I really, really, really hope this is a return to the Roddenberry Trek of ye olde times instead of another boring, predictable, "Action! Fights! EXPLOSIONS!!!"-fest like the latest movies and...
I really, really, really hope this is a return to the Roddenberry Trek of ye olde times instead of another boring, predictable, "Action! Fights! EXPLOSIONS!!!"-fest like the latest movies and Discovery have turned out to be. Even somewhere between that and the old style in terms of tone would be fine with me, honestly. I am just really sick of over the top action and complete lack of exploration of space, human potential, interpersonal relationships, ethics, philosophy, or politics... which was always at the heart of my love for the original shows. Orville is an okay successor, and I will keep watching it in hopes it continues to evolve and find its feet, but so far it's been a bit too corny for me. I just want another TNG, DS9 or Voyager, damnit! Is that really too much to ask?
p.s. What ever happened to Michael Dorn's attempt to continue TNG with Worf Chronicles? I hope he will be involved in this new series after all his efforts, at the very least!
Did you actually watch Discovery? Not to insinuate that you didn't, I'm genuinely asking. It felt like the perfect blend between big action Trek and old-style Trek to me. There was a LOT of stuff...
Did you actually watch Discovery? Not to insinuate that you didn't, I'm genuinely asking. It felt like the perfect blend between big action Trek and old-style Trek to me. There was a LOT of stuff about ethics and the human condition in there.
Edit: Well, fair enough I guess we have a consensus. Let's hope season 2 and the Picard show are better for everyone.
I watched 'Discovery', with my housemate. We have slightly different preferences about our Star Trek (we both love TNG, but he hates DS9 while I love it), and neither of us liked 'Discovery'. Even...
I watched 'Discovery', with my housemate. We have slightly different preferences about our Star Trek (we both love TNG, but he hates DS9 while I love it), and neither of us liked 'Discovery'. Even for him, who likes his science fiction to come with fun space battles and a lot of pew-pew, he still found 'Discovery' disappointing. As for me... I think it was the worst Trek series ever made. And I dislike 'Enterprise' so much, I've watched only half of it!
The so-called aspects related to ethics and the human condition felt like they were just jammed into the series mainly to avoid the criticism that would have come if they'd been left out. Rather than being the core of most of the stories, they felt like add-on optional extras.
Even with a magical space drive that could take them anywhere in the universe, there was no sense of exploration, either galactic or scientific. In another series, the spore drive would have been a device to take us to strange new worlds. In this series, it was a tool to fight a war. This series was all about the war. The only time it deviated from that was when the USS Discovery ended up in the mirror universe - which is not really an opportunity for exploration or ethical issues!
Do you think the series unnecessarily handicapped itself by going the prequel route? I haven't seen past the first couple episodes, but that did put a damper on my expectations, knowing that...
Do you think the series unnecessarily handicapped itself by going the prequel route? I haven't seen past the first couple episodes, but that did put a damper on my expectations, knowing that nothing original that they discover can ever really pan out to be that important without breaking canon.
Eh true, but so far Trek's 0 for 3 in good prequel series. Of course that's also all there's been in the last 15-20 years, so maybe that's not the only thing going on there.
Eh true, but so far Trek's 0 for 3 in good prequel series. Of course that's also all there's been in the last 15-20 years, so maybe that's not the only thing going on there.
I actually didn't have a problem with Discovery tonally or story wise. In retrospect, I think the biggest problem with Discovery is that they jammed a pair of plot twists in there which didn't...
I actually didn't have a problem with Discovery tonally or story wise. In retrospect, I think the biggest problem with Discovery is that they jammed a pair of plot twists in there which didn't really make any sense and cheapened the development of the two characters at the center of these twists. It felt like the writers did this because it was expected of them, not because it made the story they were telling any more interesting.
And like @cfabbro I really just want to see a return to "Hat Planet of the week" type storytelling. The conventional wisdom is that this kind of storytelling is dead, and I say that's nonsense. You could definitely do a hybrid where a starship is encountering a new space creature, negative space wedgie, or hat planet each week, but there's still a long form story developing in the background and between the crew. Unfortunately, unlike @cfabbro I found The Orville to be entirely uncompelling in this regard... the best episodes were just rehashes of old Trek episodes, and the worst episodes were total snooze-fests.
Don't get me wrong, I generally agree with you. Orville is like TNG but as it would have been written by Seth McFarlane... ;) That is to say it's not very smart but acts like it is, not very...
Unfortunately, unlike @cfabbro I found The Orville to be entirely uncompelling in this regard... the best episodes were just rehashes of old Trek episodes, and the worst episodes were total snooze-fests.
Don't get me wrong, I generally agree with you. Orville is like TNG but as it would have been written by Seth McFarlane... ;) That is to say it's not very smart but acts like it is, not very logical, corny as hell, lacks originality and constantly rehashes material that other people did better already, etc. etc. etc. It has issues for sure, hence why I said I hope it continues to evolve and find its feet. I struggled to continue watching during many episodes too, but at least it's trying to maintain that exuberant optimism for the future of humanity that is such a fundamental part of Roddenberry's vision of Star Trek. The new movies and Discovery are bleak, conflict filled hell-scapes by comparison and I hate that about them immensely. As I said to Algernon elsewhere, "I already have enough dark/depressing scifi in my life (Expanse, Mr. Robot, Altered Carbon, Black Mirror, Westworld, etc), so have no desire to add another bastardization of my beloved Star Trek to that list."
Long story short, The Orville is a bad execution on an OK concept, whereas Discovery is an OK execution on a bad concept. Neither show is good, honestly. They're both OK, but I'd rank Discovery...
Long story short, The Orville is a bad execution on an OK concept, whereas Discovery is an OK execution on a bad concept. Neither show is good, honestly. They're both OK, but I'd rank Discovery slightly above Orville overall.
I watched the first 2 episodes of Discovery and then totally gave up on it based on what I saw. It was extremely dark, depressing, over-the-top action packed and entirely conflict focused. Even...
I watched the first 2 episodes of Discovery and then totally gave up on it based on what I saw. It was extremely dark, depressing, over-the-top action packed and entirely conflict focused. Even DS9, which is arguably the darkest and most conflict driven of all the Trek series was nowhere near that singularly focused.
Should I have given Discovery more of a chance? Does it ever get better? Based on all the reviews I have read/heard/watched by people I trust when it comes to Scifi and Star Trek, I doubt it. The new movies and Discovery may have Star Trek in their name but other than only at the most superficial level they aren't Star Trek in my eyes... just generic space action-adventures with a paper thin Star Trek veneer that completely lack the heart and soul of what truly makes a Star Trek show.
p.s. I did the exact same thing with Enterprise all those years ago, too... I watched the first 2 episodes then noped the hell out. I don't regret that decision either.
There are a couple of minor highlights throughout the first season, but the overall tone doesn't really change from the pilot episodes. You didn't miss much! I'm hoping that the second season will...
Should I have given Discovery more of a chance? Does it ever get better?
There are a couple of minor highlights throughout the first season, but the overall tone doesn't really change from the pilot episodes. You didn't miss much!
I'm hoping that the second season will drop the focus on the war with the Klingons and move in a different direction.
Dangit... I was actually desperately hoping someone would tell me the pilot episodes aren't really representative of the series and I should give the rest of the season a chance! :P If they do...
There are a couple of minor highlights throughout the first season, but the overall tone doesn't really change from the pilot episodes.
Dangit... I was actually desperately hoping someone would tell me the pilot episodes aren't really representative of the series and I should give the rest of the season a chance! :P
I'm hoping that the second season will drop the focus on the war with the Klingons and move in a different direction.
If they do that I might just jump back in to Discovery at some point in the future and try my best to ignore the shortcomings of the first season, but for now I already have enough dark/depressing scifi in my life (Expanse, Mr. Robot, Altered Carbon, Black Mirror, Westworld, etc), so have no desire to add another bastardization of my beloved Star Trek to that list.
The Perfect Mate was a great episode! Of all the TNG ideas they could return to, that would certainly be an unexpected one. I’ve really been hoping for something with the Q and the El-Aurians....
The Perfect Mate was a great episode! Of all the TNG ideas they could return to, that would certainly be an unexpected one. I’ve really been hoping for something with the Q and the El-Aurians. That’s probably the most compelling mystery left open from TNG to me.
I really, really, really hope this is a return to the Roddenberry Trek of ye olde times instead of another boring, predictable, "Action! Fights! EXPLOSIONS!!!"-fest like the latest movies and Discovery have turned out to be. Even somewhere between that and the old style in terms of tone would be fine with me, honestly. I am just really sick of over the top action and complete lack of exploration of space, human potential, interpersonal relationships, ethics, philosophy, or politics... which was always at the heart of my love for the original shows. Orville is an okay successor, and I will keep watching it in hopes it continues to evolve and find its feet, but so far it's been a bit too corny for me. I just want another TNG, DS9 or Voyager, damnit! Is that really too much to ask?
p.s. What ever happened to Michael Dorn's attempt to continue TNG with Worf Chronicles? I hope he will be involved in this new series after all his efforts, at the very least!
Did you actually watch Discovery? Not to insinuate that you didn't, I'm genuinely asking. It felt like the perfect blend between big action Trek and old-style Trek to me. There was a LOT of stuff about ethics and the human condition in there.
Edit: Well, fair enough I guess we have a consensus. Let's hope season 2 and the Picard show are better for everyone.
I watched 'Discovery', with my housemate. We have slightly different preferences about our Star Trek (we both love TNG, but he hates DS9 while I love it), and neither of us liked 'Discovery'. Even for him, who likes his science fiction to come with fun space battles and a lot of pew-pew, he still found 'Discovery' disappointing. As for me... I think it was the worst Trek series ever made. And I dislike 'Enterprise' so much, I've watched only half of it!
The so-called aspects related to ethics and the human condition felt like they were just jammed into the series mainly to avoid the criticism that would have come if they'd been left out. Rather than being the core of most of the stories, they felt like add-on optional extras.
Even with a magical space drive that could take them anywhere in the universe, there was no sense of exploration, either galactic or scientific. In another series, the spore drive would have been a device to take us to strange new worlds. In this series, it was a tool to fight a war. This series was all about the war. The only time it deviated from that was when the USS Discovery ended up in the mirror universe - which is not really an opportunity for exploration or ethical issues!
Do you think the series unnecessarily handicapped itself by going the prequel route? I haven't seen past the first couple episodes, but that did put a damper on my expectations, knowing that nothing original that they discover can ever really pan out to be that important without breaking canon.
Prequel, schmequel. If it was a good series, it wouldn't have mattered when it was set!
Eh true, but so far Trek's 0 for 3 in good prequel series. Of course that's also all there's been in the last 15-20 years, so maybe that's not the only thing going on there.
ENT is one prequel series. DSC is a second prequel series. What's the third?
Kelvin film series. Maybe series isn't quite the right word, but it is a new continuity.
I actually didn't have a problem with Discovery tonally or story wise. In retrospect, I think the biggest problem with Discovery is that they jammed a pair of plot twists in there which didn't really make any sense and cheapened the development of the two characters at the center of these twists. It felt like the writers did this because it was expected of them, not because it made the story they were telling any more interesting.
And like @cfabbro I really just want to see a return to "Hat Planet of the week" type storytelling. The conventional wisdom is that this kind of storytelling is dead, and I say that's nonsense. You could definitely do a hybrid where a starship is encountering a new space creature, negative space wedgie, or hat planet each week, but there's still a long form story developing in the background and between the crew. Unfortunately, unlike @cfabbro I found The Orville to be entirely uncompelling in this regard... the best episodes were just rehashes of old Trek episodes, and the worst episodes were total snooze-fests.
Don't get me wrong, I generally agree with you. Orville is like TNG but as it would have been written by Seth McFarlane... ;) That is to say it's not very smart but acts like it is, not very logical, corny as hell, lacks originality and constantly rehashes material that other people did better already, etc. etc. etc. It has issues for sure, hence why I said I hope it continues to evolve and find its feet. I struggled to continue watching during many episodes too, but at least it's trying to maintain that exuberant optimism for the future of humanity that is such a fundamental part of Roddenberry's vision of Star Trek. The new movies and Discovery are bleak, conflict filled hell-scapes by comparison and I hate that about them immensely. As I said to Algernon elsewhere, "I already have enough dark/depressing scifi in my life (Expanse, Mr. Robot, Altered Carbon, Black Mirror, Westworld, etc), so have no desire to add another bastardization of my beloved Star Trek to that list."
Long story short, The Orville is a bad execution on an OK concept, whereas Discovery is an OK execution on a bad concept. Neither show is good, honestly. They're both OK, but I'd rank Discovery slightly above Orville overall.
I watched the first 2 episodes of Discovery and then totally gave up on it based on what I saw. It was extremely dark, depressing, over-the-top action packed and entirely conflict focused. Even DS9, which is arguably the darkest and most conflict driven of all the Trek series was nowhere near that singularly focused.
Should I have given Discovery more of a chance? Does it ever get better? Based on all the reviews I have read/heard/watched by people I trust when it comes to Scifi and Star Trek, I doubt it. The new movies and Discovery may have Star Trek in their name but other than only at the most superficial level they aren't Star Trek in my eyes... just generic space action-adventures with a paper thin Star Trek veneer that completely lack the heart and soul of what truly makes a Star Trek show.
p.s. I did the exact same thing with Enterprise all those years ago, too... I watched the first 2 episodes then noped the hell out. I don't regret that decision either.
There are a couple of minor highlights throughout the first season, but the overall tone doesn't really change from the pilot episodes. You didn't miss much!
I'm hoping that the second season will drop the focus on the war with the Klingons and move in a different direction.
Dangit... I was actually desperately hoping someone would tell me the pilot episodes aren't really representative of the series and I should give the rest of the season a chance! :P
If they do that I might just jump back in to Discovery at some point in the future and try my best to ignore the shortcomings of the first season, but for now I already have enough dark/depressing scifi in my life (Expanse, Mr. Robot, Altered Carbon, Black Mirror, Westworld, etc), so have no desire to add another bastardization of my beloved Star Trek to that list.
The Perfect Mate was a great episode! Of all the TNG ideas they could return to, that would certainly be an unexpected one. I’ve really been hoping for something with the Q and the El-Aurians. That’s probably the most compelling mystery left open from TNG to me.