11 votes

Hulu Analytics - Why can’t we just buy the service, and not also be part of the product?

Tags: hulu, privacy

So I thought I’d start a little discussion after cancelling my Hulu trial here.

As a devout advertisement-hater and pihole-deploying, block-W10-analytics-at-the-firewall-level neurotic, I went for the more expensive ad-free plan thinking it got me out of the creepy tracking/analytics too. Surprise! It does not- uMatrix lights up like a Christmas tree when you load anything *.hulu.com

I don’t like being the product. I feel being tracked and analyzed etc makes me exactly that.

What do you all think? Is wanting a non-tracked video/tv streaming service too much to ask for?

Edit: Just to help exemplify my point, a little snippet from the Hulu privacy policy:

“For clarity, even if you have not consented to Hulu sharing Viewing Information together with your personal information, we may still share information collected from or about you”

https://www.hulu.com/privacy.txt

6 comments

  1. [6]
    Chris
    Link
    Ok, so I actually work for a streaming site in the ad department. In general, what sites like Hulu know about any one person is low on an ad tech side but that’s not entirely the way the cookie...

    Ok, so I actually work for a streaming site in the ad department. In general, what sites like Hulu know about any one person is low on an ad tech side but that’s not entirely the way the cookie crumbles.

    Let’s break it down. There are 3 angles to look at.

    1. You provided billing information to sign up and probably offered some demographic information also. They know your name, that you’re over 18, your billing address, etc. However, most of that is kept with the payment provider, someone like stripe for example, and anything kept locally is hopefully hashed so it’s not available outside of account use. This info is likely not combined with other demographic info.

    2. They offer ads on their site to third party advertisers based on basic demographic information, but these ads are sold at a cohort level, meaning you and maybe a thousand other people with similar attributes (Male, 25 - 34, in the US). Nothing outside of some basic info will be sold to outside advertisers and it won’t be in the form of raw data, just performance metrics (clicks, views, etc) from your cohort.

    3. DMP’s and IP matching services. Without getting too far down the rabbit hole, these are the semi shady companies that deal in your info. They buy large amounts of user data and then rent the ad networks and advertisers access to it. Most anonymize user info, but this is the black box stuff where you can dial it down to an individual if you’re so inclined.

    Hulu definitely does 1 and 2. They probably do number 3 also. On the plus side, #3 is filled with so many fake users and ad fraud, it’s not nearly as effective as the data brokers would have you believe.

    So is everything a little broken and there should probably be a better, probably ad-free model? Yes.

    But while ad fraud still brings in 5 figure multiples, the tracking will continue to be bogged down by fake users and bots. Really, we should be thanking them for gumming up the works so badly.

    5 votes
    1. [5]
      Bear
      Link Parent
      I realize that it might make you temporarily unemployed (and I'm not insensitive to that), but ads, both online and offline, need to die a horrible death. Formerly ad-supported resources (online,...

      I realize that it might make you temporarily unemployed (and I'm not insensitive to that), but ads, both online and offline, need to die a horrible death.

      Formerly ad-supported resources (online, at least) should either use your device to mine for crypto-currency while you're on the site (with limits, so no pegging resources at 100%, or overheating devices), or they can draw from some kind of yet to be established pre-paid wallet account that has no transaction fees.

      If people want to know about things, they'll go find information on their own. We don't need ads interrupting us.

      3 votes
      1. [4]
        Chris
        Link Parent
        Hah, thanks for keeping my job security in mind. But I actually agree with you. Unfortunately, crypto mining in the browser is wildly unprofitable, even at scale. It sounds like you might be...

        Hah, thanks for keeping my job security in mind. But I actually agree with you. Unfortunately, crypto mining in the browser is wildly unprofitable, even at scale. It sounds like you might be leaning toward a BAT/Brave set up which could work, but you would need to upset Apple, Google and Microsoft to gain market share.

        The alternative is a site that has high enough costs so that it doesn’t need advertising. With that in mind though, internal teams will still want to record user usage of the site to improve it.

        Unfortunately there’s not an easy solution.

        3 votes
        1. [3]
          Bear
          Link Parent
          As far as site operators monitoring for usability improvements, that's fine, assuming that the user has consented/opted in to being tracked for that purpose. Crypto-mining profitability fluctuates...

          As far as site operators monitoring for usability improvements, that's fine, assuming that the user has consented/opted in to being tracked for that purpose.

          Crypto-mining profitability fluctuates depending on the coin. Perhaps it could even run when a user isn't using their device (with limits and permission), with the profits being directly added to the user's prepaid account.

          As far as the prepaid account I referred to, I was thinking like "5 cents to read 1 article on a news site, 3 cents for this, 4 cents for that", etc.

          All very low cost, yet still enough, if people are interested in the content, to be enough to be self-supporting.

          2 votes
          1. [2]
            Chris
            Link Parent
            I agree, I'd love to see ad-supported content phased out, but the margins are massive. At some point, you'll be asking publishers to turn down easy to implement and maintain ad networks in place...

            I agree, I'd love to see ad-supported content phased out, but the margins are massive. At some point, you'll be asking publishers to turn down easy to implement and maintain ad networks in place of something else which will likely have a lower margin. But if user satisfaction increases, it might even out. Either way, that future isn't here yet. I still have a job 😅 and ad money is pouring in while crypto miners are being banned by browsers and frowned upon by the media. Brave barely has a market share and other cost-sharing services are just kind of limping along. I think Medium has a similar payment structure now, how are they doing?

            1 vote
            1. Bear
              Link Parent
              As far Medium, no idea, I don't generally read their content. Haven't seen Brave. As far as ad networks/ads in general, I'm under no illusion that it would be easy.

              As far Medium, no idea, I don't generally read their content. Haven't seen Brave. As far as ad networks/ads in general, I'm under no illusion that it would be easy.