... I can wait. In fact, I prefer to wait. I will say, if they choose to adapt a good story, it may not be terrible. GoT was a good show for a few seasons, based on the strength of the source...
“We are thrilled to welcome master storytellers David Benioff and Dan Weiss to Netflix,” said Netflix chief content officer Ted Sarandos in a statement. “They are a creative force and have delighted audiences worldwide with their epic storytelling. We can’t wait to see what their imaginations will bring to our members.”
...
I can wait. In fact, I prefer to wait.
I will say, if they choose to adapt a good story, it may not be terrible. GoT was a good show for a few seasons, based on the strength of the source material. It really went off the rails when the showrunners had to write their own material.
Yup, they're a lot like the multi-country power adapters I carry around: Master adapters, but terrible at coming up with a good ending to Game of Thrones on their own.
Yup, they're a lot like the multi-country power adapters I carry around: Master adapters, but terrible at coming up with a good ending to Game of Thrones on their own.
To be fair, GRRM might be terrible at coming up with good endings for the series too... we really don't know yet, and might never will if he keeps delaying the way he has. :/ GRRM at least has the...
To be fair, GRRM might be terrible at coming up with good endings for the series too... we really don't know yet, and might never will if he keeps delaying the way he has. :/
GRRM at least has the advantage of seeing how poorly the HBO ending was received though, so hopefully he can learn something from it.
The thing is, it's not the ending in and of itself that was bad, it's just that it was so obviously rushed. For the last season all I had to do was close my eyes and imagine, between every scene,...
The thing is, it's not the ending in and of itself that was bad, it's just that it was so obviously rushed.
For the last season all I had to do was close my eyes and imagine, between every scene, a full GOT episode about how we got from A to B. "Hey I'm just missing a bunch of context". And then things started making sense.
I really hope we one day understand wtf happened for D&D to want to rush things like this at the last minute.
Eh, I dunno about that. Unlike most people, my complaints with the ending are not to do with minor plot holes, missed opportunities to tie up loose ends, or lack of character development, which...
Eh, I dunno about that. Unlike most people, my complaints with the ending are not to do with minor plot holes, missed opportunities to tie up loose ends, or lack of character development, which could have been smoothed over with more episodes. I don't even have any issues with what Daenerys wound up doing, since she was clearly a bit of a psycho before that moment. The majority of the issues I had with the ending stem from the writers being way too conservative with regards to the characters fates, to the point that it was completely immersion breaking. For a series that prided itself on killing off characters, the plot armor was remarkably thick in the final season, all things considered, and as a result many of the character's decisions and their outcomes made absolutely no sense. E.g. Drogon and Greyworm both allowing Jon to live. And even had HBO given them a few more episodes or even another season, I still don't see that changing much.
HBO offered them more episodes and more money before the last season and they refused. Benioff had an arbitrary number of hours he thought the TV show should be (70-something) and so turned down...
HBO offered them more episodes and more money before the last season and they refused. Benioff had an arbitrary number of hours he thought the TV show should be (70-something) and so turned down HBOs offers to the detriment of the story.
That said i think it was pretty clear from a couple seasons earlier that D&D were mentally checked out and were just doing their contract obligations until they could move onto other projects so i don't think the extra time and money would have done much to improve the later seasons.
Ah, I didn't know that, but it honestly explains so much. And if that is the case, it's really a shame they basically stopped caring when so many other people did care and were so heavily invested...
Ah, I didn't know that, but it honestly explains so much. And if that is the case, it's really a shame they basically stopped caring when so many other people did care and were so heavily invested in the show (including the actors, I'm sure). It could have been so much better if they had actually given a crap or someone who did had taken over, but c'est la vie, I guess.
Yeah no you're right the plot armor sucked :| And I remember an article saying that a lot more death was planned in E3 but D&D ruled against it because they wanted some fan-service BS in the...
Yeah no you're right the plot armor sucked :| And I remember an article saying that a lot more death was planned in E3 but D&D ruled against it because they wanted some fan-service BS in the following eps.
The idea that two professional writers would intentionally bomb their breakout success in order to emotionally manipulate the original author is... beyond ridiculous. Is this satire? The idea that...
The idea that two professional writers would intentionally bomb their breakout success in order to emotionally manipulate the original author is... beyond ridiculous. Is this satire? The idea that some writers may be competent at writing when the basic structure, plot and character beats have been written by a better writer, but worse at coming up with original material, is depressingly plausible.
It’s not an excuse, because bad writing is bad writing. (There may be cases where the financial backers of a project override creative decisions to the point where writers are unable to produce a good end product, but I’ve seen nothing to suggest that is the case here. In fact, from what I’ve heard HBO wanted a longer final season, but the showrunners insisted on compressing it because they wanted to move on to Star Wars.) But it is a plausible explanation, and a data point that can be used to predict future performance.
I think if anything poisoned their working relationship, it's that D&D just straight up stopped adapting huge portions of the books after the Red Wedding: no Lady Stoneheart, no Tysha reveal, none...
Officially, GRRM could not appear in a cameo for S8 because he was busy. No, obviously he wanted no part in ruining his own legacy. So if we want to speculate about wtf happened, then I believe D&D poisoned their relationship with GRRM over petty disagreements. I bet GRRM repeatedly reminded them that they could not suckle at the creative teat forever, and that by the fifth season they were on their own. Then they overstepped that clearly defined boundary, pissing off GRRM, who, solely on principle of not spoiling ASOIAF, could not continue writing episodes and working with them as much.
I think if anything poisoned their working relationship, it's that D&D just straight up stopped adapting huge portions of the books after the Red Wedding: no Lady Stoneheart, no Tysha reveal, none of Tyrion's descent, and that's just stuff from Storm of Swords. They probably left out more of Feast and Dance than they adapted. If I were Martin, I couldn't help but take that as a slight. Moreover, I think their disregard of available source material means that any more books Martin would theoretically have released before the end of the show would have just been ignored as well. It seems like after four seasons of overwhelming praise, they got high on their own supply and thought they could do it better, forgetting what made the show good in the first place, and the ending we got is the result.
This is such a ridiculous and nonsensical viewpoint that it's the first time I've been reminded of r/conspiracy while on Tildes. Are you joking here? Because I cannot reasonably find any good...
The undeniably poor writing we notice when the show outpaces the books, like when Tyrion's IQ inexplicably drops 75 points based on dialogue alone, may have actually been a veiled threat to GRRM. "Come back and save us—if you don't, we can accidentally inflict everyone's favorite character with an off-screen and unexplained traumatic brain injury." The writing was so bad that I believe it was intentional.
This is such a ridiculous and nonsensical viewpoint that it's the first time I've been reminded of r/conspiracy while on Tildes. Are you joking here? Because I cannot reasonably find any good explanation for why you'd genuinely believe this. The show was terrible, sure, but it's nothing more than typical (or atypical) incompetence. I'd like some actual evidence of malice, please.
They also have something to prove now. They just took the most epic backlash of all time right in the teeth, hiding from social media they used to lap up, even bailing out of comic-con the day of...
They also have something to prove now. They just took the most epic backlash of all time right in the teeth, hiding from social media they used to lap up, even bailing out of comic-con the day of and leaving the actors holding the bag. That's admission of guilt in my book.
I still expect it to suck, but then again, lately I am expecting everything on film to suck.
Oh it's not done yet? I heard the series goes downhill after Lies and didn't bother seeing it through. I assumed it was just meant to be a trilogy. Is there an overarching plot to it though or are...
Oh it's not done yet? I heard the series goes downhill after Lies and didn't bother seeing it through. I assumed it was just meant to be a trilogy.
Is there an overarching plot to it though or are they just one-off adventure stories? If the latter, it might not matter if they run out of material to adapt. The big issue with GoT was that they had a destination and the journey suffered as they tried to force the characters to take stupid pills in order to get there within an artificially constrained timeline. If there isn't a destination and they're just able to meander through it might not be a problem.
The author has been dealing with mental health issues which heavily delayed the series, but recently reported to have finished book 4 and it’s set to release next year. Personally, I found book 2...
The author has been dealing with mental health issues which heavily delayed the series, but recently reported to have finished book 4 and it’s set to release next year.
Personally, I found book 2 to be kind of meh, so I didn’t bother reading #3. But I would love to see a limited miniseries based on the first book. Something like Altered Carbon, but fantasy.
There are currently three books but it's planned to be seven books long. At the rate they've been releasing, I doubt they'll make it there... The 2nd book is pretty bleh, but I enjoyed the 3rd...
There are currently three books but it's planned to be seven books long. At the rate they've been releasing, I doubt they'll make it there...
The 2nd book is pretty bleh, but I enjoyed the 3rd book. There is an overarching plot, but each book focuses on an individual adventure. Kind of like how a sitcom (like The Office or Brooklyn 99) has self-contained story each episode, but over the span of a season there are gradual shifts in relationships.
Oh Jesus I don't think any Song of Ice and Fire reader can see that sentence without having their palms start sweating! That's a shame. D&D are pretty dudely themselves so I think they'd actually...
There are currently three books but it's planned to be seven books long
Oh Jesus I don't think any Song of Ice and Fire reader can see that sentence without having their palms start sweating!
That's a shame. D&D are pretty dudely themselves so I think they'd actually be good to adapt a fairly dude-heavy crew and story like the Gentleman Bastards; even if I'd prefer to expand the realm of fantasy/sci-fi adaptations to bring in more work from outside the traditional types of characters and stories.
In contrast I wouldn't let them get within 300,000 miles of something like The Broken Earth trilogy, but I'd love to see such a series to get adapted.
I like all 3 books. Lies is great in that it defines a whole world and cast and really grips you. I guess you could say that 2 and 3 rest on their laurels more and just exist in the world that you...
I like all 3 books. Lies is great in that it defines a whole world and cast and really grips you. I guess you could say that 2 and 3 rest on their laurels more and just exist in the world that you already know. But I wouldn’t call that bad. I read them all years ago and think of the 3 as one long story, not a good book and 2 mediocre books.
...
I can wait. In fact, I prefer to wait.
I will say, if they choose to adapt a good story, it may not be terrible. GoT was a good show for a few seasons, based on the strength of the source material. It really went off the rails when the showrunners had to write their own material.
Yup, they're a lot like the multi-country power adapters I carry around: Master adapters, but terrible at coming up with a good ending to Game of Thrones on their own.
To be fair, GRRM might be terrible at coming up with good endings for the series too... we really don't know yet, and might never will if he keeps delaying the way he has. :/
GRRM at least has the advantage of seeing how poorly the HBO ending was received though, so hopefully he can learn something from it.
The thing is, it's not the ending in and of itself that was bad, it's just that it was so obviously rushed.
For the last season all I had to do was close my eyes and imagine, between every scene, a full GOT episode about how we got from A to B. "Hey I'm just missing a bunch of context". And then things started making sense.
I really hope we one day understand wtf happened for D&D to want to rush things like this at the last minute.
Eh, I dunno about that. Unlike most people, my complaints with the ending are not to do with minor plot holes, missed opportunities to tie up loose ends, or lack of character development, which could have been smoothed over with more episodes. I don't even have any issues with what Daenerys wound up doing, since she was clearly a bit of a psycho before that moment. The majority of the issues I had with the ending stem from the writers being way too conservative with regards to the characters fates, to the point that it was completely immersion breaking. For a series that prided itself on killing off characters, the plot armor was remarkably thick in the final season, all things considered, and as a result many of the character's decisions and their outcomes made absolutely no sense. E.g. Drogon and Greyworm both allowing Jon to live. And even had HBO given them a few more episodes or even another season, I still don't see that changing much.
HBO offered them more episodes and more money before the last season and they refused. Benioff had an arbitrary number of hours he thought the TV show should be (70-something) and so turned down HBOs offers to the detriment of the story.
That said i think it was pretty clear from a couple seasons earlier that D&D were mentally checked out and were just doing their contract obligations until they could move onto other projects so i don't think the extra time and money would have done much to improve the later seasons.
Ah, I didn't know that, but it honestly explains so much. And if that is the case, it's really a shame they basically stopped caring when so many other people did care and were so heavily invested in the show (including the actors, I'm sure). It could have been so much better if they had actually given a crap or someone who did had taken over, but c'est la vie, I guess.
Yeah no you're right the plot armor sucked :| And I remember an article saying that a lot more death was planned in E3 but D&D ruled against it because they wanted some fan-service BS in the following eps.
The idea that two professional writers would intentionally bomb their breakout success in order to emotionally manipulate the original author is... beyond ridiculous. Is this satire? The idea that some writers may be competent at writing when the basic structure, plot and character beats have been written by a better writer, but worse at coming up with original material, is depressingly plausible.
It’s not an excuse, because bad writing is bad writing. (There may be cases where the financial backers of a project override creative decisions to the point where writers are unable to produce a good end product, but I’ve seen nothing to suggest that is the case here. In fact, from what I’ve heard HBO wanted a longer final season, but the showrunners insisted on compressing it because they wanted to move on to Star Wars.) But it is a plausible explanation, and a data point that can be used to predict future performance.
I think if anything poisoned their working relationship, it's that D&D just straight up stopped adapting huge portions of the books after the Red Wedding: no Lady Stoneheart, no Tysha reveal, none of Tyrion's descent, and that's just stuff from Storm of Swords. They probably left out more of Feast and Dance than they adapted. If I were Martin, I couldn't help but take that as a slight. Moreover, I think their disregard of available source material means that any more books Martin would theoretically have released before the end of the show would have just been ignored as well. It seems like after four seasons of overwhelming praise, they got high on their own supply and thought they could do it better, forgetting what made the show good in the first place, and the ending we got is the result.
This is such a ridiculous and nonsensical viewpoint that it's the first time I've been reminded of r/conspiracy while on Tildes. Are you joking here? Because I cannot reasonably find any good explanation for why you'd genuinely believe this. The show was terrible, sure, but it's nothing more than typical (or atypical) incompetence. I'd like some actual evidence of malice, please.
They also have something to prove now. They just took the most epic backlash of all time right in the teeth, hiding from social media they used to lap up, even bailing out of comic-con the day of and leaving the actors holding the bag. That's admission of guilt in my book.
I still expect it to suck, but then again, lately I am expecting everything on film to suck.
I would like to see a "City of Thieves" mini series based on the novel by Benioff.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_Thieves_(novel)
A Lies of Locke Lamora might be fun. When the guys had actual material to adapt they did a decent job.
I agree, but they'll run into the same exact problem they did with GoT, which is that the Gentleman Bastards series won't be finished anytime soon.
Oh it's not done yet? I heard the series goes downhill after Lies and didn't bother seeing it through. I assumed it was just meant to be a trilogy.
Is there an overarching plot to it though or are they just one-off adventure stories? If the latter, it might not matter if they run out of material to adapt. The big issue with GoT was that they had a destination and the journey suffered as they tried to force the characters to take stupid pills in order to get there within an artificially constrained timeline. If there isn't a destination and they're just able to meander through it might not be a problem.
The author has been dealing with mental health issues which heavily delayed the series, but recently reported to have finished book 4 and it’s set to release next year.
Personally, I found book 2 to be kind of meh, so I didn’t bother reading #3. But I would love to see a limited miniseries based on the first book. Something like Altered Carbon, but fantasy.
There are currently three books but it's planned to be seven books long. At the rate they've been releasing, I doubt they'll make it there...
The 2nd book is pretty bleh, but I enjoyed the 3rd book. There is an overarching plot, but each book focuses on an individual adventure. Kind of like how a sitcom (like The Office or Brooklyn 99) has self-contained story each episode, but over the span of a season there are gradual shifts in relationships.
Oh Jesus I don't think any Song of Ice and Fire reader can see that sentence without having their palms start sweating!
That's a shame. D&D are pretty dudely themselves so I think they'd actually be good to adapt a fairly dude-heavy crew and story like the Gentleman Bastards; even if I'd prefer to expand the realm of fantasy/sci-fi adaptations to bring in more work from outside the traditional types of characters and stories.
In contrast I wouldn't let them get within 300,000 miles of something like The Broken Earth trilogy, but I'd love to see such a series to get adapted.
I like all 3 books. Lies is great in that it defines a whole world and cast and really grips you. I guess you could say that 2 and 3 rest on their laurels more and just exist in the world that you already know. But I wouldn’t call that bad. I read them all years ago and think of the 3 as one long story, not a good book and 2 mediocre books.
Wait a tick, aren't they doing the Star Wars right now? Or does exclusivity mean something completely different in this context?
Get ready to have your expectations subverted!!!
slowly goes to make popcorn
I await the storm of comments.
But seriously, I don’t know if this is good or bad for Netflix.