is no mirror of the text available for those being hit by the paywall. You can listen to a...
Archive.today and even Wayback Machine are struggling with this site's CAPTCHA, so unfortunately there is no mirror of the text available for those being hit by the paywall. You can listen to a reading of the article here though.
I've been dying for Waymo to start allowing us to hail them in my city, which is in the Bay Area, but not SF. I've seen them driving around our city for years now, and they've only gotten better...
I've been dying for Waymo to start allowing us to hail them in my city, which is in the Bay Area, but not SF. I've seen them driving around our city for years now, and they've only gotten better with each passing day of how they drive. Much safer than most other drivers on the road (and I do include myself in this - I hate driving, so I admit I can be very irritable when I'm behind the wheel). There's also two other companies in my city who are working on self-driving cars and wow are those not good at adapting to the way we drive here, and they've been around almost as long as Waymo.
All that to say, I am really appreciating how we keep getting closer to self-driving cars. Now if only we could get closer to better public transportation like more buses and trains and light rails and trolleys everywhere. That would be even better.
Every day I drive the neighborhoods on the west side of San Francisco. I have become intimately familiar with Waymo driving habits.
Just yesterday a friend and I remarked on these new behavioral changes. Not aggressive but assertive. In the tempo of traffic and making quick decisions.
I continue to prefer driving with them on the street instead of humans.
Most humans do not have sufficient training and practice to operate a 2-ton machine which requires constant vigilance and a modicum of patience.
That doesn't stop them from doing so, sadly. It's a good day if I almost die only twice.
Yes most people don’t understand stopping distance and how it depends on the street surface and weather conditions and speed and weight distribution. Also they are easily distracted and many vehicles have a lot of blind spots, and different people have different reaction times and situational awareness.
One thing that’s pretty good is that many newer cars have sensors that can be pretty helpful to check surroundings and imminent problems. Also traction control.
The level of driver education in the US is appalling. We have to learn what's under the hood and point and name parts, to passing a written test about road rules (both rote and intuition is tested) and driving for at least 30-40 hours before taking the actual exam and being allowed to drive.
It's no wonder people enjoy having a modicum of road safety in the form of driverless cars.
I had to have way more hours on the road, had to pass a written test and behind the wheel test, but didn't have to do an under the hood test.
That was to get a license at 16, years ago. Now the 16 year olds have even more restrictions on who they can drive with and when.
This varies by state but I don't think your understanding of the process in the US is comprehensive.
I understand it's not uniformly applied, but the average driver in the US seems to be woefully underprepared.
Other than knowing about what's under the hood and the written exam being probably shorter and less rigorous, your description is more or less identical to what I was required to do in Ohio. In fact, I think the requirements for hours driven prior to the test were higher. It certainly is now, as the current rules are 50 hours of driving (including at least 10 hours of night driving). As a minor, I also needed to complete structured driver education courses (including both in-class sessions and practical sessions on the road with an instructor), though at least when I did it, people over 18 didn't have this requirement.
Now, were the requirements a lot less rigorous than it would be here in Germany? Absolutely. It was also much, much cheaper. But since it's more or less impossible to accomplish anything in Ohio without being able to drive, I think it would be pretty tangibly harmful to make it as hard or as expensive to get a license as it is here in Germany. The economic environment and infrastructure are just wildly different, and it's why just making the requirements stricter isn't really a solution.
Germany seemed to think the requirements in Ohio were sufficient to approve exemptions from the written and road tests when converting an Ohio driver's license to a German one -- something that is only the case for some states and is evaluated on a state by state basis due to the differences in difficulty within the US. For instance, someone with a Florida driver's license is only exempt from the road test, and someone with a California license doesn't have any tests waived and essentially has to go through the entire German process from scratch if they're staying in Germany a year or longer and want to legally drive. Presumably Germany is doing some sort of assessment of the requirements for a license in these states to decide who gets what waivers to account for the variation between states.
I just got my license last year and even now I’m left feeling like I accidentally cheated or something.
There was a “written” (computer-based) multiple choice test that was easily passed by reviewing an Anki deck for a while to get my permit, somewhere around 6 or so 1hr driving lessons from a local school, and a 20m driving tested administered by another driving school.
No minimum time driven with my permit was required (since I’m in my 30s) and during the test I didn’t even have to prove I can parallel park. The test consisted of driving around town, through a residential area, changing lanes, pulling off to the side of the road, and re-entering traffic. That was it, the guy scored me, I stopped by the DMV with proof, and I was handed a license.
I’ve been able to run around locally and grab groceries and such without issue in the time since but I aim try to go out when the roads are more empty because I still get nervous when they’re even moderately busy, and I’ve not often taken advantage of my newfound ability to go for longer distances (30m+ drives) for the same reason. It’s difficult to have confidence when passing the test is so easy.
I believe the requirements listed were only for people under the age of 18 getting a license. Adults can get a license very quickly by simply taking a road sign test and passing a driving exam.
I remember delaying getting my license until I was 18 so I didn't have to do all of the requirements.
(This may only apply to my state, I have no idea how the DMV works outside of NC)
Yep that’s exactly the case for my state too. I don’t really like it though. It’s just such a strange feeling that much more trivial things that don’t have potential implications on others’ lives posed more of a challenge than getting a license did.
It has to be easy because you need to be able to drive in most of the country to live. It is incredibly hard to be a non-driver and live a real life almost everywhere except very urban cities.
It sucks because it contributes to literally killing thousands of people a year but if it was adequately difficult to meaningfully improve the quality of driver on the road, I don't believe the majority of the population could pass it, at least quickly.
I would humbly suggest that's not a bad thing.
It is when the infrastructure does not exist for you to have access to basic economic opportunities without driving. US transport infrastructure needs to change dramatically first so that people who can't legally drive are still able to safely get groceries and go to work on their own -- something that's an impossibility for far too many Americans right now.
The whole point of the comment is that it is because you have to be able to drive to be a member of American society. If you tell an employer you can't drive in an interview you will not get the job. You can't get your own groceries unless the store is right down the road. You can't go to the doctor's office without spending hours walking or trying to take the bus.
You can suggest whatever you want, but the reality of the situation is that Americans have been forced into a system where they HAVE to be able to drive.
I wonder how much electric bikes are changing that.
Not much outside of the urban centers you already didn't need to drive in because of decent public transportation. It is not safe to ebike anywhere on the roads in most of the United States.
(I'm an avid biker and own an ebike, I often try to go to places on my bike rather than driving, and I always feel like I'm taking my life in my hands every time)
Same in California. I remember some of my friends doing the exact same thing as you.
As a pedestrian and cyclist I prefer them as well. I’ve been saying for years humans are (generally) not qualified to drive cars on streets. I’m happy to see fewer humans driving on our streets.
if Waymo copies the behavior of LA drivers, it's all over. speeding up when seeing a turn signal, super hard on brakes, this need to weave around a person 50 meters from a red light, simply breaking on the freeway instead of passing their exit. Absolute insaniy.
I once was in a Lyft in LA headed to a party and the driver confessed he took meth so he could drive all night. He missed a turn, and when a friend mentioned we were running a little late for the party, the driver decided to do us a favor by speeding to get us there.
Waymo please.
Often they’re scrolling TikTok on the side while driving
I wonder if driverless cars will need region specific behaviors? I assume they can already due this for legal reasons (differing state laws) but what about the "cultural" aspect of how people drive in a particular area?
You can also use them to collectively retrain human drivers sharing the roads.
In that case the NJ Turnpike Waymo will set land speed records.
I’ve been in two SF Waymo in the last couple days. It was interesting to see it navigate some tough congestion on Market. Interestingly it pulled over to let some traffic pass before merging back in. It then wanted to cross three lanes of bumper-to-bumper traffic. It put its blinker on but gave up pretty quick and then went around the block.
Last night we were also in one that wanted to turn right across some busy pedestrian traffic. I was actually quite impressed and how cautious but assertive it was at finding a gap and moving through it confidently but safely.
From the article:
...
Archive.today and even Wayback Machine are struggling with this site's CAPTCHA, so unfortunately there is no mirror of the text available for those being hit by the paywall. You can listen to a reading of the article here though.
I've been dying for Waymo to start allowing us to hail them in my city, which is in the Bay Area, but not SF. I've seen them driving around our city for years now, and they've only gotten better with each passing day of how they drive. Much safer than most other drivers on the road (and I do include myself in this - I hate driving, so I admit I can be very irritable when I'm behind the wheel). There's also two other companies in my city who are working on self-driving cars and wow are those not good at adapting to the way we drive here, and they've been around almost as long as Waymo.
All that to say, I am really appreciating how we keep getting closer to self-driving cars. Now if only we could get closer to better public transportation like more buses and trains and light rails and trolleys everywhere. That would be even better.
I'm actually going to be trying one tomorrow while I'm San Fran, I'll report back.