37 votes

Canada agrees to cut tariff on Chinese electric vehicles in return for lower tariffs on Canadian farm products

32 comments

  1. mild_takes
    Link
    Good. If the US is hellbent on destroying the joint auto industry we have then I don't see why we should continue buying cars from the US.

    Good. If the US is hellbent on destroying the joint auto industry we have then I don't see why we should continue buying cars from the US.

    24 votes
  2. skybrian
    Link
    [...]

    BEIJING — Breaking with the United States, Canada has agreed to cut its 100% tariff on Chinese electric cars in return for lower tariffs on Canadian farm products, Prime Minister Mark Carney said Friday.

    Carney made the announcement after two days of meetings with Chinese leaders. He said there would be an initial cap of 49,000 vehicles on Chinese EV exports to Canada, growing to 70,000 over five years. China will reduce its tariff on canola seeds, a major Canadian export, from about 84% to about 15%, he told reporters.

    [...]

    Canada had followed the U.S. in putting tariffs of 100% on EVs from China and 25% on steel and aluminum under former Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, Carney's predecessor.

    12 votes
  3. [5]
    artvandelay
    Link
    I do wonder if Chinese manufacturers would end up building plants in Canada to build its vehicles there too. I'm super curious to see how Chinese automakers will fare in Canada!

    I do wonder if Chinese manufacturers would end up building plants in Canada to build its vehicles there too. I'm super curious to see how Chinese automakers will fare in Canada!

    7 votes
    1. [2]
      dsh
      Link Parent
      I am sure the existing manufacturers would have problems with that - but BYD is setting up shop internationally (in Brazil, in particular I know) and honestly I would welcome that kind of...

      I am sure the existing manufacturers would have problems with that - but BYD is setting up shop internationally (in Brazil, in particular I know) and honestly I would welcome that kind of manufacturing in the country. Toyota and Honda are still big time employers here - I'm not sure what it would take to let a Chinese firm set up shop.

      6 votes
      1. kingofsnake
        Link Parent
        Maybe they could buy that battery plant that tax payers funded and Stellantis abandoned.

        Maybe they could buy that battery plant that tax payers funded and Stellantis abandoned.

        4 votes
    2. [2]
      unkz
      Link Parent
      Is this in reference to the other auto industry thing in Canada today? https://archive.is/5wrrE

      Is this in reference to the other auto industry thing in Canada today?

      https://archive.is/5wrrE

      Canada is planning to reserve preferential access to its domestic auto market for foreign automakers who build vehicles in this country under a new auto policy to be released in February, a senior Canadian official said Saturday.

      The official also said Canada gave advance notice to the United States of its Jan. 16 decision to part with Washington and slash tariffs on Chinese-made electric vehicles that were imposed in tandem with the Americans in 2024.

      3 votes
      1. artvandelay
        Link Parent
        I was actually unaware of this haha. Thanks for linking it!

        I was actually unaware of this haha. Thanks for linking it!

        1 vote
  4. [15]
    Paul26
    Link
    I'd be more likely to make the switch to EV if EVs didn't cost as much as they do. Maybe a bit of competition is good. Of course, I am only assuming these will be cheaper. Perhaps they will be...

    I'd be more likely to make the switch to EV if EVs didn't cost as much as they do. Maybe a bit of competition is good. Of course, I am only assuming these will be cheaper. Perhaps they will be just as expensive. I don't know much about it. All I know I would never buy a Tesla and support that company's owner. F that. And other brads' EV options right now are quite expensive too.

    6 votes
    1. [2]
      stu2b50
      Link Parent
      You can use the Australian market as a barometer for what cars would cost without any tariffs or trade barriers in a developed economy, since Australia essentially just gave up on having a...

      You can use the Australian market as a barometer for what cars would cost without any tariffs or trade barriers in a developed economy, since Australia essentially just gave up on having a automotive industry and more or less let the floodgates open.

      The cheapest BYD offering is a mid-sized Sedan (the "seal") for $23,000 AUD, or $15,000 USD or $21,000 CAD.

      At least in the US, that would be considerably cheaper than other cars in that segment (Corollas and Civics start at $22k, and certainly no EVs are there).

      19 votes
      1. Paul26
        Link Parent
        That's very useful. Didn't know this about Australia. $21,000 CAD is definitely affordable, especially for an EV.

        That's very useful. Didn't know this about Australia.

        $21,000 CAD is definitely affordable, especially for an EV.

        5 votes
    2. [4]
      DaveJarvis
      Link Parent
      https://www.cargurus.ca/ 2019 Chevrolet Bolt EV for $12k.

      https://www.cargurus.ca/

      2019 Chevrolet Bolt EV for $12k.

      5 votes
      1. patience_limited
        Link Parent
        I picked up a 2023 Bolt (high trim level with heated seats!) with 23k miles for $16k USD. Perfect condition, gets 240 miles with an 80% charge, in summer driving. Winter, I'm happy to get 130 mile...

        I picked up a 2023 Bolt (high trim level with heated seats!) with 23k miles for $16k USD. Perfect condition, gets 240 miles with an 80% charge, in summer driving. Winter, I'm happy to get 130 mile range with all the heaters running. It's a fantastic commuter car, though not for long trips given the distance between chargers where I am.

        7 votes
      2. [2]
        chocobean
        Link Parent
        I have an ICE Chevy, would not recommend. :/

        I have an ICE Chevy, would not recommend. :/

        3 votes
        1. DaveJarvis
          Link Parent
          Fair. My point was more about searching for a used EV than any specific non-Tesla brand. Even though the OP wrote, "Canada's used market isn't as great," I suspect that with a bit of legwork...

          I have an ICE Chevy, would not recommend. :/

          Fair. My point was more about searching for a used EV than any specific non-Tesla brand. Even though the OP wrote, "Canada's used market isn't as great," I suspect that with a bit of legwork (searching), there's a solid used EV that's within the person's budget.

          3 votes
    3. [8]
      ButteredToast
      Link Parent
      If in the US, the used market may be worth looking at. Prices are low across the board and there are a few that are pretty nice, like Ford's Mach-E and Nissan's Ariya which can both be found...

      If in the US, the used market may be worth looking at. Prices are low across the board and there are a few that are pretty nice, like Ford's Mach-E and Nissan's Ariya which can both be found lightly used in the $18-30k range depending on trim. For the Ariya in particular I've seen loaded, top of the line dual motor 380 HP AWD models still under factory warranty for $25-28k.

      From what I've gathered Canada's used market isn't as great.

      4 votes
      1. [6]
        Akir
        Link Parent
        I’ll also add to this that EVs have fewer wearable parts for their drivetrain, so while the depreciation is relatively simelar to ICE, the actual wear is slower, which makes used EVs a pretty good...

        I’ll also add to this that EVs have fewer wearable parts for their drivetrain, so while the depreciation is relatively simelar to ICE, the actual wear is slower, which makes used EVs a pretty good value overall.

        3 votes
        1. [5]
          ButteredToast
          Link Parent
          Yeah, unless one's needs explicitly call for an ICE vehicle, I don't think there's anything remotely close in terms of sheer value stateside right now. For something directly comparable to the...

          Yeah, unless one's needs explicitly call for an ICE vehicle, I don't think there's anything remotely close in terms of sheer value stateside right now. For something directly comparable to the Ariya and Mach-E, brand new baseline FWD RAV4s (which are quite stripped down) start where top trim AWD Ariyas top out and 5 year old RAV4s with ~80k miles on them are priced comparably to a baseline 1-3 year old FWD Ariya with a fourth as many miles on it.

          2 votes
          1. [4]
            gary
            (edited )
            Link Parent
            You're comparing a discontinued car (Ariya) that can only be bought used to a brand new RAV4. The Ariya being used and discontinued is going to be cheap for those reasons. When a decade passes,...

            You're comparing a discontinued car (Ariya) that can only be bought used to a brand new RAV4. The Ariya being used and discontinued is going to be cheap for those reasons. When a decade passes, what will repairs to the Ariya look like? The RAV4, on the other hand, is one of the best selling vehicles on the planet and every shop is going to have cheap and abundant parts for it. MSRP for the Ariya was ~$40k for the base trim and up to $56k for the top trim. and the reason it's discontinued is because for that price, it was not good and no one bought it.

            1. [3]
              ButteredToast
              Link Parent
              The Ariya was not discontinued, just put on pause in the US for the 2026 model year due to tariff issues. In other markets (including Canada) the freshly facelifted 2026 model is still being sold....

              The Ariya was not discontinued, just put on pause in the US for the 2026 model year due to tariff issues. In other markets (including Canada) the freshly facelifted 2026 model is still being sold. The 2026 Leaf (which is sold in the US) is also built on the Ariya’s platform. Part availability isn’t likely to be an issue.

              It’s a good car. I drive one and it’s had no problems, and as far as I can tell nearly all major issues the model has had were software bugs that have been patched or are related to faulty OEM 12v lead acid batteries (which is common to many hybrids/EVs and is easy to fix). A lot of reviewers panned it for its laid back, more ICE like acceleration curve (no Tesla style “launches”) but it still does 0-60 in 6 or 7 seconds (depending on powertrain) which is plenty. I like that it tends more towards “just a car, but electric” than many other EVs which try to the iPad on wheels thing. It’s true that its price tag new was too high, though.

              The pricing on the RAV4 is also kind of crazy though, even if its starting price is lower. With its starting price you should at least get a hybrid powertrain (instead of costing $4k+ extra), and 2015 models still go for $15k+, which is way too much for any decade old vehicle. It’s a great car but I can’t square its price premium no matter how good it may be. I’d rather figure out ways to make less popular and more reasonably priced (but not necessarily a lot less reliable) models work instead.

              2 votes
              1. [2]
                gary
                Link Parent
                2026 RAV4s are only in hybrid now and starting at $32k. Sure, used RAV4s are really expensive, but that's because purchasers are baking in the expectation that a RAV4 will run reliably for the...

                2026 RAV4s are only in hybrid now and starting at $32k. Sure, used RAV4s are really expensive, but that's because purchasers are baking in the expectation that a RAV4 will run reliably for the next two decades. But for a new RAV4, around the $30k-$40k range, I cannot make the math work out where an EV saves any money. YMMV, but in Chicago, I think the two are breakeven if calculating costs over a ten year period. In the Bay Area, you're probably losing money by getting an EV.

                EDIT: I'll say, if the Ariya drives like an ICE, that would put it on my radar for a 2027+ model year then!

                2 votes
                1. ButteredToast
                  Link Parent
                  In my part of the PNW, power is considerably cheaper than gas. Registration fees for EVs are higher which somewhat offsets that, but with an EV ongoing costs are almost nothing (basically just...

                  In my part of the PNW, power is considerably cheaper than gas. Registration fees for EVs are higher which somewhat offsets that, but with an EV ongoing costs are almost nothing (basically just wiper fluid and tires, maybe a new cabin air filter and brakes after a very long time) so it’s not too difficult to come out ahead.

                  There’s also the convenience factor. It’s nice to not ever have to think about oil and transmission fluid changes and to always leave the house with a full tank, which probably has some monetary value.

                  1 vote
      2. Paul26
        Link Parent
        I see some Mach-Es around here. Ariya is coming this year by the looks of it, at $60,000 CAD new. The 2026 Nissan Leaf is $50,000 CAD new. This is before tax and all that. Used market has some...

        I see some Mach-Es around here. Ariya is coming this year by the looks of it, at $60,000 CAD new. The 2026 Nissan Leaf is $50,000 CAD new. This is before tax and all that.

        Used market has some options in the $25-30K range for vehicles around 5 years old and around 100,000km or more. Mostly Teslas and some Hyundais.

        1 vote
  5. [2]
    kingofsnake
    Link
    I'd love to buy a Chinese EV if it wasn't introducing us to a whole new dimension of surveillance and market dumping. I'm happy that Carney made the deal -- I love the clear eyed gaul that it...

    I'd love to buy a Chinese EV if it wasn't introducing us to a whole new dimension of surveillance and market dumping.

    I'm happy that Carney made the deal -- I love the clear eyed gaul that it takes to stand up to the Trump administration. That said , it's painting a target on our backs ahead of CUSMA negotiations and were absolutely dependent on that deal going sort of well.

    That said, I'm sure that Carney's team has done the calculation and nothing looks good. Not looking forward to 2026, and that's for Canadians and everybody else.

    6 votes
    1. Akir
      Link Parent
      When existing car brands are tracking sexual activity (yes, really), I wonder how much worse things can get with Chinese cars.

      When existing car brands are tracking sexual activity (yes, really), I wonder how much worse things can get with Chinese cars.

      3 votes
  6. [8]
    skybrian
    Link
    I'm wondering if there would be any way for Americans to go to Canada to buy them.

    I'm wondering if there would be any way for Americans to go to Canada to buy them.

    1 vote
    1. [6]
      artvandelay
      Link Parent
      Unfortunately our import laws would stop that and given our government's hatred of China I think they would implement more laws to stop that. Though I do think if you're a Canadian citizen, you...

      Unfortunately our import laws would stop that and given our government's hatred of China I think they would implement more laws to stop that. Though I do think if you're a Canadian citizen, you could bring the car into the US for 1 year for personal use but you could never sell it and the car must leave the US after a year or it'd be seized.

      8 votes
      1. Narry
        Link Parent
        I’ll just have to stay in Canada with my fancy electric car, then… quel dommage.

        I’ll just have to stay in Canada with my fancy electric car, then… quel dommage.

        4 votes
      2. [4]
        skybrian
        Link Parent
        Are US import laws any better for used foreign cars?

        Are US import laws any better for used foreign cars?

        1 vote
        1. [3]
          kari
          Link Parent
          Nope, 25 years minimum to import a car

          Nope, 25 years minimum to import a car

          3 votes
          1. [2]
            nukeman
            Link Parent
            You can get around that by federalizing a car, but that is a very expensive process. For Canada specifically I believe there are ways to prove it’s compliant with FMVSS (which are very close to...

            You can get around that by federalizing a car, but that is a very expensive process. For Canada specifically I believe there are ways to prove it’s compliant with FMVSS (which are very close to the Canadian standards).

            3 votes
            1. kari
              Link Parent
              Yeah, I just didn't feel like mentioning that since it's not really something a regular person could/should do lol. Admittedly, I did forget about this since the usual cars that people want to...

              You can get around that by federalizing a car, but that is a very expensive process.

              Yeah, I just didn't feel like mentioning that since it's not really something a regular person could/should do lol.

              For Canada specifically I believe there are ways to prove it’s compliant with FMVSS (which are very close to the Canadian standards).

              Admittedly, I did forget about this since the usual cars that people want to import aren't sold in Canada, either (JDM cars, etc.). I think it's even easier going the other way, as in, importing USM cars into Canada is just a bit of paperwork (usually).